For those who don’t believe in global warming, how do you explain the melting ice caps? Not dealing with the issue of man made or not.
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No significant melting is under way. Summer of 2007 had the lowest on satellite Imaging for Arctic, but is now up 25% this most recent summer since that low.
The Vikings colonized Greenland in the mid 1000 range. There are entire communities resting under what are now glaciers. Back then it had less snow because it was warmer, and therefore able to sustain a year round civilization based on grazing, farming, fishing. THEN the ice age came and covered it in snow and wiped out the lot of them. Some of those villages are still covered by snow, and the cemeteries are now permafrost. Unlikely they had back hoes or jackhammers to bury their dead in the permafrost.
If there was more glacier ice melt then, why no sea level catastrophe in any of the port cities of the world at that time? If none, why the worry now if we go back to where Greenland was in the past. Their warming was a natural cycle, why is not this cycle natural as well?
If CO2 is the culprit, why no heating in the last 12 years from Satellite data. Ground observations are too tainted by those with an agenda and the ability to manipulate data without having it checked.
One thing that has not been adequately explored is the actual soot that is drifting over from China into the arctic ice caps. Have you ever taken ash from your fireplace, sprinkle it on the snow and see the difference in melting of the snow with normal sun radiation?
More fanatics cause of these topics. Dammit, where’s the Palin stories!
Sure pollutions kills buts it’s not harming us now so who the fck cares. Come on, it’s only logical to take action until after…after 99% of the population has died off.
Cycles has dictated that Earth will survive no matter what. We don’t even have to mention that things aren’t nearly exactly the same when comparing time periods, we just pick and choose and hope dumb morons follow the propaganda blindly! Earth is big, the sky and ocean is big…NO ONE should worry that anything is happening. It isn’t like sealing yourself in your garage and inhaling CO2 and dying from it. NO, we have the big sky and ocean to help us die slower and sometimes more painfully like smokers and drug users. Those dead zones in the ocean are charities for poorer countries. All the neat stuff are free for kids to swim in and take home. The best thing is the WHOLE zone is 100% SAFE. Kids swimming in there have no worries about any dangers cause there’s no life there. Walla, 2 birds with one stone! Nice.
All this warming, climate changing, pollution is just bogus stuff for the sane. If anything, when I went down on my knees hacking and coughing like I was going to die from my first time jogging after moving to LA (5min of jogging), it’s only because I was unfit….UNFIT! It’s not the smog, it’s all the years I’ve competed in sports that has degraded me! And it’s definitely not the waste dump up in the mountain directly behind my apartment either; nor is it the ashes and crap that spills over via airborne. Those are FREE fertilizers mind you, FREE! You can’t argue with FREE.
Seriously, look at Bejing, have you ever seen such a more beautiful place? That place is so nice even its people will offer to wear mask to prevent from transmitting illnesses to others. And to solve the problem of sunlight burning your skin, they have enough “fog” to reduce that! That is so awesome! And since water is ssoooooooooo cheap there, you don’t ever have to drink from tap water at all. What a great place to live in.
This climate thing is a joke. Anyone believing it is a nut case. We’re completely safe from everything, we’re humans the ultimate lifeform.
Oh, and in regards to polar bears past and present, today’s bear look sick and pathetic because it’s all their fault. Look at the stupid bear on the piece of ice. He’s clearly not fishing for food! Add to that he’s not fishing for food where the majority of them are…on fishing boats. Yes people, polar bears are so fcking stupid they don’t know that they should be fishing on fishing boats instead of their regular grounds.
Add to that they don’t have a clue that they should change their diet it’s no wonder they aren’t extinct yet. Really, fish and seals? One has to broaden the diet to include above all else humans. Now if adults are too difficult then hunt babies, they are easy prey. And since humans eat so much crap they really have all the nutrients/vitamins that a bear needs. They don’t even need to fish anymore! Stupid polar bears I tell you.
This coincides with what I just said above too. Why the hell is the bear sitting on the small piece of ice for. He could have swim for hundreds of miles to someplace like Greenland and start his hunt there. Plenty of fishing boats and human babies there. This bear is just totally stupid and you can tell because you can actually see some of his ribs due to hunger…or more correctly, stupidity.
As to past polars, like in medieval times as someone had originally mentioned, they were, fat, lazy, boring bears. They hardly had to do anything. They didn’t have to chase fishing boats or hunt for human babies. EVERYTHING they needed were where they expected them to be. How easy can life get. If a bear wanted a fish, he go diving and get one. If he wanted meat, he go after a seal. If he wanted to relax, well…there’s ice everywhere. If he wanted to move he needed have to swim hundreds of miles. No energy wasted.
