The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on racial profiling.
Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class on racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.
“I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy,” Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.
The course, called “Racial Profiling,” teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community “and how you don’t want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from,” Fleming said.
“At an impromptu appearance at the daily White House briefing, Obama said he spoke with Crowley over the phone, and said he wanted to share a beer with Crowley and Gates at the White House.”
http://tinyurl.com/lumjlk
That had to be scheduled for 1:15PM. At 2:45 the President was mediating between the Israelis and Palestinians.
RBG
If you think that a man’s home is his castle then the cop was wrong to arrest Gates and Obama is correct to point that out.
If you think being in your own home does not provide complete immunity then the topic is open for discussion.
Either YOU support Obama, or you agree their are circumstances when for mere speech you can be arrested in your home and taken to jail.
obviously there are situations where “mere speech” can get you arrested. You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded room for example. What exactly did Gates say that was “over the line?” There have been numerous cases that say you can’t be arrested simply for cursing at a police officer. What did Gates say that was a threat or anything worth getting arrested for?
Here’s what the president said when asked http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2009/07/obama_tells_lynn_sweet_police.html
please show me the racist part.
#93–jc==whatsa matta you? Looking for an argument where none exists? Hah, hah.
But, I’ll play along. Work done for this week.
1. “obviously there are situations where “mere speech” can get you arrested.” /// The situation being discussed was mere speech in your own home. A very limited and special circumstance. I made a conditional statement and did not take a position. Can’t you think any better than to apply a false position to someone you want to disagree with? You act like a racist cop.
2. “You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded room for example. /// Thats not an example of mere speech, dolt.
3. “What exactly did Gates say that was “over the line?” /// Never said he did. That is Obama’s position. I merely point out that in order to justify the arrest/negate Obama’s statement, then Gates has to be viewed as saying something “over the line.” Do you understand what a conditional statement is? Educated in Texas?
“There have been numerous cases that say you can’t be arrested simply for cursing at a police officer.” /// Yes, and other cases that say you can be. All depends on the local law. I posted such a law on the other thread yesterday. But more relevantly (you do know what relevant means don’t you??) Gates was NOT CHARGED with mere abusive speech. He was charged with xyz.
4. “What did Gates say that was a threat or anything worth getting arrested for?” /// From my viewpoint, nothing. From the cops viewpoint, gates was told to STFU or he would be arrested, and Gates wanted to go to jail for whatever reason, so he got what he asked for. ((Only pimping you just a little bit as obviously the only pleasure I will get from this exchange is from my own consideration of the evidence.))
5. You link to an outside source. Bravo. Perhaps I should be less direct with you than I have been. Still, you should try to focus on what your counterpart has actually said and not go off half cocked in the wrong direction.
“If a monkey walks into your store” does not mean I am accusing you of hiding banannas. Post back when you can affirm you understand what a conditional statement means.
bobo, my interpretation was that you were making an either/or situation and your meaning of “mere speech”: Either YOU support Obama, or you agree their are circumstances when for mere speech you can be arrested in your home and taken to jail.
My post was an attempt to illustrate that the situation is not an either/or and that you can agree to both of those without it being a contradiction. I suppose it depends on how one defines “mere speech.”
From the police report:
She told me that her suspicious were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry.
What does this have to do with race? If it was a white person wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry, wouldn’t she have called the police?
Sounds like this is a class issue, not a race issue: Gates is an arrogant prick who doesn’t like dealing with anyone who doesn’t kowtow to him. This could have just as well happened with a white guy, following the officer out the door, demanding his name, threatening him because “I know people”, et cetera, et cetera.
I think Gates was in the wrong, and I’m a liberal. Some things aren’t about liberal/conservative, they’re about being a jerk or not being a jerk.
Sorry, should have been
… her suspicions were aroused…
… and here’s where an appreciation for shades of gray come in handy. Brace yourself, wingnuts: It is possible that Gates has useful things to say about race relations in this country AND that he occasionally sees racism where there isn’t any.
Ponder that before you start vomiting out your black and white conclusions.
#95–JC==I was going to mention that my impression was you had made some good posts, but a quick look did not confirm that. I looked again: and found #77==well done and you link to outside sources.
Unusual for anyone who does/posts what you do to so totally mangle what I posted. Now you confirm your intent to post exactly what you did.
So, I take another look from your perspective.
1. Yes, I was/am making an “either/or” logical premise based on those criticizing Obama because said disagreement leads to certain conclusions I don’t think the posters realize. IE–if not for their Obama Hate Syndrome, their natural position would be to agree with Obama. Some call it being a racist.
So, “mere words.” In legal/constitutional analysis, speech has been defined/categorized in specific ways not recognized in common parlance.
Your example of “mere speech”–yelling fire ((where there is no fire)) in a room is NOT mere speech. It is “false speech meant to encourage others to take action to their detriment.” a paraphrase from whatever that Supreme Court Case was. Sea Lawyer can help us there should he drop by.
