The British model
After years using outside contractors to tend to the needs of its Iraq bases, the US military is now building zones outside its army posts so Iraqi businesses can actually benefit from their presence.
“Let’s get American and third country contractors out of that business and let’s get Iraqis into that business,” Brigadier Steven Anderson, a driving force behind the programme, told AFP.
“Let’s get Iraqis employed and get them out of the bomb-making business and into the support-providing business,” added the deputy chief of staff for resources and sustainment.
Unlike citizens from other countries hosting US bases, Iraqis have seen few financial benefits from having more than 140,000 US troops in their country.
Has there ever been a colonial people that felt they were “hosting” the troops of an invading nation?
The model is a series of Iraqi industries clustered around the Polish-run Camp Echo base near Diwaniyah where carpenters, mechanics, and welders serve the base.
The German model
And the model has a well-documented history. It worked well for the Nazis. At least among the Germans fed this crap back home.
You know, since the United States became active on the world stage, every land where it’s been involved in a land war is now home to a US presence, post War.
Cuba, Great Britain, Germany, Italy, the Philippines, Numerous Islands in the Pacific, Japan, Korea, The Balkans, Saudi Arabia, and now Iraq.
This is no new imperialist expansion any more than Truman placing troops post-WW2 was. Every country has been returned to independent power. No one complains about European and Asian bases, just at the idea of Iraqi bases. Hypocritical, IMHO.
Try to read a little history, bro – if you didn’t experience it.
Post-WW2 is characterized by throwing the old Euro colonial powers out – from Asia to Africa. Does someone really need to print out a list for you from India to Kenya, etc..
The Brits and the French finally relented and bowed out gracefully a few places. Got their asses kicked a few others. And Uncle Sugar was waiting in the wings to repeat the same criminal stupidity – from Iran to VietNam. And, now, Iraq.
If you think no one complained in the “home” countries – or opposed the colonial ventures – then, your ignorance just goes back a bit further than WW2. And there were many of us in the US who supported those anti-colonial movements even when the target wasn’t our homegrown brand of political thug.
C’mon, Eidard – comparing an industrial zone to a death camp in which a million and a half were exterminated? That’s just so tasteless and utterly lacking in proportion.
Go for it, Frank. Apologize because the US ain’t as good at it as the Nazis – yet.
In fact, the comparison between Krupp and Halliburton is right on. The latter just uses different slogans than that sign at the bottom of the Post.
BTW – I’ve been to Auschwitz. Visited the bakery in the village that sold plenty of loaves of bread to the Germans while they were in residence.
…And the model has a well-documented history. It worked well for the Nazis…
Pushing buttons is one thing, but this is as low as it gets…
#5 god, apparently you didn’t get much out of your trip, where you high, or maybe you still are?
I never heard of Godwin’s law until it was posted last week but it sure seems true. I guess it’s like video games, if you need a bad guy just put Nazi’s in it because everyone knows they have no redeeming qualities. So can you make a point with out the Nazi Germany analogy? How good are you at really understanding what’s going on and debating the point?
I’ve been to Auschwitz. Visited the bakery in the village that sold plenty of loaves of bread to the Germans while they were in residence.
Sounds like your tour of Auschwitz wasn’t exactly all-encompassing.
Figured I didn’t need to explain in advance we went there to pay our respects – and to be reminded firsthand what can happen when well-meaning fools give way to criminal politicians. Guess I was wrong.
Apologists for a stinking war need chapter and verse spelled out every time – so, they can construct their rationales in more depth. And, as usual, avoid the issues as well as responsibility.
#6, 7, 8 – keep tapdancing.
Wait so let me get this strait, when U.S. companies use U.S. labour for construction efforts this is called “war profiteering.” However, when the U.S. offers the same labour demand to Iraqis this is known as a “Nazi model.”
#10 – still haven’t advanced beyond a non sequitur as your essential stab at logic, eh?
Folks who oppose the crap you support – welcome the chance to provide a little more detail and truth. They’re two sides of the same coin, junior. Next week, we’ll explain the difference between strategy and tactics.
The diminutive black-and-white world your politics embraces may see the two topics you listed as mutually exclusive? Reality (and history) records it as part of the same greed and, eventually, desperation..
“Let’s get American and third country contractors out of that business and let’s get Iraqis into that business,” Brigadier Steven Anderson, a driving force behind the programme, told AFP.
“Let’s get Iraqis employed and get them out of the bomb-making business and into the support-providing business
Yeah, that sure sounds like slave labor, gassing, and cremation to me.
#11 -“Greed is the noblest and purest of all emotions.” — Quark.
Before the Pentagon tried and failed with the strategic hamlet jive in Nam, the French had already constructed the standard for ignorance – I guess to keep the folks back home bemused with slogans. They had “agrovilles” in Indochina which were going to provide “pacification by prosperity”.
Sound familiar?
Bush is making parallels to South Korea and German and Japan for leaving bases.
Typical conservatives — they look to the past and bungle present realities.
I can’t think of a recent historical parallel to having bases in Iraq. The closest may be our bases in Saudi Arabia.
But that’s not a good parallel because the Suadi government was OK with it, even if it enraged bin Laden (who, of course, attacked us for it.
Even without a historical parallel, it’s easy to predict that bases in Iraq will be a festering sore point between the US and millions of Muslims.
