“If we wash our hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless we side with the powerful — we don’t remain neutral.”
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Puh-Leaze. If the Mexican government suddenly declared it’s only purpose in life was to destroy America and “take back” North America for all Mexicans, and they started shooting homemade missiles across the border, and they started blowing up churches and malls and schools…
…how long would it be before we turned Mexico into a gulag?
You can’t reason with crazy.
What do Eid and Phydeau think should be done with those returning to the US after fighting for ISIS?
Your example is a hypothetical. I feel the original article vastly oversimplifies the issues at play and the various parties who each have their own agenda. Peace in this region will only occur when there is an alignment among the various agendas for a large enough majority that it begins a cycle reinforcing peace internally. Any reference to what has transpired in the past is going to always detract from peace and it will be used as a tool by all sides to avoid peace, knowingly and unknowningly.
A large factor is outside players who get involved and assume they can push their own agenda and remain free of all the other agendas at play. If external players were really intent on getting peace into the region, they would remain free of entanglement while remaining focussed on an untarnished agenda of peace
Until that happens, other countries will continue to get pulled in and players in the region will continue to pursue their own agendas.
Peace in this region will only occur when there is an alignment among the various agendas for a large enough majority that it begins a cycle reinforcing peace internally.
What agenda will that be?
Israel agreeing with the Palestinians or vice versa?
“Not allowed to leave” by Hamas fighters who launch rockets, and force residents to stay in their buildings so they can suffer casualties when Israel launches a counterattack. Journalists who report this suffer consequences at the hands of Hamas.
But Eiditor helpfully posts a Hamas approved video.
This is an example of public manipulation by phony media.
Just one more reason to turn the whole place into GLASS!
Hell! Even the moronic “bible boners” want their beloved “Armageddon” to occur. So I say, GIVE IT TO THEM!
(In case you’re another victim of public education, glass is made from SAND! And when you heat sand with something like a nuclear bomb…)
When the the so called, educated and enlightened portion of society understand that IGNORANCE CAN ‘T REASON?! Ignorance only understands a punch in the nose
Israel is surrounded by Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and beyond that Libya, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia. Outnumbered 50-1, and somehow Israel is the powerful one. Palestinians could go to the Palestinian state of Jordan, though it is becoming less Palestinian because Sunni Syrians are fleeing there. Where will Israelis go? Is Jew hatred that strong?
Palestinians once were in Jordan!
King Abdullah I of Jordan invited in the Palestinians and gave them a generous land grant. He gave the Palestinians a homeland.
They did the King of Jordan a great big Thank You by trying to kill him.
Read this to understand the real reason why the Palestinians don’t have a homeland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassination
The assassin was of the tribe of Husseini.
Yasser Arafat was of the same tribe, and he didn’t stop at the first try.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/9/newsid_4461000/4461735.stm
The Palestinians put in power and kept in power leadership determined to overthrow and kill their neighbors.
Wonder why no one wants them??
Did I say “Trying to kill him”? They DID kill the first King of Jordan (their benefactor) and tried many times to kill the subsequent ruler King Hussein.
Jordan actually conquered the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem and held them for 20 years. She changed her name to Trans-Jordan in the process Funny, there didn’t seem to be much whining about occupation by Jordan from liberals during those 20 years.
Good point. As long as it’s arab on arab, or black on black, or black on white,
No one cares.
“If we wash our hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless we side with the powerful — we don’t remain neutral.”
Nice to know Eiditor now opposes Communism. Or was this a reference to abortion?
On second thought, Eiditor is just saying he is neutral between Communist leaders and their subjects.
The USA will not help/hinder any nation until the Corp mentality wishes to USE that country for its own means..
At the cost of USA lives FOR min wage military..
Hey I just came up with a something.
Talking about public perception of race crime, specially by the left.
Brown kills Brown: No one cares.
Brown kills White: No one cares.
Black kills White: No one cares.
White kills White: No one cares.
White kills brown or White kills black:
NEWSWORTHY! (Even when in self defense)
Israelis are white. Arabs are brown.
End of story.
Like George Zimmerman, the White Hispanic, lots of Israeli Jews are brown.
The Israelis need a solution — a Final Solution — to their Palestinian problem.
As long as two peoples are in conflict in the same geographic region, they will likely remain in conflict until one of them is exterminated.
Look at what the Europeans did to the natives in America. (Of course they had disease to help; they didn’t have to put all of the natives to the sword).
Israel will not have peace by killing Palestinians, until all the Palestinians are gone.
Does Israel have the balls to commit genocide on the Palestinians, so soon after genocide was attempted on them?
If so, they’ll have to hurry. Israel is facing a demographic threat, as the Palestinians in Israel are having more children than the Jews are. Your move, Israel.
Republicans and right-wingers have a long history of anti-Jewish bigotry. It’s creepy to see them “support” Israel, just for their wacky fundy End Times religious beliefs. Jews will be among the first to burn when Jesus comes again. 🙄
>As long as two peoples are in conflict in the same geographic region, they will likely remain in conflict
Is that your tautology of the day?
You know most wars do not end in genocide? Even the Palestinian nation of Jordan made peace with Israel.
True, most wars don’t end in genocide. But how long has this one been going on? This is no normal war.
They’ve been fighting for two thousand years now. It’s bound ot be over soon.
The Jordanians stopped fighting. Egyptians cut a deal too. Even the Saudis have greenlit Israeli jets flying over their airspace.
Those aren’t the Palestinians.
Yes they are.
Don’t be coy. Tell us the answer you are thinking.
“If we wash our hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless we side with the powerful — we don’t remain neutral.” //// Well, if one side in a “conflict” are powerless….there is no conflict…just submission. so, as so much in politics does, it sounds kinda nice until you try to make any kind of sense out of it.
…………AND………..Its not valid to say because the more powerful side is protecting their interests that they are automatically wrong or at fault or need to stop what they are doing.
Its hard to think…..but still worthwhile.
Try it.
Phydeau with uncharacteristic brutal and insightful real politik says:
3/2/2015 at 7:08 pm
The Israelis need a solution — a Final Solution — to their Palestinian problem. //// …… and I agree in both the plain language and the historical allusion. There simply is no reason to allow a minority within your control to exist when its goal is your own destruction. The only justification I can see for Israel to keep any PLO advocate in vivo is concern for another Arab Wide war against Israel….. I mean…. how often can Israel expect to single handedly beat the combined forces of Arabia?
How many times has Israel been invaded, they fight back, invade and occupy theretofore foreign land and then “for peace” they give it back? Kinda a free shot? No other nation has done that…..absent the same geopolitical concern.
