Folks at autoblog.com do their expected terrific and occasionally cranky job of covering one of the better auto shows.
Lots of new technology on offer – most often within the definition of Concept Car – which in the case of Euro manufacturers often means just around the corner. Everything is going Green – in Europe – which means newer, smarter diesels along with hybrid variants starting to challenge diesel predominance.
As usual, don’t count on these goodies ever seeing our side of the pond. Most of the world’s auto manufacturers think Americans will never get it.
Here’s a couple of samples – starting with the not-so-Green:
Aston Martin Vantage N400
Suzuki Kazashi
Volkswagen up! Engine back in the back
I want to know all about the Mitsubishi MIEV electric / hybrid !!!
Kudos to VW for making simple low-tech improvements to the diesel motors and greatly improving mileage.
However – a rear power train on a small car !?!? Talk about a disaster waiting to happen on our winter roads. 360’s !!!
“Most of the world’s auto manufacturers think Americans will never get it.”
And why would they? I don’t think American enjoy driving in the same way as Europeans. First the qualifications to get a driving license are abysmally low, and second, Americans are always doing something else in their cars, such as eating, drinking, yakking on the phone, watching TV – anything but concentrating on what is going on.
Can you imagine the typical American driver on the autobahn?
FRANKFORT? HEHE LOOSER
STEVE
What the world needs are more over-engineered German cars with a fraction of the reliability of a more simpler Japanese design.
I see those perky little Aston Martins are usually finalists for “worst gas mileage of any car”. I’ll bet that V8 won’t be able to break 10mgp.
I guess “carbon neutrality” (or gas price) isn’t such a big deal over there…
#5 – how do you manage to write 3 sentences and be wrong in all 3? Do you ever wander around the WWW and actually read stuff?
It’s been clear in the Euro press + politics that carbon neutrality is much debated and, in fact, the theme running up to this show.
The A-M gets about 13 mpg city – 18 mpg highway. Probably better than your Suburban.
>>how do you manage to write 3 sentences and be wrong in all 3?
So far, you haven’t shown I’ve been wrong in even one, Randy.
If carbon neutrality is such a cause célèbre, why are they pimping cars that make Hummers look like hydrogen cars? Kind of odd, if carbon neutrality was the “theme running up to this show”, eh?
Is the 13mpg figure you quoted the old metric, or the newly revised EPA one (which is invariably lower)? I’ll bet we can get it down below 10mpg yet. In either case, it sure is shitty gas mileage.
You didn’t even dispute the third “error” you claim I made; that Aston Martins routinely compete for “worst gas mileage of any car”.
And I don’t drive a Suburban, I drive a Prius.
NO: 7
I’M NOT HATING, BUT WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO WITH THE PRIUS BATTERIES IN 10 YEARS? ADD TO A LANDFILL?
STEVE
#8.
Feeling good now > worrying about the details tomorrow
>>BUT WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO WITH THE PRIUS
>>BATTERIES IN 10 YEARS? ADD TO A LANDFILL?
CALM DOWN, STEVE! LOSE THE CAPS LOCK!
What I’m going to do with the Prius battery in 10 years is recycle it. See below for some pimping info from the Toyota web site. You may just throw your old batteries in the Dumpster(R), but I am a little more environmentally conscious.
“Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 “bounty” for each battery.”
#1, don’t be too scared of small cars with rear engines. There is long tradition in Europe of making these and handling is surprisingly good. One of the reasons are the small and very light engines, another the wide wheelbase for the small car (like the front-engine Mini). These are not Corvairs,…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_engine
Hey Mr. Mustard,
How’s your prius? Do you ever take it on long drives?
I’m still doing the enviro-conscious thing of driving my car into the ground to avoid the waste associated with a new car purchase. My 1992 camry is still doing well with 105K miles on it. When it dies, I plan to go prius too, unless there’s something better by then.
I’m really curious to hear how a prius does on 200 mile or more highway drives with minimal rest stops cruise control all the way.
I typically get 30-32 on the highway in my 4 cyl camry, which I think sucks but still beats the EPA rating of 27 quite soundly (at least I have a terrapass for the carbon offsets to help a bit). I want to get an idea of whether I can expect to beat the EPA for a prius as well.
Ohh, I want a crack at this STEVE troll !!!
Yes, I drive a Prius! Instead of spending even more $$$ towards a SUV that I could have afforded, or a luxury car.
