Millions demonstrate supporting the secular state

Turkish prosecutors have indicted 86 secular Turks on terrorism charges for their alleged involvement in plots to topple the Islamic-rooted government.

Aykut Cengiz Engin said the suspects, believed to include at least one former general and an opposition politician, were charged either with belonging to a terrorist organisation, or of provoking a military coup.

A court must now decide within two weeks whether to open the case.

The suspects accuse the government of eroding Turkey’s secular laws and making too many concessions to Christian and Kurdish minorities as part of the nation’s bid to join the European Union.

It doesn’t get more complicated than this…

The indictment is seen as the latest episode in an ongoing power struggle between the government and secular groups supported by the military and other state institutions…

Forty-eight of the suspects have been jailed.

In another court case, Erdogan’s government is facing possible closure by the constitutional court for alleged anti-secular activity.

The last thing democrats and others opposing theocracy need is right-wing trigger-happy generals “showing them how to do it”. On the other hand, this may be a phony “plot” concocted by the Erdogan government as a red herring.

Hopefully, the truth will play out in the courts.




  1. lmj3325 says:

    How is “one former general” automatically considered “trigger happy”?

    Typical left-wing rhetoric.

  2. moss says:

    RTFA nutball. Maybe even read some history (gasp).

  3. bobbo says:

    It is complicated. I thought Turkey was secular and google confirms that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

    so—something about the story seems slanted, or google and I are wrong, or==yea, its complicated.

  4. god says:

    Read more than wikidripia, blobbo…

    Turkey’s had 4 coups since WW2, the 1st executed the democratically elected government. I guess that’s why #1 worries about slandering the military. Hanging is OK with him.

    The current government is trying to reverse the secular constitution. And simply being pro-secular government or anti-theocracy doesn’t define the whole political process – especially in the Middle East.

  5. raffi says:

    Turkey’s secularism is smoke and mirrors. Turkey is neither secular nor a democracy. the Military is a constitutional branch of their government. Guess who says what goes….

  6. Turkey is under the same Islamist pressures as all the other Muslim states from Algeria to Kuwait. The thing that has kept its nutballs at bay has been harsh punishment for anti-secular activity. The irony here is that to join the EU they have to back off from the harsh punishments. They back off and then the Islamists make their move. It’s a no won situation for Turkey. This was expected.

  7. bobbo says:

    #6–JCD==thanks. The details certainly escape me but the predicament of a Democracy faced with a religion desire a Theocratic take over is “complicated” indeed. A Clockwork Orange of a dilemma. Can you offer freedom and lack of oppression to those who would deny you the same.

    If I were the EU–I’d send Turkey some torches and tell them when they were Muslim free, they could be admitted. Fair? No. Just god like in judgment.

  8. brendal says:

    #6 – Correct. In trying to become eligible to join the EU, they will make themselves ineligible because they will end up with a De Facto theocracy.

    I’ve been waiting for this for a couple of years.

  9. Jopa says:

    #6 is spot on.
    It is a ridicules situation. Fascist Islam thrives on two things:
    1. Total despair – see Afghanistan.
    2. Liberalism – see the EU, Lebanon.
    The pressure on Turkey and Egypt to become more liberal will bring the same result.

    You have two ways to combat radical Islam and it’s ideology:
    1. Enable democracy to protect itself – Ata Turk (founder of modern turkey) did exactly that, he separated Islam from the state and established harsh rules against any Muslim rule or ambitions – AKA “Anti Secular Activities”.
    2. Enable Radical Islam to go berserk. You’ve seen this happen in Iraq and Algier. When the population finally sees what happens when these thugs go into power, they will resist their cause. Of course, in Iraq, no one “Let” them go berserk – they just had the opportunity to do it.

    The single most important thing is to establish a basic rule that says: People who fundamentally reject democracy, are not entitled to recieve the protection of democracy.

    A democracy should not lose itself to fascism in order to prove that it is a true democracy.

    And PLEASE, don’t start with the “but where do you draw the line?” thing. You draw the line when people preach for the oppression of women, the murder of infidels, the actual disbanding of democratic civil rule and so forth.
    It is a very clear line.

  10. obd123 says:

    This seems to be an orchestrated event by the AK Party government to silence the leading members of the pro-secular movement. The AK Party which has been actively pursuing its anti-secular, religious politics is using its government power to silence the prominent intellectuals, journalists and retired army generals. This reminds me of the Islamist revolution in Iran and how the police state slowly removed and silenced its strong opponents. Unfortunately, it only shows that this religious cancer has spread to all parts of the competing powers within the government. The executive branch (both the prime minister and president are the members of the AK Party), Turkish Army and the legislative branch are all under the influence of the Islamist party that wants to take Turkey backwards. As a citizen, I am watching the recent developments in Turkey with great concern and fear.

    In addition, it is absurd to name this organization or this so called organized coup, Ergenekon, to suggest extreme nationalist ties, even though some of the arrested journalists and the retired army generals have been known to be pro-secular social democrats. But in today’s fear driven culture and politics, off course, it is a good tactic by the government to name their opponents the second most despised evil in Turkey: extreme nationalism.

  11. GregAllen says:

    Are historians going to say that it was a huge mistake for the EU to snub Turkey, pushing them into the arms of the Islamicists?

    Europeans were so worried about letting secular Muslims in the club, they got radical Muslims on their border instead.


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