So….the Powerful Israels vs the Powerless PLO?….. or is it the other way around????
How about Powerful Israel vs the Powerless Persians????? ((If we define power as having nukes or not?)).
I don’t see how Israel can “not” bomb the shit out of Iran on the eve of them going nuke. and if that only sets the Iranians back 2 years……..then that pretty much sets the time schedule for the next grass mowing.
What would you “actually DO” if you believed someone was out to kill you? Just….. hope they don’t?????
Silly Hoomans…..get killed.
Because Obama threatened to shoot down Israeli planes. Or so reported Kuwaiti news.
Only a nut case would believe Obama would say that, or if said, that it would stop Israel.
Sadly, it all comes down to AGW:
http://wired.com/2015/03/global-warming-helped-cause-syrian-war/
Only a nutcase would believe global warming caused war in Syria.
Foreign policy adviser to candidate Obama, former National Security Adviser to Carter, Zbigniew said that should be the policy with regards to an Israeli attack on Iran. Obama i already upset that they bombed an Iranian military outpost at the Syrian border. More likely he told Israel to stand down and refused assistance.
It’s not clear that Israel can stop the Iranian program. They held it back with Flame, Stuxnet and the secret successors. However, it is not like their is a single giant reactor like the Iraqis built.
Something is wrong when the Saudis are more supportive of Israel than the US president.
It is clear which country in the Middle East is most similar to the US, the most civilized.
You might find this hard to believe, MikeN, but Israel’s interests are not identical to American interests. Brace yourself: We might not support something Israel does! Incredible but true!
And the Saudis are just natural allies of course.
They have oil. We want oil.
So we should be doing what the Saudis want, not the Saudis doing what the Israelis want.
We’ve been cozy with them for decades. :/
Well then bobbo, Israel should put their money where their mouths are. Carpet bomb the Gaza strip until nothing is moving. Carpet bomb any areas currently under Palestinian control. Round up the Palestinians in Israel. Maybe they should put, oh I don’t know, yellow crescents on their clothes so it can be determined who goes to the concentration camps. Very efficient that way. They should read up on what the Germans did in WWII. The Germans are a very efficient people, maybe the Israelis can follow their example in exterminating the Palestinians.
What do you think bobbo? Makes sense?
Ahmadenijad said that in Iranian attack on Israel would wipe them out while a counterattack would only wipe out a small portion of the Muslim world.
And people like you and Eideard would afterwards be worried about a backlash against Muslims.
Ah the history expert who declared the Native Americans were wiped out.
You are probably with Obama in thinking it had nothing to do with an attack on Jews and was just some random extremist violence by the Germans.
Wow, some serious Sarah-Palin-grade word salad. Thanks for the effort, MikeN.
Phydeau—that is what YOU posted, and I only agreed in broader strokes…the real politik, not the tactics.
I don’t like it, I don’t advocate it. I just recognize the truth of it.
LAND–is owned by no one. It is only occupied by force of arms.
What should ANYONE DO who is faced with an often and repeated existential threat to their existence? I suppose creating settlements in an inbetween position to take during the hiatus of war. Eventually, Israel will feel the threat against them close enough to indeed “wipe out” their opposition. Push them into Egypt, or allow a forced march to Jordan or Syria….but the enemy has to be expelled.
……….or……. accept the same fate yourself….as promised by the same foe.
Like an argument: take your position to its logical conclusion……..then act with clarity and resolve.
“Are you talkin’ to me?”
OK then, a forced march out of their home, where they have lived for generations. They’ll be sad, maybe crying… you could call it a Trail of Tears.
I suppose that’s better than killing them all.
And they’ll just settle down in their new homes without protest, without anger at the people who took their homes. No problem, eh? Peace at last, no doubt!
Phydeau–I think you have stripped a gear or two. What you lament happened in 1948.
Expelling the rabble from the Gaza strip to other Arab Lands could only benefit Israel. Instead of a simmering cess pool of daily rockets and tunnels being dug, the Death to Israel crowd will have their ardor diluted by the daily grind spent with their Arab brothers.
It benefits every Nation to make their enemies cross a national border rather than have living among them.
Its the nature of man, religion, society, and history.
Doesn’t work that way bobbo. The Palestinian refugees that are in Arab countries outside of Jordan, don’t assimilate but are kept in camps for when they return to Israel. Arab League formally adopted a policy of not allowing citizenship in host countries.
Indeed, many in the West Bank and Gaza call themselves returnees who under UN resolution have a right to return to Israel.
Well bobbo, I don’t know what the answer is. But I do know that what they’ve been doing for the last few decades hasn’t been working. There is no peace.
Maybe we should support people who are trying something different, rather than the same old thing that we know doesn’t work.
Thats true Mike. Very nasty Muslims those Arab brothers be…….
Still….I’m not saying or implying that anyone would LIKE this result. But Israel would be better off with the refuge camps being in Egypt or Jordan rather than in Gaza or Israel proper.
Real Politiks: “is politics or diplomacy based primarily on power and on practical and material factors and considerations, rather than explicit ideological notions or moral or ethical premises.”
Israel has always claimed to be the more moral actor in this fight. If they’re really just going with realpolitik, then it’s all about power, not about being right. So why should we support one side over the other when it’s just a grubby power struggle?
Because one side is more like us, the other is less civilized.
Jordan is the one exception, with its until recently Palestinian majority, that gave full citizenship.
So bombing with planes and tanks is civilized, and bombing with IEDs and hidden rockets is uncivilized. Gotcha.
>Well bobbo, I don’t know what the answer is.
Don’t be coy. tell us the answer you are thinking.
The typical wingnut answer. I know this is hard for you to believe, MikeN, but not everyone knows everything, like you do. Some of us are actually not sure of what should be done, and admit it. It doesn’t make us any less of a man to admit ignorance. You should try it some time. 🙄
Oh no, you are thinking of an answer. This faux balance between two sides is just an act.
pedro says:
3/2/2015 at 11:13 pm
Nah, it’s the typical liberul copout of protesting US interventions while at the same time nagging that the US doesn’t intervene like they want, how they want, where they want. //// Thats more a right wing neo-con chickenhawk position than liberal.
While, at the same time, argue how Russia has all the right in the world to “ /// All the right to….or just real politik when Russia acts just like USA would do???
By the same token, I’ve never gotten a satisfactory explanation on how commies are so taken by right wing muslim extremist regimes from the cold war eras to this day. /// Mostly a proxy position vs the USA.
Simple stuff Pedro. I assume you know it as well as I do, yet you do a good job of playing stupid. Why you do that?
