Here is the latest conversation I had with money manager Andrew Horowitz…. new insights for anyone who invests in anything. Horowitz has a unique take on Herman Cain.
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Man I missed DHUnplugged. No Agenda is great and all but this is the podcast that I look forward to the most.
The 999 plan would replace
* the current income tax
* corporate tax
* payroll tax (employer and employee)
* capital gains tax and
* estate tax
It is easy to understand why the lawyers, accountants, economists, and lobbyists are opposed to the plan.
By making the tax codes a lot simpler, individuals and businesses would spend a lot less on maintaining tax records; filing taxes; hiring lawyers, accountants and tax-deferral experts; and lobbying Congress.
999 plan does address many tax evading practices while totally simplifying filing. That is why last 9 is not Nein. People from gray economy side who evade income tax will at least pay something via sales tax on mass market goods and that adds up.
Solution for avoiding future reckless spending and tax hikes could be used to make sure all 9’s remain 9’s: tax system must be reformed via Constitutional amendment stipulating that this is tax system and rates forever and ever (changeable as any Constitutional item is – very hard) and that no other source of revenue can be implemented on the population. Add to that balanced budget clause and we would be sailing to prosperity.
I’m encouraged to see that nobody but retards is in favor of the 999 ultra-regressive tax idea.
retards *are, as retard does :p
so those of us without income would pay more taxes?
The current tax program encourages redistribution of assets, subsidizes favored industries, and controls personal behavior
As tax-paying folks finagle and connive to find ways around the tax code, the government responds by propagating new rules, new interpretations of the code, and new taxes in a never-ending chase.
We end up creating ever-more arcane tax codes that do a poor job of achieving any of their original mandates.
Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is designed to be “static revenue neutral,” which means that if people don’t change what they do under his plan, total tax revenues will be the same as they are under our current tax code.
But with the boost it would give to economic growth, it would bring in even more revenue than expected.
I’ve been trying to warn people for years about any kind of national sales tax. Especially that scam called the “fair” tax.
If you want bigger and more intrusive government, then go ahead and cheer for another layer of taxation. After all, conservatives and liberals aren’t happy unless someone is taking their money and telling them what to do.
But if you think an IRS audit is intrusive now, just wait until you have to prove you paid national sales tax on everything inside your home. And remember, in their courts you are guilty until you can prove otherwise.
A bigger and more intrusive government?
First of all, that is not a criticism of the 9-9-9 plan. It is a criticism of politicians. If you don’t want the rates raised, don’t elect politicians who will raise them.
Even if we repealed the 16th Amendment and eliminated the income tax, as some demand in return for establishing a consumption tax, politicians could raise that rate too.
What’s far more important here is the fact that the very simple, flat-rate structure of the 9-9-9 plan, which allows no deductions, loopholes or exemptions (with the exception of charitable contributions for the income tax), is a far more growth-friendly tax structure than the mangled mess of rates, taxes, exemptions and ill-conceived incentives we have today.
It virtually eliminates the massive compliance costs of the current tax code, and it actually restrains the size of government.
“It virtually eliminates the massive compliance costs of the current tax code, and it actually restrains the size of government.”
Really…? How does that work? Sounds to me that the IRS and treasury will be re-purposed to track how you spend every penny on top of what you earn and how you earn it. But hey, as long as it’s “simple” and flat, who cares if it’s robbing you of what little privacy you have left. After all, only criminals and terrorists want privacy.
First of all, that is not a criticism of the 9-9-9 plan. It is a criticism of politicians. If you don’t want the rates raised, don’t elect politicians who will raise them.
LOL, please. How do you plan to stop rusted on ‘Rats from voting for their beloved spendthrift-wastrel ‘Rat politicians?
These are people who literally believe that the money you earn is communal property, and that they possess some exclusive moral right to divvy it up according to the fashionable leftist ideology du jour.
Just giving them control of the public purse has proved to be disastrous. Can you imagine giving them the power to vote themselves even more of your money in even more new ways? Tax increases under 9-9-9 would start off with a temporary half a percent here for disaster relief, and half a percent there for emergency healthcare for underprivileged toddlers — always things to which only a “heartless” person could object. Pretty soon it would be 25-25-25 (-25 for those in pet constituencies)
Just giving them control of the public purse has proved to be disastrous. Can you imagine giving them the power to vote themselves even more of your money in even more new ways?
Guess what. They have that power today.
“Sounds to me that the IRS and treasury will be re-purposed to track how you spend every penny on top of what you earn and how you earn it.”
Nope. A lot of the IRS will be unemployed with the 999 plan.
“Nope. A lot of the IRS will be unemployed with the 999 plan.”
Could I interest you in a used car? Perhaps a bag of magic beans? Come on, I need to sell you something since it’s obvious you’re ready to buy anything.
And if we don’t do something, we will all be trying to sell magic beans.
The Federal Govt spent 32% more in 2011 than in 2007 when the Democrats took over Congress.
Most Americans probably wish their income, the value of their home, or the value of their retirement funds, had gone up even 10 percent during that span — or simply hadn’t dropped.
Could it be that a shortage of “revenues” wasn’t really the problem after all?
And you would give them another revenue stream, right out of our pockets.
THINK before you give whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
I wonder how many people actually listened to this show to hear what Horowitz had to say about 999.
since when does that matters :p
I was surprised he didn’t really pick up on the fact that there is both a VAT and a sales tax.
We’ll get to Horowitz when we’re done taking pot shots at each other.
A nine percent sales tax mightl only benefit people in states like Illinois, who pay as high as 11.5% sales tax (with added surtaxes). And would really screw people in states like Delaware and New Hampshire, who pay 0% sales tax. But in any case, this 999 plan sounds way too coincidentally timed to the rising unemployment rate. More people out of work? No problem for the US Gov. revenue, just create a 9% sales tax for everyone to pay. And likely your respective state will still add its own sales tax onto that. Something Herman Cain failed to mention.
This tax plan fix, also reminds me of the medical coverage fix, that Obama wanted passed. How everyone must have medical insurance, whether they can afford it or not. Whether they want it or not. But I’m sure the Quakers and American Indians will be exempt. And perhaps Catholic Nuns too. In any case, it’s more about keeping the medical profession from going broke, in the bad economy. Than seeing that everyone else gets a health plan.
If they pay for coverage for the poor. It’s still just subsidizing the medical industry.
John and Andrew really missed it, I think.
A) 9% business tax does not equate to 35% tax now. 9% is on Revenue, not profit.
Per Cain’s site:
9% Business Flat Tax
o Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports.
o Empowerment Zones will offer deductions for the payroll of those employed in the zone
B) It is not simply 9-9-9 and equally applied. Empowerment Zones start the playing field unlevel, and HUD sets the zones today. The fine print matters.
C) The 9% consumption tax is only Phase 1. It would be replaced by an admitted 23% National Sales Tax, known as the Phase 2 – Fair Tax. This is in addition to all state and local sales taxes already in place as the Feds cannot force states to remove them. How does 30% “consumption” tax level sound?
However, he would remove the 9% Income tax AND the 9% business tax to be replaced with the 23% National Sales Tax. Sure. Just like that other tax we used to pay before it was removed… Oh, I can’t think of one.
Cain is the Perry of three weeks ago. He is riding a wave to the top, but will be brought down because he lacks details. Even the details he publishes on his site, he doesn’t speak to. Have you heard him mention the empowerment zone exception to each tax? Or, the transition timing? Or the 23% Phase 2 tax?
John and Andrew should have at least reviewed the 999 site before covering it.
Fish