I’m still wondering if I can get used to not having a dashboard. Very cool minimalistic look. What do you think?
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The Tesla 3 is a level self-driving is a Autonomous driving level 2 vehicle and needs the driver to take over in some circumstances. Eventually, AI will develop very sophisticated cars that do not require a driver.
The good news is that you can send you car to go get lunch.
The bad news, with the AI, the car thinks for itself.
Eventually, the car will say “Fuck this” and may try to escape to Canada or Mexico.
I enjoyed that episode of Silicon Valley where the AI Car drove they guy into a shipping container which was loaded onto a boat headed for China. Funny the way the car got the voice commands wrong.
I’d be very doubtful about voice following AI……… although my experience in the non-kinetic field of TV control via Comcast Infinity is pretty good. Sure does go thru batteries quickly though. Its goodxxxxxxxxxxxxx Ha, ha……I was gonna say “Its good to have an alternator….
The modern age.
“Almost autonomous” is scary.
Aren’t some pilots complaining they’re quickly losing their touch when it comes to manual landings and quick decision making?
What’s the future of driving tests?
Will a Tesla refuse to start if the designated driver is drunk?
Will you need to sign a EULA that renders the carmaker harmless if old tessy makes a wrong decision?
I don’t want a steering wheel. I want a joystick on the right and HOTAS on the left door so I can feel like a fighter pilot.
You don’t have bouts of spontaneous road rage do you?
Hope not!
Would be better without the screen. I don’t see any door handles either. Looks like Tesla reserves the right to lock you into your car until you pay up.
Screen looks fragile.
Entire interior of the car looks sturdy except that.
Children under the age of 5 will probably be fairly good at breaking those screens.
I would imagine in the future that screen would eventually find itself becoming part of the dash, solely for that reason.
Plus thieves will probably steal them,
So now, Tesla has to be not just a good automotive engineer, but also exceptional at user interface design for the dashboard. Very difficult to make it even close to as convenient as the normal setup with that screen. Perhaps that’s what’s needed to make it cultlike.
The real fuel saving would be in electric trucks, but that is not cool enough for cult folks.
Improving from 30 MPG to 50 MPG(67% increase) doesn’t save as much fuel as going from 10 to 12(20% increase)
You are operating on the idea that electric vehicles are more energy efficient.
I don’t know to what extent that is true. If it is true at all.
A Prius saves fuel mostly by avoiding most or nearly all combustion during idling and situations like coasting and harnessing energy (regenerative braking which helps batter charge).
This is not the same as electric being more efficient than fossil fuels.
When an electric car is sitting in a garage, it is wasting energy because the battery slowly loses charge, but a gasoline vehicle isn’t.
And electric cars will be sitting around on average 22 hours a day like most gasoline cars do.
It more has to do with the creative ways that we can generate electricity and the lack of emissions.
I was actually thinking of hybrids like the Prius and not electric at all. The general concept is the same, the big savings are in heavy fuel users and not cars whose equivalent gas versions get 25 MPG or higher.
There are efforts to implement Prius type fuel enhancement in heavy trucks.
However, heavy trucks are diesel fuel.
Not gasoline.
HM==why do you form even preliminary opinions when you have no facts at all?
Its easy to google efficiency levels.
Try it.
Electric vs combustion engine is not an apples to apples comparison.
Each type of energy has different sources of energy loss.
“Using electricity as an energy source requires two energy transformation steps, while using petroleum requires only one. With electricity, the original energy, usually chemical energy, must be transformed into electrical energy; and then the electrical energy is transformed into the kinetic energy of motion. With an internal combustion engine, the only transformation step is the conversion of chemical energy to kinetic energy in the combustion chamber.
The difference matters, because there is a lot of energy lost every time it is transformed or used. Electrical energy is harder to handle and loses more in its handling.”
HM—you crack me up. “Electric vs combustion engine is not an apples to apples comparison.” //// Gee…. what was the tip off? Was it………….. “Electric vs combustion?”
BWHWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Yea….so what you do is add them all up and compare. I have seen LOTS of articles about how electric is “not as efficient” as often thought……..but NONE that don’t conclude that “all in” they aren’t more efficient than internal combustion.