Phydeau says:
3/3/2015 at 12:35 pm
Well bobbo, I don’t know what the answer is. But I do know that what they’ve been doing for the last few decades hasn’t been working. There is no peace.
Maybe we should support people who are trying something different, rather than the same old thing that we know doesn’t work. //// More stripped gears….BECAUSE…. a new approach is exactly what you posted and I agreed with. A FINAL SOLUTION—to break the log jam you just identified, aka, trying to make peace with the PLO rather than do to them first what the PLO has tried and failed to do about 5 times now?
I do fear for Israel. They are too religious and may fail to keep their boots on their enemies’ throats. Its why I admire Netanyahu–a real patriot (for Israel) recognizing and telling shit from shinola. Something I thought Obama did as well when he criticized Israel for building settlements…….he just doesn’t accept what that situation MEANS in real politik terms. Acting too much like a community organizer………………..
Weak sister.
That security fence seems to have done some good. Of course that was also decried as Apartheid by the likes of you and Eideard.
I’ve never said anything like that and Eideard has never said anything.
So right wing of you===ie, stupid or dishonest or both.
That was a response to Ginger Phydeau.
Netanyahu is not as tough as you think. He lost reelection because he tried to give the Golan Heights to Syria. In retrospect, making a deal with Syria if he could break them from Iran was a good move.
Phydeau says:
3/3/2015 at 12:40 pm
Israel has always claimed to be the more moral actor in this fight. If they’re really just going with realpolitik, then it’s all about power, not about being right. So why should we support one side over the other when it’s just a grubby power struggle?
////// because: Real Politik.
I’m not following. You think it’s in America’s best interests to support everything Israel does?
I think not. Israel is just another group battling for control over a country, doing whatever nasty evil thing they must to beat their enemy, without considerations of morality or rightness. That’s realpolitik. Why should we support one grubby nasty group over another?
Stop insulting Muslims like that. You’ll lose your honorary membership. And there, excommunication has consequences.
Please copy and paste where I ever addressed what USA’s interests are.
I think I did…about 2-3 years ago???
but, to short circuit your flight of fantasy any position framed as “everything” is….simpleminded and wrong. You need to stop responding to Peedrole and sharpen your skills.
You are using the word, but not correctly. Every country touts morality and rightness for the politics of the masses, but every country ACTS in its own self interest, or realpolitik, as it may perceive it, or as its perceived by and for its leadership. When the self interest of two countries happen to coincide that is not support of one country for another…. its just that coincidence.
Well, I’m not buying Israel’s marketing that it’s the most moral and upstanding country in the Middle East.
>Well, I’m not buying Israel’s marketing that it’s the most moral and upstanding country in the Middle East.
If forced to live in a country in the Middle East, where would you go? Israel is clearly the most civilized country, most similar to America. Ten years ago, Turkey might have been a reasonable option.
Israel is most like the US culturally. But the way they treat the Palestinians is disgraceful. Not that the Palestinians are angels either. Plenty of blame to go around.
http://thenation.com/blog/199953/10-reasons-im-praying-aipacs-decline
Yes, it’s The Nation, but there are plenty of links… it’s well sourced.
And I can already hear the black-and-white knee-jerk reactions from the wingnuts… No, this doesn’t mean I think Israel is evil and the Palestinians are saints. Plenty of bad and good to go around.
Anyone? Bueller?
No, of course not. It’s so much easier to ignore the bad things the government of Israel has done and paint them as 100% pure victims of the evil Palestinians.
Fits much better into black-and-white wingnut world.
Sorry, I mean fits much better into the black-and-white world of people who hold extreme, and often irrational, political views usually with a religious overtone. 😉
What that the UN and International Criminal Court is overrun by zealots like yourself and Eideard?
All that shows is why the US should not join the International Criminal Court. Boycott, Divest, and Sanction the ICC.
MikeN says:
3/3/2015 at 11:51 am
It’s not clear that Israel can stop the Iranian program. They held it back with Flame, Stuxnet and the secret successors. However, it is not like their is a single giant reactor like the Iraqis built.
Something is wrong when the Saudis are more supportive of Israel than the US president. /// It is clear that if Iran goes Nuke, then Israel will be struck. The only issue is how obvious it will be directly or indirectly “from” Iran. It will be a smuggled bomb in a truck…not an ICBM.
I don’t know why bombing the infrastructure of Iran would not terminate the Nuke program. Sure, I suppose they possibly could keep the program going….but bombs do damage to an economy and people do rise up when they are given promise of more bombing in the future vs food in their stomachs.
Iran is on the ropes economically already. If they weren’t religious fanatics and the Grand Sponsor of Terror Groups all over the Middle East, they would give up their Nuke program for the good of their economy already. They aren’t…….. and thats very telling.
“It is clear that if Iran goes Nuke, then Israel will be struck”
Really bobbo? I find that hard to believe. With all the old Soviet nukes floating around, if Iran really wanted to nuke Israel, they could have done it already without building their own. I think you’re believing the Iranian chest beating a little too much. :/
For the guy who mock lectures on German history, now he says ‘I think you’re believing the Iranian chest beating a little too much.’
Now you’re an expert on international arms too?
I remember meeting people like you in the first Gulf War, MikeN. You were the ones quivering in fear that Saddam was going to invade and conquer America. Cowardly idiots then, cowardly idiots now.
Thats a good point Phydeau. Probably a mixture of several different issues. Pride, hubris, keeping it a secret, wanting more than just one.
……….but they are………patient.
Israel is more and more becoming bonded with the right wing in America. Not such a smart thing for Israel, putting all their eggs in one wacked out basket. 🙂
Yes, in your mind the smart thing for Israel is as with residents of other countries is to do as the Muslims want.
Thanks for the wingnut “thoughts” on the issue, MikeN. 😉
Israel is more and more becoming bonded with the right wing in America
Interesting comment there.
I bet David Duke has a nightmare whenever he finds himself in agreement with Obama on Israel.
And just for the record, I think Israel is more than capable of defending itself. The problem that comes into play is if Russia starts supplying heavy duty military gear to her enemies. Large countries have been fighting proxy wars since man started drawing lines in the sand.