I hate these past polar bears the most. They do nothing aside from what they should be doing. Get it through your head bears…nature is change! You have to go after fishing boats and human babies…hello? Seriously, who in their right minds would like these past polar bears…dumb fcking lazy, know-it-all, healthy bears.
hey I have a theory, whatever anyone believes about global warming or not.
THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!
Less people = less industry, less need for abusive agriculture techniques, less transport,less pollution,less cities…….. better life, etc.etc.
Oh I wouldn’t be politically correct if I dared to say that having more than 2 children per family is sheer lunacy, and that in the 3rd world there should be compulsory birth control.
bonkersbrit — yes, compulsory contraception for the “third world”; but not for the nice white litters of the Mormons and Wasps…
#56, Mark,
I wish people would learn from history. The entire later half of the twentieth century was replete with an entire laundry list of pollution “crises”. Some were valid. Some were arguable. Some were bogus. All were exploited to benefit one group or another, be it political or monetarily.
And the denier crowd has this nasty habit of inventing “facts” Here are some rebuttals to part of your list. I didn’t answer more for the sake of brevity.
Here is a short list of crises that I can think of:
Global warming, i.e. carbon dioxide (which we are all exhaling at this exact moment)
Don’t confuse the normal usage with the tons of CO2 put into the atmosphere every day from fossil fuels. Global warming is being caused by the upset of the balance of ALL natural chemicals in the ecosystem.
Global cooling (apparently a side effect of global warming)
A side effect of “global warming? Uugh, no. Global cooling is the mantra of the denier crowd.
Mini Ice Age (which never happened)
Much to the dismay of the denier crowd. They called it and lost.
Thermohaline circulation, i.e. the oceanic conveyor belt (instant New Ice Age)
A phenomena not well understood and only recently discovered. A break or disruption could very well bring on a new ice age.
Hole in the ozone layer, i.e. global skin cancer scare (gave us a ban on CFC based aerosol spray cans and freon refrigerant)
Quite true. CFC (of which freon is a one of) do not break down yet disperse the ozone. This in turn does increase ultra violet light to burn skin and leads to skin cancer.
Acid rain, i.e. sulphur dioxide from coal plants
Yup, another true one. All that sulfur combined with water to acidify rain and snow. This killed lakes and entire ecosystems. I suggest you read about the Inco Big Stack and the effect its pollution did to the surrounding land.
Nuclear radiation (ban all new construction of nuclear power plants thereby forcing reliance on oil, gas, and coal)
There is no new regulation on nuclear power plant construction. Generators stopped building them after Three Mile Island on their own, not because of some government regulation. I understand there are several going through the regulatory approval process right now.
Nuclear winter
Sure am glad that never happened. You should be too. That was if the West and East ever had a full blown nuclear war. The debris thrown up from the explosions would block out the sun’s warmth for months or years.
Carbon monoxide poisoning, i.e. from automobiles
At ground level CO is a very corrosive gas and highly irritating to those with chronic respiratory problems.
Lead poisoning, i.e. lead based paint, leaded gasoline, lead shotgun pellets (non-lead pellets now required for waterfowl hunting)
Another extreme danger that needn’t be. Unless you are (and you might be) already brained damaged from the lead. Lead is especially damaging to growing (children) brains.
MTBE water poisoning, i.e. methyl tertiary butyl ether (ironically required by EPA gasoline regs)
Oopps, not true. The EPA does not require MTBE. They do require fuel that doesn’t emit certain pollutants and MTBE serves that purpose. So does ethanol which has largely supplanted MTBE. MTBE is very toxic and does not break down in nature. Many communities have their groundwater contaminated by it.
Fresh water shortages (gave us crummy low-flow toilets and faucet aerators)
Oopps, missed another. The EPA put in this ruling because of the energy required to clean the water to drinking levels that are used to flush toilets. Also the pumping of the water takes energy. Since much of the energy used to clean and pump water comes from dirty coal fired power plants, this helps to reduce emissions.
Well, maybe next time you can find something not invented by the denier / birther / tea bagger / right wing nut crowd.
From: Obamaforever
To: Mark T. per #56, #63 and #69
Quote from Mr. Retard (aka Mark T.) see #56 and #69
Hey, I clearly said “Some were valid. Some were arguable. Some were bogus.” I guess you don’t read so good.
End of quote.
Idiot, you never pointed out which ones were valid, arguable or bogus.
