While the poor quality of American cars is hardly news, it is interesting to read some of the comments from workers within the auto industry saying it, too.
Readers offer U.S. automakers some advice
Once upon a time, American-made cars embodied a vigorous national confidence. They were enormous chunks of muscular metal and chrome with jukebox-like dashboards and dangerously-sharp tailfins. Bold and flashy, they commanded respect on the highway.
These days, forget about respect. American cars are singled out for their lack of exciting designs, poor quality and meager fuel efficiency. Many American consumers began to choose Toyotas over Chryslers years ago.
While I don’t begrudge anyone getting paid appropriately for the work they do, some of the pay and benefit rates the unions have forced on the automakers are so ridiculously high that something has to give to compete on price with foreign cars. Quality and design was it.
To put the costs into perspective, when a new car hits the market it costs a car company on average about $1,000 to provide healthcare for the employees who made it, according to data from accounting firm Ernst & Young.
I travel a lot for work and drive a lot of rental cars, all shiny new or nearly so, American ones. Still prefer my old Mazda back home.
“Looks to me like they should send somebody out to the Detroit Toyota dealership, buy a car and bring it back to the office. Both companies should take the car apart, study it carefully and endeavor to build a Ford or GM car that is somewhere near as reliable, dependable and reflects the car’s quality and craftsmanship. If they’d do that, I’d trade my new Camry in the next day,”
“…Both companies should take the car apart, study it carefully…”
Too bad that would them busted, I’m sure, for violation of the DMCA. =P
“I bought a new Subaru and its Sooo much better than my 1981 Cutlass Ciera in quality. I feel so good that I’m not paying for health care for an overpaid American worker. The Subaru is sooo cool I can’t help but brag on how much more exciting it is than those BO-RING ing American Cars that I didn’t even bother going to their websites.”
Why don’t you blog this post. You can make up your own headline. This is about as newsworthy or truthful as the dvorak.org/blog post.
Or you could actually quit trying to make youself feel lousy about not supporting American workers and American companies that have been building some of the best cars in terms of quality in the last decade and often surpass the quality of many (and sometimes all) foreign makes. I’d post the link to JD Power but you must know it all anyway. “JD Power is propaganda and does not reflect my vast experience.” And since cars from foreign makes seems to cost about the same, where does that extra $1000 go. Maybe its profit that is taxed in Japan which their government uses to pay for their services which may include health care.
And as far as excitement. If you think that Mazda and a Camry is exciting…. oh well.
I’ll be yawning as I drive (or tow) my H3 to the dealership again for another repair. Does that make you feel better!!!
Regarding the story line:
“…Both companies should take the car apart, study it carefully and endeavor to build a Ford or GM car that is somewhere near as reliable, dependable and reflects the car’s quality and craftsmanship.”
Apparently that’s already being done. Saw the following article in the print version of the Feb ’06 Wired last week, but unfortunately it won’t appear online until 3 Feb:
Wired Magazine
“The Teardown Artists
Inside General Motors’ chop shop, they take (apart) the competition very seriously.
[ Coming February 3 ] By Carl Hoffman”
http://www.wired.com/wired/
I would expect that _every_ major automaker in the world has a similar operation.
Ref: “Looks to me like they should send somebody out to the Detroit Toyota dealership, buy a car . . . take the car apart, . .”
This would not do it. Even if Toyota provided Detroit the drawings and Specs, it would not help much. The failure is in managements failure to instill quality and workmanship ethics on the production line, rather than time and motion studies — to get them out the door at the least cost. Up to 1977 I had purchased three GM products and dreaded the experience of going back to the dealer for defects, both in workmanship and mechanical defects. I have since purchased only Toyota and Nissan autos, and have yet to return to the dealer except for routine maintenance. The best warranty: one that does not have to be invoked!
American cars weren’t known for quality before. That’s why the Japanese took over in the first place. Detroit boosted their quality in the 80s aand 90s, so the quality levels are much closer now, especially since they just buy their parts from Japan sometimes.
In the early 70’s I worked as a driver at Ford’s Dearborn proving grounds. There were always a bunch of competitor’s cars around, running the same tests, getting the same analysis. Did it help, or did they pay attention? I dunno, but my wife’s 2001 Ford Focus is a damn better car than my Mitsubishi.
Today more U.S. sold Toyotas are made in the U.S. than in any other country. So if you assume that the average U.S. auto worker has the same skills whether they work for G.M. or Toyota then the blame for bad G.M. quality has to fall squarely on the shoulder of G.M. management and its lack of motivating workers to produce better cars.
I agree John. I also drive dozens of rental cars a year. All shiny new american cars. I can’t think of a single one that stood out as a car I would actually want to own.
I’m amazed at the stupidity of the auto unions who congragulate themselves on the insane salarys and benifits they have forced down the automakers throats. There is just something wrong when an unskilled job which requires no education is paying $60,000+ a year.