Phydeau says:
3/3/2015 at 3:39 pm
Israel is more and more becoming bonded with the right wing in America. Not such a smart thing for Israel, putting all their eggs in one wacked out basket. 🙂
///// You really need to think more clearly than you are demonstrating on this issue. Lets parse:
Israel is more and more becoming bonded with the right wing in America. ///// “Israel” is not doing anything. Nations as well as Corporations are not people and most ideas flowing from such characterizations are gross generalizations and mostly wrong. I assume you are actually talking about Netanyahu? Read your own link above:
http://thenation.com/blog/199953/10-reasons-im-praying-aipacs-decline
where it says: “AIPAC’s support of the Israeli prime minister over the US president is turning AIPAC into a Republican-biased lobby, which could prove fatal to its future influence in Washington.” Note the distinctions made here compared to your more loose construction….most relevantly to the notion of “bonding” to a position that “could prove fatal.” Who wants to bond to that????
Understand realpolitik: it doesn’t matter what Israel or Netanyahu does or Obama or USA or Congress or the Pukes or AIPAC does day to day. What happens is the gravity of the recognized self interest. USA will use Israel and vice versa as long as and only for as long as each or either sees the relationship as beneficial to them: Traditionally, as a counter to Russia and upstart Arab entities.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Not such a smart thing for Israel, putting all their eggs in one wacked out basket. 🙂 /// I think they kept a few eggs out for their own use? You should stop putting over emphasis on the headline of the day/week. There are public and back channels all over the place=====NOT===just what Netanyahu is doing this week with Congress. Wasn’t there a recent post on how newsmedia headline issues are all manipulations????
Don’t be manipulated.
Try this: “What if everything I read is BS?”===Not everything is……. just most of it.
Bobbo, when Israelis continue to support right-wing leaders like Netanyahu, and continue to support actions like the West Bank settlements, I say that “Israel” is becoming more right wing, and more aligned with right-wingers in the USA.
You’re in bed with the wingnuts on this issue, bobbo.
Israel actually uprooted Israelis from their homes and handed it to Palestinians.
You mean the homes they never should have been rooted in, in the first place, because it was Palestinian territory on the West Bank? Those Israelis?
While I haven’t heard the entire speech yet it certainly sounded like the Netanyahu showed what an idiot we have trying to run our country. The petulant little Obobo got his feelings hurt by being shown up on the world stage as the little man he is.
I’ve been in the middle east and yes, the last time I was there some of it looked like the shithole in the video. That’s what those people want and that’s what they got.
You wingnuts are trying to undermine the efforts of the president of the United States. When that idiot Dubya was in office (being manipulated by Cheney) you called that giving aid and comfort to the enemy. And so you are doing now.
Why do you hate America so much?
Do you think you can use the term “wingnut” a little more often? I just never get enough of it.
lol
wingnut wingnut wingnut
I suppose I could go with wikipedia and say “a person who holds extreme, and often irrational, political views usually with a religious overtone” but that’s way too much typing. 🙂
Hmmm… APWHEAOIPVUWARO… no, the abbreviation isn’t any better. 🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingnut_%28politics%29
As one person who uses the term has said:
I could add a lot more to that list of wingnuttery, but you get the idea. Any suggestions for polite names? 🙂
“Any suggestions for polite names?”
Nope, just keep digging that hole.
Sorry if I’ve offended your delicate sensibilities, McCullough. If only I could be as polite and well-spoken as the people here who hold extreme, and often irrational, political views usually with a religious overtone. 😉
Netanyahu was spectacularly wrong about the Iraq war:
Now he wants us to stop diplomacy with Iran, and go to war with them, because it’ll all work out so well, just like Iraq!
You wingnuts are not only traitors for allying with a foreign power trying to weaken the president, you’re idiots too.
But that fact won’t stop you. CheneyBush was so spectacularly wrong about so many things regarding Iraq… “They will greet us as liberators” etc… and yet you still believe in them.
As Harlan Ellison once said, “The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.”
Spot on, Cheney and the ‘Tard were wrong about Iraq.
But Obama is never wrong about anything. Oh that’s right, he has lied AND been wrong about just about everything.
Funny that.
So true.
In my life I have never seen a more stupid president that Obobo and I had to deal with Jimmy Carter.
Wrong about everything, eh? I love the cool analytical reasoning of the wi…^H^H^H people who hold extreme, and often irrational, political views usually with a religious overtone.
Thank you for your cooperation….carry on.
Yes, everything.
We could go on all day about all the bad decision and stupid hist Obobo has done and probably on into the next week or so to list them all.
BTW I’m a secular humanist and libertarian. I don’t like either party (or Ron Paul).
So (just out of morbid curiosity) you think that Obama is wrong in everything he did. So if he was wrong, then every time he disagreed with the Republicans, he should have done what the Republicans wanted?
That doesn’t sound like a wild’n’tough’n’free Libertarian, that sounds like a typical Republican trying to pretend he’s independent. 🙄
Why do you libertarians even bother? You’re just useful puppets for the fat cats who run the Republican party.
Give it up Diesel, most people just cannot believe there is any other alternative to D’s and R’s.
Wait for it in 3,2,1
Hit it!
Diesel and McCullough, you can keep living your libertarian fantasy. If the truth hurts too much, you can ignore that you’re just helping the Republican party. The idiotic libertarian hatred of regulation plays right into the hands of the Republican fat cats.
You want a true third party, fine. There are plenty of liberals who don’t like the Democrats sucking up to the big money.
But if you really want to free the politicians from influence of the rich you’d be in favor of campaign finance reform, and repealing Citizens United. Us liberals are up in arms about that and are trying to get that done. But you “conservatives” just shrug your shoulders about it. And the corruption continues.
What do you call 500 politicians at the bottom of the ocean?
About 40 short.
Yes, as a Libertarian I’m prone to help the Rs for some things but I support Ds for some things as well.
Politicians are an essential part of civilization. If you don’t like civilization, go somewhere else, like Ethiopia, or Honduras, they’ve got a libertarian fantasy hellhole going on there lately.
But don’t f*ck with my civilization.
Oh geez, here I am again, trying to converse rationally with libertarians!
Forget everything I said.
So you’re not “Ready for Hillary”, one of the worst offenders?
Sure, sure.
If you don’t want politicians elected who are beholden to fat cats, then work to get campaign finance reform done and Citizens United repealed.
Politicians do what they have to do to get elected. If they have to suck up to fat cats, they’ll do it. Democrats, Republicans, or anyone else.
Let’s change the system so they don’t have to suck up to fat cats.
Hating politicians is pointless, immature, and childish.
Phydeau says:
3/4/2015 at 10:42 am
…… The idiotic libertarian hatred of regulation plays right into the hands of the Republican fat cats. /// Yea, verily and thats just a nice restatement of the very OP.
Lieberatardians suffer from thinking “they” get to exercise their own free will if gubment isn’t restricting their desires………..but that is so demonstrably: FALSE.
