I wish people would quit calling it a spill.
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# 18 BmoreBadBoy said, on June 12th, 2010 at 7:19 pm edit
@bubbaray
I agree w/ every word you said. (As señor bobbo knows all too well, I’m very pro liberty. I was being heavily sarcastic in the post you quoted.) So, I only have 1 question for you: if government has failed in all the areas you mentioned, what makes you think they can successfully resolve this whole oil spill situation? Or do anything at all to ameliorate it?
There have been some solutions proposed by other corps, even inventive people, that have a good chance of accelerating the cleanup process. They are standing by awaiting word from the government to go ahead. One involves the use of hay and / or hair to absorb the oil. Another uses non-toxic aerated compounds to bring the oil to the surface where it can be vacuumed up. In both cases, they can’t go ahead because the EPA hasn’t approved the procedures. Well, my suggestion is for the govt to get out of the darned way with their “EPA regulations” and help test and assist those with possible solutions to the problem. Looks to me like the govt is the problem.
Maybe Obomba is waiting until October so he can initiate a cleanup and look like a hero for the November elections. He sure is quick to hand out blame for the delayed cleanup while it looks like the govt is the culprit in the delay.
#31 BubbaRay
Brilliant solution! Mop up millions of gallons of crude oil using hair. Brilliant!
So lets all go out and shave our heads today for the benefit of America!
Where was that recommended? Let me guess, it was either Rush or Glenn. They also recommended pouring barley on the oil in hopes that it will ferment (like beer) and ‘rise to the surface so it can be mopped up’.
Hey dummy… we are talking about millions upon millions of gallons of crude oil floating randomly in deep waters, traveling with the currents…. it’s not a clog in your sink!
Bubba–yea, there is a potential solution in there==you tube is full of them.
I think it “would be nice” if the gov had a website dedicated to this disaster where they act as a resource center/clearing house for all this stuff.
Why not an ongoing review of all the proposed solutions and an experts reaction to it?
Straw and hair may be in limited supply or provide downstream problems but lets hear WHY the government is allowing such approaches to go forward.
I still like the idea of pumping the polluted water thru a filter separating the oil from the water.
I’ve heard it reported what with the increased oil flows now that BP is going to burn-off the oil because its retaining ships are “full.” All the newsclips I see show precious few people or ships actually working on anything while stating more recovery ships would make the area too crowded.
All sounds like to me NO ONE is operating in EMERGENCY MODE. Just allowing any sub-optimal circumstance to be a no go.
Yes, I “suspect” our government is not kicking any ass, including its own. This is a disaster with little hope to stop damages that will last for years – but – the amelioration is falling way short of what it should be.
Get the freaking oil out of the water asap by whatever means available. An “all resources available” approach just like the Repugs recommended about energy sourcing to begin with.
#33, Bobbo,
All sounds like to me NO ONE is operating in EMERGENCY MODE. Just allowing any sub-optimal circumstance to be a no go.
Trust me, screaming or ranting only makes you look foolish. If you are going to take charge, then have a plan and know what you are doing. The government doesn’t have a plan because this isn’t what the government does. The government has never had to deal with an oil spill. The Exxon Valdez was handled by volunteers then Exxon took over. The Coast Guard only supervised to ensure that the work was done.
@bobbo
Your infantile insults grow tiresome. You support tyranny. Plain and simple. Either you are for liberty or you’re not. There is no middle ground. Everything you say to support tyranny are just excuses. Excuses used to convince or scare peaceful people into accepting the tyranny you hold so dearly to.
Oh, and I don’t need any guru or idol. I have a brain and eyes and I can think for myself. I don’t need to be fed an opinion.
@Mr. Fusion
You should read “The Market for Liberty” free audio book @ http://freekeene.com/free-audiobook/. This will give you an idea and answer all sorts of questions regarding how a free market society could operate.
Want to play what if? What if your neighbor builds a bomb and it explodes accidentally, injuring you and your family and destroying your property? How did the government protect you? It can’t and it’s foolish to think it can. Stop allowing scare tactics to run your life!
