Obama gave some details. McCain didn’t give any, although he mentioned (without details) buying up bad mortgages. Didn’t we do that last week?
Discuss.
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#92 – brm
>>Yeah, well, no one knows what kind of punishment you
>>get inside Gitmo, so what’s the prob?
You’re losing credibility by the minute.
Most people are clamoring for affordable health insurance, and you’re fighting for the right to refuse it, even if it’s free?
Do you have rifles and 10 years’ worth of canned tuna buried in your back yard, or what?
When you are cornered with a tough accusation, feign outrage at the verbage then ignore the question.
Politics. I am so sick of politics.
#86, No. I still don’t understand. If parents can’t afford health insurance for their children (which seems to be the only reason they would not have it), they can get it for free. Do you understand that?
Actually, it isn’t free. I have to pay for it. And I have my own kids to pay for, I don’t need to pay for someone else’s.
There’s a reason they call him Obamanation. We’re so far in debt in right now it isn’t funny and he wants to spend more money. Johnny-C isn’t any better, though.
#88, All the small business owners I know are voting for Obama.
Why, MM, I’m saddened that you don’t consider yourself as knowing me.
I’m not voting for him and neither are any of the fifteen in my SBG . . . or my Chamber of Commerce.
#90, Talk about crawfishing!
#95, Most people are clamoring for affordable health insurance, and you’re fighting for the right to refuse it, even if it’s free?
Actually, everybody is clamoring for it. However, like a poor marksman, you keep missing the point. Costs will go UP if Obama has his way. And there is no such thing as free healthcare. Somebody has to pay for it. Probably your kids.
You want to see Free Healthcare, visit a VA hospital.
Do you have rifles and 10 years’ worth of canned tuna buried in your back yard, or what?
Hey! You used that same line on me once. Just like a liberal, sounding like a broken record.
#95 Mustard:
“Most people are clamoring for affordable health insurance, and you’re fighting for the right to refuse it, even if it’s free?”
That’s exactly right. I’m fighting for the right to refuse it because it’s my right to do so.
It doesn’t even matter if my reasons make sense. Coercion is not American, even if it’s coercion into doing something for one’s own good.
A big huge reason why I would refuse gov’t healthcare to purchase my own, besides not wanting to be a freeloader, is that I don’t want some government agency having access to my medical history.
Another valid reason: say I’m a natural medicine nut, and the health insurance doesn’t cover purchasing herbs from the local co-op. My private insurance certainly doesn’t allow this. But, say I believe in the stuff, and I want to spend my health-care money on this crap. Why should I be forced to buy health insurance that won’t support it, or be forced to forfeit a tax refund because I don’t want to use Western medicine?
Personally, I think natural medicine is a bunch of BS, but I believe that it’s wrong for me to deprive someone else of making that choice. Hey, they might find something that works.
How is this fair?
#79 – LL
>>You want to see Free Healthcare, visit a VA hospital.
Well, until Dumbya cut the funding and sent the VA into the crapper, the VA hospital system was pretty good. During the Clinton years, I had the opportunity to visit the ones in San Diego, West Haven, and several others, and they were clean, well-maintained, and all the patients were happy (as happy as they could be, in the hospital). I understand now that Dumbya’s in charge, many of them are shit-holes. That’s more a reflection on Dumbya than it is on the VA system.
>>Hey! You used that same line on me once
Well, you keep saying the same thing. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
#98 – brm
>>That’s exactly right. I’m fighting for the right to
>>refuse it because it’s my right to do so.
Do you pull out that line when you go to register your car and they ask if you have auto insurance? Or when they tell you to get your kids innoculated before they can go to school?
>>A big huge reason why I would refuse gov’t
>>healthcare to purchase my own
Well, if you purchase your own, then you’ve got nothing to worry about. You’re already covered. The freebies are for those who can’t afford to purchase their own. There’s no coeercion here, other than making sure that children have adequate access to health care. However that’s accomplished is fine with the gummint.
>>I don’t want some government agency having access
>>to my medical history.
Is that any worse than the for-profit insurance agencies who may “share” your medical records with your employer, or deny you continuing coverage because they find out you have some condition they don’t want to cover?
>>say I’m a natural medicine nut, and the health
>>insurance doesn’t cover purchasing herbs from the
>>local co-op.