When the gubment is not making (and enforcing) the rules….its not freedom… its someone ELSE making and enforcing the rules. As you say: the Republican Fat Cats. THE RICH with their money. “♫…We all have to serve someone….”
More nasty hooman behavior.
Phydeau says:
3/4/2015 at 6:30 am
You’re in bed with the wingnuts on this issue, bobbo.//// WHAT?!?!?!?!===CALLING ME a wingnut???? I’ve never been cut so deeply……so….. lets parse….. because its only in (initial) disagreement that one can grow.
Bobbo, when Israelis continue to support right-wing leaders like Netanyahu, //// key words are continue and support. Netanaohu has been in and out of office as the Israeli electorate searches for peace/and/secrurity with the Arab Demagogues at their throats. Support as with Netanyahu ebbs and flows with the time frame in question. I thought the main motivation for Netanyahu’s speech before USA Congress was the fact his election in Israel 2 weeks from now is too close to call and he is trying to rally/increase support for his views? IE==not the insidious creep you postulate.
and continue to support actions like the West Bank settlements, /// Yes, a whole lot of realpolitik going on with the settlements. Should Israel (sic per above) keep the land barren so that at some point in time when the PLO “promises” not to wipe the Jews from the face of the earth at least stop saying that they will have contiguous lands from which to form a viable (military) state…or since they have won every land war should they occupy just a bit for their strategic needs? People may differ. I suppose the “right” wing in Israel supports this, while the lefties want to carve out part of their holdings to give the PLO a homeland??? Very dangerous. Nations in general don’t succeed by giving comfort to their enemies. The numbers have to be overwhelming in favor of the Liberal Nation–like the USA and Natives…..and look at the shit we get now as they struggle for more independence and “rights” because…. you know…. they want as much as they can get….. just like everyone else. A contest. All settled on basis of realpolitik.
I say that “Israel” is becoming more right wing, and more aligned with right-wingers in the USA. /// Ah…when you kept interjecting “right wing” I thought you meant the right wing in the USA. What you say makes more sense if you are moreso linking to the right wing in Israel. Yes….I see the right wing connection…just on a different bird.
Hmmmmm….am I “in bed?”//// I do support Israeli’s right to exist and to KILL anyone who would wipe them from the face of the Earth, including taking out as much of Iran as needed to stop them from getting Nukes. Thats how every country in history has acted…or they have gone out of existence.
/////// I’m not decided on settlements. I like it, because it shows resolve to ultimately push the infection out of their country and protect (their own) future generations. But…. purely pragmatically, is it the best way to move??? I don’t know.
Think of this: was a two state solution what Abraham Lincoln should have stood for? I can’t think of any two state anything that doesn’t contain within it the seeds of future larger disputes.
Being hooman……….its nasty business. You either get real about the politiks………or you get dead.
Simple.
I dunno about carving out a “homeland” for Palestinians. The bantustans didn’t work too well in South Africa, so I suspect there needs to be some kind of one-state solution.
And I stand by my original statement: If Israel is going to try to solve this problem by killing, they will have to kill all the Palestinians who think it’s their land and Israel is illegitimate. We’re talking genocide. Good luck with that.
Good luck to both the Jews and the Palestinians. It’s a sad situation.
Well, we made it to the same page. It is a right wing position…… ha, ha. “Kill all my enemies.”
Indeed, its not “civilized.”….. but when societies mature to the point where they are not willing or able to kill their enemies….. they falter and are lost to history.
—can’t find that neat chart of civilizations over time–I think only China has made the long haul…one other.
Histomap of World Civilizations:
https://pinterest.com/pin/416723771742276327/
Well this isn’t “kill my enemies that are threatening from the outside”, this is “this country isn’t big enough for the both of us, so you must die.” A little different, but it has happened…
Well, it is all definitional and degrees of similarities and differences but Gaza is outside even if occupied.
You can have multi-linguistic societies and multi-religious societies and even multi-cultural societies ……..but you can’t have……. societies where one large faction wants to kill the other faction.
The only solution that works, the final solution, is one faction kills the others.
Realpolitik.
Well, good luck getting the rest of the world on board with slaughtering all Palestinians.
For me, that’s a horrific thing to contemplate, especially for a group that not so long ago was on the other side of the genocide equation. They wanted their homeland, and they got it, but at what cost? The world is already condemning Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_Israel
Can an Israel that is exterminating all Palestinians expect continued unquestioning support from the US? Not if I have anything to say about it. Let them commit genocide without our help. 🙁
Yep…..I’ll put you down as a miniscule short yellow line on the HistoMap.
Lots of overgeneralized conflationary thinking going on: like all genocides are the same?
Nazis: genocide against innocent people
Israelis: genocide against nazi like racists who want to kill them.
See the difference?
But……..I’m not actually talking about genocide. Rather: push them out of the country…. and out of Gaza,,,,, let their Arab Brothers kill them, directly, or by starvation, illness, poverty, ghetoization.
And keep in mind: I’m NOT ADVOCATING anything. Just recognizing the obvious: how nations survive or perish….. usually by the decisions of very few people….. (those in power).
Wow bobbo, debating the fine points of different kinds of genocides.
I got nothing more to say on this.
Dammit Bobbo, I hate when I agree with you.
Israel has the ability to wipe out the Palestinians, and probably Iran as well, but hasn’t. It also does not profess the desire to do so. Iran has openly stated that it would like to wipe Israel off the map. It’s just a matter of time before they have the ability. And if Palestinians had the capability to erase Israel, is there any doubt they would?
Dogears==I welcome your disagreement…when it arises. No manufactured trolling here.
Phydeau: There is no fine point between killing innocent people versus killing those who would kill you. If it was you or the other guy, who would leave the room? ……… Now….. just scale up.
Bobbo, Phydeau isn’t agreeing with you. He is inching towards his solution. The Palestinians or someone else wipes out the Jews.
Phydeau like any independent thinking person agrees and disagrees with me, point by point.
I think he does suffer a bit from liberal wishy washiness, but that reveals more of a good heart than any other thing. I have faith he can reason to his own conclusions.
Not so for the knee jerk nay sayers and dog whistle Fundies who vote straight ticket. Those are:
Silly Hoomans.
No, NFS… just because you want the Jews to wipe out the Palestinians, doesn’t mean I want the Palestinians to wipe out the Jews. I’m in favor of no genocide by anyone. I know, what a sissy! 🙄
And bobbo, I don’t think it’s wishy washy, more practical, to be against genocide and want to find ways for people to resolve their differences.
And plus, Israel would get its ass kicked by the world if it started slaughtering Palestinians.