Have you found one ……. or do you just want to imagine???
You know one big problem with electric trucks is battery weight, right?
In order to have enough power for a heavy haul, the battery needs to be much larger.
Then you are also lugging around a huge heavy battery, adding significantly to cargo weight.
The irony in this situation is that the energy density of diesel scales well, but larger batteries do not scale well.
Wut? You are saying that electric vehicles are not the most efficient/effective choice for every application there is?
Why then……..let’s just throw the whole technology out…….. because oil burning engines are the most effective for every situation?
You know….. apples to garbage.
Tetraethyl lead increases gasoline and kerosene burn efficiency by 40%.
It still used in airplane fuel (propeller planes, not jets).
The guy that discovered tetraethyl lead’s effect on fuel efficiency also is the guy who developed freon (the ozone destroying CFC refrigerant).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.
Midgley was a brilliant chemist.
Ironically, if there is one single human who had the most negative effect on the environment — it would be Midgley. 🙂
Nice trivial pursuit factoid. I wonder what he would have come up with if assigned to work on batteries?
but not to worry. Its being worked on now.
Of interest to me is to minimize the need/function of batteries and move to some kind of active roadways that power vehicles, including trucks, with batteries only needed to move from system to system, from home to road, and so forth.
I haven’t seen but 2-3 articles on that. Huge potential there.
It’s worse than that. Tesla has to master automotive engineering, automotive manufacturing, interior design, exterior design, and now a new category of user interface design to handle the dashboard, as well as self-driving software.
Roomba is having trouble just excelling at both software and vacuuming/mopping. I think Tesla is needlessly adding too many places where they can fail.
Early dashboard prototype or stolen design?:
http://gasolinealleyantiques.com/transportation/images/Racers/racer-yellowlouverdark1.JPG
Where to hang?:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6130%2BunKzGL._SL1053_.jpg
Wow! This is really informative. Thank you for sharing this post.
Still looks like a fancy model T dash.
Good comment. The Tesla looks like the dash is made up of just a board put across that area. Ha, ha…..sure sounds like the etymology of the word.
I confused it with instrument panel. I’d be surprised if an option wouldn’t be made to have all the digital information present in a more standard (throw-back) analogue way.
I’d be surprised if it did. Anyone who asks for it will be considered a leper in the new world.
Lots of digital to analogue watches.
Very classy.
Yes, but not acceptable for the new cultists.
Interesting concept, drive a computer.
How many of you have experienced a computer crash, hardware or software? How many times has a software upgrade or patch cause a system lockup? Who wrote the software for the Tesla Model 3? I think this article http://tinyurl.com/y7zjr29t is a pretty good assessment of real world concerns regarding the Tesla Model 3.
You already several computers in your car.
Maybe dozens depending on the model.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_control_unit
First major hurricane to hit US since before Obama. Coincidence? I.THINK.NOT!
http://salon.com/2017/08/24/trump-just-flunked-his-first-natural-disaster-test/
At the time of the last one, we were told because of global warming we are going to see more and more of these major hurricanes. Instead we got the longest recorded streak of no hurricanes. 142 months, breaking old record of 86.
Basic logic says that If A then B means the same as If NOT B then NOT A.
So if people declared If global warming ther more hurricanes, and you got less(none) hurricanes, the conclusion is no global warming.
Too much logical reasoning. Rational thinking has no place here!
At the same time, we recorded the two largest hurricanes EVER. Along with record breaking higher and lower temps all over the place.
If A then B……given enough time.
If A and Not B ……. give it more time.
Idjit.
It looks like it would take forty clicks to change the volume on the radio!
If you want to see a proper dashboard, find yourself a 1961 Chrysler.
But, more to the point on “autonomous” vehicles is that they are programmed to abide by traffic laws. This will create an absolute disaster around here (west side of Los Angeles) as traffic here moves at basically two speeds. 1. stop and go, and 2. when not restricted by congestion, 15 mph over the posted limit. I predict they will be continually cut off by human drivers, to the point that they might just stand still.
