In September, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates gave a speech imploring universities to end their bans and let the military back on campus. Senator Scott Brown, Republican of Massachusetts was more pointedly critical, asking how Harvard can support the Dream Act, which would open a path to legal status for undocumented students, yet close the door on “young people who want to serve their country.”
Some argue that there ought to be a law holding colleges accountable if they refuse to support the military.
It turns out there is such a law…
The answer is that in all my research on the subject, I have found no universities that ban R.O.T.C., nor has the military initiated action against any institution for banning the program. We have grown accustomed to saying there are bans only because it fits with the assumption that certain colleges are unfriendly to the military.
So this is all a charade then?
That is interesting. Its not “ironic.” Coincidence doesn’t get it either. “Both parties relying on the stupidity of the American Public” is pretty close but too long. “Appealing to different special interest groups” is also too long.
I’ll bet the Germans have a 35 letter word for this.
Shaddenstumpingrupenfuhrer?
Most media releases are done by uneducated individuals that do not check the subject matter of their story. It makes it easy for disinformation campaigns by the Government, the Military, Political Parties, etc.. Caveat empour, it is up to the reader to check out ridiculous stories such as the above and others like them.
These political spinners run with whatever misinformation that fits. Supreme Court Justice Kagen was reamed for this same subject although she went out of her way to find a method to keep military recruiters on Harvard’s campus even when she was required to ban them for their gay discrimination.
But think of how convenient this lie is! It allows the military to play the part of the poor, put upon victim, and it lets the universities keep up a front of opposition to the many foolish wars that their student bodies hate! It fuels burning victim-patriotism, and it keeps the Ivory towers from being burnt down by their pissed off students!
Win win!
I used to work IT support at a university near me, and three of my supported departments were the Navy, Air Force and Army ROTC.
I’ve never worked with a finer group of individuals who cared more about our country in my entire life. I miss working with them every day, and whenever I’m on campus, I’m sure to stop on by, though all of the officers I knew have since left, since they are on 3-year rotations. Fortunately, most of the support staff is still there.
It’s better to have the U.S. military recruiting than the Chinese State Security Bureau or the FSB.
Say Mac Guy==how did these recruiters evidence their caring more for their/our country? Was it more than the devotion a used car salesman shows towards moving that unsellable clunker off his lot?
You do know recruiters would be fired if they told the candidates anything near the truth? Or did you not listen critically to their mindless jingoistic BS?
Military anything has not been a welcome presence at any campus since a little debacle at Kent State, what with the poorly trained “gummint troops” killing four stoonts.
Lord knows they’ve covered themselves with glory, or at least “Ol’ Glory,” since Bush is alleged to have shown up.
Psst. fvantom, its “caveat emptor” and it means “let the buyer beware”
I’m juss sayin’
Psst. fvantom, I thing your reaching for “Democracy Requires An Informed Populace.”
Psst. fvantom, Sorry make that “you’re”
During the Vietnam era, I volunteered for the Army because I had a low draft number, and high ASVAP scores. The recruiter was straight with me, and I got through the Army without being in a war zone.
silly..this is just news filler.
since the lowering of standards, they moved all those r.o.t.c. shacks next to our finest prisons..
Might be one or two in next to ICE locations as well..
-s
“since the lowering of standards”
Seriously? Since when do you think that standards were “high” for the military? Do you know how George Washington recruited men to his militia? He asked prisoners “so do you want to rot in jail or go fight a war?” How many prisoners do you think were drafted during the World Wars?
These days the standards have been artificially heightened, specifically so guys (presumably, like you) can brag about how elite our armed forces are.
But I digress…
To the post itself – This is actually kind of a misdirection. The schools and the Army aren’t lying, per se (believe me, I was in law school when the hullabaloo with Army recruiting went down). ROTC is still allowed on campus, because as noted, it would otherwise be against federal funding laws. However, military recruiters (non-ROTC is my understanding) are not allowed to proselytize within the campus proper.
Leastwise, that’s the way it was in my school (Northeastern U. in Boston).
As a former ROTC student and retired Air Force officer, I’m still amazed that people talk about the military without ever having any direct experience.
It is not illegal for a University to exclude or cancel ROTC programs. It’s no different than if a school closes a department. By cancelling an ROTC program, the school would be missing out on a fair number of students with full academic scholarships — not a smart move especially for the elite (expensive) schools.
The recruiters that are being banned are for the job fairs held on campus. This is illegal due to equal access because of Federal funding / grants. These recruiters are looking for college graduates with particular skills — Engineers, Lawyers, Linguists, etc. These aren’t the same as the local military recruiters we’ve all heard about, that are going after high school students. These recruiters tend to twist or stretch the truth, but don’t break the law (just like a good lawyer).