Just saying.
Phydeau says:
3/4/2015 at 11:22 am
Hating politicians is pointless, immature, and childish. /// No…. its moreso the basis and starting point to take effective political action. Sadly…… the game is rigged and with only rare exception third parties don’t work. The idea is seductive…. but just look at and learn and use HISTORY. Third parties are good to the degree they force change within the two existing main camps. We see that effect all the time.
I support third party movements but ultimately don’t throw away my vote getting the worst of the two candidates.
Recognizing when you can and can’t have what you want and dealing effectively with what your real choices are is……..indeed…. all part of growing up.
Main stream politics gives us mainstream politicians gives us too much of the status quo. Change really does only come by revolution (of sorts). Open primaries, gerrymandering reform… you see a few bright spots until the activist right wing supreme court flouts 100 years of settled law to get their druthers.
Money is not speech. Corporations are not people.
Simple, key realities.
The game is rigged because money is the name of the game. The more we can get money out of the equation, the fairer the game will be. Good luck to us with that activist Republican Supreme Court, as you mentioned…
Here’s your Republican party, so touchingly concerned over the plight of Jews in Israel, but not against using anti-Jewish bigotry in political maneuvering…
http://stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/auditor-schweich-had-called-seeking-an-interview-just-before-his/article_879ddcd7-c997-5df3-bc61-39282c4f7434.html
Really, you’re going to complain about Republican anti-Jew politicking. Yea it’s all that party. Sure.
Agree or disagree with Phydeau….but he gave a link in support of his position.
Until YOU DO…. you got nothing.
Actually, he didn’t. I think I could come up with better links than that showing Republicans are anti-Jew.
Obama meets with Al Sharpton. That’s as anti-Jew as you can get, this side of Eideard’s calls for Boycott Divest and Sanction.
Is that all you got, NFS? Really? Obama met with someone who’s anti-Jewish? You’re funny.
And BDS isn’t anti-Jew, it’s anti-Israel government. But I see you’ve bought the Israeli government propaganda on the subject. Though I’m sure there are anti-Jewish people who support it too.
And of course there’s a long documented history of Republican anti-Jewish bias. That story just happened to be the latest one in a long line.
Compared to Ginger’s whisper link, a more convincing link is to Obama’s childhood poem about apes and figs. (The first poem is much more disturbing)
http://loc.gov/rr/program/bib/prespoetry/bo.html
Well NFS, you’ll have to name and connect those links for me.
Phydeau DID link to items revealing the Republican Party playing on anti-Jewish sentiment.
Your link to Obamas Poetry is up your own ass and no where else. Now…no link..but a general reference to Al Sharpton? Like the poetry==if both instances 100% deep seated hatred of Jews and the Jewish Stae==wtf does that have to do with the internal and public workings of the Puke Party?
Sad we liberals have to talk to ourselves to understand right wing nut stupidity…… because you guys are so lock stepped in stupidity you can’t even formulate an argument. Only dog whistles to the pack is what you have.
Republicans: the party of Stupid.
No he linked to accusations of it.
The guy admitted he did it.
If he admitted it, then what is he denying?
I will concede that Democrats’ being anti-Jew will conflict with my plan to keep the Olympics from coming to America: Forcing the US Olympic Committee to adopt a resolution of non-discrimination against Jews. The IOC will balk and pull the Olympics from any city that dares insist on such a thing. What will the Democratic mayors do?
Example: one team refused to practice next to the Israeli team, and insisted a barrier be erected between them.
Yup, that’s why most American Jews vote for Democrats, because the Democrats are so anti-Jew.
Just like most blacks vote for Democrats, because the Democrats are so anti-black.
And the Republicans reply: That’s because Jews and blacks are stupid and don’t understand what they’re doing.
Seriously, you can’t make this up.
Phydeau says:
3/4/2015 at 1:40 pm
Here’s your Republican party, so touchingly concerned over the plight of Jews in Israel, but not against using anti-Jewish bigotry in political maneuvering… /// Fuzzy. My take: the pro-Israeli faction of the Puke Party has two elements:
1. Neo Cons who support Israel (not jews per se) as a balance against Russia.
2. Religious Fundies who seek end times…actually willing to sacrifice the jews for their Holy Interpretations.
…. and while you almost state it, its not racist as commonly used to play on the racism of ignorant voters. Just politics. On balance, I have no opinion on who is more racists regarding Jews. There are so many small minded petty issues to deal with…… and who doesn’t want a jewish accountant?
Phydeau says:
3/4/2015 at 8:35 pm
No, NFS… just because you want the Jews to wipe out the Palestinians, doesn’t mean I want the Palestinians to wipe out the Jews. I’m in favor of no genocide by anyone. I know, what a sissy! 🙄 /// I’m in favor of that too, but the set up is that one side is going to genocide the other. There is no choice of “no.” so…when that day comes, when Iran has its Nukes, enough to secret one to Israel and have enough left over to stand off the rest of the world,….who’s side are you going to genocide? As the post a few days ago counseled: if you do nothing, if you stick to “no genocide” position, then you are supporting the Nuke on Israel position. Unlike the USA, Russia, China, even Iran==one Nuke destroys Israel. Can we deal with reality rather than what any sane person would want?
And bobbo, I don’t think it’s wishy washy, more practical, to be against genocide and want to find ways for people to resolve their differences. //// Its wishy washy when you post for “the Final Solution,” recognize certain realities of realpolitik, and then want to pretend that the enemies of Israel (PLO and Iran) are not trying constantly to kill every Jew in Israel….and Iran will when they have the strategic ability to do so. What then? Should Israel “wait” and allow Iran to get the Nuke…or take steps (genocide) to stop them?
And plus, Israel would get its ass kicked by the world if it started slaughtering Palestinians. //// Again–show some flexibility of mind===>I’ve said twice now Israel should simply push the PLO out of Gaza and Israel….let the arabs kill arabs. Don’t be so right wing nut stuck on a single point of analysis…especially when it has been changed/modified/improved 3 times now.
Just saying. /// Don’t we all.
Well bobbo, as I said before, if Iran really wanted to nuke Israel, they would have acquired one of the old Soviet nukes floating around and done it already. You are taking the Iranian talk too seriously, I think. Look at all the bluster from North Korea, who DOES have nukes. Hell, look at all the bluster from the old Soviet Union, who had thousands of nukes.
