| Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of hypocrisy. You can fight for the our Constitution, including religious freedoms, but how dare you expect to actually make use of it. | 
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Atheist Soldier Says Army Punished Him
A soldier claimed Wednesday that his promotion was blocked because he had claimed in a lawsuit that the Army was violating his right to be an atheist.
Attorneys for Spc. Jeremy Hall and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation refiled the federal lawsuit Wednesday in Kansas City, Kan., and added a complaint alleging that the blocked promotion was in response to the legal action.
[…]
The lawsuit alleges that Gates permits a military culture in which officers are encouraged to pressure soldiers to adopt and espouse fundamentalist Christian beliefs, and in which activities by Christian organizations are sanctioned.Hall’s attorneys say Fort Riley has permitted a culture promoting Christianity and anti-Islamic sentiment, including posters quoting conservative columnist Ann Coulter and sale of a book, “A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam,” at the post exchange.
> permitted a culture … including posters quoting conservative columnist Ann Coulter and sale of a book, “A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam,” at the post exchange.
You can fight for the our Constitution, including freedom of speech, but how dare you expect to actually make use of it.
“Hall alleges he was denied his constitutional right to hold a meeting to discuss atheism while he was deployed in Iraq with his military police unit.”
This is an example of what is wrong with the legal system. This guys spouts an issue that he says is wrong, but does not explain why the meeting was denied. He is over in Iraq in the middle of a war. Maybe there were some issues that had higher priorities at the moment.
And the military has their hands tied and can’t comment due to the legal issue this guy started.
Finally, using a satirical poster by Ann Coulter to support his case is ludicrous.
I’m not sure which is worse – Al Qaeda from the outside or the laywers from within.
#2, you make some interesting points. More information is needed. However, Ann Coulter’s book is not satire at all. It is in the same way Mein Kampf was satire.
Can someone remove the link the AOG pjs? The pictures fine and humorous, the link is unfunny to me since I live around too many of these knuckleheads who check their brains at the church door. Saul got it wrong and Paul continued to get much wrong too.
Oh, I’ve got to add, even though he doesn’t provide it in this article, there are several instances if not an outright culture of ultra-conservative “Christianity” being pushed by the higher ups in the armed forces. Take a look at such places as http://www.davidbrin.blogspot.com/ for more information on this, do a search. This has been documented lots of places. It appears that the Bush administration is pushing this from the top down and firing those who have different opinions on this matter, such as not pushing conservative “Christian” beliefs whenever they get the chance and putting others whose opinions are more to their liking in their place. This is illegal as well as immoral, especially to real Christians. But that hasn’t stopped Shrub and his handlers before.
Damn you and your fast fingers Uncle Dave, I was going to post this!
Seriously, the military is all about conformity. Any deviation is ground out. It only make sense that minority religions or the lack of a religion would not be tolerated. Heck, they used to kick guys out for having flat feet!
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying it shouldn’t be unexpected.
If the USA officially becomes a “Christian Nation”, as some in Congress want it to be (see H.R. 888), what happens to all the non-Christians there? Move to Canada? The potential brain drain, especially in the sciences, is horrifying to contemplate: you’d lose the 90%+ of the National Academy of Sciences who are not Christians. Just what your economy needs, eh?
This pushing of religion (especially a specific kind of religion) is something that wasn’t around in the Vietnam era (when I was in the Army). It wasn’t around in the late 80s when I was a military contractor either.
Religious fundamentalism (any kind) is absolutely horrendous, as it puts people in the position of having to believe anything in the [sacred book] as [deity]’s truth, when the book itself is often self contradictory (so [deity] must also be self contradictory). When examined closely, fundamentalism falls apart like a house of cards.
People talk about a theocracy taking power, all the while religion is being further marginalized.
Religion truly is the great piece of brainwashing brew-ha-ha that we all thought it could be.
When i was in the Army there was zero preference for any given faith. We had knuckleheads complain because the Unit Chaplian was Catholic or at one Point Babtist. Some went so far as pretending to be satanist just so they could complain about how unfair it was there were no satanic chaplians. I would not put it past the current administration to push a neo con faith on our best and bravest. They have already butchered the constitution in so many other ways this is just one more. Keep up the good fight man.
#2, jbenson
This is an example of what is wrong with the legal system. This guys spouts an issue that he says is wrong, but does not explain why the meeting was denied. He is over in Iraq in the middle of a war. Maybe there were some issues that had higher priorities at the moment.
The military has always reserved time to hold religious services. They even have officers specifically devoted to spreading religiosity and specifically Christianity. In case you are unaware, they call them Chaplains.
As for this being what is wrong with the legal system, you couldn’t be more wrong. This everything our legal system should be. When the government has infringed upon or denied a right to a citizen, the citizen has the right to ask an independent tribunal to intervene and force the government to obey the law.
He doesn’t need to explain why the meeting was denied. All he need do is say that religious groups were granted privileges he wasn’t on. “Why” would be the Pentagon’s defense which would have to show any decisions were not granted with the purpose of discriminating against him.