The Prius battery and landfill do not belong in the same sentence, as you so nicely put in STEVE / LOSER + O = looser (first post).
Car batteries are highly recycled, the Prius NiMH is no exception. Wrap this around your head STEVE, I will get paid US$ 250 (today’s price), in ten years from now when I might need to change it.
Even if you factor in what pollution was created to create the NiMH battery, then recycle it – against gas that would have been burned otherwise, the battery is thousands of time cleaner.
Even if you buy a Toyota SUV, by design, it will last much longer than any American non-built-in-America SUV.
The Big 3 are probably the world’s largest recyclers, by designing cars that you get rid of for sure before 10 years and buy a new one again.
People like STEVE buy American (parts from Japan, China, Mexico) that are assembled outside the US, shipped to the US, in a dealer’s parking lot with hundreds of American flags and balloons, with Buy American slogans.
Toyota cars & trucks assembled in America are much more American than the American cars. Look it up STEVE. Besides being higher quality, meaning, your $$$ per mile ratio is higher.
The Prius is reserved for those that make a conscious choice of spending the same $$$ against a car that can be easily upgraded to full electric after being paid for, instead of a luxury V6 or a SUV, and in the long term, save money.
For everybody else, get an Insight, Yaris or TDI (if you like manual drive).
Meanwhile, the prices of Hybrids will come down with competition. Ultra Capacitors will replace the batteries and they outlast batteries.
ADD TO A LANDFILL? such ignorance & arrogance. Can’t even find the Caps Lock key.
Mr Scott – The Prius rocks. I don’t take it on many long trips, though. Mostly just out to the suburbs for a trip to Target or to visit friends. I understand that the mileage is less impressive on a coast-to-coast trip, but I don’t take too many of them.
On the other hand, my 1999 Jetta with 195K miles on it was pretty good too. It just got to the point where it was more sensible to replace the car than the parts that were wearing out.
#12 – You’re doing fine. Competition will drive down the prices of Hybrids, and true EV’s need ultracapacitors with a small battery pack, not a large battery pack that takes half a day to recharge. It’s coming.
The only times a Prius has lousy mileage, roughly equivalent to a Yaris / Insight (which is still very good!), is when :
– Cold weather at sub 20 f or 0c. Blockheater and blocked grill helps.
– Short trips of less than 7 miles one way, at rest over 2 hours
On the highway, you go middle or left lane, and follow the leader. Always go into the fastest moving lane, as that’s the one that won’t stop – or some idiot puts on his brake instead of maneuvering.
On the highway, on cruise control (using cruise control to accelerate & decelerate for traffic) and a long trip, you will get 50 MPG and higher. Real easy. No brainer.
While roughly equivalent to a Golf TDI Diesel MANUAL, that’s because there’s more energy in 1 gallon of Diesel versus 1 gallon of unleaded regular.
Any good MANUAL transmission driver uses the clutch by instinct, which disengages the motor from the transmission, causing coasting. Also a good MANUAL driver shifts to keep his motor in the sweet spot of 4k-5k RPM where a motor is most efficient.
The American made transmissions often don’t have a fourth gear, or if they do, it’s called “overdrive”. Yet a car with MANUAL driving at 60 Mph will be in 5th or 6th gear. So highway driving with an Automatic, your RPM is way too high, and you can never coast.
It would be dangerous to shift to Neutral & Drive.
The Prius is the best of both worlds, it uses VTT, and basically has an infinite number of gear ratios. Using the Cruise Control, even at 65 Mph, will get you 50MPG.
However, if you follow NY State’s speed limit of 55Mph, you’ll got up to 55MPG, and so on. Hypermilers never drive above 45Mph to get those crazy 70MPG numbers, and avoid highways.
Personally I like highway driving, and don’t skimp on speed.
Even if you’re driving at 65Mph in a Prius, you still have plenty of power to pass a van, because there is no fourth gear the limit being only the top speed, as Steve Wozniak found at 103Mph.
If you drive over 3,000 miles a month on the highway @ highway speeds, now, with an Automatic car w/o “overdrive”, a Prius will save you money. If you have HOV lanes, then you even save time.
Remember, six people car pooling in HOV in a Honda Accord still pollutes the air more than six Prius driving the same route.
That’s why they’re allowed with a single driver. Pollution control, not MPG.
FWIW, any new car could be installed with PZEV exhaust system, used in Honda / Toyota hybrids – on a regular car – and that would make your car “just as green”. Oh, it’s only like 500$ cost.
