A poster showing President Barack Obama as Heath Ledger’s “Joker” character from “The Dark Knight” is creating a stir on the streets of Los Angeles where the image began appearing over the weekend.The Obama-Joker poster shows President Obama with white face paint, dark eye shadow and smudged red lipstick and also has the word “socialism” printed in bold, dark letters under the image of his face.It’s unclear who created the image and who is posting it across the city. Los Angeles Urban Policy Roundtable President Earl Ofari Hutchinson is calling the depiction, politically mean spirited and dangerous. Hutchinson is challenging the group or individual that put up the poster to have the courage and decency to publicly identify themselves…””We have issued a public challenge to the person or group that put up the poster to come forth and publicly tell why they have used this offensive depiction to ridicule President Obama.”
Golly, the head of the “roundtable” is upset. Hey. It’s a comic book character for chrissakes. Watch how this mimics the outrage over the Mohammad cartoons from Denmark. I wonder why nobody stood up over the Bush posters depicting him as the anti-Christ. After all, the four horsemen never showed up.
Found by Keith Ray.
#168–Hugh==I think at #163 you went off the tracks. Have to go back to basics on too many issues to resurrect it. Lets just conclude, we failed to connect. I’d rather my conversations go forward.
So, Fusion-like Hugh==you think when it comes to opinions, anything can mean anything huh? You don’t think that some opinions are so baseless and held by so few people that the opinion is wrong? Right vs Wrong “factually” as opposed to honestly held, or even stated as a parrot might without insight or knowledge at all to support it?
How about when an opinion is held based on a “fact” but the fact is wrong? Is the opinion wrong then?
My favorite: God designed the universe as demonstrated by the banana being perfectly designed to fit the human hand. (snigger, heeheeeee!!). Even the idiot movie star that made that video doesn’t say that anymore once it was explained to him that Chiquita Banana’s were genetically engineered by man. Is the opinion that gods perfect design is evidenced by the shape of the banana right or wrong merely because it is Kurt’s “opinion?”
Do you distinguish opinions based on facts vs opinions based on preferences? I like broccoli is not the same type of opinion as is Obama as the Joker is a racist image. The Joker image is fact based, not based on the biochemistry of your tongue.
Hugh–why can you identify the “glibness” of a color equation applied to sunrise/set but can’t see the very same glibness when applied to skin cream?
All so very basic. Some words/concepts have fine shades of meaning, variations of gray. Others are very black or very white. How much black is in pure white? How much homage should be paid to black when it takes a spectrometer to identify it all what with it being beyond human ability to see?
What does sensitivity to “Uncle Tom” have to do with correctly interpreting the use of the image of the Joker? Silly to think they are on the same spectrum just because the words “white” and “black” appear in the language discussing the two separate unconnected issues. Black, white, shades of gray.
#169 Bobbo
You’re flogging a dead horse, mate. Claiming to have a factual interpretation of art is just silly.
Also, day and night are night are not related to or even suggestive of race. A black man painted white or a white man painted black clearly is. Does it matter? Does it make a value judgement? Is it right or wrong? In this case its value is in the mind of the artist or in the eye of the beholder.
I think you are engaging in sophistry here, Bobbo, and you seem intent on snuffing out any discussion of race, presumably because of your factual interpretation of this artwork. Do I detect a the foul stench of political correctness here?
#169, Bobbo,
The Joker image is fact based, not based on the biochemistry of your tongue.
Wrong. It is all based upon our internal tastes.
To someone brought up eating broccoli (or any food) that is what the definition of food becomes. That becomes the standard by which you judge other food tastes by.
If you are brought up (or brainwashed) into hating all blacks, then making a caricature of a monster using facets of reverse discrimination, of the President is a racist act.
Whether the artist intended that is irrelevant. Many times words become an insult even when used non-indiscriminately. For example, the white southerner who calls everyone “boya” would find most blacks being offended by the term. That doesn’t mean the speaker intended to act racist or mean, but that is the way it is received even if the majority of white “boyas” don’t see it that way. Many times each day words are spoken neutrally yet sensitive people are hurt by them. Just because the speaker didn’t intend for it to hurt or the majority don’t see the sensitivity does not mean it isn’t there for others.
Two good opponents with passable arguments. Too bad this thread will/has petered out.