Use your flexible spending account. And even the most rabid natural medicine nut realizes that herbs and grasses don’t do much for a gunshot wound or a broken neck.
I’d actually be in favor of allowing people to opt out of the insurance plan if they were that opposed to it, but if their children needed expensive medical care, they would be held liable for every last cent, and their wages would be garnisheed down to poverty level until the whole debt was paid off. For somebody making $30,000/yr, a $150,090 hospital bill would be a guaranteed lifetime in the poorhouse.
#99, You must think pretty highly of Bush to think he is directly responsible for so much misery. I mean, seriously, how much damage can one man really do?
I suppose you think Walter Reed was an isolated incident?
Well, you keep saying the same thing. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
But only to you because you are too much of a knuckle-head to see the truth. My college professors said you had to tell students something three times before they learned it. With you, I’m on 300 and you still refuse to see the light. Sometimes I think you stick your fingers in your ears and yell, “LA LA LA LA LA!” to keep from hearing the truth.
Where are we going to get the money for these programs you keep supporting?
The freebies are for those who can’t afford to purchase their own.
They aren’t free. Where are we going to get the money?
I’d actually be in favor of allowing people to opt out of the insurance plan
Would you be opposed to people opting out of the taxes needed to fund it, too?
For somebody making $30,000/yr, a $150,090 hospital bill would be a guaranteed lifetime in the poorhouse.
You could always let them live with you until they got back on their feet.
Wow, FREE health insurance! How does that work, no one charges for anything, subprime health plan?
Oh I forgot, as defined by Curious Barack anything from the gvmt is FREE FREE FREE because none of his supporters pay taxes.
Yep, that means you!
#100 Mustard:
“Do you pull out that line when you go to register your car and they ask if you have auto insurance? Or when they tell you to get your kids innoculated before they can go to school?”
If I didn’t want to buy car insurance, I could choose to not drive. The problem with mandatory health insurance is that YOU HAVE NO CHOICE.
“There’s no coeercion”
Yes, there is. A penalty for not purchasing health insurance is the very definition of coercion.
“Is that any worse than the for-profit insurance agencies”
Yes, it is. At least I can choose among for-profit insurance agencies, or if there are none who will respect my privacy, I CAN CHOOSE TO NOT PURCHASE IT AT ALL!
“Use your flexible spending account.”
I want to use cash. I don’t want them knowing what meds I’m buying.
“And even the most rabid natural medicine nut realizes that herbs and grasses don’t do much for a gunshot wound or a broken neck.”
You’ve apparently never hung out with extreme natural health crazies.
“but if their children needed expensive medical care, they would be held liable for every last cent”
This makes sense. Ever go into the hospital with no insurance? You actually have to pay for it, unless you cut a deal with the hospital, which is essentially a contract between private parties with no government intervention. Which I am in favor of.
I honestly don’t understand why you think freedom of choice, which includes the choice to take no action, is such a bad thing.
#94 Mustard:
“No, but we can fine them (and much worse) for starving their children.”
What planet are you living on? Who gets a FINE for starving a child? People go to jail for that. There is already a system in place for punishing these people as criminals.
And how many of these freaks in the news found with starved children didn’t feed the kid because they had no money? Zero? It’s impossible to starve in America because you’re poor.
People who need food stamps should just get another JOB. (anecdotally, everyone I know who has ever taken food stamps was just simply lazy and unwilling to work.)
#101-2 – LL
>>They aren’t free. Where are we going to get the
>>money?
Once we climb out of the hole Dumbya has dug for us, we can use money that should be going towards improving the quality of life for Americans (you know, taxes?) instead of pissing it away on trophy wars, Dick Cheney’s war profiteering pals, government bailouts, etc.
>>You must think pretty highly of Bush to think he
>>is directly responsible for so much misery. I
>>mean, seriously, how much damage can one man
>>really do?
Take a look around you, son. I think the answer to that question is self-evident.
>>I suppose you think Walter Reed was an isolated
>>incident?
No, I think Dumbya and his policies drove the whole VA system into the shitter. He has plenty of money to send kids off the get blown up, but when it comes to putting them back together again, the money spigot gets shut off.
#103 – web
>>Wow, FREE health insurance! How does that work, no
>>one charges for anything, subprime health plan?
Do you have any idea how insurance works?? Pooled risk?? And as to the people for whom it’s “free”, it’s like welfare or food stamps.