Sloppy work, Retard. YOU need to READ your crap more carefully!!!!!!!!!, Imbecile.
I am going to eat your lunch, Pinhead!!!!!!!!!!
It looks like you and FRAGaLOT are in love with each other. Please use protection. We would not want any more retards to come into this world.
I am going to the library. When I get back I will tear you anti-Climate Change retards a new one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t think that poor bear really wants to be humping an iceberg.
It just doesn’t matter. The persistence of human ignorance is huge and has an enormous inertia. Regardless of the cause, change is upon un. Choose your dognma and go to sleep, right? For those in denial of climate change, aren’t going to wake up till they find themselves in real and present danger. Yeah you know the same morons who think it’s a good idea to stay in Afghanistan because the Pakistanis have WMD. Our fearless leaders know it’s coming, but politicians don’t solve issues, they argue about them until it’s too late. I’m not even gonna bother getting worked up about it. Hell’s coming to earth and we’re all gonna fry. So let’s party while the partying’s still enjoyable.
Just wanna say again…fcking stupid polar bear. Sigh. When will they learn!
The Christian’s were wrong in the 80’s, the techs were wrong in ’99, the 2012ers are going to be wrong, and the environmentalists are wrong now. This is a political power play and little more. “the end is near” sign makers have nothing but a long term sales outlook ahead.
They will really be laughing at us in 300 years.
Cap & trade, UN actions, The green movement – all this will hurt the economy and will reduce “greenhouse gasses” by very little. The science is sound; we waste our time. The cycle will go on, as will those that predict the coming end.
#99–Fusion==thank you for all that work. How many Red Bulls did that take?
The ice packs once extended into the northern half of the continental United States.
Explain why they are not still there and how taxing gas and allowing politicians to decide who gets the goodies and who doesn’t will bring them back.
Obamaforever, you must be a little dense. You are STILL missing my entire point.
My point is that there is always a crisis that has been invented by politicians, greenies, lobbyists, or charlatans out to make a quick buck.
Sometimes they are valid, sometimes not. However, they will always make it out to be a thousand times worse than it actually is and will be used to raise taxes, reduce freedoms, or make the insiders very rich (often times, it is all three).
I was not trying to say which were valid and which were not. I wanted to demonstrate that there is ALWAYS something that is about to cause the end of society as we know it. The never ending crisis schtick is wearing a little thin. This is the “Little Boy That Cried Wolf”. I don’t buy any of it any more.
To me, this all sounds like the work of a crackpot organized religion.
Oh, and of course, Mr. Fusion felt it necessary to comment on every item on my list. Again, he also misses the point.
From: Obamaforever
To: Mark. T.
The only point I see is the point at the top of your head!!!!
Pinhead, say what you mean and mean what you say!
You are an idiot, tea bagger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, you have a lot of anger there, Obamaforever.
You should know that excessive use of punctuation is a sign of amateurish writing and debating skills.
Also, excessive use of insulting name calling is a modus operandi of a clinical sociopath.
Have you ever heard od Precession? The northern Hemisphere is tilted more towards the sun than it used to. Why are the growing seasons getting shorter in the southern hemisphere?
The Earth computer climate model programs say they account for precession. Of course, we can’t see the data or formulas because it would expose “secrets.” I say, GIGO and you can get any results you want to see.
I’m pretty sure this bear photo is from a couple years ago. I seem to remember seeing how it was cropped, to omit the rest of the pack ice nearby, that the bear swam over from. It’s not like it melted out from under the bear! Bears can’t normally climb up on the larger blocks of ice, that float out to sea. This just happened to be one of the smaller ones, that a bear could perch itself on top of. Probably resting from a long swim. Or trying to get away from hunters. Far more polar bears are killed every year from humans hunting them. Than are killed by any possible effects of their habitat, by human activities.
Sarah Palin probably bags a few, every year.
“For those who don’t believe in global warming, how do you explain the melting ice caps? Not dealing with the issue of man made or not. ”
If the ones on Mars are also melting it would appear that more than humans creating pollution is involved.
The sun is not absolutely stable. We are lucky that our star is a heck of a lot more stable than most.
18- “more people freeze to death than die from the heat. It might be beneficial if the climate was a bit warmer. Who decided that warming was a bad thing?”