Then you misapply your incorrect notion to Gates. Gates was NOT CHARGED with mere speech or disrespectful speech, or abuse and invective directed at a police officer. He was charged with (from memory) creating a disturbance of the peace and being tumultuous. I don’t know about tumultuousness. But disturbing the peace is like yelling fire were there is none. A crowd of neighbors was gathering causing the potential for further civil unrest with personal danger to the cops or to Gates, or both, as well as innocent by-standers. Both Gates and the Cop could have avoided this by more adroit handling of the situation. Getting arrested and having the DA/Courts figure it out is how less than adroit situations are generally handled.
It would be fun to find out if/when either Gates/the Cop/Obama have new ideas about what went down.
Hope this helps. I easily could have missed your issue. Words are limited and I tend to get quite anal/legal when “words” are actually the issue. Can be kinda sloppy otherwise for the fun of it.
Contest again, maybe we will connect.
Gates got what he deserved. A few hours of pain for shooting his arrogant racist mouth off. A black officer at the scene condemned Gates actions.
Obama got what he deserved. Coming months of pain for assuming the police were stupid and having a racists as his “friend”.
Obama’s aproval is now in the toilet and is less than Carters at this point in his presidency and is dropping at an increasing rate. At last the american public recognizes what kind of “change” they can believe in.
You wingnuts are so predictable. Everything Obama does is evil. Every little bump in the road for him is ironclad evidence that his presidency is doomed. You did the same thing with Clinton in ’92 — before he’d even taken office you guys were slandering him. Clinton Derangement Syndrome reincarnated as Obama Derangement Syndrome. And before you say “nyah nyah you did it too” explain the 90% approval ratings Bush had after 9-11. And even before 9-11 he had mediocre ratings at worst. People didn’t start dissing Bush until he started f*cking up. We had hopes for him after 9-11.
The Republican party — the party of Grand Old Haters. Is it any wonder your membership is dropping?
people, WAKE UP!
this whole racial / cop thing is a DISTRACTION.
nobody took the bait on his “urgent” health care press conference. when the live real-time feedback revealed that masses (and congress) knew only about one minute out of 55+ minutes was actually based in truth, they triggered the race question topic so as to take any and all focus off the health care package (and obama’s) complete fabrication and distortion of facts about it.
it was an exercise pure political genius and subterfuge, nothing more.
this cop story is NOTHING. -the facts will eventually prove it.
geeze you people are gullible.
-s
PS:
-its just another “Hey look over here” story.
-s
Thanks for a classic example, soundwash. i rest my case.
Wow!! I never thought that this will be such a big news. It went from Gates arrest to Obama apalogy. This has become more interesting than what I thought. So, I collected all the sites or articles (more than 250 sites or articles) related to this hot topic “Cambridge Police Unit Demands Apology from Obama”. If you are interested take a look at news, video coverage, people views and reviews on this topic at the below link.
http://markthispage.blogspot.com/2009/07/all-about-cambridge-police-unit-demands.html
#94, bobbo, the disillusioned one,
Sorry bobbo, but this post is all over the map making accusations jccalhoun did not allude to.
#1,
The situation being discussed was mere speech in your own home. A very limited and special circumstance. I made a conditional statement and did not take a position.
Wrong. You decided that the answer did not supply your needs. You do have free speech rights in your own home subject to the limitations as outlined here by jccalhoun and in the other post by myself.
Can’t you think any better than to apply a false position to someone you want to disagree with? You act like a racist cop.
Now that is just silly. Because YOU disagree you now accuse him of being racist.
#2,
“You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded room for example. /// Thats not an example of mere speech, dolt.
That is an example of a limit on free speech. Since you failed to define what YOU demanded be free speech, that is a good answer and quite correct.
#3,
“What exactly did Gates say that was “over the line?” /// Never said he did. That is Obama’s position. I merely point out that in order to justify the arrest/negate Obama’s statement, then Gates has to be viewed as saying something “over the line.”
Wrong again. The discussion, and the whole post, is that someone was arrested at home for what he said. Obama said the arresting of someone for free speech in their own home is stupid. By pointing out something you take that side.
“There have been numerous cases that say you can’t be arrested simply for cursing at a police officer.” /// Yes, and other cases that say you can be. All depends on the local law. I posted such a law on the other thread yesterday. But more relevantly (you do know what relevant means don’t you??) Gates was NOT CHARGED with mere abusive speech. He was charged with xyz.
The statute you cited is from 1904. Would you like to post some cases where that law has been upheld? It sure sounds contrary to the First Amendment. Did you know that South Carolina’s Constitution still allows slavery? Are you going to argue that one too?
#4,
“What did Gates say that was a threat or anything worth getting arrested for?” /// From my viewpoint, nothing. From the cops viewpoint, gates was told to STFU or he would be arrested, and Gates wanted to go to jail for whatever reason, so he got what he asked for.
Please post something, other from the wing nuts, that purport that Gates wanted to be arrested? But even that won’t answer jccalhoun’s question.
