I think I’ve made an interesting observation about Atheists that are former Christians and like to see what you all think. Christians who turn Atheist seem to think that getting rid of God is the cure for what ails them. That becoming an Atheist means that you have arrived at the Truth, But you haven’t. Atheism is just one very tiny step in the right direction. Christian Atheists still think like Christians and it takes a lot of work to move your thought patterns to a science based mentality. You have to embrace Reality – not just reject God, Just being an Atheist doesn’t get you there. You have to go “all the way in”.
A fundy atheist isn’t much different from a fundy Christian, Muslim, or Jew.
Oh really…………….
Please define what a FA is? Or give an example.
…………..or correct this stupid equivalency….
………..OR….. what are you thinking? EG–that their minds are made up and they won’t accept contrary facts? If so…what are the contrary facts to the existence of gods and fairies and what not that the FA should give more weight to?
……you see the issue?
Sorry bobbo, I was speaking of the fundy mindset, not the actions taken by fundie Christian/Muslim/Jews, who do what God would do if God had all the facts.
It’s about belief, IMHO… FAs believe that there is no god, FC/FM/FJ believe there *is* a god, and they believe in a passionate, maybe even fanatical way.
ok……..thanks………..so how does “having a belief” make them “the same” in a way that carries any meaning at all?
Everybody eats, pisses, and shits………………and believes various things….so we are all the same?????
…………..meaning there a “no” differences?
Again===see the logical error you are making.
Apparently, you think having a belief makes one a fundie? Otherwise you haven’t defined your term.
Whether it is right or wrong, I think more understanding comes from operating on the belief that everything is like anything else in some respects but also different to everything else but itself in other respects. Only the truth and imagination to make a list. Then you have to weight the value of each item on the list and then compare the two lists.
Lots of errors in thinking made by considering only one list or the other. But==both lists start by defining one’s terms.
so…………what is a fundie atheist?
For me it’s the intensity of their belief, I guess, that makes a person a “fundie” of any kind. So what I find similar in them is the not what they believe, but how they believe it. So they’re not all alike, just alike in their passion, best way I can put it.
Very good. Quite a different comment than what you first posted. You are describing what is often called “a hard atheist.” They are in the minority. Mostly because….most atheists truly just don’t think about the issue until its pushed into their faces.
I don’t like most people who are “very passionate” about just about anything. Life has a more lanquid acceptance of diversity. A think to dither about.
I dunno… Can they be called atheists if they haven’t really thought about it? It’s a significant commitment to say “I believe god doesn’t exist.”
My dear, word stew.
Of course they “thought” about it….and once their conclusion is reached…no further need to think about it…unless it is put in your face.
I spend many weeks as a youth trying to trisect an angle using geometry. Once I agreed with the experts that it could not be done, I only think about that math problem every 10 years or so for about 2 minutes…I’m good now until 2025?
Most surveys report most atheist scientist hardly ever think about god or religion==they are caught up in their work. Its the religious who see afronts to their beliefs everywhere they look.
Common sense…… no?
Atheists do not believe in god.
“Atheists believe there is no god” are words shoved into atheists mouths by dishonest theists…
Its called rhetoric.
Jesus didn’t walk on water: he failed to demonstrate swimming.
Yes, our debate/discussions/culture/politics is loaded with rhetoric.
Inheritance Tax/Death Tax/The gubment taxes you twice/…..all mostly the same thing with only the rhetorical shell providing a different impact.
Not enough of us recognize this word play often enough. Always good to be reminded.
Atheism is a *lack* of belief in something not known to exist.
>A fundy atheist isn’t much different from a fundy Christian, Muslim
Ok when was the last time an Atheist kill in the name of god?
Perhaps more Atheists should strive to be atheists, notice the distinction. Can’t one just be a non-theist and be done with it? Also, “Christian Atheist” is my new favorite term.
Cue in Garrison Kiellor: “In Lake Woebegon even the atheists are Lutheran because it’s a Lutheran God they don’t believe in.”
LOL
Changing beliefs does not change the person. Someone compelled to be purpose driven, involved in a community or proselytize will resume those behaviors after they deconvert.
There are also two other factors:
1) The deconverted feel a great sense of loss having wasted so much time trapped in religious belief and want to spare others from that agony.
2) The deconverted are likely to still be surrounded by Christian friends and family. That puts them in a position where they need to develop well formed arguments for their “backslidden” views.