Exactly! The only think this possible climate shift is going to mess up. Is the carefully negotiated financial monopolies of the G20. So in order to “hedge their bets” so to speak. They’ve come up with this Carbon Credit commodity. Which the rest of us will be forced to buy and enrich, while the already rich, exploit its value. It reminds me of the Tulip Bulb Scandal, of the 1630s. When Amsterdam was the central trader in rare and valuable Tulip bulbs. Some valued as much as a big mansion house. But after only three years time, the bottom dropped out of the whole thing. It was pure about speculation, and exploiting people’s ignorance of the commodity.
Now it’s a totally invented commodity, called Carbon Credits. The value and quality of which, depends on the integrity and honesty of those measuring the carbon dioxide levels, of its sources. No mention has been made of any safe guards against dishonest “assessors” and speculators influencing the measurements. We’re just to assume that nothing hinky is going on. Until another Eron or Madoff scandal breaks.
A long time ago, Gold was the world currency against which all others were measured. Then they got rid of that, back in the 1970s. And we’ve pretty much been subject to the “Oil” standard of world currency. But they are too many new sources of new crude oil and oil shale, to keep tight control of. So now, those that plan to profit greatly, by determining the value behind closed doors of Carbon Credits, are touting its worth at halting climate change.
This crusade also reminds me of how all the politicians jumped on the Prohibition bandwagon, of the early 20th century. And how some got very rich, smuggling booze into the US. All started by some woman, whose first husband was drunk a lot. So she set out to rid the world of drink, after a vision she had, told her to smash saloons. Which eventually led to the US Prohibition Act. And instead created the Black Market, organized crime, and later lead to even worse drug addictions. Carrie Nation ought to be vilified for the nutjob she was. Just as Al Gore will be someday.
-in a word: Cycles.
Tangent..No more debate needed.
Global Warming is a distraction for you peons to squabble over while they con the rest of the planet into signing over their sovereign wealth to the new fascist, Global Government which will use the faux science of man-made CO2/Green house gas taxes to fund a new World Bank derivative scam.
Sorry to say, your a blooming idiot if you believe *any* Western science at this point.
We live in a spinning, Electric Universe, not a static gravity universe.
Electric Weather
Plasma cosmology
Electromagnetics
Crystal Physics
Resonance, Harmonics, Vibration
Scalar wave theory
Spin
These are the things that define everything we see, feel and perceive. It all tied together with the physics of spin, or Torsion Physics. which by the way, even how Consciousness functions..
The “Theory of Everything” has always been right in front of our faces. -though you would never see it so long as your taught to “specialize” in one field. This purposely prevents most people from ever seeing the whole picture and thanks to religion, it is Heresy to intrude upon another “field of expertize” -scandalous, if I do say so myself.
Learn all of the above and you know the true physics of the universe. Our science is a fraud meant to keep us all in fear, in the dark and subservient to our Masters. With any luck The Russians will be revealing the “official” discovery of the [real] physics of gravity within the next year. (which hopefully, will result in us finally tossing the 19th & 20th century flawed physics of Einstein and Newtonian physics into the trash bin)
When this happens, we will be re-introduced to almost all the “forbidden” physics of the west, like time manipulation, “free energy”, anti-gravity and most important, that space weather effects and controls “earth weather” almost exclusively. The only time man effects weather on this planet is when he flips on an ionospheric heaters or ion generators.
DO THE RESEARCH yourself. -stop parroting government propaganda! This is 8th grade or High School science at best.
To awaken yourself to physics of consciousness, (and many other relevant things you’ve been deprived of) stick this into your favorite search engine:
torsion+physics+consciousness
Mind you, the Russians and Germans have been playing with torsion physics since the end of WWII.
The reason (IMO) why torsions physics are not a taught as basic course in the West is because to truly understand these physics, you must allow yourself to embrace and combine metaphysics with science/physics, -One body of work. -something that western mainstream science ridicules and equates with quackery.
-Also, we would learn how to heal without the use of drugs and in many cases, surgery. a BIG nono here in WestWorld. (see EM pulse therapy for clues)
I also suspect this is the key to Alchemy. (now we very well cannot allow the common man to have access to the knowledge of alchemy, can we?)
good night.
-s
The Mirror Image Rule applies..
93, So that’s your answer to global warming is man-made and that CO2 is causal?
Sorry, what you’re saying didn’t sound too convincing that you’ve proven anything to end the “debate”.
#97 Wretched Gnu
No it should be for everybody, but in the west there are other ways of compelling people to only have 2 kids.
Simply, we are more affected by sunspot activity at this moment. There is a climate time lag due to greenhouse gases.
There has been global warming with breaks in the last 309 years.
My work is posted at nationalforestlawblog.com. October newsletter under my name
Sincerely,
Paul Pierett