Soon showing a picture of a bullet will be illegal too. See them while you can!
MILL VALLEY / Physics teacher under fire for gun experiment / Parent’s complaint raises issue about legality of stunt — Now you can’t even teach physics in American High Schools if anti-gun nuts are in the neighborhood. Let’s find out who the parent was exactly.
Every year, physics teacher David Lapp brings his Korean War era M-1 carbine to school, fires a shot into a block of wood and instructs his students to calculate the velocity of the bullet.
It is a popular experiment at Mill Valley’s Tamalpais High School, where students are exposed to several unique stunts that Lapp performs in his five classes every year to illustrate inertia, velocity and other complex formulae.
Turns out, it also may be illegal.
It is a felony to bring any rifle, loaded or unloaded, onto a school campus without the written permission of the school district superintendent or his designee, according to Marin County District Attorney Ed Berberian.
“I’m hoping that this is not happening in Marin County,” said Berberian, who groaned when informed that it was. “If he just did this in an open classroom with a block of wood, there could be ricochets. That in itself would be a presumption of recklessness.”
The rifle demonstration would not even be an issue if an anonymous parent had not complained.
So now this teacher, for merely teaching physics, might become a felon. Only in America. And ricochet off a block of wood? Oh brother.
found by Rick Salsman
Sounds like another over protective parent. I feel for that kid.
As a parent, if i was aware of the experiment and had asked some general questions to the teacher then i would not have a issue.
It sounds like this is a popular thing to see and people knew about it.
So what i think we are seeing is a lazy parent wake up and scramble. “O i have to be a good parent, so let me find something that i cna complain about.”
Tip to tattle telling parent: Ask your kid about thier school. get involved.
It’s sad to see what our enlightened, progressive society has turned into.
My Grandfather’s high school yearbook, from when he was a kid growing up during the 50s in Englewood, CA, has pictures in it of the school rifle club (of which he was a member). All of the students are posing with their rifles in the pictures. And he tells me he would take his to school every day, check it into the front office during school hours, and then leave with it after school to go shoot squirrels.
Now, you can’t even have a squirt gun without fear of being expelled.
I’d like to personally thank the generation that followed (who casually cast aside their parent’s notions of decency and class) for helping make this country what it is today.
Yeah, that’s the kinda kid who ends up shooting up a school…
The fact that connections to gun violence or Columbine are made in this piece makes me sick. They quote a psychologist about the “impact” of this…of what?!? I mean, THAT there is a gun used to create a high velocity particle for a demonstration?! Absolutely crazy.
The experiment has a very low probability of killing or injuring someone compared to the very high probabilty of getting killed or injured in a car wreck.
Since all of you like to rag on the religious right for similar stupidity, its time the comment stupid liberal nut jobs appears here. There, I said it. Someone had to.
erm, hello? I’m not american so probbably don’t understand this blogs reaction but a gun, in a school? Infact a gun, being shot in a school? No wonder parence were a little shocked. Only in america would this be allowed to happen for so long
I’m currently 21, but when I was in 4th grade my father and I were really big into registered (professional) trap shooting. I would go out every Thursday night to practice at the local club and occasionally forget to empty my coat pockets of extra shells.
One day a classmate noticed that one shotgun shell had fallen out of my pocket and I was promptly escorted out of the school by the city police.
Aparently, in my town. . . you can’t even have a bullet or shell due to the fact that it might just happen to go off . . . . ??? huh ???
My physics teacher was a lot like this man and it was a great learning experience. With any luck, the parent gets a clue and drops the charges. Teachers dont need fear of lawsuits and felony charges looming at them while they educate our young.
Sag, the gun cognicenti oft’ times say the the M1 carbine is too underpowered. Personally, I disagree and think it has a place.
When bitching against guns, many well intentioned folks are unwitting dupes of an international, well financed conspiracy to take guns away and rule an unarmed world of slaves. It is extremely insulting to myself, and many other freedom loving Americans, that the U.N is going to conduct it’s largest ever gun ban conference on U.S. soil on July 4, 2006.
Please note: There is a HUGE difference in power, noise, etc. between an M1 (which uses a .30-06 round) and an M1 Carbine (uses a much smaller .30 cal. pistol-type cartridge). The carbine is the subject of the article presented. No, the teacher should never fire even an M1 carbine inside of a classroom, but there is a difference.
In a confined space, even a .38 or .40S&W pistol can cause permanent hearing loss.
The more I think about it, the more I question that someone really shot an M-1 carbine inside a classroom. It does not make sense to me. Either the story is wrong or he really is nuts. Ricochets? I’d worry about the bullet going through the wood (and the wall). An 8mm mauser can pass a bullet through the web of a train rail; this gun isn’t much smaller than that.
I agree with you, SAG — DUDE! Take it outside! Please!!! Show respect for your weapon.
I have to agree with Sag here. The guy is nuts; the experiment should have been performed with reasonable safety precautions just as he illustrated.
It’s nothing to do with “stupid liberal nutjobs” its to do with irresponisble teaching (he should have made sure he had permission to do an obviously over the top demonstration), and over-reacting parents.
Nothing liberal about it, but stupid and nutjob apply equaly on both sides I think…
#9 So, given that, what remains is that the local government has deemed it a felony to bring a weapon onto the school campus, and this teacher’s annual demonstration has become illegal.
No, the State of California has deemed it a Felony, since 1995. The law is titled: “[the] Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995”.
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/626.9.html
Highlights:
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
(d) Except as provided in subdivision (b), it shall be unlawful for any person, with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge, or attempt to discharge, a firearm in a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e).
