reposted by popular demand
At noon on Friday there were a series of small explosions high in the air above the city of Tyre and thousands of little pieces of cheap yellow paper came fluttering to earth. ‘To the inhabitants of villages situated south of the Litani River,’ the leaflets read. ‘Because of terrorist attacks against the state of Israel, which come from your villages and between your houses, the Israeli army is forced to respond to these attacks even inside your villages. For your security you must immediately leave your village and go to the north of the Litani river.’
But most of Tyre’s 80,000 people had already gone by then, driven from their homes by days of Israeli shelling and bombing that has killed more than 330 innocent civilians and a handful of Hezbollah militants.
By yesterday afternoon, Tyre, cradle of the Phoenician civilisation, one of the ancient Mediterranean’s mightiest cities, a world heritage site and an archaeological jewel was almost a ghost town. Among those refusing to flee was the 70-year-old mayor, Abdul Musa Husseini, who defiantly remained in his office along with a group of aides and policemen.
‘I would rather die with dignity and honour in my own home than die fleeing on the road,’ he said. ‘This is much worse than in 1982. Then they attacked the Palestinians, Syrians, fighting men. Now they are just targeting civilians.’
‘The Israelis are treating us like meat in a butcher’s shop,’ shouted Sabah Safiabddin, 45.
The shells and bombs continued to rain down on Lebanon yesterday, targeting roads, bridges, buildings, homes, vehicles and people. Last week, a leading Israeli hawk coined a new euphemism, describing the Israeli Air Force’s targets as Lebanon’s ‘material and human infrastructure’.
With no real aerial defences, the Lebanese are powerless to resist the onslaught. Yesterday, it was reported that the US is speeding a fresh consignment of bombs and missiles to Israel to replace the ones it has already expended.
The whole world knows how one-sided US government policies have always been in the Middle East. Oh, yes — and 9/11 will be quoted somewhere to justify it all.
# 7:
In Lebanon there was a bloody civil war between various Christian and Muslim groups for years, remember?
BTW: Where do you think these refugees in Lebanon came from?
The Israel Lebanon crisis should be sorted out quickly. Relations between India n Pakistan are getting tense after the Mumbai train serial blasts. The world is getting less safer everyday!
Rika
http://www.thecorrect.com
http://www.submitboy.com
Oh, and Mr. Fusion…
Your friends Hizbullah, those heroic defenders of freedom, have been firing on Israeli medics. Maybe THEY need to read the Geneva Convention.
Frank,
If we do not demand more from ourselves and our allies than those we fight, we are no better than they.
The UN has a resolution 1559 that says UNIFIL and other parties should ensure that the Lebanese government is at the border with Israel, and that Hezbollah should not be there. So I guess Israel is just enforcing UN resolutions.
>chance of killing civilians (unless it’s another terrorist state or group) or >they will attempt yo root you out and incur civilian casualties, there by >giving you a great propaganda tool.
Indeed. I have heard this from different Palestinian groups. That Israel shouldn’t attack if they know it may cause civilian casualties.
It is probably their number one talking point. Sure enough, it crops up again here. I’m not sure how else Israel can fight a war if the enemy hides out among civilians.
smartalix –
I’m not clear on what your point is – are you saying that the US and Israel should start firing on medics, too?
You know very well what I mean. Even if the other side is eating babies, that does not give us the right to do the same.
If they fire into civilian areas, does that give us the right to fire into civilian areas?
The Right says “but the rockets come from civilian areas”. We have had counterbattery radar since I was in the service 20 years ago. If the Israelis bombed only where rockets came from you’d have a stronger argument.
In the case of the UN observers, they are OBSERVERS. That means as a neutral party they may find themselves in both camps at any time. To kill them and blame where they are on their fate is ignoring their status.
We have the power to act with impunity anywhere. That does not give us the authority to do so. Every innocent we kill creates new hatred against us.
Israel has literally overnight turned an budding democratic nation back into a third-world country, using the kidnapping of soldiers (if you attack soldiers, how does that make you a terrorist?) as pretext. They shut down an entire country’s airport, seaport, and infrastructure. That’s disproportionate response.
We can spin this however we want, but the reality on the ground will be with us for far longer than we can even anticipate. We’re still cleaning up the mess from our idiocy with the Shah, which most American’s don’t even know about, much less remember. But the people there do.
We are supposed to be the good guys. We expect them to be barbaric, we are supposed to be better than they are because we are not barbarians.
If we simply say “they do it, so we do it” means that we are no different than they are. If that is the case, why are we there?
These events have provided a greater recruiting tool for the terrorists than anything we could have ever provided. Many fence-sitting Arabs will now come down on the side of the enemy because of this.
If good people decide that any action is justified in fighting evil, then their good is no different from the evil they wish to destroy.
