Newsweek magazine, which has given us many of the most damaging deceptions about America in recent years (remember the “Koran-Down-the-Toilet” hoax?), now weighs in with a pretentious and embarrassingly ignorant cover story, “We Are All Socialists Now.” To be sure, the basic theme–that the huge “stimulus” and the big big big TARP is leading once-capitalist America down the dangerous road to socialism–is not limited to the skinny weekly.
[…]
There’s a element of truth to the basic theme (although not to the headline): the state is getting more and more deeply involved in business, even taking controlling interests in some private companies. And the state is even trying to “make policy” for private companies they do not control, but merely “help” with “infusions of capital,” as in the recent call for salary caps for certain CEOs. So state power is growing at the expense of corporations.But that’s not socialism. Socialism rests on a firm theoretical bedrock: the abolition of private property. I haven’t heard anyone this side of Barney Frank calling for any such thing. What is happening now–and Newsweek is honest enough to say so down in the body of the article–is an expansion of the state’s role, an increase in public/private joint ventures and partnerships, and much more state regulation of business. Yes, it’s very “European,” and some of the Europeans even call it “social democracy,” but it isn’t.
It’s fascism. Nobody calls it by its proper name.
[…]
In both countries, however, its most durable consequence was the expansion of the ability of the state to give orders to more and more citizens, in more and more corners of their lives.
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#40 – Dallas
#40 – Dallas
No – it is not my fault. I do not defend either party. They are both greedy lying bastards.
Mark my words – the Dems will abuse their power. History always repeats itself. And is rewritten by the victors.
For example, in 2010/12 the Dems will be saying that while we have not created 3 million jobs, they saved us from impending doom. Just like the Repugs could not hand us a victory in the War On Terror, but they saved us from impending doom.
Just give them your liberties, property and money. They will protect you and do everything in your best interest. No more bad times they promise.
(sorry about the repeat – hit tab/enter while typing for some reason)
Dallas in their infinite wisdom (funny).
“WIkipedia: Fascists aim to create a single-party state in which the government is led by a dictator who seeks unity by requiring individuals to subordinate self-interest to the collective interest of the nation, a race or even a social class”
So Obomba gets into office and promptly starts taking things over like healthcare. Funny his posters before the election looked like the ones from communists of yesteryear. Sure sounds like a movement towards a dictatorship.
Where are all the pinhead fucktards on this blog that posted that George Bush would find a way to stay in office and not allow elections? It seems that they are quiet now because like so much of the other shit they post they were wrong.
Also, transparency is what he (The Messiah Obomba) promised and he promised the Porkulus bill would be on the Internet for review 48 hours BEFORE Congress voted. Lied again didn’t he?
Both sides have sold us and our children down the river and all we are doing about it is arguing on JCD’s blog.
Sad indeed……..
#4 Dallas:
“We actually prevented a going down a fascist road.
No more Dick Cheney
[…]
“WIkipedia: Fascists aim to create a single-party state in which the government is led by a dictator who seeks unity by requiring individuals to subordinate self-interest to the collective interest of the nation, a race or even a social class””
This sounds *exactly* like the Progressive agenda.
#46 geezba.
Great comment and link. This is exactly the reason I come to this blog, go get new insight.
Thanks!
One more dead angry liberal doesn’t mean shit to me.
#53–arpie==with all that reading==which system do you think provides the most and the least for “most people” if its principles are followed as closely as possible. Include capitalism?
What other systems could also be compared? Barter?
# 54 bobbo said, “What other systems could also be compared? Barter?”
Free market sans banking capitalism.
We can’t go fascist right now. The private sector is shell shocked and has wet its pants. The government is running awkwardly over to help. The necessary preconditions are there, though. Big business has entirely captured the regulatory functions of government. Fascism can’t start until biz, on a big scale, get’s its groove back.
46: Good graph and explanation, but both are incomplete.
At the top of the X axis should be authoritarian rather than totalitarian. Plenty of governments tend toward authoritarianism, but totalitarianism (Nazism and Stalinism) are pretty few and far between. Authoritarian governments can, for awhile, stray into totalitarianism but it is not a possible extended state for a government. Totalitarian regimes can’t exist for a long time because so many people get killed. Eventually the government loses effective control.
Fascism is an authoritarian regime that bends toward private ends. Krupp and IG Farben began preparations for WWII shortly after WWI. Hitler was an evil man, but he was made by the German industrialists rather than the other way around.
Communism is an authoritarian regime that bends to political ends. Stalin took control of an already centralized economy and slammed it into overdrive.
So totalitarianism can be reached by either a leftist or rightist extreme authoritarian regime. It does not belong anywhere along the normal continuum of governance however.
The uber rich will do whatever it takes to maintain their power and lifestyle. It seems to me that a partnership with government is the preferred way of doing this. So we are heading more towards a sort of corpocracy, where the government is simply an apparatus to facilitate the wealth creation of the uber rich. In this sense it deviates from fascism in that power is concentrated within the corporate world, which largely transcends political borders and thus the state.
The old left / right dichotomy was always a bit vague and doesn’t seem to be all that relevant any more.
Man, there are some good posts in this commentary. I should have waited before posting my stupid #15 off-the-cuff comment. This string is a keeper! Thanks to y’all for some great, intelligent contributions.
As #51 said, this is why I come here.
First of all, kudos to all on the overall civil tone of this thread. Hard to find on the interwebitubes these days.
# 59 bobbo:
I apologize I did not get the gist of your question, to me it did sound like you were defining them as mutually exclusive.
Analogies are always limited. The point of my analogy was picking a “favorite restaurant” from a group of items that are related to restaurants but not any of them an actual restaurant. I guess it wasn’t clear.
AFAIK, pipe dreams are an idea that could never be attained, not necessarily positive but rather an idea that some people would like to have, but alas it can’t be.
I don’t really have an answer for what is “bad” or “good” or “not bad”. I think many systems could work… or not. A lot depends on the people on “average” and also a lot can depend on powerful individuals. So I can’t really say that I think this system is better than another one.
My pipe dream is a world where there’s a baseline so that basic needs of everyone are met (food, shelter, health, security, education) but that allows individuals with developed potential, drive and dedication to excel and reap rewards above the others (not necessarily in physical goods or property alone). Maybe a mix of the “social credit” system and “adhocracy”.
> Of course, no pure form of any system exists and all systems need regulation to prevent their own excesses
Agreed.
The signs are all there that we are being led into a fascist state. Wells Fargo had it’s arm twisted hard to accept the government blood money. The hastily written and congress approved “stimulus” bill is riddled with laws and conditions of government demands that no one was given a chance to read. Opposition was silenced and ignored. The congressional report saying the bill would worsen the economy was dismissed. Americans are clueless as our tax cheat evil genius treasurer works behind the scenes.
States have frantically begun to submit resolutions affirming states rights based on the tenth amendment when it was revealed the stimulus laws may have dire consequences. The stage is now set. We’ve been taken for our money and our freedom. change=fascism
IMHO, everything is going as planned.