U.S. Aims To Lure Insurgents With ‘Bait’
A Pentagon group has encouraged some U.S. military snipers in Iraq to target suspected insurgents by scattering pieces of “bait,” such as detonation cords, plastic explosives and ammunition, and then killing Iraqis who pick up the items, according to military court documents.
The classified program was described in investigative documents related to recently filed murder charges against three snipers who are accused of planting evidence on Iraqis they killed.
“Baiting is putting an object out there that we know they will use, with the intention of destroying the enemy,” Capt. Matthew P. Didier, the leader of an elite sniper scout platoon attached to the 1st Battalion of the 501st Infantry Regiment, said in a sworn statement.
An interesting use of language here:
“It’s our job out here to lay people down who are doing bad things,” Spec. Joshua L. Michaud testified in Iraq in July, discussing the unit’s numerous casualties. “I don’t want to call it revenge, but we needed to find a way so that we could get the bad guys the right way and still maintain the right military things to do.”
These snipers are accused of planting evidence and murder. But does the use of bait, which can be picked up by innocents who are then shot, rise to the level of a war crime?
U.S. sniper ‘bait and kill’ tactics may be a war crime
The baiting program should be rigorously examined, says Eugene Fidell, the president of the National Institute of Military Justice, because it raises frightening possibilities.
“In a country that is awash in armaments and magazines and implements of war,” he said, “if every time somebody picked up something that was potentially useful as a weapon, you might as well ask every Iraqi to walk around with a target on his back.”
#30 Can you give us a link to something debunking the 1 million civilian casualties long ago? I found this link that the estimate was just released this month. http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78
A Pentagon group has encouraged some U.S. military snipers in Iraq to target suspected insurgents by scattering pieces of “bait,” such as detonation cords, plastic explosives and ammunition, and then killing Iraqis who pick up the items, according to military court documents.
This is a complicated military technique known as the “Quake III: Deathmatch Technique”.
3 million LAN Party attendants can’t be wrong…
dunno… they should really be putting money on the ground (coins, so they dont blow away in the wind) and then dropping cluster bombs onto the area when people gather around.
that’d be cooler
#30 – Phillep
Will you EVER make a relevant or intelligent statement? Something that can’t be ‘debunked’ in one single breath?
And the estimates placing the civilian casualties at over 1 million? Debunked long ago.
OK, so let’s assume the casualties are overestimated by 2/3 (66%). That still leaves over 330,000 dead civilians since the Bush administration lied the USA into war. I feel so much better now. 330,000 dead civilians is sure better than a million.
Phillep. Just out of curiosity, what is your military service record? You sound like you are the right age for serving in the military. If you are not, or have not, what is your excuse?
(Before you ask, I did serve… 8 years)
#23, chcknhwk03
Your whole post is crap. You plagiarized once again without citing. No wonder you’re kicked out of school. I do hope your stint as a grunt will teach you something about life.
Have you ever posted a thought of your own?
#34, Awake,
(Before you ask, I did serve… 8 years)
Thank you.
Several times I called people out for claiming military service. Usually they feel they have some “right” or special deposition earned by their service. You, sir, have never taken that course and I salute you for that.
Billabong – My afternoon class was canceled and I had some free time.
There is a good article by Christopher Hitchens on why dissolving the Iraqi Army was a good idea. It lacks the sensationalism, but presents an interesting argument.
http://www.slate.com/id/2174047/
bobbo – the U.S. knows what they are doing out there. Another layer to that “catch and release” program is the newly implemented bio-metric scans. The process of recording retinas and fingerprints (there may be more measurements) is another aspect where “baiting” would be very advantageous because if someone picks up dummy C-4 and is caught, scanned, and processed prior records (CSI evidence from raids on houses which is taken very seriously) could show prior insurgent activities. Plus, an innocent will not be harmed and may think twice before being a spotter or hole digger if he/she (mostly he) knows that they are in the system, and perceive a higher probability of being tracked down.
