Associated Press – October 9, 2007:
“I believe if two people want to commit to each other, God bless ’em,” the syndicated advice columnist told The Associated Press. “That is the highest form of commitment, for heaven’s sake.”
“I’m trying to tell kids if they are gay, it’s OK to be gay. I’ve tried to tell families if they have a gay family member to accept them and love them as they always have,” she said Friday.
“If gay Americans are not allowed to get married and have all the benefits that American citizens are entitled to by the Bill of Rights, they should get one hell of a tax break. That is my opinion,” said Phillips, who speaks with the no-nonsense tone of someone who is used to settling debates.
“If they are my readers, they know how I feel on the subject,” she said. “I don’t think I’m a flaming radical. I’m for civility in life. I’m for treating each other with respect, trying to do the best you can.
#64 – But kids are fair game…
#63 Ben & #64 Me,
Here’s the link to Leviticus 18, the “who you can fuck” section of the O.T. It’s rather amusing reading for a Bible as Humor class.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0318.htm
No, kids are not fair game OhForTheLoveOf! Pervert priests and ministers sleep with kids because they are perverts, not because their religion tells them too.
66. If you read through the epistles (sorry if you already know this, but for anyone that doesn’t, the New Testament consists of 4 gospels which are accounts of Jesus’ life, then a bunch letters by the apostles to various Christian community, written in the early days of Christianity that help explain to people what Jesus meant etc), you’ll find many a long and drawn out arguments over whether or not Christians need to follow the same laws as the Jews (like circumcision and all that). In the end, it was decided that the Christian do not need to follow the same laws as the Jews as they have not entered the same covenant with God as the Jews did. Thus, while Leviticus and Numbers are quality reading (if by ‘quality’ you mean quite booring), they are not particularly binding. Jesus taught that more important than any law fo the Bible, or the ten commandments is that you love God with all your heart and all your mind and all your body and that you love your neighbour as yourself. That is above all else the key to Christanity. Thus anyone who is teaching that God hates fags etc is talking shit; anyone who says they hate muslims or atheist or jews or whatever is talking shit because they all our neighbours. Even if you don’t like them, you should still love them.
#67 – Ben,
Good. Then I doubt you’d have any objection to removing the ten commandments from courthouses and such.
I would be curious to know exactly where Jesus said the bit about throwing out Leviticus though. Since it seems to cause so many problems in our society from people that do indeed still believe the literal word of the bible, despite its self-contradictions, it would be good to be able to cite the particular passage.
More importantly though, I would like to point out that morals have changed (and improved) a lot in the last couple of millennia, though perhaps we’ve got some setbacks in the last 10 or so years. Perhaps it is time to throw out the whole thing now. If the OT was only good for 500 years, why not put the same expiration time on the NT and bury ’em both?
Neither one has a shred of evidence to support it. Both have caused horrible death and destruction. Even if one could legitimately say that this is due to a misinterpretation, the misinterpretation seems quite common and easy to make.
Perhaps it’s time for a new standard that is easier to read and harder to misinterpret. Perhaps a good god would have been clear. Perhaps a good god wouldn’t need to readjust moral standards every generation or two. Perhaps no such creature exists and humans have morals built into most healthy brains and, therefore have no need of a silly old mythology.
#67 – No, kids are not fair game OhForTheLoveOf! Pervert priests and ministers sleep with kids because they are perverts, not because their religion tells them too.
Okay… I just figured with God asking fathers to sacrifice children and conquering solders to rape and murder whole cities that sex with kids wasn’t that far off base.
I mean, God is a pretty sick and twisted sadist…
#69 – OFTLO,
God is a pretty sick and twisted sadist
Actually, incorrect. The representation of the fictional character in the bible certainly meets that definition. But, your statement only works if such a character were actually to exist.
(BTW, this is my idea of near total agreement.)
69. OhForTheLoveOf:
Ahh… I think you misread me there… God punished the sodomites because the raped…. he didn’t tell them too. Now God did, however, ask Abraham to sacrifice his son but didn’t let him actually carry it out (at least not the modern version, it wouldn’t surprise if there are earlier version of the story where he did have to make good on his promise.