One tenth of the markup of a hybrid.
GM/Ford/Chrysler thought that the American public, people like STEVE, are too uneducated & cheap to spend that extra 500$ to have cars that pollute 90% LESS and sacrificing 10 horsepower out of the 150+ of that V4 engine.
>>is when :- Cold weather at sub 20 f or 0c.
Hmm. I thought 0c was 32f, and -20f was -29c.
Must be that new math.
For a total 180°, did you see this? The 50 worst cars of all time– worth a look and a laugh, too.
http://tinyurl.com/2m6gzu
#16 I grew up in metric in Canada. By sub 20 f, i mean 19 f (above 0 f).
I didn’t bother to check the exact number of 0c versus Fahrenheit.
Aren’t you nitpicking? 🙂 Okay, Sub 32 f or 0c, like all cars, lousy mileage.
#17 LOL at how VW, Honda & Toyota are missing from the list. The Big 3 will be The Last 3, after VW, Honda & Toyota share the 1-3 top spots, followed most likely by Hyundai.
I feel the Chrysler Neon & the PT Cruiser are strangely missing from the list.
To be fair, GM/Ford/Chrysler make very good [someone fill me in, I have no clue].
All right, since this is not a “family” website, who can give us the dirt on the car-names mentioned in the Lamborgini section of the linked article?
I already knew about Chevy’s blunder with “No Va”, but I wasn’t aware of any of the others.
“Laputa” I figured-out on my own… 😉
…but “LF-A”???
In fact, Spanish seems to be the language that comes up most frequently in these delicately-named situations. Nissan made a car called the Moco, which means “snot.” Chevrolet made the Nova, which, of course, means “no go.” Mitsubishi still sells an SUV called — not in Spain — the Pajero, which means “wanker” in the, uh, more literal sense. Then there was the Mazda Laputa, which we can’t get into on a family web site. Same goes for the Lexus LF-A, which caused one wide-eyed Spaniard we know to say “They need to change that name.“
I have a silver 06 prius (option pack 4, aftermarket leather). It should be renamed Prieesofshit. It’s left me stuck on hill’s becuase the traction control controls the traction allright, it shut the effing car down. It’s small. It’s cramped. It rattles more than the 85 z28 I had when i was a kid (so much for the heralded toyota quality). It’s about as much fun to drive as a washing machine. I’m getting a new truck, prob a ford f250 diesel, King Ranch edition, a vehicle that one can actually use for something.
The issue that no one except STEVE seems to address is that the prius, while miserly on fuel, is an energy whore to build. And to get dispose of at end of life.
If you enviroweenies really want to do something about fuel effiency and the environment, gett off your duff and walk, ride a bike, ride the bus to go shopping, to work, etc. I do. Otherwise shut the eff up.
Steve, don’t you know that diesels are destroying the ozone layer?
Read a newspaper sometime!
#19
Funniest name was Toyota MR2 in France.
Mr2 it’s spelled Eme Erre deux —> Emmerdeur… ie. Shitter.
JoaoPT.
Thanks, I hadn’t heard of that one, either.
I know there used to be a site which listed a lot of the marketing blunders made, when trying to translate brand-names & slogans to new languages… I’ll have to try searching for some of them.
>>Same goes for the Lexus LF-A, which caused one
>>wide-eyed Spaniard we know to say “They need to
>>change that name.“
So, what does it mean? Seems kind of obscure to me…
#20 – I said before the Prius wasn’t for everyone, only perhaps 75% of the city/suburbs population. It’s a commuter transport car, not a work vehicle like a pickup.
Those that pollute the most in their daily commutes & bumper to bumper traffic twice a day. This is where the Prius behaves best – and regular cars behave worst.
Energy whore issue was discussed and easily debunked. At the end of it’s life, in some 20 years and half a million miles, it will be entirely recycled, 100% of the aluminum reused. 100% of the battery reused. Stop spreading nonsense.
Have fun reselling you 06 Prius, you’ll fetch a very high price for it. Funny how someone that actually wants/needs a F250 pickup actually owning a Prius. Sounds like a story behind that, better left explained by you.
No rattling when driving under 25Mph – you can’t contest that.
Rattling at higher speeds, correct. Far from perfect. It’s not a luxury car even though the base sticker price is similar to low-end luxury sedans.
If you want impeccable interior & a hybrid, get a Camry or a Lexus, for only 6 to 10 grand more. Resell is in proportion, so you don’t lose out in the long term.