An interesting anecdote: CSI, the show, is very popular or was a year ago, in Iraq and there’s a belief among some citizens that U.S. soldiers with the bio-metric recording hardware can pull off some of the more fantastic aspects of that show.
Kent – One of the more accurate, and often cited, sources for civilian causalities in Iraq is from http://www.iraqbodycount.org/. Granted their technique as flawed in the sense they lack perfect knowledge the group still makes a tremendous effort to keep an accurate count. I only wish they would have been carrying out this endevour for the last 30 years in Iraq. I don’t want to debate it but just another source.
#35 – What are you my frackin’ english prof? It is a blog post. Just because you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation is no reason to get pissy.
#33 tallwookie writes… “they should really be putting money on the ground (coins, so they dont blow away in the wind) and then dropping cluster bombs onto the area when people gather around.”
And the bait money will be inscribed with…
“In God We Trust” 😉
@ 25
“Currently insurgents are throwing armor piercing grenades, supplied by the Iranians most likely, at the armored humvees to great affect. If a sniper was to wait for such an occurance…should he not shoot the fleeing insurgents because that would be…baiting?”
No, that would be camping.
Seriously, it wouldn’t be baiting. Someone picking something up is not doing anything wrong and maybe or maybe not an insurgent. Someone attacking a humvee is clearly an insurgent.
The answer to the question……..NO !! When are the liberals and the people who actually think life is fair or should be fair going to come to the realization life isn’t fair.
Support your Troops and lets forget about all the criticism of our troops and leaders.Be glad you have them!!! Let them do their jobs the way they see fit.
#41: In other words, turn our government into a totalitarian one where no one can question what it does? Where those who do wrong aren’t held accountable? Where we have no say how we are governed? Are you a Communist?
#42 anyone can question what they like. Most that do wrong aren’t punished enough there is very little accountabilty these days. Of course ,we should have a say on how we are governed. Although, I’m not sure our say really impacts the politicians. Apparently my comments were misleading and I am far from a communist.
41 Support your Troops and lets forget about all the criticism of our troops and leaders.
43 Most that do wrong aren’t punished enough there is very little accountabilty these days.
You don’t think that the reason there is “very little accountability these days” is that people like you keep spouting that knee-jerk “support our troops” crap every time the bad apples tarnish the reputation of the majority??
41 Pam –
I started my service in the military in the period just a few years after Vietnam, and saw it rise from the ashes. When I joined, the military was utterly demoralized and undisciplined, and I saw it at it’s worst, and had the fortune of participating in it changing into the professional fighting force that it eventually became again.
Now I see it unwinding again, with moral and professional standards dropping precipitously.
Unless you want the US military to become the rabble that it was by the end of Vietnam, YOU must hold it to the highest standards.
It is not a question of Liberal or Conservative, it is a question of moral right or wrong.
When a group of soldiers kills people that are obvious civilian non combatants, such as women and children huddled in the corner of a room, we must question them and their actions. We must hold them to higher standards, or we become no better than the insurgents we are fighting.
Placing something ‘interesting’ such as bullets, in plain sight, in an area filled with civilians, and then shooting people just for picking it up is morally reprehensible and NOT an acceptable battle tactic. It is very different than planting traps in a known active battlefield.
During the first Iraq war there was a group of Navy Seals that were hiding in foxholes, camouflaged and observing troop movements. A camel herder with his camels came along and accidentally uncovered a radio wire and started pulling on it out of curiosity. The Navy Seals pulled him into one of their foxholes and slit his throat throat. He was just a camel herder living his life.
There was a lot of debate within the military concerning the morality of that action, a decision that had to be done in the moment and I am sure still weighs heavily on the troops that did that.
Compare that to intentionally laying a wire in view and shooting someone just because they pick it up… there is no comparison.
