Next up, only skinny people can have operations as obesity can cause complications. Then let’s limit operations only to those who aren’t sick because you know sick people can have complications. And this isn’t just about a national health care system. How many people on HMOs have gotten similar treatment (or non-treatment).
Smoker refused operation on broken ankle
A smoker is facing years of pain after an NHS hospital refused to set his broken ankle unless he gives up cigarettes.
John Nuttall, 57, needs the operation to fix the ankle he broke in three places two years ago and which was not healed by a plaster cast.
Doctors at the Royal Cornwall Hospital in Truro have refused to operate to rebuild the ankle because they say Mr Nuttall’s heavy smoking would reduce the chance of a full recovery.
They have told him to give up smoking before they operate but the retired builder has been unable to break his habit.
Mr Nuttall says he is in constant pain from the grating of the broken bones against each other and has been prescribed daily doses of morphine.
He refused surgery when he first injured the ankle in a fall in 2005 because he was worried about catching MRSA in hospital. When he went back a few weeks later and the ankle had not set he said he was told he would have to give up smoking before doctors could operate.
Mr Nuttall, from Newlyn, west Cornwall, said: “I have begged them to operate but they won’t. I have tried my hardest to give up smoking but I can’t.
“I want to warn other smokers. We have paid our National Insurance stamps all our lives and now we are being shut out of the NHS.”
A spokesman for the hospital trust said: “Smoking has a very big influence on the outcome of this type of surgery and the healing process would be hindered significantly.”
I’ll still say there’s a story about national health care in there. I know HMOs can deny payment for all kinds of reasons. However, this guy broke his ankle TWO YEARS ago. And they’re just now getting around to denying the surgery? My daughter broke her elbow and had surgery the next day. And I couldn’t afford it at the time….they put me on a payment plan after the surgery was done.
#1 You think?
Older, and at risk patients significantly hinder or even prevent rehabilitation if they continue smoking after many types of surgery. My father had a shattered ankle, continued smoking after surgery and 3 years later is what Peter Cook would call a ‘unidexter’. The question seem to be should ‘insurance’, private or state, cover a procedure that has a high likelihood of failure due to patient action/inaction? Do alcoholics deserve a new liver on the insurance co. dime? What about dialysis? If you can afford it personally- go for it. Can’t complain about insurance $ if you don’t allow them to cut costs somewhere. I would vote to cut the egregious self-inflictors 1st. Don’t let’s start a discussion on SS means testing…
1,
“He refused surgery when he first injured the ankle in a fall in 2005”
‘Nuff said.
But I thought that the Tobacco Industry said in 1994 that nicotine was not addictive. Big business wouldn’t lie to us, would they?
And you all want socialized medicine ? well this is what you get so enjoy it
I’ve always wondered why people in countries with national health care still buy private insurance if they can afford it. Now I know.
I don’t have much sympathy for a guy that went against a doctor’s advice.
Then again, I have no sympathy for anyone who looks at a problem like this and things government involvement would solve anything.
Pedro, I agree with you and I would go farther.
First, being overweight is not like being a smoker. ALL smokers purposely damage their health, whereas many who are overweight to the point of being a health risk, are genetically disposed or they don’t have the wealth and support required for perfectly healthy eating and living.
3–Pedro==just for shits and grins, what about the personal responsibility of the tobacco companies that were busy manipulating the nicotine delivery system while claiming it wasn’t addictive?
Seems to me “maybe” one or two people would not have started smoking if correct information was widely available and not subverted by tobacco company programs of misinformation?
Dear old Dad used to say each cigarette took 6 minutes off your life. He was happy they took it at the end.
We seem to have been spammed by right wing loonies. Isn’t there a ‘Comment Guideline’ for this sort of thing?