@bubbaray
you hit it right on the head when you said “looks to me like government IS the problem.” If the companies, groups and individuals which actually know what they’re doing weren’t held back by the government, they could actually go ahead and do something about it without having to wait for slow, ignorant government which knows nothing about oil cleanup, to act. There’s actually a small town in LA where individuals said screw the fed gov and went ahead and implemented a solution of their own. It’s not perfect but It’s better than inaction, waiting for mama gov to come to the rescue. http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/one-town-protects-itself-from-oil-spill-20233214
BadBoy–yes, we are at impasse, each viewing the other with similar conclusions. “But” at least I do give multiple reasons and examples why I find your position to be unrealistic, infantile, and a failure.
All you have is the bald assertion of the same.
So, tell us, how can you/Stossel still laud Friedman as a hero of your philosophy when he himself admits he made a mistake. A mistake that practically brought on the Banking Crises by manuevering the firing of Brooksly Born and the resultant failure to regulate derivatives?
Beyond the insults, there is the factual failure of dogmatic libertarianism. Beyond your complaints, there is nothing, as yet.
Fill in the blanks, if you can.
After so many days and no solution in sight??
Hurricane season is on already right? Imagine the hurricanes dumping the oil slick inland?! I’m no scientist but aren’t the ‘gulf stream’ thing will carry all these slicks all the way to Washington, New York, Boston, then to… Europe??
Smart people, pls enlighten me.
#35, BadLittleBoy
@Mr. Fusion
You should read “The Market for Liberty” free audio book @ http://freekeene.com/free-audiobook/. This will give you an idea and answer all sorts of questions regarding how a free market society could operate.
Thank you for the suggestion. You might have also recommended Mien Kampf, The Christian Bible, Alice in Wonderland, or The Cat in the Hat. All those books are fanciful, dream interpretations of reality, although I don’t think The Cat in the Hat is on audio book.
I don’t read (or listen to audiobooks) propaganda if I can help it. If all a German needed to know, or an American, or a child is found in one book, then you can be assured it is full of garbage and lies. Your suggesting I read something just to gain your perspective is indicative of your personal comprehension level.
#35, BadLittleBoy,
Want to play what if? What if your neighbor builds a bomb and it explodes accidentally, injuring you and your family and destroying your property? How did the government protect you? It can’t and it’s foolish to think it can. Stop allowing scare tactics to run your life!
No, I never suggested we play “what if”. Extremist comments though are indicative of the writers lack of vision, especially when you chide me for playing when the game is your idea. BUT, … .
If my neighbor did something surreptitiously that no one was aware of that ended up killing me and my family, I wouldn’t be around to complain. The best I could preemptively hope for is that it takes him too.
Back in the rational world, We the People have decided to regulate ourselves as to what is an acceptable conduct. Allowing people to build bombs is one of those things not allowed. But hey !!! I recognize, as does everyone else, that there are people that do break the law. Currently there are over 2 million people, edging higher every year, that are in jail because they did break the law. Very few of them were apprehended prior to committing their crime.
Were you aware of when the Exxon Valdez spill occurred? 1989. There are still some cases that haven’t been decided. Over 20 years and people are still waiting for justice. Of the close to 50,000 people that claim to have been injured by VIOXX, only 20 cases have come to trial. And you want the courts to be the sole arbitrator/protection.
I don’t understand you right wing nuts. You continually claim the Constitution as the law of the land yet you don’t want to live under it. We WANT the government to impose restrictions on our lives. WE THE PEOPLE do not want our fellow citizens to injure someone personally and WE THE PEOPLE do not want them to injure my property. Or your property. Or someone three States over I’ve never met. WE THE PEOPLE decided that, and it is lawful and it is right.
Hey Fusion–well done on the moniker manipulation. I missed that one. It irritates me that everytime I hear a legitimate/reasonable libertarian get asked the question, they say they do believe in government regulation to prevent fraud ((they aren’t totally whacko like Little Boy)) but every one of them goes against that reasonable interpretation whenever any regulation is brought up.