If the US military approves and even instructs this kind of action, I think that we are starting to see the end of the US Military that we are so proud to support, and it is transitioning in to the less than professional organization that it had become at the end of the Vietnam war.
>>lets forget about all the criticism of our … leaders.
Woo. OK, Benito.
War is hell. Pure and simple. There are no real rules or laws. That is why our forefathers created the 2nd ammendment, as a stop gap. It is intended to protect us from enemies foriegn and domestic. Now I don’t see our boys as the enemies like so many of you wrong headed do. I think the fact that 150,000 plus troops go about thier duties and cause no ill effects to the majority of the 25 million plus Iraqis is astounding. So, go and cry all you want about how bad this war is but I’m just gonna shake my head and avoid you when I meet you cause I know you won’t pay the price when the price needs to be paid. So, next time you want some hand out or some protection of your civil liberties, which you always do, I’m just gonna smile and point you to the door. Your talking the talk so walk the walk. Go make it on your own.
45 Awake – While I disagree with you most of the time, this time we agree. I believe that it is morally reprehensible to bait potential targets in an area with non-combatants.
We both probably served in Uncle Sams’ Navy around the same time. If I might ask , which ship? I did two WESTPACs on the Shitty Kitty and am classified as a Vietnam era vet (not actually in theater but in before the official end of the war).
48 – Steve
It’s a small world.
Ship’s company on the Hawk, two WestPacs, during one of which we hit a Russian sub (that should give you the approximate era of my service.)
By the time I got into the service, Vietnam questions were still on the advancement exams, but they were to be officially ignored.
#47 GF… “So, next time you want some hand out or some protection of your civil liberties, which you always do, I’m just gonna smile and point you to the door.”
The biggest immediate threats to our civil liberties come not from the insurgents in Iraq, but from within our own government. Unless you support the defense of our Constitution in legislatures and courtrooms across America, you were never much use in the battle for our civil liberties anyway.
As for the war in Iraq, just because we’ve created this “war is hell” climate over there doesn’t mean we can ever abandon the moral imperative to avoid dishonorable wartime tactics. Invading a foreign country to topple their government created an extraordinary obligation on the U.S. in terms of our own conduct, one that we must continue to honor if we can ever hope to maintain respect among the countries of the world.
#38, chcknhwk03,
If this is “just a blog post”, then why can’t you post a comment? YOUR opinion. Instead, you copy crap from some biased “manual” (counter-insurgency?) and then toss in some names as if they mean something and pretend you know something. Sorry, that only shows you’re a phony. Just another chicken hawk wannabe coward. Ready to justify killing Iraqis as if they were numbers instead of people. Justifying the death of American service people because of some undefined “greater good”.
I can’t express enough contempt for people like you.
34 – Asleep: Ah, yes. The argument that only those in the military or with military experience can support the fighting in Iraq, and they don’t count because they are war mongers. On the other hand, everyone can criticize, even if they have no experience and have no idea what they are talking about.
6 years in, during Vietnam, when 6 was the requirement. Of course, on the net, “no one can tell you are a dog”. (“8 years”?)
“Debunked with one breath”? Only if you believe the MSM. Try the mil blogs for a view of reality.
The 1 million casualties claim originally came out back when Clinton was President, and was aimed at “the US”. Reality: Sadam was starving his people in order to build palaces and comitting mass murder among the Kurds and Swamp Arabs, and even he did not kill 1 million. So far as even his enemies can guess.
The million casualties claim came out again over a year ago, and was extrapolated from an informal survey, someone with a clip board went house to house asking how many casualties they knew of. The people doing that survey did not cross check with the authorities to see if there were really that many dead. There weren’t.
(Iraq really does require death certificates.)
Now there’s /another/ claim of a million casualties?
Well, I suppose the casualties may eventually reach 1 million, if the looney left and MSM keep encouraging the insurgents with the promise that the left will force the US to withdraw. Meanwhile, the civilian casualties (the ones not terrorists) keep piling up, almost all killed by the terrorists.