I have a pinch nerve in my back. Told no surgery if I did not quit smoking. Did not have insurance at the time. All the while I was also having pancreatic attacks. I went misdiagnosed for 2 years. I was told it was a combo of GURD and maybe stomach ulcers. Well I finally had a really bad attack. I thought I was dieing. Went to the emergency room and finally was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis. I had 2 cysts that had grown and 1 was 8cm other was 6cm. 1 year went bye and 1 cysts went down to 2cm but other was still at 8. Doctors told me I did not want to have pancrease surgry unless completely necessary. Another year went bye. I had another bad attack. This time I had insurance. Was in the hospital for week and was not getting better…. getting worse so the sent me up to Emory. They drained it. Over a gallon of fluids and blood. Mad a couple shunts so it could drain into my stomach if it swelled again. I had to agree (sign a peace of paper) to quit smoking before they did the surgery and started a nicotine patch treatment. So for over 2 years imagine a really bad hangover *10. Got back home and my stomach doc told me if I ever went to the hospital for drinking that he would not treat me. Mind you I had been sober from alcohol for 2 years.
So I also was seeing a pain specilst. They had me on (10 total) 5 drugs that cuessed drowsyness and can be addictive. Per day. 4 Muscel relaxers . 6 vicodine. 4 Phenergan. 2 xanax. Something else cant rem name.
After 3 years this gets old. I was out of work. Doped up all the time. Could not get shit done. So I started to take myself off my medication. Told my Doctor and he complimented me. Saying “Most people do not ever want to come off the medication and usually want more.” I told him I have pretty much got use to the pain and needed to get my life back After 3 months I went for my monthly visit and was told I had to take a urine test. I asked why. They told me that they where going to check my levels. If I did not follow the plan that they laid out for me that I was not following the doctors orders and would cancel treatment. I walked out took myself of all the medication except one that is a really strong anti-acid.
So I quit drinking. Quit all those addictive drugs. In a lot of pain but not on those drugs. BUT I can not quit smoking. I have quit 3 times. One time for over a year. I know it stupid but somehow started back. I now people that have quit crack but can not quit smoking.
Doing ok btw. Eating right, working out a little. And sorry for such a long post.
I had a cousin here in the US that a surgeon refused to perform a delicate arterial bypass in her leg unless she stopped smoking. He said it would fail and she would loose the leg anyway. If you’re on the heart transplant list you’re screen for nicotine. If they detect it your off the list. That cousin of mine died when that bad leg threw a clot three weeks after quitting cigarettes and awaiting surgery. The only difference in the US is he could shop around for a surgeon that would attempt it, if he had insurance approval.
bobbo, that theory has been proven wrong. Cigarette packages are plastered with grotesque images and dire warnings, and morons still start smoking. Sure there is a certain excuse for the older generation who started when the hazards were uncertain, but there is no absolutely excuse now. My dad smoked too, but we got him to stop in his early 40’s. he’s now 83. His brother died of smoking related cancer though, and I lost a cousin (30 yrs old) to lung cancer from second hand smoke.
Calin, Gig, pedro, & pmitchel,
Please read the article before demonstrating your intelligence. He refused surgery at the time he broke the ankle. Several weeks later when he decided he wanted the operation, he was told he had to quite smoking first. He won’t quit.
There is nothing here about poor medical coverage. There is lots about ignoring the physician’s diagnosis for an operation and stupid refusals. There is also something about the intelligent decision of doing a medical procedure only when there is a reasonable chance of success.
Geeze you guys know how to be morans.
#15, Jim
Cigarette packages are plastered with grotesque images and dire warnings, and morons still start smoking.
If I remember you hail from Canada. The US does not have the graphics or similar degree of warnings that Canadians do. Consequently, if I recall correctly, Canada has about half the rate of smokers that the US does. Yes, some of those graphics are quite gross.
But you are correct. Some morans still continue to start.
I’d also add that even in our wonderful pay through the nose for your care system, you may not always get treatment. Doctors are rated based on the number of patients they lose. So, they refuse high risk cases here too. Why should a doctor risk his/her own reputation and position in the hospital by taking high risk cases?
A 400 lb, 5’6″ tall man goes in for a colon resection. They have to cut through so much extra tissue and the recovery is much riskier. So, he has to find a doctor who specializes in high risk cases and is judged by a different standard. Good luck. He was able to find someone. But then, having a relative who is a doctor helps pave the way.
This is not a hypothetical case. I’d prefer not to give too much information about the medical conditions and identity of someone else though. If it was me, I’d say more.
