What about the toilet paper? Stuff a wad into someone’s mouth and they could suffocate! In other words, what on a plane can’t be turned into a weapon and should be banned?
Air Worthiness Directive 2011-04-09 (PDF). That’s the name of a new FAA rule that might kill you one day. It dictates that emergency oxygen masks should be removed from lavatories in every commercial plane in the United States.
The new rule was just made public by the FAA after keeping it secret for a long time in the name of “national security”. It was communicated to airlines previous to this date and it has already been enacted in 6,000 airplanes across the US commercial fleet as of Friday, March 4. But neither the government nor any of these airlines have notified passengers about these changes.
According to an official FAA note, it and “other federal agencies” (TSA anyone?) think oxygen generators in lavatories are a “security risk”. According to these agencies, terrorists may try to use this equipment to take airplanes down, turning the oxygen canisters into explosive devices.
Perhaps more problematic is the fact that, according to this report, the FAA has been trying to tip toe over this issue. The entry was absent from the FAA’s website because, according to them, “they wanted to make the changes before the wrong people realized a potential vulnerability.”
By taking out the generators, passengers who are in a lavatory during a rapid decompression event will not be able to use the oxygen masks. They will have to run out of the lavatory—in the middle of a confusing emergency situation—back to their seats.
Facts and Values: factually, can this generator be McGuyver’ed to take down an airplane? If so, them my value says take it out. Its the known risk to all compared to the maybe risk to one.
I also agree with the secrecy: why let the McGuyver terrorists know of this “bomb” already on the aircraft that they can use? So–fix the aircraft then let everyone know.
Change the facts and my opinion my change–but not my values.
OTOH–Muslim McGuyvers haven’t shown themselves very adept at things mechanical. Maybe an alternative would have been a “Restroom Energency Oxygen Mask Instrusion Alert” light installed in the cockpit and when activated the manliest hostess could go arrest the malfeasant?
Now, where are my glasses?
#1 Not that easy to do with your bare hands which is about all they let you fly with.
Do-ill==obviously you are no McGuyver. Might you be a Muslim? or just a terrorist supporter?
So, what have we got here? A can of oxygen? I thought there was an oxygen “generator” that powered those overhead masks. but there could well be a different system for the bathrooms–who knows beside do-ill and who besides do-ill knows that you need a tool of some sort that can’t be fashioned out of melted plastic spoons?
No, no McGuyver skills at all.
Clearly more body scanners are needed http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2011/03/tsa-box-cutters-breach/145947/1
Can’t these canisters be redesigned so they are tamper-proof? That would be the logic requirement.
#5 Maybe, but cost goes up exponentially.
Military procurement is rife with this. Must be able to win against a, b, c, d, e, f, and g (both upper and lower case versions). Design features must support item awesomeness. Pricetag: priceless.
I would think they could try to ruggedize the door that protects the canister.
More generally, I think this works cost/benefit.
Airline travel is safe, even for the sleaziest regionals. Most of the danger in flying is when you are near takeoff or landing, which is when you can’t go to the bathroom.
Cruising in an airplane is probably about as safe as the safest thing you do on an ordinary day.
Providing some jerkoff wannabe martyr with flammables in an unwatched area is a very bad idea.
I vote don’t spend too long in the bathroom on a flight and this will NEVER effect you.
To my knowledge, such Oxygen Generators are a chemical device, that is heated electrically, to produce breathable oxygen from a stable compound.
doewll is right. You’d need some tools to get at, remove and monkey with these devices. And some expertise at how to use them as a weapon. But they’re only about the size of a 20 oz coke can. And don’t explode, but get very hot (500 degrees F.)
Assuming that terrorist could get tools, plastic bags, and some flammable liquids aboard. They could make up a bundle, with the generator inside. And then trigger it off, and suffer dying like everyone else. So it’s only a suicide weapon.
The real problem is an economic one. These airplanes were designed with a minimum consideration of security, and anti-tampering. So rather than redesign, and refit all the aircraft to better protect these devices from unauthorized access. The FAA merely did the Airlines a huge favor (as usual) and allowed their removal. The generators themselves sound rather flaky, in design. Some older ones have caused fires on planes, just from rough treatment. They have a pin that get pulled out, when the attached masks are yanked downward. An internal charge starts the oxygen bearing compound to exothermically release the gas.
I think popular movies always lead us to believe there was an oxygen supply line, running the length of the cabin. And that the cockpit engineer could turn it off, after an emergency. Hollywood Lies!