Can someone explain why Israel has the right to exist? It is a failed experiment. Only those Jews who actually want to have their own Zionist state and right wing fundamentalist Christians in this country want Israel to exist. After all, without an israel, how can Jesus return? right?
Right wing christians want a Zionist Jewish state over there and they want the USA to become a Zionist Christian state over here. Its plain and simple.
So to make a long-winded story short, smartalix is saying he has no problem with Hizbullah using the UN “peacekeepers” as human shields, or with the UN allowing that to happen.
Jeff –
So you’re saying that Israel’s right to exist should be determined by a popularity contest?
By that standard, France would be wiped off the face of the earth.
Have fun trying to put words in my mouth, too bad they don’t fit.
Are you going to argue like an adult, or just stomp your feet and whine?
In the 364 words of your previous post, nowhere do you condemn Hizbullah’s use of the UN “peacekeepers” as human shields, nor do you condemn the UN’s allowing them to do so. I stand by my previous post.
I enjoy the irony of us in America bombing and occupying Iraq. A country with no means of actually striking against us.
Tens of thousands of Iraqis have died either directly or indirectly from our actions.
But when Isreal launches an offensive at a group that on a daily basis fires rockets into their country. Not to mention that the conflict was started by Hezbollah forces attcking and kidnapping Israeli soldiers. Somehow Israel is out of line.
Please explain to me how our invasion of a country which had no capability of striking us is more sound than Israel attacking a country who harbors actual terrorists who fire rockets into Israel.
Frank,
You are a very sad human being. You twist and twist in a pathetic effort to create issues where they do not exist in order to divert attention from the real issues.
Prove to me that was the UN’s intention, and I’ll condemn it. In the meantime, why not try and address the points I made?
Smartalix,
>
The problem here is that Hezbollah has embedded themselves in the civilian areas. They fire a volley of rockets and move. The Israelis can track where they have moved in the manner you described. They seem to like to move into civilian homes and mosques (as reported on NPR yesterday, can’t remember which segment specifically). The civilians that are remaining are at a minimum complicit if not actual collaborators.
>
What has the U.N. done to support Lebanon in disarming Hezbollah as they previously required in the resolution. This is a group along with Iran, Hamas, and Syria that have publicly announced that there will be no peace until Israel ceases to exist. Israel needed to remove the threat. It is really sad for the Lebanese and the UN, but enough is enough and the time to talk ended. I agree with Secretary Rice that a cease-fire is not needed until there is a guarantee that Hezbollah is disarmed.
I messed up apparently… I was quoting Smartalix’s second and sixth paragraphs from #71
When the final conflict between the Arabs and the Jews comes, we in the West must insure that it doesn’t spread from there. Let them nuke each other to hell once and for all- the rest of the world must stand down and get on with life, not follow those middleast assholes into Armageddon. The real Holy Land is everywhere BUT the middle east. The Holy Land is America, and everywhere else free people live.
Does anyone have a copy of the yellow sheets of paper Hezbollah always drops before their rocket attacks? I’m having trouble finding it online.
#71…Smartalix….your comment about *how can attacking soldiers make you a terrorist*….because they were attacked and kidnapped by a known terrorist group. A group that has been occupying the southern portion of Lebanon for the last 6 years against a U.N. resolution stating that they should be disarmed and moved from the area.
I completely agree with you that we should be better than our enemies. That deliberate atrocities are not a part of our way of life, and shouldn’t be tolerated.
But at what point does that allow a country such as Israel, who is surronded by hostile goverments and terror groups that don’t just talk about wiping Israel off the map, but on a daily basis acts on that threat.
Usually they do just enough to get a response from Israel then run to the UN and cry they were just standing there doing nothing and mean old Israel attacked them. This time they screwed up and Israel is doing it’s best to remove this threat to their very existance, and it’s a shame, it really is that civilians are being killed, but Israel really hasn’t a whole lot of options here.
You asked why we don’t promote peace and support the goverments of the Palistians and Lebanon……just what do you think we have been doing for 25 years or more? We have backed Lebanon in it’s fight to free itself from Syria, we have given several Billion dollars in aid to the Palastinian goverment and the Lebanonese goverment in recent years to help promote stability. Israel has talked and talked to the Palastinians and even with drawn from many occupied areas to show good faith. But the response is always the same….stepped up terrorist activity….more suicide bombings, more missales being fired into Israeli towns and now kidnappings of their soldiers. Hamas, Hezbollah and their masters know exactly what they have done here, they have probably made it impossible for an Israeli Prime Minister to continue the pullback from occupied territories. And THAT is exactly what they wanted. If Israel gives up all the occupied territory more Muslim goverments can then use that to allow themselves to show a more moderate course towards Israel…..something that Iran, Syria, and Hamas and Hezbollah can’t allow.
Your a very smart person, so I’m sure it hasn’t escaped your attention the series of happenings here that led up to this……it’s all a coordinated plan of action by Iran and Syria.