The bases will be used a proof to radical recruits that the the US only wants to dominate and oppress Islam — and will launch endless attacks on us.
I have to agree (as much as this hurts) with the usual conservative suspects here.
I’m all for a temporary suspension of Godwin’s law because similarities and paralels between Nazi Germany and The Bush administration are not that hard to find these days.
But this isn’t one of those times. Our move into Iraq was undeniably imperialistic and self serving, and not even remotely related to 9/11… Using economics to subdue Iraq in the manner talked about above is not Nazi-like. In fact, it isn’t even a bad idea.
When I think about the Nazi and facists comparisons I think about the way the White House is using misinformation and deceptive propaganda, smear tactics against political enemies, and the use of torture, etc… In many ways the Bush White House borrows as much from Mussolini and Stalin as Hitler, only without (thankfully) the ability to rule unchecked.
That said, Bush isn’t Hitler, nor as evil as Evil, and maybe not even so much evil as incompetent and wrong, but some methodologies definately invite comparison.
But on this thread’s point, the line drawn is unfair.
0. If the Iraqis are being forced into labour under threat of torture and death, I agree with you Eideard. If not – you’re full of BS.
RBG
Just because…
Bush is not Evil (TM) because that is a Microsoft product: http://tinyurl.com/bwxp
Also, he’s not named Steve so he can’t be part of the Axis of Stevil: http://tinyurl.com/2r9vtx
More seriously: If the Iraqis are working of their own free will and getting paid, we’re “subverting” their theocratic nonsense with capitalism. Always a good thing.
My, what a tempest in a pisspot. There should be an additional codocil to Godwin’s Law about using it for a copout – to avoid discussing the point(s) raised.
Certainly, including the slogan used across the board by the Nazis – “Work is Freedom” – may have matched up nicely with the article and the selling points adopted by our military; but, it also opened an opportunity for anyone looking to copout – to do so.
Same goes for parallels between Krupp and Halliburton within the political organization backing the thugs running either erstwhile empire. But, then, the 1930’s version of neocons – when not isolationist – were busy supporting Herr Hitler. Including a guy named Bush.
the Axis of Stevil: – haw!
Anybody know what Godwin’s politics is/was? Sneer-‘n-smear is such a standard tactic of the Lying Right, something like Godwin’s Law is made to order for dismissing parallels that just might have some validity.
Certainly giving a f**k about anything but his own political power is not something I’ve ever heard Dubya seriously accused of. And since the main criminals of the Nazi and Fascist regimes were about power and the wealth it brings, parallels were probably inevitable. Hell, Dubya even refers to his version of government as a “regime.” So references to Godwin’s Law seem a cheap way to dismiss perceived parallels that might just be accurate.
Just sayin’. (apologies to the DU poster of the same name)
19 – You said it better, moss.
So can someone point to the brown shirts out there? Also what is the equalvilent to the the star of David sewn into every Jews clothes and were are the business being ransacked and people deported to death camps and the suspension of all laws. Some hyperbole is understandable but your playing pretty fast and loose with whats going on right now and what did go on in germany in the 30’s and 40’s. Don’t forget Mr James Carville was the one who taught the republicans how to attack the victims and depict them as bad people the republicans just ran with the idea but he is still the king in my opinion and I don’t see anything different going on here.
Sorry….but OFTLO is right on this one(can’t believe I’m saying that). This adminisrtation and it’s leader have done many things that can be compared, but this isn’t one of them. Even the leading contenders for the Democratic nomination complain that the lack of services and jobs is a major hinderance to our achieving the goals we supposedly had in Iraq.
No one here is being threatened with the ovens if they don’t wish to take a job here or make a contract to provide labour or services to the bases. In fact, the danger of this program is to the troops and those who accept the work. To the troops because one of these workers could be a terrorist or suicide bomber. To the workers because they are working with the coalition forces.
The Nazi reference was wrong…..very wrong, for many reasons.
#23 – Sorry….but OFTLO is right on this one(can’t believe I’m saying that).
Think how much better your life would be if you just learned to say that more often 🙂
#15, 19, 20,
Good, well reasoned posts.
The proof is exemplified in #22:
Don’t forget Mr James Carville was the one who taught the republicans how to attack the victims and depict them as bad people …
Or the other favorite Republican past time, just make it up. Tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.
Despite the ongoing debate over the validity of Hitler comparisons, it should be noted that Hitler said that (paraphrased) the public is far more willing to accept a big lie than a little one.
Mr Fusion that is a political past time not just a single party past time.
Also forgot to add it is pretty typical to say the rules don’t apply when you have no other argument. (ie wave Godwins law, codicil to it…)
I wonder if the businesses that support the other 2,230 US military installations overseas consider themselves working under the “British Model” or the “Nazi Model”?
Canada: Six Air Force bases— two SAC, four ADC. Also, a Navy station at Argentia, Nfld. (Plus the Nanoose Torpedo Range on Vancouver Island.)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,829305-2,00.html
How does Godwin’s Law work anyway?
Let’s see. Dvorak would be Hitler. (Same number of letters.) Eideard would be Minister of Propaganda. Banned posters would be the exterminated J…
Can I stop now? The whole Nazi analogy thing is at least making me sick, regardless of the debating opportunities it might present.
RBG