Mass murder in the skies: was the plot feasible? | The Register — Here’s a good run down on why the recent liquid bombers were probably just nutballs who had watched too many movies.
We’re told that the suspects were planning to use TATP, or triacetone triperoxide, a high explosive that supposedly can be made from common household chemicals unlikely to be caught by airport screeners. A little hair dye, drain cleaner, and paint thinner – all easily concealed in drinks bottles – and the forces of evil have effectively smuggled a deadly bomb onboard your plane.
Or at least that’s what we’re hearing, and loudly, through the mainstream media and its legions of so-called “terrorism experts.” But what do these experts know about chemistry? Less than they know about lobbying for Homeland Security pork, which is what most of them do for a living. But they’ve seen the same movies that you and I have seen, and so the myth of binary liquid explosives dies hard.
related links:
How the liquid bomb threat has always been around
Liquid Bomb Methodology 2
Ice Bomb
Shoe bomb
found by Marc Perkel
One of John’s most brilliant contributors has started a cage match thread on this very subject:
http://cagematch.dvorak.org/index.php/topic,386.0.html
I must say that I don’t know much about TATP or the reactions involved, but to be effective, would a “bomb” made from this stuff have to be explosive to be effective? Are there any noxious gasses given off that if they got into the ventilation system of the airplane, a plane with 200 people would arrive from the UK dead? In which case there would be the same effect without the boom. The boom wouldn’t matter anyway because there are not going to be TV cameras over the Atlantic to film the plane going down, so the drama component would be taken out.
I don’t know about any of this crap actually making a bomb — but with a couple of cold pills and a camera battery, it’d make a nice batch of crank.
Frisk me for my evil toothpaste and mouthwash, but let me take my Dell notebook batteries on board and plant them under a seat!!
When is the last time you heard of a tube of Crest exploding? How about a Dell notebook battery? Ummm… wheres the logic…
Lets not talk about this too much, atleast not until I get back from my trip. 🙂
Why is it a myth?
Can you not bring yourself to believe that these people are out to kill us? The Germans are amazed that they want to kill them too since they said no on Iraq.
We need to be alert on planes and to speak up or just get off the plane-providing it is parked at the airport……….
Parnoid fantansy number….
1) They’ve got a list of scary things.
2) When they want more control, they pick one.
3) They find a way to make people aware of how the scary thing is much more scary then anyone thought and much much more real.
4) They get the governments to make laws that regulate anything that might be involved in the scary thing.
5) If item 4 fails, they incite bad people to do bad things and prove thier point.
This is especially effective for those who can profit from the regulation of various products.
Unfortunately, it’s really just a power struggle and everone is randomly running around trying to hold on to thier piece.
I beleive there could easily be a liquid bomb if one of the components was high strength peroxide. Is that reason for the war on moisture? No for the simple fact that high strength peroxide isnt all that particular about what it goes and reacts with so I would think that many have enough chance to earn a darwin before making a bomb
Well you can’t argue with Charlie M’s logic…
Mr. John C. Dvorak.
I remember on Cranky Geek episode 1. You mention that You were a UCLA Grad. in chemistry. Will You please get your thinking cap and enlighten us on how much power this thing really have, and just how much is needed to actually cause fatal damage to the plane.
Thank You.
In my mind’s eye I see a group of guys sitting around in a hidden room trying to think up things they can take away from you. Next we’ll be banned from carrying any open container, no matter the contents.
This guy tried to bring a penis pump on a plane,
When caught in the presence of his mother, He told them it was a BOMB.
The Idiot is held pending charges. hahahah sad but.. just sad
link [editor: pls use tinyurl]
People should be shipped in a state of suspended animation until all terrorists and their families have been destroyed and there is not a single enemy of the U.S. left in the world of 7 billion people. It should take 4-5 months, tops.
Of course, and I hope that I’m not revealing secret forumulas to the terrorists, but we all know that raw explosive power of vinegar and baking soda ….
If you believe in peak oil or catastrophic global warming, believing in liquid bombs on planes is easy to believe. Mix the wrong blend of cologne and aftershave, and the results can be catastrohic for everyone on board.
Robert Giele attempts to link this with some official Republican talking points for the upcoming election. This way he wants to make us think that in order to discredit the Republican security agenda environmental issues will suffer. Rove and his henchmen aren’t slacking off.
great minds think alike, 2xbob:
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/mail428.html#Carmack
this guy has a lot of experience with peroxide
http://www.doomrpg.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home
of course, to avoid being a darwin winner takes… lab skills …
🙂
As a chemist, I’m always amazed at what people think is possible with “kitchen” chemistry. Take for example a very simple organic reaction like the one for nitroglycerin.
C3H5(OH)3 + 3 HNO3 —–> C3H5 (NO3)3 + 3 H2O (Catalyst: H2SO4)
YES, you can buy all ingredients for the reaction in a decent supermarket, but if you try it out at home, it will not do ANYTHING…
Even if you would get your hands on high-grade chemicals (much more difficult!) and mix them in the toilet of the airplane, you would still end up with a fizz or a bad smell in the worst case…
To blow up a plane using binary liquids, you should:
1/ carry 5000$ worth of equipment and chemicals on the plane
2/ have an hour or so to set up the equipment
3/ have another hour or so to let the reaction finish (reading a good book?)
4/ have a Boeing engineer tell you where to carry the “explosive”
5/ detonate it in the right place (The wings? The cockpit? The tail is most likely…)
1-2-3-4 are all very unlikely, so pardon my French if my personal opinion is that all this “scare” about “binary liquids” is just a crock of shit…
Fabrizio Marana
i didnt know terrorist wore j’s.