Some years back, such generators were carried as cargo, on a passenger plane, in violation of safety regs. Saving ValuJet Airlines some transportation costs, via their maintenance contractor. But a fire occurred as a result of a shock, triggering one of the canisters off. Setting fire to the rest of the canisters and other cargo hold contents (tires). Flight 592 crashed and was lost in the swamps of Florida.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592
Other smaller fire have occurred, accidentally, from mistreatment of these devices. But rather than making them much safer. Or at least inaccessible to restroom occupants. The FAA packed the carriers’ plan to secretly remove them. And charged the Stews with the job of rescuing people from the johns, with their portable oxygen supplies.
Take the train. No extra oxygen needed.
Oops. Scratch that first paragraph. I typed that before I read up on the generators. And forgot to delete it. Popular movie fiction is to blame. They can’t be “turned off” as most dramas claim.
Move the generator out of the crapper and into an area where tampering would be noticed? Like, just leave the tube going to the crapper.
maybe just put some other emergency breathing apparatus 🙂
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ef_M4U2nwus/TLt9vEYdXzI/AAAAAAAAFA8/R14SMlsrA1s/s1600/patent-image034534534.bmp
More Americans die from dog bites every year than from terrorist attacks.
Human beings are astonishingly stupid…
One can hurl a crying baby and cause a nasty head injury. They should be banned.
Actually, the vacuum is more dangerous:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OtOO3BRpqoE
#11, #12 – omg! what if the terrorists bring a dog or crying baby on the plane? They could kill us all!
I’m all for banning hurling.
So I’m wondering…out of all the times the oxy bags have been deployed, how many times were they used in the toilets? My guess is very few times.
I for one am disgusted by the thought of banning baby hurling. You progressives have gone to far in banning the infant fling. My wife and I have spent many a day whiling away the hours tossing our infant. Experience eventually taught us that catching the baby worked best but god damned if that little gaffer didn’t grow to be quite the little tosser himself.
So I have to ask… What is the survival rate of being in an airplane bathroom during an event that would require the oxygen mask to fall down. Last time I checked (I don’t end to enter airplane bathrooms unless I must) they didn’t have seat belts.
FAA kept it under wraps until it was a done deal !!! “To protect the public” ? or to KEEP THEM IN THE DARK ??? I wonder why ANYONE FLIES ANYMORE !!!
Why have oxygen generators at all?
An airliner that depressurizes at 30,000 ft is going to descend below 15,000 very quickly, certainly before any permanent damage is done – and probably before a majority of passengers have actually managed to get their oxygen masks on.
People might black out but so what? They will come round as the plane descends. Given the number of flights lost, in the air and on the ground, why risk having them?
What’s really the problem here?
Limit the size of aircraft (and therefore the destructive force on impact,) to something smaller and there is no problem.
We’ll just have to have far more airports to cover the shorter-haul flights, prompting:
the construction industry,
lots of airport construction job creation,
lots of flight system maintenance job creation,
lots of flight servicing job creation,
lots of flight attendant job creation,
lots of pilot job creation.
Fuck the TSA trying to protect the flying behemoths, we want lots of short-haul airports, (about one thousand miles apart) in a grid over the surface of the nation.
Slow down and stop letting the airlines sell you this bull shit that bigger is better as far as planes go.
Someone should be able to sue the FAA if this gets someone killed.
Hey, I once needed oxygen in the bathroom in releasing an unusually large turd.
Rush I could make the obvious certain poster joke, but I am a better person than that.
Clearly the only rational answer is to ground all airplanes. Then TSA could really make headway at railway stations, athletic events and shopping malls.
Anyone who has ever followed Rush Limbaugh into a washroom understands why this is a bad idea.
Surely this will make all these aircraft fail the airworthiness test of other countries.
It is actually a plot to stop you leaving the USA. Pretty similar to what the Soviets did and the North Koreans still do. If none of your aircraft can leave your borders, then all you slaves will have to stay where you are told!
The dang pilots have their own independent air supply, that’s not a chemically generated system. So why can’t the Toilets have a similar supply, activated only in emergencies? And not subject to local tampering. They’ve got water lines going to these closets. And electricity for lighting. Hmmm. Maybe those could be misused as a weapon, somehow. Better replace it all with moist towelettes, chemical toilets and glow sticks. Now, everyone is totally safe, until the Incredible Hulk cuts on in the john. HULK SMASH!!
I just heard a roomer (that I started) that in order to make Amtrak more competitive with the airlines, all light bulbs will be removed from their trains’ toilets. It has nothing to do with terrorism, on trains. The Gov. just wants something equally stupid done to train toilets. And they haven’t any oxygen masks to remove.
Ya know, I’ve always wondered what accompanies the mask and tubing. Is that a plastic vomit bag, attached to the mask?
And talk about hurling babies. Diaper poop is about the most toxic substance on earth. Someone could threaten to hurl a bag of that stuff, and most people would comply with their demands.