I predict a slow death of the American auto industry over the next 20 years. Remember when all TV sets were made in America? Try to find one now.
Textile unions were also very successful in raising workers salaries and benifits. Try to find an American made pair of jeans today.
Unions seem to feel that corporations are bottomless pits of money and that it is only through the greed of it’s officers that all employees are not paid extremely high salaries.
I guess I must be an extremely lucky fellow – perhaps the only one in the U.S. We bought a 1987 Olds Delta 88 that ran quite well for just shy of 400,000 miles with one rebuilt (Mr. Goodwrench) trans., 2 timing chains, original engine (3.8 V-6). It got reliably 30-32 mpg on the road with regular gas. We gave to to our granddaughter last year when we bought a new Chevy. She is still driving it. Our new 2004 Impala is roomy, well built and completely trouble free. It gets 18-20 in town and 33-35 on the road with regular gas. It has the 3.6 liter V-6.
I’m 72, a confirmed car nut, and have owned a pot full of both domestic and imports. I do believe that, if properly maintained, most any car will perform reliably over 200,000 miles. I also believe if one keeps a car until it is worn out, the total cost of ownership of Detroit iron is pretty tough to beat.
Harold and BdgBill
Let me get this right. It is the fault of the workers that they wanted decent wages. The fact that the employers shut down American factories and moved them to slave wage countries has nothing to do with it? Only American workers are greedy. The slave wages and conditions in Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, China, Pakistan, and where ever else your shirts are made, are not because of the benevolence of the American factory owners.
Do you really think Toyota or Honda build cars in North America? Bull crap they do. They import the parts and ASSEMBLE them here. Do you really think Japanese quality is so superior to American made autos? Again, bull crap.
Do you want to know why TVs aren’t made in America? Price. It is cheaper to make them in Korea, Singapore, or Mexico then in the US. That sure doesn’t mean that they are any better, but guess what. Instead of having your TV repaired, they just replace it because they cost too little to fix.
Do you think there might be some bias in quality rankings? Darn tooting there is. A few years ago the Nissan Quest was compared to the Mercury Villager by Consumer Reports. The Villager was ranked as fair while the Quest got good ratings. They were the same vehicle made in the same plant by the same workers under the same management with only minor cosmetic differences. The same bias shows in J.D. Powers listings.
Now, does the American auto makers build boring cars? No. They build cars for the masses. Even Toyota’s Camry or Honda’s Accord are as boring and staid as the competition. The Mazda Miata is an exciting little thing. It is also a niche market that is not in Ford or GM’s economic interest to fill. Even the high priced Chevy Corvette is a break even venture that is in risk of shutting down. Most imports today try to fill the small markets that either have little profit or few sales, the markets the Americans don’t cater to.
I am a Quality Manager – yes, it’s my job to insure product quality and that nothing crappy gets to the customer (not automotive, however). I also am the Chair of the American Society for Quality in the area where I’m from.
One thing that is for sure is this: American companies may tout quality, but in the end, it is just words. “Quality is job one!” My foot it is; CEO pay is number one.
The US car industry uses TS 16949:2000 quality standard for all of its suppliers. However, it is a “do as I say, not as I do” approach. Not that a quality standard is all you need. I used to work for an OEM paint manufacturer. I have seen their specifications to the suppliers, and in the end they want high quality at rock-bottom prices. Sorry, in the end you get one or the other, and not both. That’s why you have foreign parts in American cars – cheaper labor and quality. The bottom line is what counts most.
Even with the “employee pricing” in place last year, the bottom line is that the US company cars were still more expensive than foreign of the same type. I looked and compared.
Take some foreign makers – Hyundai for example. They have a warranty that has no comparison in US standards (maybe if you PAY for an extended warranty..) Hyundai is putting their money where their mouth is – you can’t afford a long-term warranty if you are going to keep paying for problems, can you? What’s an American car – 3 year/36,000? I’ve got 154,000 miles on my Hyundai, and all total I may have put $2,000 into it (tires, brakes, radiator). That’s it.
My friends drive Fords with transmission problems, Dodge’s with persistent oil leaks from the crankcase.
Japanese companies don’t look to ISO 9001, TS 16949, or other supposed “banners of quality.” They just do it.
Shawn
I too work in Quality. I too have seen many horror stories. Unfortunately you gave yourself away by mentioning your affiliation with the American Society of Quality. I was a member. I even passed my QE test first time around. That was back in 1983, when it was called the American Society of Quality Control. I gave it up because of the bull crap the ASQ has about promoting only one single agenda to the detriment of others. Yup, I’m talking about Six Sigma. Total ripped off bull crap. The only people Six Sigma has helped are the two “inventors” and all those “consultants”. Why the ASQ would promote the most destructive “plan” around is beyond me. If your job is to see that nothing “crappy” gets to the consumer, you don’t know what your job as a Quality Manager is really all about.