12 – “We seem to have been spammed by right wing loonies. Isn’t there a ‘Comment Guideline’ for this sort of thing? – Cinaedh”
Wasn’t there a thread a while back about how “liberals” were open minded and willing to discuss things and how “conservatives” are against anything that contradicted their world view?
Oh, my! Do we have a contradiction here? Does someone wish to shut out opposing viewpoints? Nahhh. Couldn’t be. /Everyone/ knows liberals can take hearing other people’s POVs.
I have seen little that could be “right wing”, and nothing at all that could be called “spam”.
“If I remember you hail from Canada. The US does not have the graphics or similar degree of warnings that Canadians do.”
Oh. I didn’t know that Mr. Fusion. I guess my rant doesn’t quite apply here so i’ll just go back to my favorite pastime and play with my Canadian beaver. 🙂
#20 – Phillep
Somehow, within the first eleven posts the focus of the story changed from some idiot who won’t quit smoking into various diatribes about socialized medicine and the evils of allowing the government to get involved in providing health care, so average people can actually afford it without falling into debt to corporations for the rest of their lives and beyond.
Spam is just unwanted, unsolicited crap and there was plenty of that available, as usual.
By the way, in my opinion ‘liberals’ are no more open-minded than ‘conservatives’. I wish a pox on both their houses.
It wasn’t the HMO who refused to pay for the operation, it was the doctors who refused to perform it. Unless my understanding of your system is wrong, the doctors don’t want to operate on someone who has very little chance of recovering properly. So they fix his ankle but he never heals and dies from that.
It is unfortunate that smokers get the short end of the stick here, regardless of whose fault their addiction is. It is unfortunate, but unalterable. The best they can hope for is a doctor who doesn’t care if you don’t recover and operates anyway.
Sorry about your cousin RTaylor, but that wasn’t the doctors fault. (or her’s) It was just bad timing.
#23 – pedro
I agree a mixed socialized/private health care system could be a nice compromise but humans being humans and free enterprise being free enterprise, eventually the wealthy would get the very best of immediate treatment and the poor and middle class would end up getting screwed as usual.
It’s true the patients are at the mercy of the government in power but if it’s a democracy, presumably the damage done by the philosophy of one government could be repaired by next government, who would most likely be elected on a platform of fixing health care.
Nothing is perfect but losing everything you worked for in life to the medical establishment, simply because you got sick or were in an accident, isn’t a very attractive option either.
If I, as a taxpayer, am paying for your healthcare, I think I have a right to ask you to do your part in solving your health problems. Of course, the bigger question is: If the government feels this way about cigarettes, then why not simply outlaw them? I know, there’d be a black market, but tobacco is certainly more dangerous than cannabis, so where’s the logic?
I have a friend who is quite a bit over weight. His knees are shot and he needs knee surgery. His surgeon refused to do the surgery until he lost 100 lbs. He said that the surgery would be a waste of time and money if he didn’t lose weight. He’s getting close to the surgery weight now.
#19, pedro,
#16 you are the one that should read better and since I hate to quote myself, I will give you a hint: read the first 7 words (8 if you count the contraction) of post #3.
The first seven words of your post #3
I’m not commenting on the piece itself,
Then you ignored that sage advice and went ahead and commented anyway. The second paragraph.
I get this headline/rant about the story. Yeah, you should not deny medical treatment to someone with any kind of illness, regardless of the source of it.
You went on to write:
What ever happened to personal responsibility?
This goes for fatsos suing food companies for being fat as well.
Maybe the marketing idiots who made those “Above the influence” anti drug campaign might hire him.
Ok mybe post was long to get hint/point across. Got side tracked too. I smoke to deal with stress/habit. Drank for same reason. Also helps with pain. I can not do those drugs. They will deny me treatment. Although the drugs they had me on to help my illness can be more addictive and harmtful body wise. Although they hurt other parts of the body. I took myself of alot of harmful drugs and they did not like that and threated me denying treatment. I started smoking again (excuse I know) withdraws from prescribe drugs and pain got bad. Smoking helped. It has turn into a racket. Not trying to come of racist but how many doctors in the USA can speak English well or from the US. Also they are just legalized drug dealers. If you got the money. The money is not in the cure but the treatment. THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT THERE MONEY NOT YOUR LIFE.