So if we can’t record radio anymore, how much longer will they let us record TV?!
The latest firmware update for the Zen Vision:M sneaks in a “feature update” that’s sure to tick off most of its users who decided upon buying the device due to its FM tuning and recording capability. The update disables recording, so even though you can listen to FM radio on your Zen Vision:M, you can’t record it anymore.
The removal of the FM recording feature is a result of potential violation of copyright. Queries to tech support were replied to by saying that the “FM recording feature is removed due to licensing issues.”
Is this the first domino to fall in a series that could probably wipe out the existence of big name products that record media such as DVD recorders, hard disk drive-based PVRs, and even cassette recorders, if anyone still buys those?
The move by Creative is pure stupid.
It is in fact legal to record stuff from the radio and keep it for your own use. So removing the Zen devices ability to record FM Radio is what?
It is not fair to people who bought a Zen and every single one of them should get their money back, even if they have never recorded an FM radio signal ever.
Cell phones are crippled as to being used by other services. DSL modems and other devices are restricted to use on certain services. Satelite TV dish services lock subscribers from even receiving free to air transmissions. I could go on for a long while with this list of intentionally crippled devices. Why cripple another? Shame on the folks at Creative for not being creative.
In a word … Yes. Haven’t you heard? Home Taping is Killing Music. And funding terrorists.
Creative whimped out, favoring the lawyers over the consumers.
Recording FM for personal use is still perfectly legal, as far as I’ve ever heard.
Yeah I was pretty amazed about this when I heard it on TwiT. This is ridiculous, because recording FM transmitions for personal listening is perfectly legal, it goes back to the whole VCR fiasco. As long as its just for you, you’re fine. Removing a feature in an “update” is pretty sneaky.
Legal or no, how could recording FM be construed as pirating, given the relatively poor sound quality compared to, say, ripping CD’s. What would be the harm in simply codifying the concept of analog recording being legit and pure digital being controlled? Same concept with television. Look at the difference in VHS quality vs DVD, even in analog form. No mistaking attempted pirating there. The whole thing is ludicrous.
Creative is now on my “Sony” list. And I don’t even own one of these things!
Is the RIAA behind this?!
Gosh, I don’t know… would they do something like this? 🙂
First GooTube, and now Creative….
Is it easier to upgrade the firmware than fight a court battle – even if you might eventually win – because once you start, you know you would have to be ready to slog along all the way to a date with the Supremes..?
I noticed this firmware update for my Zen Nano, and in fairness it was printed quite clearly on the download page that this update would disable FM recording.
I’ve never actually used the feature, but I’m not going to voluntarily make my mp3 player less potentially useful… that would be stupid. 🙂
Something similar happened with the “iFM” from Griffin Technology. The first versions (in white) had the FM recording capability but the newer black versions do not.
Actually, Creative may have been amenable. A major problem with wannabe iPods is that they have too many features. The Zen may improve by simplifying. If Microsoft were savvy, Zune would lose a thing or two before coming to market. (Not video content, since it doesn’t have any.)
As someone who is qualified to address legal issues, I find the claims that recording off radio is definitely legal naive. Once the satellite radio cases go to trial (or are settled) we will know the answer.
“I find the claims that recording off radio is definitely legal naive.”
Is there a statute or case that holds that recording radio for personal use infringes copyright? No. Thus it is legal. Whether it will remain legal into the future is highly doubtful.
“I find the claims that recording off radio is definitely legal naive.”
Talk about naive. As it stands the fair use issue is settled for now.
If it changes in the near future, is that a good direction or a bad one? Transforming what is acceptable by law now into what is not ok legaly is not what Creative is doing. By use not law is what the Creative Company is doing. By usage, people will get accustomed to the idiom of not being able to do anything. Creative is just helping erode our rights and technology.
What is naive is accepting that in advance of the legal change, a surrender of use and rights “just because”, not by law. I find the whole area of intentionally crippled technology insulting, anti-democratic and anti-capitalist.
I would like to add that it also will not work, if I want to record FM radio I can do so right off the headphone jack of the Creative Zen players. There has to be a better solution to the digital rights management issue than ruining everything because it will not work. If you can hear or see content it can be copied easy enough. There is no scheme that will work to defeat that.
In fact this is a era change, a sea change. The old time oral storytellers could not protect their status and profit from the printing press, later radio and TV.
Should TV and radio and printing presses have been crippled so they could not tell the story of the Iliad or the Tortoise and the Hare ? Perhaps automobiles should have been crippled so that blacksmiths could retain their economic position. The media companies had just better get with the program and find new ways of making a profit.