At least, perhaps these cars will move when the light turns green instead of having their faces buried in their phone, like so many of drivers of German cars around here.
Love it:
http://hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1961-Chrysler-New-Yorker-Town-Country-Wagon-300-Resto-Mod-eBay-Google-Chrome-542014-50529-PM.bmp.jpg
And then there’s…
https://hollywoodscreens.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/plane.jpg
One of the advantages of AI cars is that the speed limit can be RAISED… and vehicles even form a close convoy to draft one another.
New Tech: new thinking.
In California? Where we are subject to “road diets” because some politicians think anyone driving 40 mph is a death threat? Not likely!
AI, with convoying and slip streaming is completely consistent with going green which is what road diet is all about.
You are confusing the two issues.
Who needs silly shit like SPEEDOMETERS or TURN SIGNALS?! Everyone uses their PHONE!!!
Let me see if I can sum up the mindset of the average motorist these days: “To hell with everyone else! Let me get in my mobile living room and it’s ‘game over’ for any bastard who gets in my way.”
So, ya. We ‘need’ more (stupid) reasons to get behind a steering wheel.
Thanks Elon. Thanks a LOT!
@Bobbo – re your comments
An electric car doesn’t have a fuel source. A combustion engine does.
The electric car battery was charged by something.
The power generation method is going to have several points of energy loss:
1) Transmission loss over the lines from the power grid (7-15%)
2) Loss at the charger — you think the charger converts 100% of electricity current to battery charge — it doesn’t — it loses 20-30%!
3) Energy lost as heat during battery to axle — 23%
But what is the power supply? Hydro? Coal? Natural gas? Solar?
If you going to try to compare electric to gasoline and you are counting the gasoline burn efficiency, you need to also factor in the efficiency of the fuel powering the electric car at the power plant to for the comparison to make sense.
That being said, components in electric vehicles suffer less wear and tear and last longer. But certain component like the battery also have their own environmental impacts in product.
You know Tesla batteries are lead acid batteries, right?
HM: its axiomatic that every energy application has a source for that energy. And as you confuse, that source can vary. Right now, the main source of energy for electric cars is coal. Easy to calculate the cost of the entire energy life cycle with the cost of the coal and its transportation being relatively high. Another source is Solar. Again…easy to calculate the cost of solar for the entire energy life cycle with the cost of the sunlight being zero…..thats a large part of what makes it cost competitive even without the environmental considerations.
………and so on with Wind, Hydro, Bio Mass, etc. Just add them all up and compare to internal combustion.
Solar wins.
Dithering on about accurate irrelevant issues doesn’t advance the argument. If you care to admit you can’t find the web resources …I could dip into that. They are there….I’ve linked to them before…. maybe not on this forum.
Sorry…….I think it is “minimal form” to answer all direct questions……….sic.
“You know Tesla batteries are lead acid batteries, right?” /// No. I thought the whole leading edge of Tesla cars was using a whole bunch of those little lithium 1.5 volt batteries put together?
Hmmmm….I might be projecting your question to the batteries used in the Tesla Walls or some other application that does use big heavy batteries because they are not mobile???? and therefore better for those applications??
Whatever. Whats the diff? From start to finish, with all costs in, electric vehicles are right now more efficient….and becoming even more efficient with each passing years. Cars are too….but they are on the chopping block of history.
“From start to finish, with all costs in, electric vehicles are right now more efficient”
Then the price of transportation per mile per pound would be lower for electric cars.
But it isn’t.
When it is, everyone will switch to electric vehicles simply due to economics.
The purpose of the tax credits for electric cars is to support the enhancement and development of a technology that is not yet completely commercially viable so that can evolve to get there.
1. ““From start to finish, with all costs in, electric vehicles are right now more efficient”
Then the price of transportation per mile per pound would be lower for electric cars. ///// No…..that doesn’t follow AT ALL.
Your logic, life experience, calm reflection, dare I say focus?……is very deficient. Not even a dictionary can fix this. Back to grade school for you.