Both ISO 9000:2000 and TS 16949 are business plans. They are not Quality plans. A true Quality professional knows the difference. Any business plan is only as good as the faith and effort put into it by EVERYONE.
I just retired a 1991 Pontiac Grand Am with 256,000 miles on it. Total repairs, less then $2500, excluding the air which I didn’t bother fixing. I have a Pontiac Bonneville in the garage with over 225,000 on it that needs a gasket on the tranny and an ignition part. Total repairs to date, less then $3000, though the engine was rebuilt at 70,000 because the oil change guy forgot to tighten the filter. Brother-in-law has a 1996 Toyota pickup. It is a rusted out, gutless, noisy, hard riding piece of crap with less then 50,000 miles.
My main ride is a 2001 Ford Taurus. Great car, comfortable, rides well, quiet, decent sound system, good gas mileage, and lots of power. To date, replaced a bad battery. My wife loves her 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan. Great view, very good mileage, very comfortable on long trips, plenty of room, easily seats six adults quite comfortably, excellent ventilation system, and enough power to do the job. Now what imports could you suggest that will cost me less then $20k and $27,500 respectively that would match these cars?
Now I guess that some of you would have us believe that every vehicle made by the Japanese is fantastic. My guess is you are half blind. Toyota and Honda make some of the ugliest cars on the road. An honest check of their true quality and cost of use would show the American made cars are equivalent or superior with their total cost of ownership being less then the import.
Hyundai? Through government assistance they can afford to import their cars cheaply. I bought a Hyundai Pony when they first brought them over back in 1987. The absolute worse car I ever owned. Has Hyundai improved any? I hope so, they couldn’t get any worse. I doubt they pay their workers any more either. BTW, Korea doesn’t allow the import of foreign cars into Korea. And for great imported cars, remember the Daewoo from Korea?
#4 Bob, I agree with you.
#5 AB CD, you’re right too.
There is a differrence between decent wages and exorbatant wages. My father was in management (in the accounting area) for the auto industry. He came home one day and told me there are people who come into work and all they do is torque bolts and they make more than he does. That person has more benefits, etc. and only has a high school education. Not only that, you can’t fire them. Now I am suppose to come home and tell my sons they need an education to make themselves better.
Mr. Laudig, you are right that if you maintain an automobile you should receive 200k miles. My problem was that my American car(s) were in the shop all of the time to the point I called them “shop cars”. I am talking about the last 30 years. In 1992 I finally went Japanese and bought a 91 Nissan Maxima and I haven’t look to the USA since. I changed the oil, one set of tires, and changed the timing belt and then I traded it in for 1999 Maxima (at 160k). It is 2006 and all I have had to do is change the oil (this one has a timing chain). My experience changed my father’s attitude (he bought my mother an Altima) and with more surprise my oldest brother finally bought Japanese, which I couldn’t believe. My father’s reasoning was the same as mine, every few months my mother’s car was in the shop for one reason or another. I have to admit I did buy American again but that was my father’s truck a month before he died but I still have the Nissan. Two months afterward I went in to have the “Chevy” serpetine belt changed at 62k and they said “the pulley was defective” so I had to pay to replace a “defective” pulley, labor, and the belt. Since then I have had to put in another 1k into it. It’s not just the money, it’s also the time and aggravation. Put that all together you will find quality elsewhere. I am glad you liked your Delta 88 because that is one of the car companies my father worked for a long time ago.
#12 Shawn, you forgot to mention ISO 17025. Yeah, I agree with what you said but you forgot to mention that Hyundai has come along way since the late 1980’s when their quality was subpar. Does your employer say anything abou that Hyundai you drive?
This may seem like an odd comment, but one main reason I don’t buy North American cars is that it’s almost impossible to find one with a stick shift unless it’s a muscle car, and both my wife and I hate automatic transmissions….I drive a Honda Civic and she has a new Hyundai Tucson, and both are stick shifts….
Steve;
While I doubt you’d spend an extra $10,000 in repairs for buying an American truck (although not impossible, considering some of the American cars I’ve owned), consider the two following points:
1) Toyotas and Hondas have a much higher resale value than their equivalent American cars. This is especially true for trucks. I looked for a used Toyota truck and the owners were all asking a fortune, and they usually got it.
2) How much is your time worth if your American truck breaks down on a regular basis? How much are you willing to pay for your inconvenience? If your American truck breaks down in the middle of rush hour on your way to an important meeting on a hot, sunny day, what is the more likely scenario: You’ll be swearing like a sailor and screaming at your car while fellow commuters finger you on their way by, or you’ll be thinking, “Wow, I’m so glad I saved all that money!”
I have owned two honda accords and they both died around 160,000 miles. It seems to me from my experience and research that how a car is treated makes the difference. I bought both of these cars at ten years old or so. Also the quality of the mechanic’s work who services the vehicles matters. My dad bought a Pontiac 1988( I think) and it lasted to slightly over 200,000 miles. He bought it brand new and either it was a stroke of great luck or he took care of it well.