Iran has been sending more arms and materials to Hezbollah in the last 2 months to bolster them, it’s why the airports were bombed, and the roads leading to Syria and to the south, so that Iran and Syria couldn’t rearm Hezbollah. Those civilian airports you mentioned have been the rearming hub for the terrorists and the Lebanonese goverment has allowed it to go.
Sorry Smartalix…forgot to mention one thing…….the complaints about how poor and suffering the Palistinians are make me gag……Arafat died and left well over 250 million dollars in the bank in Switzerland, just where do you think that came from? It came from all the moneies stolen from the billions in aid given by various goverments(including ours) to help rebuild the Gaza and the West Bank. Arafat wasn’t the only one of course, he also allowed most of his cronies to skim off money as well……funny how such a poor people, led by radical(supposedly) freedom fighters could produce 11 of those freedom fighters on the list of the worlds wealthist people. Guess there’s good money in those checkered headdresses.
Frank
So you admit that Hizbullah was using the UN as a human shield?
No Frank, you picked your words very selectively. When I posted the excerpt, I could have done the same, but didn’t in the interest of correctness. If you read the pieces however, you will see that Israel continuously bombarded the well marked post, the Hezbollah were 500 meters away, and there had been 21 hits withing 100 meters of the post. If you had any military experience, you would know that artillery can hit well within 25 meters and the precision bombs are claimed to be within 10 meters. That makes the hits deliberate.
joshua
…you have a bad habit of calling anyone who disagrees with you or your stance on any situation political *liar’s, ignorant, uninformed, wrong minded, stupid, neocon, etc., etc*……then when they give you legitimate sources of their facts(and most times they ARE facts), …
Ok joshua, please reference where I called someone on this post was a liar. I called Frank on his statement as being what it is, wrong. When someone makes a statement knowing it not to be true, that makes IT a lie. And questioning his sources? He didn’t supply any. He won’t because he can’t. Last week we went on with this and Frank made some other stupid comments and when challenged continued posting more and more ridiculous comments but refused to answer the challenge.
…But when you are pointed to media sources that you like and shown the facts as printed by them you ignore them and go on attacking the other person”s credability, intelligence and so on. …
First, I try not to site a reference that is extreme. To many however, the New York Times and Washington Post are too liberal to accept. Yet, they are the two most quoted papers in America and possibly the world. Yet even they are subject to bias. When either paper, or other reputable source, publishes a story that is contrary to my position, I will accept it in the light of overall information. I seldom accept anything on just a glance or just because someone claimed it so.
Yet having said all that, maybe you could post something where I have attacked someone’s credibility or intelligence because they have referenced something published by a reputable source. If you are referring to Frank, it is because he either doesn’t cite a source or cites something totally over the edge. You are a college student, you should understand the need to verify before citing your source. At school, you fail the assignment for sloppy work. Here you get called on it and pointed out for being wrong.
I have not seen one post yet stating that Hezbollah is innocent. What I and others have constantly stated is that Israel is wrong to target civilians. In other posts I have pointed out that Israel is not innocent and have pointed out their aggressions. This is a far cry from the defending terrorism I and others are being accused of. While some suggest it would be fine if all Muslims and Arabs were wiped from the face of the earth, I will disagree with them and call their bigoted attitudes for what they are. At the same time I will defend Israel from the same attitude.
The subject of this post is the illegal bombing of civilians in Lebanon by Israel.
Joshua, As to your citing the Neutrality Act…..apparently you haven’t read it, or you read it like you do the Constitution, selectively.(a habit you have in common with our present President)
Perhaps you would like to point out some reference I made to the Constitution that was selective? The Neutrality Act is still on the books. Lend Lease was a specific exception. I am unaware that an exception exists for Israel. Having said that however, you are quite correct that it has been overlooked and bypassed by every Administration since it came into being. Except for when it suits the government’s purpose, such as the “Paint ball Terrorists” in Virginia.
Everyone seem to forget that this conflict started from the instigation of kidnapping 2 soldiers and killing 3 others. The Hizbollah terrorist organization is the equivalent of Al Quaida. No one can imagine The US negotiating with Bin Laden, so why people expect for Israel to negotiate with Hizbollah or Lebanon?
Civilians are killed because Hizbollah forces them to be there. Israel is doing precision work, otherwise you would have 60,000 casualties not 300.
The ‘real’ forces behind the aggression are Syria and Iran and the people of Lebanon have to plea with them, in order to live normal life.
Neither Israel nor the US would ever negotiate with terrorists. There is one simple solution to all the suffering here with 5 points:
1) The kidnapped soldiers return home
2) The Hizbollah cease to exist and are not supported by Syria/Iran
3) A buffer zone of 30 miles is created with 20,000 troops occupying it.
4) Iran is disarmed from its Nuclear program
5) If one more rocket falls in Israeli territory, all bets are off.
And it all started in a Viennese coffe shop….