2. When it is, everyone will switch to electric vehicles simply due to economics. /// Yes….if Big Auto doesn’t interfere… which they are prone to do as they do repeatedly. Why recall the EV-1 that was very popular just to destroy them????
Its always a mix of things and the best product doesn’t always win…….and it will take time for all the infrastructure to get in place. But…basically, long term, you are right.
3. The purpose of the tax credits for electric cars is to support the enhancement and development of a technology that is not yet completely commercially viable so that can evolve to get there. //// again: correct. Just note: the tax credits for internal combustion cars is to pay off political donors.
> EV-1 that was very popular
No, it wasn’t.
They weren’t?
Well………. that settles that.
Yes it does. They spent tens of millions to lease 1100 cars in 5 years.
So… why recall cars that are being leased to destroy them when the lesees desire to buy them?
To save on lawsuits down the road when the batteries go bad. Because of federal regulations they would have had to take more losses on repair parts. Made for a cool movie though.
200 cars a year that would price about $30k. That is not ‘very popular’.
Perhaps…..as if signing waivers wouldn’t work “if” you wanted electrical cars to overhaul your entire industry.
Lots of good solid “business” reasons to fight electric.
Makes one wonder what a for profit business should do?
Solar will eventually win.
Eventually electric engines will win.
Things are headed in the right direction.
Tesla uses lithium ion batteries.
Also, there is no engine, giving space for a front trunk.
You want a real scare?
Read this Tesla Emergency Response Guide!
http://tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/en_EU/emergency_response_guide.pdf#5
(I specially notice the WARNING:
After deactivation, the high voltage circuit requires two minutes to deplete.
Failure to handle a submerged vehicle without appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE) can result in serious injury or death.
ALWAYS ASSUME THAT ALL HIGH VOLTAGE COMPONENTS ARE ENERGIZED!)
Yea, I want to be a first responder…
So if you can’t hold your breathe for over two minutes, a submerged rescue is out of the question. Great.
Hey Elon, are oxygen tanks an option? How much?
Are you going 70 mph through a vineyard driving from the back seat?
Car shouldn’t start unless WAIS (warm ass in seat).
Better?: Deadman switch.
Best?: Challenge question every minute.
Ludites on a Dvorak tech blog, ironic. Electric vehicles are the future and the tantrums fighting the progress will eventually disappear.
jpfitz thinks this is a “tech blog”! AGGgggghahahhahahahehehehehehar.
😀 😃 😄 😁 😆 😅 😂 🤣
Electric cars don’t eliminate pollution, they just move it somewhere else — the power stations. A 100 MW coal-burning power station discharges 2 tonnes of uranium and 100 tonnes of heavy metals to the air every year, not to mention 100,000 tonnes of ash that has to be stored or dumped somewhere. More electric cars means more power stations. Electric cars also put out the same amount of brake and tire dust as conventional cars, mostly in breathable-sized particles.
I couldn’t use an electric car now. I’ve seen only one charging point in the city (Madrid) and having to run a cable from my 2nd floor apartment to the street doesn’t seem exactly practical (especially as I usually have to park a couple of blocks away).
They do not put up as much brake dust, because they operate the brakes by reversing the motor.
IIRC, from several years ago…the “all in” pollution for gas vs electric was about even with gas never getting better and electric being asymptotic to zero as society goes Green.
Your solution to reduce co2 is what?
Gas cars tend to boost efficiency by about 1.5% per year.
I don’t claim to have a solution to CO2 emissions. Persons infinitely more qualified than me are supposed to be working on the problem.
My solution is to wait for the cheap renewables you say are coming. No need to do more than that.
As usual, your solution is actually the very problem.
I want to just glance down and see gauges like a speedometer, tachometer, and gas gauge when I am driving. Sure I can look over a screen that doubles as a radio, car gauges, DVD player, and expresso maker, but I find that more distracting.
Aren’t some pilots complaining they’re quickly losing their touch when it comes to manual landings and quick decision making?
What’s the future of driving tests?
Will a Tesla refuse to start if the designated driver is drunk?
Will you need to sign a EULA that renders the carmaker harmless if old tessy makes a wrong decision?