Lawyers can not keep them alive nor can corrupt politicians. Their products took an economic hit when digital technology came along and that is that.
The central miracle of digital technology is being able to copy. It is like the miracle of the loaves and the fishes in the New Testament. Feeding the multitudes from a couple of loaves and fishes. Perhaps the fish mongers association should have arrested Jesus for giving away fish and bread. Is that the side that we are going to come down on, the side of the Pontius Pilates? So what is naive?
Am I incorrect here?
All the comments here are interesting to me, but then, I hate corporations with mucho gusto because I blame them for much of the illness in this country. I blanket blame them as well, for no other reason than that not one of the largest corporations will face off against any of the rest if the only the reason to do so is based upon non-profit motivations, you know like ensuring the rest of the world doesn’t suffer the effects of 500 tons of mercury (est.) dumped into the oceans and general environment each year. I’d like to believe that things will eventually work themselves out but, not real optimistic when we elect people who make laws that eliminate the basic functions of our Constitution just to protect their lying asses and we elected these criminals because we actually believed the big bad wolf was coming to eat our souls and the word liberal became synonimous with Osama . Did no one remember: ..” I won’t come in your mouth and…”the check is in the mail “.. ??? I don’t need mouthwash and I never take checks so, it’s kinda funny to see the 53% of the American populace running around looking like a bunch of “Got milk ?” boobs still looking for their checks. You guys bought into it and you’ll keep on lovin’ it..right ??? Hang on…I think Jerry Foulwell and Rush is just a hit away Limbaugh are about to inject the country with more truth about liberals…I will sell you some vasoline if it will help ? I think Foley me over on the net has some leftover too.
I still vote ,even in the face of apathy and depression…what else is there…Rush won’t share the good stuff and I’m to old for Foley. Damm me for a Liberal and damm me for being proud of it.
#11, Am I incorrect here?
Comment by tom j — 10/21/2006 @ 4:53 pm
yes.
You can not compare long dead civilizations with modern societies. Right up to the turn of the 150 yrs ago, most musicians, composers, and writers were sponsored by rich benefactors or already well off. Even Shakespeare didn’t make much money in his lifetime.
Because of the technical difficulties, intellectual piracy has only become a problem in the past 25 years. Before that time, it was, and is still today, called plagiarism.
Second, you can not call this anti-democratic or anti-capitalist because that only shows your ignorance of the meaning of those words. You have the democratic right to vote for or against a candidate who supports this policy. That is democracy. You may buy a Creative Zen or one of the competitors that have this feature at your option. That is capitalism.
Third, if you want to do anything you reasonable believe to be legal, go for it. How well that will work as a defense I can’t tell you. But if your lawyer asks to be paid up front then don’t hold out too much hope.
What about the Betamax decision?
In a word: boicott.
Not only Creative, but all makers with similar stupid decisions
14 …Betamax decision
A key point: “…so long as the technology is capable of substantial non-infringing uses.”
What “substantial” non-infringing uses does an FM recorder have? 🙂
More importantly, as I asked in post #6 Is it easier to upgrade the firmware than fight a court battle – even if you might eventually win – because once you start, you know you would have to be ready to slog along all the way to a date with the Supremes..?
Your link to the Betamax case shows that:
Sony lost in District court in 1977
won on appeal to the 9th Circuit court in 1981
had that Appeals court ruling upheld by the Supreme court in 1984.
It would appear that Creative is not willing to spend 7-years in court for FM recording capability…
11 If you can hear or see content it can be copied easy enough. There is no scheme that will work to defeat that.
Setting-up a camcorder in front of your TV will probably always work, but they are working on blocking every other current option. 🙁
Removing the FM recording is a silly move, but probably not as silly as leaving it. I like my Vision:M quite a bit and I occasionally use the FM recording. I’ll upgrade my firmware when they offer features I’m interested in and I’ll lose my recording then. My point is that I do like creative and I love their player, so… I’d hate to see them spend bookoo money on a lawsuit that will be settled eventually anyway… I’d rather they spend the money on better features and new and better players, so while I dislike the RIAA for the bullying they try to do, I can’t give Creative any grief for covering their butt.
All in all, the Creative Zen Vision:M is the right player for me right now, I wouldn’t tough an iPod if you gave me one for free, but that’s me… I like the iPod for other folks though as most iPod users aren’t saavy enought to convert videos and the like for a non-iPod player and would end up asking me how or to do it for them.