IE–they have learned a few debating responses to not appear as foolish at Little Boy “but” in reality they are all too much of the type.
the current liebertarian evil is ginning up. Just as Banks aren’t responsible for their various frauds because the government “forced” them to make bad loans, now it is the environmental movement that is responsible for “forcing” the oil companies to explorer miles off shore in deep water to avoid being seen by nature lovers in the shallow water nearer to shore.
What retards. I’d think any true libertarian would want that BP guy fired for his lack of responsibility/unnecessary risk to BP itself that he took on by drilling so unsafely.
Yes, maximizing shareholder return is NOT PART OF THE LIBERTARIAN MANTRA, try as its proponents now make out it is.
#41, Bobbo,
Hey Fusion–well done on the moniker manipulation. I missed that one.
A nasty, but fun, little habit of mine. I get it all the time so I seldom feel guilty.
I’m not sure who coined it, it might have been you, but one of the better twists I like is LIEbertarians. It is so apt and fits the bill so well.
Success has a thousand fathers. Who knows who really provided the apothogenesis of moniker manipulation? A great mystery.
Happy to see another soul take pleasure from it and not be a hypocrite at the same time. Hard for many to accomplish.
@bobbo
Yes, we are at an impasse. You seem to lump me in with those “libertarians” who site from so called “free marketeers” who use the government to pass laws which deregulate businesses. Maybe I should stress that you shouldn’t call me a libertarian, because obviously the Libertarian party has been taken over by the republicans. From now on, call me a voluntaryist. That way, you won’t be so confused.
I don’t know why you keep bringing up Stossel or Friedman at all, as I never mentioned either, you did. You can save those arguments for your libertarian friends. If you use the government to force regulations on business at all, there is no free market. You don’t seem capable of grasping that concept. Even if you deregulate one aspect of the market, other regulations will still affect the market. All your little examples are just proving MY point. Government allowed the deregulation of derivatives. Did Congress not VOTE on it? Government is the failure, not the free market, since there is no free market. Stop deluding yourself.
And I could care less what you think of my arguments. Anyone with common sense can see the points I’m driving at. You’re just blinded by your liberal ideals.
@fusion
Well, you ask me questions as loaded as the ones you asked, and expect me to answer them in a forum such as this one? I’d basically have to write a book. I guess the short answer would be if there is a demand for something, someone will supply it. That goes as much for cars, clothes, food and housing as it does for medical care, mitigation, litigation and protection services.
Yes, I say read as much as you humanly can! The more you read the better. I never said only to read the books I recommend. Read, read, read. Then use common sense and logic to ferret the useful from the bullcrap. You asked me, bascially, how a free market society would work. I recommened an audiobook so it would be easy for you to hear some ideas about it. Where’s the harm in that? Obviously, you’re not interested. C’est la vie.
I quote, you said in comment #28, “So if my neighbor decides to drill a well that explodes…” That’s playing “what if”. That’s indicative of your poor memory and lack of focus or inability to pay attention, or something. Mine is not an extremist comment any more than yours. If your neighbor is drilling for oil, he plans to make lots of money, and would most likely progress in a manner to protect his future investment and not risk it by being careless in a fashion that would injure you or damage your property. Now, BP, on the other hand, is a corporation, and is thus protected by the government. That means they can injure or ruin any property they like, while enjoying limited culpability laid out by their buddies in Congress, whom they have lined the pockets of with “campaign donations”.
Now, by “we the people”, I presume you are talking about the Constituion. Well, I wasn’t around when they wrote that thing. I never signed it. Neither did I swear to uphold it. So “we the people” doesn’t apply to me. Furthermore, I never “decided to regulate” anything or anyone. I don’t believe in collectivism and I don’t believe in assimilation. Yes, there are millions of people in jail for breaking “the law”. That doesn’t mean they did something which caused harm to another or affected another’s property. Where is the victim if I choose to smoke marijuana? Is my body not my own? Or does the government own it? How can they jail me for doing something to my own body? There are millions of people in jail who don’t belong there but are because of your precious government.