If he didn’t say anything worth being arrested for, then the arrest can’t stand. So you admit Gates is in the right and the cop is wrong.
#5,
You link to an outside source. Bravo. Perhaps I should be less direct with you than I have been. Still, you should try to focus on what your counterpart has actually said and not go off half cocked in the wrong direction.
The comments from jccalhoun were not directed at you. He plainly noted to whom they were directed and why. He was far from going off half cocked by pointing out the fallacy of some wing nut’s unsubstantiated claim. To the contrary, it is you who has been going off on some philosophical tangents. If you want a bigger issue, why not ask why racial profiling is constantly denied by the wing nuts?
Why not ask why if the same situation happened to another Harvard Professor, say Henry Kissinger, being arrested by a black Sargent being rude wouldn’t evoke massive condemnations? Why not start asking why no one is reading Gate’s statement on the affair and instead are totally accepting of the cop’s position?
“G.O.A.U.T.L” Gone On Arrival Unable To Locate.
#96, Phydeau,
From the police report: . . .
So, what makes the Police Report the end of the story? What evidence is there that the cop did not lie? On this blog we continually see where police lie to cover up their actions. We know it happens.
Gates is an arrogant prick who doesn’t like dealing with anyone who doesn’t kowtow to him. This could have just as well happened with a white guy, following the officer out the door, demanding his name, threatening him because . . .
Alright, the same scenerio as I put to Bobbo; what if this was Henry Kissinger who came home and found his front door stuck. Being elderly, he asked the limo driver (parked on the street in front of the house) to help him. A concerned citizen phones 911 and says two men, one in a suit and an elderly one using a cane are trying to “wedge” open the front door. A black Sargent shows up and automatically is rude to Kissinger, demanding he step out of the house. Kissinger refuses and, being the asshole he is, demands the black cop show him some ID. He even calls the cop some names and tells him “he knows people”. After the cop has ascertained Kissinger’s ID he then arrests him for “being tumultuous”.
Don’t you think the wing nuts would be screaming their faces off at the “poor judgment” made by the black cop? Wouldn’t this be stupid?
The cop arrested a man for *speaking* harshly to an authority figure.
End of story.
Best summation yet, W.Gnu.
This is really a police authority abuse case, not a race case.
The authority figure is the guy who knows Obama, right?
RBG
Mr. Fusion, I agree that the racist wingnuts will blame the black guy no matter what. But sometimes the black guy is at fault and it’s not racism, it’s just the black guy being an obnoxious asshole and being treated as such. Assuming the guy’s innocent just because he’s black is racism just as much as assuming he’s guilty just because he’s black.
And I agree, the police report isn’t the whole story. If they interview the other witnesses they may get a different story. But from the evidence at hand, to me it looks like obnoxious jerk mouthing off to cop.
For the last time, being an obnoxious jerk is not against the law.
Either you believe a person’s home is their castle, or you belive cops can do with you there what they will.
Either you believe that cops serve us, or you believe we must kowtow to them.
Sheep or man, your choice. I choose man, even if an arrogant cop decides to abuse his authority to teach me a “lesson”.
Having said that, whenever I get pulled over for speeding I kiss that cop’s ass like they were giving prizes for it. That’s a totally different situation, however. Those that cannot see that are blind.
#112, Phydeau,
Your post is hard to disagree with. I attribute that more to your powers of argument than the actual point. We could make this a discussion of whether racism and racial profiling by police is a problem or whether what someone says in his own home is protected speech. But to home in on just making this an issue where the victim (Gates) might be mistaken is disingenuous.
That people might take the wrong view and make a false assumption is a given. That they might be programmed to take that view because of their personal history and experience is important, EXCEPT, in the case of a police officer (or Judge, prosecutor, lawyer, etc) in the course of their duties where they can not be allowed personal feelings.
However, . . .
The best answer to that is Alix’s post in #113; it is not illegal to say things that hurt others feelings. I would add to Alex’s post just one other tidbit, an abuse of power by the police against one person, is an abuse against everyone.
It’s Monday and I’m LMAO about the majority of comments made…even before the president decided he needed to show what a racist bigot he is too.
How quickly so many posters (and the president) automatically condemned the police based on sketchy reports. And upon further information, continue to refuse to believe offical reports.
It can only mean: 3 police officers (black, white & hispanic), neighbors & 911 operators are all part of a mass conspiracy to pick on this one poor, crippled teacher.
Guess it’s pretty obvious who the racist bigot really is.
#115, Rick,
That was funny.
I notice you didn’t bother to tell us what law Gates broke. And yes, police brutality is a problem, not just against blacks but ALL citizens. And yes, police fudge their reports all the time. And yes, police arrest people on false charges all the time.
It happens. Will it take until you get busted on a phony charge before you realize that fact?
#116
Guess so….as long as it’s a conspiracy AND I get to drink a beer with you and the President afterwards!
I should really watch my words, cause if we get someone like Janet Raino* back…I’ll probably be in a world of hurt:)
*she did some serious police brutality in her day.