Hugh–how can you say the analogy to sunrise and sunset in inappropriate unless you know the proper/improper use of an analogy? Knowing that, you cannot logically say that any analogy is simply up to the artist or the viewer. You have to explain why as I have done but you are blind to reason if not to color.
That fits you too Fusion. “boya” is not the same as men made up cross racially in face paint. I’ve beat this horse twice. My final effort. Boya and face paint is not “defined.” Sunrise/set and “The Joker” are defined. Batman Comics and the Movies tell us what the Joker means. Trying to twist it into what it is not is wrong, a teachable moment. But when stupid is on the march, teachable moments is the first casualty.
Politically correct? Which side/argument is the politically correct one here? I’d think it would be the one that carelessly calls any negative taint on Obama as one that was not racially sensitive. Thats not my position so I don’t see how any claim of political correctness applies to me==just the opposite.
On another website, I’ve been in a one year argument with its host over the issue of reparations for USA slavery. I don’t think I’m taking the sensitive side there either. Good webmaster over there. He too is stubborn regarding changing his mind.
((About two years ago after a few beers in a lower class joint I said “Are you boys up for a real match?” and it wasn’t until the next morning I recognized fully the three guys were black. Good thing I had already bought the table a round of beers? Bars, Beer, Blacks and one stupid Honkey—doesn’t always end bad.))
#172, Bobbo, the dead horse flogger,
After I went to bed, another analogy came to me.
Currently there is a fair bit of discussion about Bill Clinton negotiating the release of the two women journalists from North Korea. As could be expected, several low intelligence commentators have suggested Clinton philandering all the way home. Innocent enough when you look at his history.
Yet what the commentators overlooked is that both these women are married with children. The low brow comments against Clinton were also sexist insults about the women. Funny, sarcastic, satirical, or whatever on the one hand, insulting and denigrating when you walk in their shoes. Suggesting they would abandon or forsake their marriage vows in order to “reward” or “satisfy” Clinton is sexist.
The point though is that those making the comments don’t think about how the two women might feel. Or women in general would feel about being treated as sex objects. My own experience being a sex object 😉 has shown me how shallow some people are.
#174, ‘dro,
Dumbya is a moron.
Obama is a liar.
A “moron”, as used here, is a subjective colloquial term requiring definition. A liar is a definitive word with a specific meaning.
The first depends upon what YOU mean or what your definition of moron is. The second would require you to demonstrate the exact thing(s) that the actor said that was untruthful.
Is Bush a moron? No. From all appearances and reports he is intelligent. It was the persona he presented the public that garnered that cognomen. Does Obama lie? Most likely as everyone does to some degree, although most people would want to inspect the “lie” and determine for them self if the word “lie” is applicable to the man as a general title.
Having other repeat your fiat mantra is as typical of the right wing as one has come to expect. You don’t want others to think for themselves.
‘JOKER’ Obama Posters to go viral
Download your Poster(s) is various forms here.
http://infowars.com/joker-obama-posters-to-go-viral/
Obama as Joker Explained
http://infowars.com/obama-as-joker-explained/
“…one of the reasons our rulers selected Obama is because they want to disarm all criticism by playing the race card. In our politically correct and brainwashed society, any allusion to racism immediately destroys an argument — no matter how reasoned or logical.”
As bad as he is, I would have to agree BushtheIdiot is not actually, really, technically a moron. He just talks and governs the same way a moron would. Maybe I’m just brainwashed because he is a spoiled rich kiddie that has had everything handed to him regardless of his multiple failures in life. That means he is better than the rest of us, right?
Fusion–I like your comment about the Clinton rescue but don’t see how it relates to “What the Joker Image Means” discussion. I thought the same thing as the early poster noted, that being alone on the plane with two attractive girls is exactly what I was thinking. I know two women who have met Clinton. They both volunteered that he undressed them with his eyes and his unstated desires were very self evident. Thats the man’s aura, and his track record when he has the power and no one is looking. Not so much the case with the reporters.
If everyone were sensitive to the all the associated interests in any story, there would be no humor in the world, and little analysis as well. While impossible to imagine, I suppose there would be pro’s and con’s is such a parallel universe.
As to married ladies “rewarding” their savior I have no doubt they would have done it as an express bargain had they the choice and they would have been fully supported by their spouses and children in doing so.
Such weird hang up we have about sex, or even about pleasure. Just how christian are you Fusion? (smile!!)