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From the article: “If he just did this in an open classroom with a block of wood, there could be ricochets. That in itself would be a presumption of recklessness.”
That District Attorney knows his law, doesn’t he…? He didn’t have to check a reference to understand how ugly this could get for the teacher.
17. this DA either does not know the law or misspoke – imposing “a presumption of recklessness” would likely be an unconstitutional violation of the presumption of innocence.
and the richochet? I would like to think that a DA, whose office probably handles numerous gun-related cases, would know a bit more about firearms, too.
#12, does the UN have the power to ban guns? Last time I checked, the UN was about as powerful as a high school student. They can’t inforce anything, and when they try to, they back down.
Thanks for the information, Sag. I suspected the teacher was a crazed gun nut. The information you have provided proves it. He deserves to be prosecuted. It is the only thing that will come between him and his delusions.
The country leads the world in gun related injuries and deaths. The most common use of a firearm by an owner is suicide. The mere presence of a gun in a home increases the probability of serious injury or death astronomically. And, still, so many Americans delude themselves about the inherently dangerous nature of guns.
Hopefully, no one is foolish enough to believe it is necessary to fire a gun in a classroom to teach physics.
#18 Remember, you are reading the words of a lawyer – and a District Attorney, at that – who is talking on-the-record to a reporter.
What he said was: “If he just did this… ”
Also worth noting:
Possession of a firearm in a school zone can be okay’d by the superintendent [or equivalent]..
Discharging a firearm in a school zone can be okay’d by the superintendent [or equivalent]…
Not having that advance, written permission is what places the teacher in violation of the law.
I find it hard to believe that any teacher in California would be ignorant of the law that specifically prohibits anyone from bringing any kind of weapon into a school zone – for the last 11-years.
Hard to be surprised by anything that comes out of Marin County, which gave us the American Taliban. Shouldn’t they spend their time getting their other students to be able to calculate velocity too? How’s this work anyways? Do they calculate how far the wood was indented?
Pedro, the teacher has been doing this for years…he and the principal checked it out legally…. he has written permission from the principal, superintendent, etc, and has for years.
The school is an amazingly sturdy building…and I’d guess that they use the old ROTC rifle range (in the basement, with solid cement walls) that was also designed to be an AIR RAID SHELTER during the cold war. It’s not “classroom, classroom” but on campus.
I think that showing a kid what a gun really does, and the velocity is a great idea…..since few actually have any clue (in todays world) what the real physics is of ballistics. The tv and movies have it all wrong…people firing guns from those stupid stances, and people getting shot dead…without a LOT of flesh and pulverized organs flying…no. I’d say, physics can’t be overtaught in todays world.
….Now, what Tam High is REALLY known for is the origin of the phrase 420 meaning POT.
21. DA’s are just politicians with law degrees, prone to gassing on like any other pol with a mike in front of him.
there are two kinds of presumptions (1) permissive – the jury is told that if you find that Mr. X discharged a firearm, etc, you MAY find that he recklessly endangered, etc; and (2) mandatory. same, but they SHALL find that recklessness was proved. (1) is constitutional, (2) violates the presumption of innocence.
and yes, if he was going to do something as wacky as firing off a gun in his classroom, he was stupid for not getting permission.
The number of people “assuming” the guy is stupid and needs to be hanged is amazing. I am pro-gun control, but not anit-gun (just want to see a threshhold on what’s okay to own).
But I love the idea of experiential teaching. The guy is what people are yelling is missing from American education, but, because it involves a gun, it’s suddenly maximum stupid?
Try reading about the actual experiment (if you can tear yourself away from watching “MythBusters” doing the same stuff), and drop the self rightous assumption that the guy is too dumb to figure out basic safety, and look at what folks “learn” from this. And I’m really sure that’s not “I’m a gonna take me a gun to school and shoot me some blocks of wood, and then I’m going to go apeshit….”
Physics. One of the cores of economic development to keep the county alive.
Hey folks,
I HAD A TEACHER THAT BROUGHT A GUN TO SCHOOL EVERY YEAR.
They would take a few hundred kids out to the athletic field, and shoot some melons, pumpkins, and such. Being suburban city kids, most of us hadn’t ever seen what a bullet could do.
Sometimes, kids scoffed. They were offered a chance to go punch a pumpkin to prove their toughness. Nobody ever took the offer, probably because the punch wouldn’t be quite as impressive or effective as the bullet.
He retired, and within two years, the school experienced its first gun incident.
Think about that. 🙂
Personally…I think gun safety should be part of the curriculum and guess what that means? Guns at the school. I would guess that all of the supposed “liberal” bloggers (or most of them) who contribute to this Dvorak Uncensored effort might agree. Does that confuse the stereotyping issue or not?
Can you gun lovers give up your gun fetish long enough to allow kids and parents to feel safe again in schools? Get a different hobby. Do you “have” to have a gun to feel safe? What are you so afraid of?
John, good luck getting your proposals passed, as Oakland schools wanted to ban guns for COPS coming on campus.
From the article:
It has recently been done with the full written consent of Principal Chris Holleran.
Although Bob Ferguson, the current superintendent of the Tamalpais Union High School District, was unaware of the experiment, both Lapp and Holleran said they believed the ballistic pendulum experiment was legal.
And, what is probably the key item:
He said he and the former Tamalpais High principal checked the legality of the experiment when he first started doing it around 1992 and determined that there were no laws against it.
The state law which makes what he did illegal was enacted 3-years after he checked the legality of his demonstration…
Unless they can prove recklessness, his only mistake is not performing an annual check for new/updated statues.