If you check Yon’s blog, which I cannot as I’m behind a firewall, you will find the IED teams consist of a “Money Man”, explosives expert, emplacement team, and a trigger man. All get paid to do what they do. Mercenaries, paid to kill other Iraqis.
Same for the VBEDs and suicide bombers. Money man, explosive expert, ‘splody dope recruiters and handlers, and the ‘slody dope (sometimes an actual volunteer, but often drugged, retarded, under age, or coerced by threats to his family, and often chained to the wheel. Sometimes a second car carries the trigger man, who blows the VBED by remote, just in case the ‘splody dope chickens.) Again, most of them mercenaries.
Where does the money come from? Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and mosques world wide. Soros is funding the peace movement in the US and the KGB might be up to their old tricks. (Soros because he makes money off turmoil and Putin because he makes money off oil prices.)
Iran wants the oil fields, Russia and Saudi Arabia want high oil prices and a place to send the true believers among the Moslems so they are less a PITA where they are. Syria? No idea, unless they are exporting Imams and radicals (I have not heard enough to tell). The mosques world wide? The Imams are the radicals who would make trouble in their home countries. Better they be “sent on a mission for Allah”, and out from under foot at home.
Its not like poor people, with starving children crying at home, cant SELL det-cord or ordinance to get dinner money for their babies… riiiiiiight….no one would ever want to do that to save their baby’s life….
gomer pyle, keep on killing the babies… good american……
Phillep, you’re not going to find anyone who reads Micheal Yon’s stories here, even though his coverage of the conflict is top notch.
Also, Bill Roggio from longwarjournal.org just started reporting from inside Iraq with some interesting analysis as well.
American military and foreign policy make me sick.
How can you defend the actions of the American soldiers and military on the basis of what they’re facing? The tatics described in this article (assuming the article is accurate) are disgusting and could well lead to many innocent civilian deaths.
I see many of you say “They started this”, “9/11”, etc… but you’re missing a really important point. Even if you believe the propaganda from the Bush government, Iraq nothing to do with 9/11, the Iraqi civilians who are being put at risk are completely innocent in this. Al Qaeda is a private, nation-independent group, operating outside the law.
And here is the kicker, cause most people seem to have forgotten it… America INVADED Iraq. Lets not bullshit ourselves on that point! America invaded Iraq on the false-premise of WMD’s that have NEVER BEEN FOUND, and against a UN ruling. That means against the world community’s better judgment.
On this point alone, YES we should scrutinize and criticizes EVERYTHING that US soldiers (and Australian, British and other so-called “Coalition of the Willing” troops) do in Iraq. And “Look what they’re up against” and “Look what the ‘insurgents’ are doing” is NEVER, in any way an excuse to use these kinds of tactics that might jeopardize innocent civilians in Iraq.
Kill ’em all; let the sky-daddy sort them out…
#52, Philleep,
The 1 million casualties claim originally came out back when Clinton was President,
It did? Gee, I don’t remember EVER reading that. Besides, it was Bush’s daddy who installed the sanctions against Iraq. It was Bush jr who invaded.
(Iraq really does require death certificates.)
And in a country with a dysfunctional civil service and burial customs requiring quick burial, they are sooo accurate. I guess that is why even the Iraq government doesn’t know.
Meanwhile, the civilian casualties (the ones not terrorists) keep piling up, almost all killed by the terrorists.
Does that include those killed for picking up a piece of wire for salvage? Or shot on a street because Blackwater wants to drive through? Or murdered in their homes to conceal a rape? Or suffocated by a special forces interrogator sitting on their chest? NOTE Please check your definition of terrorist.
Where does the money come from? Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and mosques world wide. Soros is funding the peace movement in the US and the KGB might be up to their old tricks. (Soros because he makes money off turmoil …
I was thinking you were just another fucking chicken hawk until you posted that comment. Now I know you’re a fucking asshole retarded clueless chicken hawk.