I’ve really begun to wonder if Obama has done more damage to America than Bush did. Here’s Obama’s lies about Snowden when ask about a pardon.
Obama weighed in on the matter on Friday. During his European tour, he was interviewed by Der Spiegel—the largest newspaper in Germany, a country where Snowden is particularly popular. After discussing a wide range of issues, he was asked: Are you going to pardon Edward Snowden?
Obama replied: “I can’t pardon somebody who hasn’t gone before a court and presented themselves, so that’s not something that I would comment on at this point.
And it’s total bull. Ford pardoned Nixon before he was charged and Carter pardoned the Vietnam draft resisters en mass without charges or even identifying them. This mass spying which will probably continue under Trump and surely would have continued under Clinton is why the voters gave the government the finger in this last election. The NSA spying is a crime against humanity creating a single point of failure for civilization. Bush and Obama should be the one’s going to jail. Snowden is a hero.
Obviously he meant “can’t” in the “won’t” sense i.e. a personal standards, not legal sense.
People say they can’t do stuff all the time when they actually mean they won’t because of a variety of other factors. Can one check if he has only pardoned chard and/or convicted people? Otherwise this is specious line of reasoning calling it a lie.
Its still a lie coming from the President speaking AS PRESIDENT. In effect, he pardoned the hundreds if not thousands of BANKSTERS that drove the World Economy into the ditch, in which we are still floundering and Trump is Planning a repeat of, by his STUNNING failure to prosecute.
“There’s something that ain’t quite right about that boy.”
Prosecution under LSD might reveal it, but thats about what it would take.
So there are two ways to interpret this statement that are consistent with the usage of the English language. 1) Can’t = legally unable to issue a preemptive pardon 2) Can’t = wouldn’t issue a preemptive pardon.
Since #1 is inconsistent with widely available facts and #2 is consistent with all known facts, the only reasonable stance is that #2 was what was intended.
Therefore #1 would be a lie or mistake, but interpretation #2 is not a lie.
If you are going to be that strict about the “can’t” vs “won’t” terms, we should be equally strict in observing that neither Snowden nor “Banksters” (whatever those are, legally) have been officially charged or officially pardoned. I have no idea how they can be used to demonstrate an inconsistency in his statements or position.
So there are two ways to interpret this statement that are consistent with the usage of the English language. //// No, the clear point made was that at issue is PRESIDENTIAL language.
Note the emphasis.
That is emphasis you seem to be introducing out of cloth to create an inconsistency. He did not use that word.
You seem to think that everything a president says is meant to be the strictest of legal interpretation. He was giving an interview and speaking off the cuff, not testifying in a court of law or a issuing prepared statement in any official context.
Mine interpretation is consistent with all his other words and actions; yours has him making an obvious lie for no reason.
I think we have to just agree to disagree.
Jeff A sticking with the first thought out of his head obdurately says:
11/26/2016 at 9:06 am
1. That is emphasis you seem to be introducing out of cloth to create an inconsistency. He did not use that word. /// In cloth, fully clothed, what I created was an example of CONSISTENCY. Obama CAN PARDON by way expressed statutory action, or “in effect” by refusing to prosecute the same crimes that he can pardon. The two actions have the same consistent effect: no jail time for guilty criminal parties. Seems obvious to me. What is the gap in your appreciation other than nuance?
2. You seem to think that everything a president says is meant to be the strictest of legal interpretation. He was giving an interview and speaking off the cuff, not testifying in a court of law or a issuing prepared statement in any official context. //// that is exactly correct. When the President speaks off the cuff ((if that is even what he was doing)) his words direct the destiny of many people involved or even the mood of the Nation as a whole…even the whole world. Most people will get corrected when incorrectly saying can’t instead of won’t because they have very different meanings………most of the time. If President O meant to say he could not “personally” pardon Snowden then THAT is what he should have said. Course…. if you are a fanboy of sloppy communications so you can make anything of it that you wish…I would continue to disagree. Words have Meaning.
3. Mine interpretation is consistent with all his other words and actions; yours has him making an obvious lie for no reason. //// All his other words? Ha, Ha …. he has uttered a lot of words. When else has he said can’t instead of won’t? Any vague recollection there?? It doesn’t matter…using can’t instead of won’t when its a lie that you agree is what it is, is for EMPHASIS and to stop debate and to win people to his side of the argument. Most politicians can’t stop themselves from such pandering. Put a “sic” after that last can’t…. to display the nuance thing and mys sense of humor and word-play.
4. I think we have to just agree to disagree. /// No. I do not agree/tolerate your refusal to apply dictionary meanings of words to Presidential announcements on whether groups of people go to jail or not for revealing illegal governmental and private mass surveillance of you and me. I just can’t do it.
I have no idea how they can be used to demonstrate an inconsistency in his statements or position. /// Either action is an example of Obama’s exercise of discretion within the powers that he is totally capable of doing.
I’ll put you down for a doorstop.
Oh that’s hilarious. Of course he is lying. He has been since was doing drugs in his buddies van.
He also said he can’t hand out amnesty by executive order, and then he did that.
Good news for us, bad news for all Dem’s!
Using this logic, he also cannot pardon Loretta Lynch, John Podesta, Donna Brazile, Harry Reid, and numerous other scum sucking lowlifes.
And don’t think they won’t get prosecuted. Just because Trump said he won’t pursue legal action against Hillary, that doesn’t mean Jeff Sessions or Congress won’t!
Re: “Har, thanks for clearing that up. Where was that bobbo filter I heard about?”
Yeah. What about that? I’d like one too.
Hmm, maybe I should commercialize it. And given how much JCD endorsed Google Books and said the authors who objected didn’t realize they are making more money from it, perhaps I should do my own version of the blog with the ads removed, call it Dvorak Unadded.
So Marc, you say Snowden deserves a pardon. How do you reconcile this with thinking that Trump is so horrible, Clinton had to be elected to stop him, and Wikileaks doing the opposite?
While I agree that it is total bull, this matter has nothing to do with Trump getting elected.
The F U to Washington is all about the economy, stupid. If people cared about their privacy, there would be no Facebook. Yet, it thrives!
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2011/09/10/republicans-dragging-us-toward-a-new-civil-war/comment-page-1/#comment-1897791
Five years ago I said:
Current events have proved me right once again. Obama was the moderate Republican. Bernie (who I supported) was the Democratic candidate. Clinton was the Republican candidate. The actual Republican party went over the edge into insanity and nominated Trump, who conned enough desperate people into voting for him to win. And here we are, with the inmates running the asylum. :/
The rest of my old comment:
You think Trump is going to make rich people pay their taxes? He’s already proposing to cut taxes for the rich and increase taxes on the non-rich. You think he’s going to prosecute rich lawbreakers with fancy lawyers? You think he’s going to establish a fair playing ground in the business world, Mr. Crony Capitalism himself? You think he’s going to stop spying on Americans? Dream on. 🙄
Not wrong or idiotic…. just so very hypocritically self centered.
Snowden is a complete traitor, why would anyone think he should be pardoned? Obama, is also a failure, but I have to agree with him on this one. Let Snowden fry as the terrorist he is.