If you don’t like “Don’t ask, don’t tell” or the ban on gays, please don’t blame the military. Congress passes the laws the military must follow. We may not agree with the laws passed, but we salute smartly and do our best.
The military is an old boys club yelling “unit cohesion” every time any change is suggested. Congress is cowed by the Military Brass saying their effectiveness will be compromised if women or blacks or open gays are allowed in. As now, its the Sup Ct that forces integration or a leader that overcomes the stupidity of Military Leadership, prerogatives, or druthers.
We just salute: is BS. Nice toady.
Quite an article. “This shift stems from a disagreement in the late 1960s between the Ivy League colleges and the military. Should R.O.T.C. have to comply with the host college’s rules for academic course content and professor qualifications? R.O.T.C. said no, colleges said yes, and the two had to agree to disagree. R.O.T.C. then walked away from Northeastern campuses.”
Also from the article was that the military went all the way to the Supreme Court to ensure access for military recruiters to college campuses, but “I have found no universities that ban R.O.T.C., nor has the military initiated action against any institution for banning the program.”
The short author bio at the end of the article was also informative. “Diane H. Mazur, a professor of law at the University of Florida and a former Air Force officer, is the legal co-director of the Palm Center at the University of California at Santa Barbara and the author of “A More Perfect Military.” “
Get the military out of the educational institutions’ campuses. Let the military set up shop on their own facilities at their own expense.
Leeches are not wanted.
GIT!
#7 Bobbo, obviously you haven’t a clue what ROTC actually is, as it is not a bunch of recruiters, and has nothing to do with the recruiters who come on campus during career fairs.
The Reserve Officer Training Program (of which I was once a candidate thereof) provides basic military training similar to what is provided at the military academies and various other military-oriented post-secondary schools (such as Texas A&M, VMI, etc.). It provides training in military history, customs and tactics, in addition to basic parade drilling (learning how to march, how to properly wear your uniform, eyc.).
ROTC provides scholarships as do many other professions. ROTC instructors are generally military personnel who have either shown a knack for inspiring young men and women to excel in a military career, or they are at the tail end of their own military career and want to work and retire close to their home of record.
These are the people who train significantly more officers than all of the service academies combined. They are very dedicated.
As to the recruiters who come onto campus, these are usually enlisted men who have sales quotas just like used car salesmen, who are looking to fill the slots in the next basic training class. You do have to watch yourself with these guys, as they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear to get you to sign on the dotted line. These guys were the ones kicked off campuses during the Viet Nam war era, as they were looking for cannon fodder among those who were trying to get an education.
Nevertheless, most of the enlisted recruiters are themselves dedicated patriots who have already served multiple tours of duty and are stuck in a job they hate but needing to get their tickets punched and their efficiency ratings high, so some of them resort to less scrupulous tactics.
IN the last 30-40 years many campuses have discontinued ROTC programs for a variety of reasons, most often lack of instructors and/or applicants. The military pays the salary of instructors and funds the majority of the program, so it’s not money per se, but lack of interest by the student body. Many programs that were spread out among different colleges or campuses have been consolidated into fewer campuses. When I was going to school, Army and Air Force ROTC were at my university campus, but Navy ROTC was 150 miles away at another campus. AFROTC had nicer uniforms.
To the original poster comment: ” is it all a cheraide”
To put simply: Yes.
I am a collage grad and and an army vet. also in jrotc in hight school. Most of the military is for” Shock and awe”
Aka.. hollywood…
#19–Mr Windows==I never mentioned ROTC nor addressed it tangentially. You have therefor no idea what I may think of rotc.
Nice knee jerk reaction though—go get them tiger!====attttaaaaccckkk.
#14 said:
ha!
-you’ve obviously mistaken me for someone who doesn’t know the difference between fantasy and reality. (or propaganda)
-s
(Turn off your TV)
First rule of politics: Never let facts get in the way of a good story.
Remember when ACORN was “busted” by a couple posing as a pimp/prostitute wanting help to establish a brothel? Bobbie Jendal, Gov. of LA, got on his high horse and claimed he would assure that no money would go to Acorn. The lie was that LA never funded Acorn. The state never paid Acorn. So how could they take away what was never given in the first place?
It would seem these dude can’t use Google: http://jewishpolicycenter.org/1637/left-against-military-on-campus
They have a moderately long list.
Found this one as well:
http://bearcreekledger.com/2004/12/at-ivy-league-schools-rotc-long-banned.html