I’m not sure which is worse – Al Qaeda from the outside or the laywers from within.
The assholes like you that feel American citizens should not have their rights and privileges under the Constitution. It is something called freedom.
Since you support the actions of al Quaeda, I guess that makes you one of them.
But seriously, the fact that the exchange bookstore sells a book that bashes Islam is hardly evidence of religious bias in general.
#13 – ““Why” would be the Pentagon’s defense which would have to show any decisions were not granted with the purpose of discriminating against him.”
This one is going to be easy. “Having an atheist in a deeply religious country could be dangerous for our troops.” Remember when women troops in Saudi Arabia had restrictions placed of their dress. Same thing, same defense. A cake walk.
Maybe his promotion was blocked because he’s a cranky judgmental pain in the arse with a superiority complex.
Not hard to imagine, considering the pseudo-religion he belongs to. 😉
Correction – should have read; “Having an atheist meeting in a deeply religious country could be dangerous for our troops.”
#3 – Can someone remove the link the AOG pjs?
Oh jeez.. How can a link be so… Let me check this out…
(click)
Oh good Christ… That looks like a web page I would build if I were a lobotomized glaze eyed Jesus freak with an unhealthy fixation on children and “bedtime”.
Now I have to scrape my eyes out with a cheese grater.
#5 – The more I read American news the more I begin to understand why there are so many rabid atheists on this group…
Really?!?! Seeing the light now are we?
is the US really becoming a theocracy?
Well.. DUH!
#7 – If the USA officially becomes a “Christian Nation”, as some in Congress want it to be (see H.R. 888), what happens to all the non-Christians there? Move to Canada?
As long as the new Ministry of the United States foots the bill for my relocation to Amsterdam, I’d be happy to go.
What I fell in love with was the grand idea and nobility of the Constitution and the principals it represents. As for the rest of the nation, I don’t have any particular passion or dispassion and frankly, it’s getting a tad too lonely when you have an IQ that is at least 45 points higher than the vast majority of your neighbors and co-workers.
i think i see a new DU logo in the making
#11 – Religion truly is the great piece of brainwashing brew-ha-ha that we all thought it could be.
That really is spelled brouhaha 🙂
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#14 – But seriously, the fact that the exchange bookstore sells a book that bashes Islam is hardly evidence of religious bias in general.
And this guy’s case probably doesn’t actually rely on that. It’s just a detail spoken to the press to give an small illustration of the climate is like.
#19 – That would be a huge fracture point in our culture.
Good. It’s easier to sow the seeds of revolution when the dividing lines in a society are well defined.
It is against Army and DOD regulations to punish or to discriminate against anyone over their religious preference (even if you are a Satanist).
As a U.S. Military service member, you have no Constitutional rights. They are abridged and you are government property. Getting a sunburn can bring you up on charges of destruction of government property.
If he truly believed he was being discriminated against, he could have went to the Inspector General’s office or filed a complaint through the Equal Opportunity Office. This is assuming he wanted the matter resolved in a quick and timely manner.
Attending religious ceremonies is on a “as time permits” basis.
What probably cost this guy his promotion more than anything, was the mere act of a lawsuit against the Army(regardless of what the lawsuit is about).
He needs to prove that he was passed over for promotion due to his religious preference and explain why he did not go to the equal opportunity office or the Inspector General’s office.
Odds are, there’s more to this story than meets the eye and the guy has an ulterior motive. His accusations of promoting a fundamentalist Christian belief are groundless since the Army has had Satanists serving as high up as Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel.
It really sounds like a frivolous lawsuit in which his lawyer is trying to make a name for themself.
Eh. One of my sons got blocked on a promotion, and he’s Catholic (influence from his mother’s side, even if she is a lapsed Catholic).
While I wish them luck, I think that Bush and Co. are equal opportunity fuck-overs.
I guess we will have to wait and see. The data as presented is too little to really form a real opinion of what allegedly happened.
#10, the examples are not similar. By religion is being marginalized, I mean in terms of government policy. Go back a few decades, and it was pretty easy to have prayer in school, while now you see Christmas vacation printed up as winter holidays.
I wonder what they’ll do when they realize that holiday comes from ‘holy day’
#8 I joined the navy in 1970 and when asked what my religion was I told them “none”. That wouldn’t do for them and I was then asked how was I raised, which was lutheran and that was stamped on the dog-tags. My first sunday in boot camp I was asked which service I wanted to attend and when I said none, the CO told me it would be work or a service. For the 12 weeks I was there I attended a different service each week. I thought at the time it was punitive but now I feel I learned a little something about some other religions without having to clean toilets and showers.
#15, patrick,
This one is going to be easy. “Having an atheist in a deeply religious country could be dangerous for our troops.”
Geeze, you are just too easy. I doubt that more than 0.1% of the Americans serving in Iraq are Muslim. That means that 99.9% of the Americans in Iraq are dangerous for our troops.
Effen moran.