Even if conservatives are wrong and it isn’t man made, the global temperature is rising and we better get used to it.
LONDON: ‘Too late’ to stop 3C rise in temperature
The world should get used to the idea of average temperatures rising by 3C [5 degrees Fahrenheit] because it is not politically achievable to reduce global warming further than that, the [British] Government’s chief scientist said yesterday.
Prof Sir David King said that even by the most optimistic assessments carbon dioxide levels were due to rise to double what they were at the time of the industrial revolution.
If no steps were taken to manage the change, he said, few eco-systems would be able to adapt and up to 400 million people worldwide would be at risk of hunger as up to 440 million tons of cereal production was lost.
Prof King was scathing about politicians who believed they could simply rely on new technologies to produce cleaner fuels, and said they must start listening to the scientists. “There is a difference between optimism and head in the sand,” he added.
I know it doesn’t seem like much; but, if the heartfelt middle-of-the-roaders would do just a bit of reading around, they must realize that dramatic changes over much of the globe result from this change.
History, paleontology, climatology may be disciplines that don’t motivate opinions; but, surely, they are the basis for sound long range decision-making.
RTFM counts for political decisions as well and often as our daily bread.
Based on what I’ve read so far, everything that comes under the heading “Global Warming” is probably a natural cycle of the earth which we cannot stop or mitigate. That being said, I’m willing to support the people who want to use it to create political heat to bring an end to the dictatorship of the automobile.
I want to begin my thanking you John for providing a space for us to interact on anything you find of interest. I also hope you are right about the mac.
I am unsure what to think these days regarding Global Warming. One party says we are causing it, another denies it, and then others say it is out of our hands b/c nature is doing it from the sun with sunspots and it’s cycles. The only thing I know is that the politiking ocurring is by all sides and is mudding the issues. This is happening regardless of whether your are a politician, in the news media, or a scientist.
Here is an article on how we are actually in a cycle of cooling down over the last few years. It also talked about how this cycle has happened before and will occur again. Article Link for Global Cooling
What is happening to our planet? I do not know other than there are many people on ALL sides using this issue as a power play for their own devices.
One thing I know many people including scientist will be wrong in the end. Back in the 80’s scientist cried out that we had hit the no return for global warming and for the max population of the earth. Yet no ice age yet.
Wes — if you give equal credence on global warming to politicians and media types, you may as well throw in a couple of comedians and priests, too.
A few pop sci people talked about “coming Ice Age” the way we joke about the statistical likelihood of Moses returning and setting fire to the shrubs at the White House. Paleoclimatologists have built a fairly solid science by being thoroughly ignored by the press and politicians for decades.
Everything they have added to our body of knowledge in recent years affirms (1) impending global warming and (2) foot-dragging at the whim of spooky politicians does us all no good. True Believers, whether they be priests, pundits or politicians aren’t even owed respect much less power.
I think the Professor is probably right…..not sure about his time table. We are going into a warming cycle. That I believe is a fact.
What I don’t yet believe is the cause. I am of course not an expert, but from what I can see and read, I think it’s 90% or higher a natural cycle.
Can humans stop it….hell no!!! Can we slow it down, seriously doubtful. Can we plan for the problems that will occur when we get seriously warmer?…I don’t have a lot of faith on that. We can’t keep people from dying of starvation now in areas that are suffering drought in Africa and Asia. Look at Zimbabwe, or Kenya, hundreds of thousands are dying or are close to starvation and the world acts like it’s not a big deal. But, once the more advanced countries start to have the bad effects, then they will get the ball rolling, especially if there’s money involved.
All we can really do is try to preserve as many species as possible through conservation, clean up our air by using cleaner fuels, and try to keep toxins out of the oceans, rivers and Lakes of the world, and there-by help to keep our food and water supply free of harmful toxins.
Politicians don’t think ahead except for their own re-election. It will take Manhatten being under water or London to get their attention. When their voters and tax payers start dying, they will be galvinized into action.
I guess I don’t really have a lot of faith in most of mankind.
I hope proponents would rename this warming cycle (though it’s unlikely as it have become a political issue) as we positively know that the present Sun activity is greatest in at least 400 years and can measure sudden increase in the “global” warming during last couple of decades at such nearby places as Jupiter and Saturn (measured by observed wind speeds there). Even Jupiters great red spot have changed lattitude (consistent with temperature increase) during the last decade, first time since it have been seen by humans…
So, start calling this cycle “Solar system warming”… or something…
How come temperatures ahve been about the same from 1998-2005?
Somewhere on realclimate.org is a graph of computer model runs from around 1850 through 2000. (I’m not that familiar with the site and I couldn’t locate it after a 20 minute search.) The runs are averaged and compared to actual global temperatures for the period.