Dro–keep up the good fight. After a few knock downs, you can still win on points.
#180, Bobbo,
I thought the same thing as the early poster noted, that being alone on the plane with two attractive girls is exactly what I was thinking.
He was not alone with the young ladies. There were several State Department people there for support, including liaison and translators. I would also assume at least one CIA agent was aboard to debrief the women.
My point isn’t about Clinton’s reputation or motives 10 years after a well publicized incident. It is that no one thought that the young ladies were anything other than inanimate objects. The key point there is THAT NO ONE THOUGHT. They were just collateral damage on the road to making a Clinton joke.
Is your wife a tramp; sleeping with anyone that intervenes in her life? That doesn’t require an answer as I’m sure your marriage is none of my damned business and the question is merely rhetorical.
The same with the Joker poster. People aren’t thinking past their own prejudices and preconceived notion on what “racial insult” might be present. The attitude is “I don’t see it therefore it just ain’t there, so quit your whining.” Maybe they don’t see it because they don’t care to see it.
#181–Fusion==I don’t think there is “much meaning” on a tech blog on a thread where about 20 people comment for a variety of reasons.
Jokes don’t work when you inject reality–they never do. Slipping on a banana peel is not funny if you inject a head injury. The joke is Horndog Clinton alone on a plane with two women. Reality is everyone else on the plane, Clinton being a responsible man of substance, and the women being mature adults with their own interests and feelings.
How dour should we accept reality as our only guiding light. No, there is a time for reality, and a time for alternatives.
“The same with the Joker poster. People aren’t thinking past their own prejudices…” /// Well, there are lots of prejudices besides racial ones. Human beings are full of them. Just one of my stronger prejudices is to be rational. It most often OVERRIDES my prejudice to be racists. Other people rank their prejudices in other ways.
“Is your wife a tramp; sleeping with anyone that intervenes in her life?” /// Why would my wife be a tramp if she slept with Clinton on his releaving her of a 12 year sentence of hard labor? I’d buy him a drink and tell him to drop by next year. You’re just being silly now aren’t you Mister Fusion?
I don’t confuse fidelity with sex with the value of being free vs being caged.
#182, Bobbo,
Slipping on a banana peel is not funny if you inject a head injury.
Are you making excuses for Pedro?
😉
Why would my wife be a tramp …
I was using an analogy that didn’t work. The common concept in western society is fidelity in marriage. This is not universal but is a common reason for marriage breakup. Be it a “property right” or some other concept, humans generally bond for life and remain faithful. Not everyone, but most.
Remember the joke about “would you sleep with me for a million dollars?” Whether the payment is money or “in kind”, it adds up to the same thing.
Jokes and humor do depend upon someone else being the scapegoat. But what if you are the scapegoat and it is repeated over and over? Why do the Gieco Cave Men become upset at the stereotype presented of “so simple even a cave man could do it?” We think that ad is humorous and the Cave Men’s reaction even funnier. All at their expense. And we will laugh again the next time we see those ads.
Aren’t those ads racist against Cave Men? How many people care?
Fusion–did you forget what the thread/our discussion was about? Its been long and convoluted, I agree.
I certainly think fidelity = sexual exclusivity. But that is also in the normal context of things. The issue here is that same idea in the context of spending 12 years in jail at hard labor. That also is NOT the normal context so most likely the normal response is not called for.
Likewise, opting out of fidelity for One Million with/without the spouses approval is one context. A totally different context is ME NOT HAVING MY WIFE for 12 years, and what it is worth to ME to have her back.
Now, “maybe” my wife’s sweet vagina is or is not worth $1,000,000 to me but not having her for 12 years makes any payment to have here worthwhile. If you want to equate these different things, that is your right to do so.
Reminds me of the picture with Sandra Bullock and whoever where to get busfare out of town they decided to enter a strip tease contest. The joke ((so many threads coming together!)) was it turned out to be a gay bar and the guy had to trick himself out. Tables were turned on the standard assumptions.
Well, I’m glad we covered all the details regarding what the pretty objective/clear meaning of “The Joker” is. I think I’ll copy and paste this thread for posting on my tombstone.
Pedro: keep fighting the good cause. Think about getting one of those Joker masks.
I deliberate on the post is gifted and on the point. This send in point of fact helped me in my assignment.
Obama got what he deserved at the mid-terms… what a shame America didn’t when they elected him in the first place