Well, to finish off, I’m not a right wing nut. I don’t hold onto the Constitution as if it were a gun. I don’t want the government to impose anything on me, that is silly. I believe freedom is the best way to lead our lives. Obviously you don’t. I say, as long as my neighbor isn’t aggressing against me, I won’t aggress against him. The government aggresses against peaceful people everyday. It’s called taxation. And until you open your eyes and admit to yourself that taxation is just government sanctioned theft, you’ll never see the harm that it does on a daily basis.
LittleBadBoy==I choose to call you as you post: a self centered/oriented man-child completely untethered to the reality of living with other human beings. A LIEBERTARIAN because you have to lie to yourself not to see the truth you can’t evade except to repeat the mantra of your dogma.
Grow up.
@bobbo
Let me ask you 1 question. If government is so great, why are we forced, under threat of fines, interest, property seizure, and jail time, to pay for it?
#46, LittleBadBoy,
If government is so great, why are we forced, under threat of fines, interest, property seizure, and jail time, to pay for it?
Because WE THE PEOPLE have gathered ourselves together and decided upon a common set of rules we can live by. These rules are for our common good and the survival of our group and species. We call this group a society. To protect ourselves from other tribes we have delineated our area and call it a country.
Those who are willing to follow the rules we agreed to are welcome to stay. If someone doesn’t wish to follow the rules then they may leave; our society doesn’t force people to remain here. If anyone goes against our rules we will try to rehabilitate them into join our society or we will punish them and isolate them to protect ourselves.
So it is up to you, personally, to decide if you wish to join our society. We are a participatory, representative democracy. We even allow all adult members to vote, unless they are mentally incapacitated or imprisoned.
#44, LittleBadBoy,
Now, by “we the people”, I presume you are talking about the Constituion.
Nope. I mean the people that make up this country. The people that elected a government. The people that don’t want to live next door to a rendering plant or metal stamping plant. The people that want regulations that would have these facilities set up away from residential areas.
Furthermore, I never “decided to regulate” anything or anyone. I don’t believe in collectivism and I don’t believe in assimilation.
If you don’t want to live within the rules of our society, feel free to leave. Somewhere there must be an island that could handle your type of “meism”
Now, BP, on the other hand, is a corporation, and is thus protected by the government. That means they can injure or ruin any property they like, while enjoying limited culpability laid out by their buddies in Congress, whom they have lined the pockets of with “campaign donations”.
Actually no they can’t. I understand your ignorance of living in a society blinds you to the benefits of regulation, but you are wrong. ALL mineral resource development in this country requires a permit. It is regulated. As part of their regulation they must submit to the will of the people which includes, doing their drilling and extraction in a safe way.
Well, to finish off, I’m not a right wing nut. I don’t hold onto the Constitution as if it were a gun.You already confessed you don’t agree with the Constitution or laws of our land. It might very well be you aren’t American and don’t hold to the laws of whatever country you do live it.
I don’t want the government to impose anything on me, that is silly. Even when all your neighbors decide they don’t want you polluting their water or making loud noise all night? You are allowed to vote for a representative or even run to be a representative. It is OUR representatives that form this “government” you despise. If you don’t vote then don’t complain about what you got. If you did vote and your candidate lost accept that more people disagree with your position than agree with it.
The government aggresses against peaceful people everyday. It’s called taxation. And until you open your eyes and admit to yourself that taxation is just government sanctioned theft, you’ll never see the harm that it does on a daily basis.
Like I said, if you don’t wish to be a member of our society, you may feel free to leave. When I buy something I am expected to pay for it. When my buddy and I go to a ball game, we are expected to pay for our seats. When our town builds a ball park for the kids we are expected to pay for the construction. The government pays for its purpose by collecting money from all its members. Yes, taxes.
But remember, if you don’t want to pay for your way in life, feel free to find that island.