And fine, no genocide, just the Trail of Tears. What makes you think the other countries around Israel will accept the Palestinians the Israelis drive out? Speaking of wishy washy impractical thinking…
Yea, Verily===I dislike the Republican Party and those who support it blindly. The two party system is avoided in our Constitution with the checks and balances supposed to be between the States and the Federal Gubment, between Congress and the Pres===not by and for the Party System representing monied and vote securing interests.
Vote the “person” (sic) or ideas based on history and character of the candidates (and the likelihood they can actcually get elected) and NOT the party which is only a manipulative public relations lie.
EG==in any sane world, the email-gate not yet wrappig Hillary up, should be enough to bounce her as the Dumbo candidate. It probably wont as “behind the scenes” she has the nomination all wrapped up. So sad that Elizabeth Warren is positioned so flat footed and not ready to go. Biden is too old and too status quo. Lots of firebrands to point to, but I can’t think of any obvious Dembo candidates.
Any ideas?
Dumbos who “should be” considered on their merits?
She is very ready to go, but has been bought off or warned off at a private meeting between the two. You don’t think Team Hillary couldn’t get access to Liawatha’s Harvard personnel file?
Liawatha?===not fair or valid….. but still funny.
Interviewed at home, with strict rules on not actually showing the home, she discusses how much she takes seriously her Native American heritage, the pictures she has, etc. The interviewer slips the knife in,”Can you show us some of those pictures?”
EW”Those aren’t for you.”
Phydeau showing a calcification of mind normally seen in righwing nuts says:
3/5/2015 at 10:10 am
Well bobbo, as I said before, if Iran really wanted to nuke Israel, they would have acquired one of the old Soviet nukes floating around and done it already. /// I dunno. Nukes are made out of metal, and I don’t see them floating around. Maybe my physics is off? I GAVE YOU 4 REASONS why Iran might choose not to buy one Nuke and use it. Any simpleton can disagree…. without giving reasons. Please engage the argument.
You are taking the Iranian talk too seriously, I think. //// Exactly so. but, but: How can you take the talk of a Nation State Repeatedly saying they want to wipe you and your people off the face of the earth too seriously?….. I mean seriously! Reminds me of all the Twilight Zone episodes regarding Hitler with the wise old Jew saying: “He can’t kill us, there are too many of us plus we mean him no harm.” THAT KIND OF SERIOUS? Grow up Phydeau. Realpolitik….
Look at all the bluster from North Korea, who DOES have nukes. Hell, look at all the bluster from the old Soviet Union, who had thousands of nukes. /// Yep….not religious nut cases.
See the difference?
And fine, no genocide, just the Trail of Tears. What makes you think the other countries around Israel will accept the Palestinians the Israelis drive out? Speaking of wishy washy impractical thinking…
Your reasons that Iran would not just acquire an old Soviet nuke and use it on Israel:
I find those reasons unconvincing. If Iran was so FANATICALLY determined to nuke Israel, they would have moved heaven and earth to do it AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. But they haven’t. They’ve just blustered, like every other country that wants to be taken seriously.
And before we deposed the democratically elected government and put the Shah of Iran in power, the Iranian people had a long history of civilization and secular peace. And they’re working with us dealing with ISIS/ISIL. So again, I find your argument that Iran is filled with crazy hateful insane anti-Jewish people, unconvincing.
Ok–using your logic—I agree. Iran is not “FANATICALLY determined to nuke Israel” and to do so “AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.” …. SO, its not number one on their list, just no 2-3 or 4? Comfortable now in your denial of absolutes?? Being wiped off the face of the Earth for reason No 4 instead of Fanatical Reason No 1 should give you a lot of comfort…. “you” being the people of Israel about 50% of whom consider the repeated and express statements of Iran as credible and threat worthy. The other 50% being various interations of too stupid to protect one’s gonads.
Iran has not just blustered//// they have worked diligently to produce more ICBM’s than another other country from Europe to China save for Russia WHILE declaring their intent to wipe Israel from the face of the map. They also are building nuke bomb capabilities even in face of harsh but not the most severe sanctions. Why do that without the goal of becoming a Nuke Nation…
And forget about Israel===Iran is the World Leader in spawning and supporting Jihadist revolutionary movements. Iran getting Nukes will start a Nuke Arms race in the Middle East…..not a good thing.
History of secular peace? //// wtf==expressly irrelevant. Like any other dictatorship==what the people want is irrelevant, in this case the religiously devout and extreme Mullahs. Please recgonzie how LUDICROUS this “argument” is. Wash your mouth out with harsh lye soap and wonder what kind of brain fart made you utter this utter nonsense.
Iran is “working with us.” //// Yes–for their own ends. Jebus help me these simpletons get to vote.
“I find your argument that Iran is filled with crazy hateful insane anti-Jewish people, unconvincing.” /// So…you think their leadership is lying huh? How do you determine when to trust a liar, and when not to?
Hmmmmm?
OK, so Iran is going to nuke the Israelis — an act that will result in universal condemnation from the world, kill millions, and cause disease and death in millions more from fallout — when they get around to it???? It’s, like, number 3 or 4 on their list of things to do this year? Build that dam, upgrade the electric service in their second largest city, and, oh yeah, nuke Israel. Really, bobbo? Listen to yourself.
Lots of countries want to join the nuclear club. Why? Well one reason could be: so the US doesn’t f*ck with you. Look at North Korea. They spew their own brand of crazy threatening BS. But the US doesn’t f*ck with them. Why? It’s easy to conclude that it’s because North Korea has nukes.
And sorry dude, Israel started the Nuke arms race in the middle east by getting their own nukes first. The fact that you can’t see this indicates you have a blind spot about as wide as the country of Israel. Any country that conflicts with Israel will of course want their own nukes, because Israel has them!
And news flash for ya bobbo: nations always work together for their own ends. That’s called diplomacy. No nation does things for other nations out of the goodness of their hearts. It’s always about the self interest.
I find it hard to believe that you really think the Iranian mullahs are that suicidal to really want to nuke Israel. But I guess you see the Iranians and Palestinians as subhuman monsters without higher brain functioning. That would explain why you’re so cavalier about killing millions of them. Nice.
Phydeau…. are you serious?
Seriously?????????
Its NOT ME saying Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map=====>ITS THE LEADERSHIP OF IRAN that has said this repeatedly.
Again===> NOT ME. This removes have your argument.
Lets see now, what is left?//// Ok==”most nations work together for their own ends. Yes===>THAT IS WHAT I SAID, in opposition to your naive statement that Iran working with USA against ISIS was some mark of redemption. Its not. You don’t understand the meaning of your own statements. Up your game!