>>Curious Barack
Yeah, those blue-gum jigaboos are so nutty, aren’t they? I’ll bet you Aryan Nation guys will be mobilizing for the elections, to make sure no darkies get elected.
#104 – brm
>>I honestly don’t understand why you think freedom of
>>choice, which includes the choice to take no action,
>>is such a bad thing.
I honestly don’t understand why you think requiring parents to adequately care for their children is such a bad thing. Most people welcome this. That’s why Obama is ahead (and pulling even further ahead) in the polls, and why he’s going to be elected on November 4th.
You’re free to take as shitty care of yourself as you wish. When you have children, though, it’s incumbent upon you to care for them, until they are able to care for themselves. If you choose not to, steps must be taken to insure that they are cared for.
#105 – brm
>>anecdotally, everyone I know who has ever taken food
>>stamps was just simply lazy and unwilling to work.
That doesn’t surprise me. I can only imagine the quality of your acquaintances.
On the other hand, I know a number of people who have fallen on hard times, through no fault of their own, and who have had to accept food stamps or welfare until they could get back on their feet again. Not everyone is like your circle of friends, who make a living off gaming the system and staying on food stamps and welfare generation after generation.
we can use money that should be going towards improving the quality of life for Americans (you know, taxes?)
You crack me up. Who is going to pay the taxes? The “rich” people sure aren’t. They’ll just hide it and the middle-class will be hit again and the poor will be moved out to make room for urban renewal. They didn’t get rich playing fair. And as long as they have money they will lobby to ensure their money stays hidden. Obama won’t get a red cent.
Welfare systems instill God-like feelings in one group of people and dependency in another. Welfare won’t work as long it is controlled by those who don’t contribute. Regulation will never work because there is too much money to be had. If there are $100 to be had, it is in the best interest of someone to spend up to $100 to get it because any “getting” is above what you spent. That is the nature of the beast.
These social programs you like so much are already the largest part of the budget. And it hasn’t worked yet. What makes you think it will work just by throwing more money at it?
This isn’t a rhetorical question. Ike, Kennedy, Carter, Clinton — Do you think Obama is going to accomplish something they couldn’t?
When you have children, though, it’s incumbent upon you to care for them, until they are able to care for themselves.
And, as pointed out, there are laws to cover that. However, what you are proposing is putting a gun to people’s heads and forcing them to do your bidding. You laughed when I called you a Nazi, but that is what you are, thinking like this. What are you going to do when there isn’t any more money? Invade Canada?
If you choose not to, steps must be taken to insure that they are cared for.
You could care for them in your house until their parents learned how to do it.
Seriously, you need to read a book called, “Free To Choose.” If you really want to see a non-biased historical perspective on these subjects, you should read it.
I remember when I first read it, I opened turned the first page thinking it was going to be a slam on the liberals. In fact, the first few pages were in their defense. However, as I followed their lead, I began to see the fallacy in the whole welfare system, no matter who was in office.
If you want to talk logically about the state of the union and not with your heart, you should read this book. Because the only fact you can present to justify these programs is, “it’s the right thing to do.” No talk about how it will work or anything except, “raise taxes.” Until you get some new material, you will continue to lose these arguments.
>>I suppose you think Walter Reed was an isolated incident?
No, I think Dumbya and his policies drove the whole VA system into the shitter.
That’s because you don’t pay attention to what’s going on around you.
#108 Mustard:
“I honestly don’t understand why you think requiring parents to adequately care for their children is such a bad thing.”
Of course I think parents should be held accountable for taking care of their children.
I just think your definition of “adequate” is too broad to be worth the trade-offs in personal freedom and growth of government. It’s not like children are dying in the streets – for crying out loud, they’re actually overfed.
You’d probably find very, very few people who consider the medical care given to children in America less than adequate. Health care is, like anything else, scarce – you just can’t provide the absolute best health care to every single person. It just can’t be done.
If there were kids walking around with unset bones and open wounds, yeah, I might agree with you a little.
#109 Mustard:
“Not everyone is like your circle of friends, who make a living off gaming the system and staying on food stamps and welfare generation after generation.”
Well, it sure seems that way.
Mccain is boiling with anger. He actually reminded me a lot of Don Rickles except Mccain is for real. Also, he basically is an elitist who grew up with privilege and thinks the little guy is like an ant to be stepped on.