If you can find the graph, ignore the model runs and just look at the actual temperature plots. If you slap a straight edge on the peak temperatures from 1910 to 1955 and draw a line to present (an “eyeball” linear regression), you find that the warm temperatures we are seeing today are right on target from the projected temperatures from the first half of the 20th century. That temperature rise is about 1 degree F for the entire century. Project that line through the end of this century and you get another 1 degree F temperature rise.
What this means to me is that the climatologists get just a little too cute with their data.
AB CD and Smith must be clueless twins.
First, neither of you appears to have any idea about the resultant global changes from a few degrees (usually C., of course). If you are sincerely interested, than get off your rusty dusty and research it on your own. I’m through suggesting reading lists.
Second, finding one miniscule chart of the thousands volumes of serious research that have been published — to wave vaingloriously, shouting, “see — here’s someone who thinks like me!” — is nothing more than patent-leather sophistry.
If you can dredge up serious peer-reviewed and verifiable studies — done in the modern era, please do so. I track this topic on a daily basis — and I’m fortunate enough to get to discuss the topic with (among others) one bona fide paleoclimatologist. And all he debates, nowadays, is the size of both responsibility and ability to counter human-caused global warming.
I was looking for another graph. But this may suffice. If I do find the one I was looking for I’ll post it.
http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm
Man them dinosaurs must have been emitting some hot gases.
LOL, moss, you sure have the party line down pat. I am singularly unimpressed with your discussion with a real, live, honest-to-goodness paleoclimatologist. You talk like he is some kind of god. To me, he or she is just another scientist, no better or smarter than the many others I deal with from time to time. There are 300 people in the building where I work. Roughly 100 of them work in IT, another 100 are engineers of all types, and about 40 are research scientists. None of them intimidate me intellectually.
My biggest complaint with people of your ilk isn’t your position on global warming, but with your Devine duty to shout down any reasoned opposition to your point of view.
Well, some of us examine the data, we study positions, then we use our brains to actually draw our own conclusions. If we cannot become fellow zealots in your cause, it’s because your arguments are insufficiently robust.
And when a global-warming zealot makes statements such as, “few eco-systems would be able to adapt and up to 400 million people worldwide would be at risk of hunger as up to 440 million tons of cereal production was lost,” then some of us dismiss this “scientist” as being not a scientist (where is the data?), but a politician spreading fear for his own politcal gain.
1. Im waiting for the water to raise…
2. population growth from NOw to 2050 will be about 3billion MORe persons. BREATH deep while you can..
3. weather forcasting and understanding hasnt been here that long, and the planet has (like) a 10,000 year cycle, they THINK. But we SURe aint helping it.
4. AS with any creature that out grows its self, without CONTROL…It quickly eats itself out of house and home and SOON starves, BACK to a certain level.
5. THAT level??? cut about 2-3 billion persons OFF curent populations, and you JUSt might have it…
6. by 2050…can you say…solent GREEN…read the book or watch the OLD movie..
7. by 2050…Look are animals (TODAY, in the wild) and how they react to each other as groups…esp MONKEYS, when other packs interreact, over food and land..I dont expect ANY LESS from humans…
John, you should sticky THIS one…
This is exactly one of the points I’ve been making all along. You can make a case that warming is happening but you can NOT make a case that mankind can do anything about it. This means there is no reason to worry about it – just shut the F up and DEAL with it in your own way.
There is definitley no reason to get a tiny car or take mass transit or any of that uncivilised garbage. Live however you want to AND allow everyone else to do the same.
Let me amend my comments as I read further in – the yahoo says “We don’t have to succumb to a state of despondency where we say that there is nothing we can do so let’s just carry on living as per usual. It is very important to understand that we can manage the risks to our population,” he said.
Wrong. He’s implying that we need to cut back on everything. The question is: Is that a world worth living in?. The answer is NO.
14…
the USA, has a tendancy NOT to do anything until its to late…Esp vironmentally, and AGAINST big companies.
Az was a BIG dumping site in the 30’s-50’s…LOTS og companies were dumping in the desart around phoenix…NOW, people LIVE there and there are lots of problems..
Niagra, has a Burial site…Love canal..
Regulations on the Metals industry has made it NOT worth making metals in the US…
Radioactive materials, clothing, medicians anything contaminated, including ALL that Nuke waste from reactors, WAS going to be buried for 1000 years, and that HAS BEEN reduced to a suggested 100 years containment…on somewthing that has a Half life of 15000 years…
do you want to tell our grand children that the water supplies will probably be POLLUTED in the southwest in 100 years??? Talk about GLOW…