“And sorry dude, Israel started the Nuke arms race in the middle east by getting their own nukes first.” /// Ha, ha…… yes…. and so what???? Israel is not threatening a first strike against any of its neighbors. IRAN IS. Do you see the difference?????
“I find it hard to believe that you really think the Iranian mullahs are that suicidal to really want to nuke Israel.” //// My goodness. Look up what “never again” means. Write back if you cant find it or you think Jews should trust Dictators not to do what they promise to do.
Silly Hooman.
Like I said, bobbo… lots of dictators say lots of blustery things. If Iran really wanted to nuke Israel, they could have long ago.
Israel doesn’t have to threaten anyone. We all know they have nukes and could use them at any time.
OK, you think the mullahs are suicidal enough to truly want to nuke Israel. I don’t. Nothing more to discuss on this issue. We’re just repeating ourselves.
>I find it hard to believe that you really think the Iranian mullahs are that suicidal to really want to nuke Israel.
Well they’ve said it. ‘ An Israeli counterattack would only wipe out part of the Muslim world while Israel would be destroyed.’ And this was from a high level, Rafsanjani(not Ahamdenijad as I said earlier).
The MULLAH part makes a difference. Ahmadenijad even said starting a war would bring about the return of the 12th imam.
>an act that will result in universal condemnation from the world,
No it won’t be universal. Many Muslims would celebrate. And of course many liberals would celebrate as well, say Israel had it coming. Jeremiah Wright would say ‘The chickens are coming home to roost.” On the other hand, Obama will say “Let me be clear. This is unacceptable.”
The Arab League, Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO, Fatah, all have official policy of removing Israel from the Arab World.
I wonder what that means.
>“I find your argument that Iran is filled with crazy hateful insane anti-Jewish people, unconvincing.”
Of course. They seem very reasonable to ginger liberals like yourself.
McCullough! I’m being insulted! If I have to stop saying “wingnut” they have to stop saying “ginger” (whatever that means)
😉
There was that nuke installation in Syria set up by the North Koreans that Israel bombed.
It didn’t end with the Shah, but with the removal of the Shah.
Because the Shah was such a nice guy? Go read some history about the radicalization of Iran.
Phydeau says:
3/5/2015 at 12:12 pm
Like I said, bobbo… lots of dictators say lots of blustery things. If Iran really wanted to nuke Israel, they could have long ago.
Israel doesn’t have to threaten anyone. We all know they have nukes and could use them at any time.
OK, you think the mullahs are suicidal enough to truly want to nuke Israel. I don’t. Nothing more to discuss on this issue. We’re just repeating ourselves. //// No…in the main…YOU repeat yourself while I nothwithstanding your feet in the mud advance the conversation along.
If I knocked on your door and said I wanted to kill you, would you let me in?====>and if you did and I killed you then 70 years later my son came to your son’s door and said “Open Up…I want to kill you” would it be reasonable or unreasonable for your son to believe my son?
See how I moved the conversation? Same position and point of view===>but different argument/analysis. Try it.
Phydeau: what does “Never Again” mean?
Give it up bobbo… I understand that you think Israel has done no wrong and that the enemies of Israel are 100% responsible for the death and destruction in the middle east.
There’s no reasoning with that. I’m done here.
Imagine they stopped attacking Israel. What do you think the video Eideard posted would look like?
To connect all the editors together,
Maybe these Gazan ‘prisoners’ should be put to work making solar cells like SolarCity arranged for prisoners in Oregon. The Gazans will do it for even less, allowing for more profits for Elon.
The problem with God giving you land is when someone else already living there has a different God…
Islam recognizes that Israel belongs to the Jews. To help you out, the proper response for anti-Jew liberals like yourself is to then declare that the Jews in Israel are fake Jews.
So those Palestinians were just fine with being evicted. Thanks for explaining, makes much more sense now.
Largely the Palestinians left on their own, because the Arabs told them to leave while they attacked. The result was Jordan conquered the West Bank and part of Jerusalem. No complaints about occupation, because Jordan is the real Palestinian country. Then they attacked again in 1967, leading to the loss of the West Bank in six days after Egypt tricked King Hussein into thinking that returning victorious Israeli jets were Egyptian jets on their way to bombing Israel, when in reality they had just lost the Sinai Peninsula, another part that Israel gave back to make peace with Egypt. Some colonialists they are.
Then the Arabs attacked again in 1973.
That doesn’t even make sense…
a typical response from pro-Jew assholes.
Phydeau says:
3/5/2015 at 12:38 pm
Give it up bobbo… I understand that you think Israel has done no wrong /// I’ve never said anything close to that. IN FACT JUST THE OPPOSITE as that is what realpolitik is all about.
and that the enemies of Israel are 100% responsible for the death and destruction in the middle east. /// See above.
There’s no reasoning with that. I’m done here. /// You would find reason in what I actually posted, rather than your faulty reformulations.
Meanwhile: you don’t even respond to direct questions put to you that if you paid a bit more attention might change your mind.
Like: What does “Never Again” mean? You know Phydeau==answer the question, consider its important, rather than repeating old arguments. Stop accusing “me” of what only you do. Thats called false equivalence.
I have never said Israel should Nuke Iran===only that if they don’t, Iran would Nuke them, or the risk was certainly one that reasonable people could take seriously.
You know…. more subtle than the wishy washy position you confuse with even handedness.===eg==I do wonder what you think your last quote/post even means?
“Phydeau says:
3/5/2015 at 12:38 pm
Give it up bobbo… I understand that you think Israel has done no wrong /// I’ve never said anything close to that. IN FACT JUST THE OPPOSITE as that is what realpolitik is all about.
and that the enemies of Israel are 100% responsible for the death and destruction in the middle east. /// See above.
There’s no reasoning with that. I’m done here. /// You would find reason in what I actually posted, rather than your faulty reformulations.
Meanwhile: you don’t even respond to direct questions put to you that if you paid a bit more attention might change your mind.
Like: What does “Never Again” mean? You know Phydeau==answer the question, consider its important, rather than repeating old arguments.” /// Since you don’t answer direct questions, I’ll do it for you: this means that RELIGION plays a role in the issue that is NOT PRESENT in consideration of normal geo-political questions. Not North Korea, Not Russians.
I’m starting to doubt you can see the differences.
Politics is not Kumbaya.
My copy paste function fubar’d there.
Last argument was in response to Phydeaus very apt comment: “Phydeau says:
3/5/2015 at 12:43 pm
The problem with God giving you land is when someone else already living there has a different God… /// as it is this reality that makes the threat from Iran more credible than mere bluster.
Sad when brains are used for doorstops.
Phydeau, the Koran says Israel belongs to the Jews.