Either way, you are certainly correct that either God, or our understanding of God, is pretty sadistic. Why this is, I don’t know. From a parent’s perspective, I’d hazard a guess that its the same reason why I will sit idly by and watch my two year climb up on the sofa only to fall of it. Its not sadism, its simply because its a good way for her to learn (even if it seems sadistic to her that I let her climb knowing she will fall). But then, being a parent is different from being omnipotent, so I can’t say I really know… that is just a guess.
Still, not only is God sadistic at times (aside from the gore in the old Testament, look what he does to his own son….) but he often seems to be hardest on his own followers (like the Jews being enslaved and wandering through the desert, Johna being swallowed by a whale, the apostles and all them being murdered).
BTW, that was my idea of near total agreement too 😀
68. Misanthropic Scott
Yes, do feel free to ditch the 10 commandments from your courtrooms. Certainly they don’t do that here in the UK, nor do they do it Canada and if someone was to suggest that they do it in either country I’d be the first to complain. I don’t believe that evangelizing is the same as annoying people, nor do I believe that evangelizing means shoving something down someone’s throat.
For what at least at first glance looks like a good article (mostly about circumcision but it was kinda of a test case all the old jewish laws and traditions) try: http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/glass1/
Not that it is much use arguing at all with fundamentalists of any type, because they aren’t really interested in what anyone else has to say, but a really good tack is the whole ‘Bible is the literal truth thing’. Now, if you are Muslim, that makes some sense because Allah spoke directly to Mohammed and told him to write down what he was saying. This is part of the reason why Muslims are encouraged to learn to read the Qu’arn in Arabic. However, the Christian Bible is a series of documents that were decided over a long period of time (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament). Nowhere in the New Testament is the New Testament proclaimed as the writings of God himself. The New Testament is a collection of writing from the apostles who where, although inspired by God and saints in their own right, still had their shortcomings as well. Not all Christians believe in the fundamental truth of every word in the Bible. Indeed, this is why both the Catholic Church and the Church of England (amongst many others) do not subscribe to creationism and find no conflict between the scientific understanding of Darwinism and the stories of Genesis.
If you are looking for a manual that will give you specific and details instructions on how to live, while at the same time giving you total understanding of God, then the Bible is not for you. If you want to read some good stories that explain some insight that religious people have had about God then its a kinda interesting read (but there are probably more relevant texts out there to).
If you believe, as I do, that Jesus was on to something when he said that it doesn’t really matter who you fuck, whether you are rich or poor, fat or skinny, good looking or ugly, a thief by trade or a soldier by trade or a computer prorgammer there is something out there that knows you and all your faults anyway but loves you just the same, then the Bible starts to take on real meaning. For some people (like myself) this comes a great comfort and the truth of that mind boggling. Other people (like you) don’t give a shit, which is fine. If God wanted everyone to believe in him he could snap his fingers and everyone would; he is omnipotent after all. At the end of the day, the only really important key teaching of Jesus is that you love God with all your heart and all your mind and all your body and all your soul and that you love your neighbour as you love yourself.
If you are filled with this love of God and your neighbour, you don’t steal, you don’t fuck children, you don’t do all sorts of things not because of some fear of punishment but because it just not the right thing to do. Many people have this love in their heart, and avoid stealing and all that without ever having the slightest belief in God. Not everyone needs religion to have morals.
Anyway, I hope that makes sense. Like I said, I am not out to convert the world, but I do think that some people get some funny ideas about Christianity (often because Christianity has some funny followers). I get the feeling that the US is particularly blighted by having a very strong fundamentalists movement. In my not always so humble opinion they often seem to be more interested in following Christianity as a doctrine that must be adhered to all costs, rather than a religion and a way of trying to gain a greater understanding of God.
Certainly, I see no reason why Christianity can’t be open to new forms of morality. There are somethings which are core to Christianity, like charity, love for your neighbour and that sorta thing, but I see no reason why, for example, the natives of Hawaii couldn’t have continued to live in polyamourous society that was still totally consistent with the teachings of Christ. Similarly, I see no reason why Christian homosexuals couldn’t get married. Sometimes its hard to extract the culture from the religion.
Anyway, I have gone off long enough. If that article on circumcision doesn’t have the quotes you need, let me know and I’ll see what else I can find….
gay sex rocks.
i do it alll the time..
and it feels mighty fineeeee.
=D