If you’re stuck on a hill, because of traction control – then I’m assuming winter, or perhaps, dirt roads. The tires are the problem, not the car.
The lousy Goodyear tires of my Prius are going to recycling next year for 4 Yokohama’s touring & 4 winters.
I also found the traction control finicky, and through others, have found that the problem are the factory default tires.
#21 – the Anti-Steve comment – it is possible to have PZEV for Diesel also, but of course someone like FlyingElvis won’t force his dealer to get PZEV for his F250 truck, costing less than 1,000$. Probably too afraid of being laughed at from the dealer.
“You want to spend extra to have your truck pollute less? That’s un-American, will reduce your horsepower, and consume more diesel” (by probably less than 5%)
Which is too bad, PZEV diesel trucks & cars, 1 million on the road, would have less an environmental footprint than hybrids in the same quatity. Just because Diesel uses much less refining than Regular gas and is more energy dense.
Ah, but only Honda is making the clean diesel + PZEV.
Lookup PZEV on Wikipedia, especially STEVE & FLYINGELVIS, so you can change your tune. Bash where it counts, not the 0.01% of the population currently driving Hybrids in NA.
Mark, re-read the comment:
* nowhere do i state that i’m getting rid of the prius. It’s simply one of 4 vehicles i own.
* the prius, my prius at least, does rattle at 0 rpm, if the transmission allowed the wheels to slip and then quickly gain traction the drive shafts would sheer.
* the PZEV ‘add on’s’ while nice, if available, for reducing emissions, by your own statement increase the energy used by the vehicle. Five more percent inefficiency over the lifetime of the vehicle more than offsets the emissions reduction. Consider the entire supply chain, not just the vehicle. I know, of course you have, but, you need to sharpen your pencil and try again.
* recycling is often misunderstood by the lay public. The pollution created in the power generation for recycling, and, additionally the materials needed for recycling, are often worse than the pollution caused by the item being recycled. Paper is a great example of this. So, still say the Prius is an energy whore and will continue to ‘spread’ that opinion.
* wikipedia is not a valid source for scientific information.
* 500,000 miles for a prius is a bit optimistic.
#26 Nice comeback flyingelvis. I liked it a lot. 🙂
Glad you’re keeping your Prius. Look into changing the tires, the base stock is a disappointment.
So is the rattling, but I’ve found but stuffing the various compartments with (useful) stuff gets rid of most of hit.
* The cost of PZEV, even if losing 5% of fuel (pure conjecture on my part BTW), it still scrubbing 90% of the pollution.
So what’s more important – air quality in congested cities – or reducing the total gas used? Total gas used is going up anyways.
* The Wikipedia PZEV entry has nothing to do with science (in this case), it’s totally accurate, and a very good read. Links to other articles, etc.
* Recycling metals, especially aluminum and other manufactured metals, by far is smaller than producing new materials, and why should this go into landfills?
* The Prius is no more an energy whore than a Suburban to produce & recycle. I seriously doubt a Suburban with 200,000 miles and ten years under it’s belt won’t be rusted through and through. The Prius won’t have a spec of rust on it.
There’s still millions of SUV’s in America, and only 1 million Prius worldwide.
So why even recycle a Prius? Just repair it, cheaper.
Exactly how is the Prius an energy whore? The aluminum? The 240HV battery? The electric motor? Everything else is found on all cars, so count that out.
While more energy required to make & recycle the aluminum shell, the battery & motor, that’s still, pound for pound, less than any larger sized SUV. So I need more info for a NAY or YAY on this issue.
* 500,000 miles is not optimistic, Vancouver taxi fleet reached that milestone already with the 2001 model.
How many 1990 Toyota Tercels do you see every week? I see plenty. Twenty year old Honda Civics? I see plenty.
Many people have documented over 200,000 miles so far. The gas motor only working part-time, never over-rpm’ing, should last longer than normal, common sense.
The show is held in FrankfUrt, Germany, not Frankfort
I dn’t know what to say… but all I know is that a Prius does not suck in mileage, as long as you spend extra money in battery upgrades and a plug-in kit…
In the end, both parties received some validation. Thomson ultimately received credit for patenting the rubber-tire process, but Dunlop’s name was the one that passed on into history – mainly because the company he helped found, the Dunlop Rubber Company, is still in business. The company was purchased by Goodyear in 1999, but still operates as a separate entity in the U.K.