The suggestion that they need to move their thought patterns to a science based mentality is no less condescending and arrogant than the Christians or the deconverts. I prefer to let people be free to believe what makes them happy. Life’s too short to be upset about what others believe. None of those beliefs are the “truth”, anyway.
Atheism is just another religion whose practitioners tend to feel it important to convert others, just like Christianity, Islam, and Global Warmists.
Two out of three ain’t bad, JJ. 😉
In the interests of open debate you can certainly argue the “science” part holds more sway than the political power seekers or the “want it to be true so we can take down the West who have unfairly enriched themselves” factions – but you can’t argue that they want to force their beliefs and practices onto the rest of us.
Actually, “social justice” is another separate religion itself that should be ignored.
+1
Not having a religion is not a religion, dummy.
Revert, not convert. Newborns know nothing of religions until indoctrinated by the ‘enlightened’ ones.
Some make a fairly decent living from it. Notwithstanding what they really believe.
BELIEF in anything is still a BELIEF! With absolutely no proof and only feelings to go on, most have attributed this experience to a leap of faith too. But make no mistake, UNFOUNDED BELIEFS are the foundation of all religions. Call it Christianity, Islam, Goojoo-mooju, or call it REALITY, it’s still a RELIGION!
I’m with you here LL… I consider myself an agnostic, because I don’t have the faith to believe 100% that there is or isn’t a god. I like this definition from google:
I don’t think it can be known whether a God exists or not. I don’t find it necessary, myself. However, I think there are those who won’t behave unless they know there’s an angry desert god ready to smite them at a moment’s notice if they stray from the straight and narrow. The concept of god is useful to them.
Thats the Dawkins definition. Only the scientific method/requirement of being open to contradictory evidence. It sounds “ok” in a vacuum I guess until you sit down and add everything else to the list:
honest politicians, pink unicorns, free lunch.
An atheist in everything but recognition.
So…………….do as I do (or don’t, its your life) and get to being an Anti-Theist which no doubt you are.
Yea, verily!
All well and good Phydeau, except that there are plenty of people who believe in the angry desert God (standard Protestant version) and still rape, rob and murder, blame their sexual escapades on a wide stance, and so forth.
True, the fear of god doesn’t stop everyone. 🙂
That’s why no one expected the Spanish Inquisition.
How very sad.
If you ask “Do you believe I have a frog in my pocket?”, I will say “no, I don’t believe that you do”. It is not the same me saying “I believe you do NOT have a frog in your pocket”.
This distinction is just too difficult for some to comprehend.
Again, why has Dvorak’s blog turned into an Atheist blog?
I love the concept of atheism because it too is a construct of the human mind. Atheists like to believe that God is a construct of the human mind that doesn’t exist. But the God inside the human mind is embedded there & it is a constant struggle to cast Him OUT. Get the fuck OUT.
He won’t leave though.
Tomorrow He will be there too. Until you’re dead. So much for atheism. The human mind makes it impossible.
I still say get the fuck OUT & stay out.
Tollybond: what special hell have you survived? God is not in everyone’s mind. Moi, fer instance. The Black Swan disproves your statement.
………..”other things” are in the human mind that lead to religious mania in its many forms but “god” didn’t even exists as a social construct until about 3000 years ago. Before that, spirit and nature. So—your complaint is a “modern” malady. Don’t be so full of yourself. (ha!)
“Atheists like to believe that God is a construct of the human mind that doesn’t exist.”.
No I don’t. I just don’t believe in any of those fairy tales you try to spread.
“Christian Atheists still think like Christians and it takes a lot of work to move your thought patterns to a science based mentality.” /// Good call.
You also correctly say: “That becoming an Atheist means that you have arrived at the Truth” /// and that is what “thinking like a Christian means–whether you believe in god, or don’t. Thinking there is “a TRUTH” rather than a whole bunch of ambiguity and being comfortable with it. Making the best case rather than an absolute case.
………….Ha, ha…………and thats not to say you are thinking correctly JUST BECAUSE you become ambivalent on any given subject…………NOT WHEN the science is pretty much done on the subject. and not when you apply religious terminology and constructs to the reality of accepting ambivalence.
Parse and apply to your Church of Reality and your doubting AGW.
Its all quite clear: just look.
Perhaps Atheists should attend special classes once a week to know how to be a better Atheist.
I agree… Usually atheists also don’t believe in an afterlife so they should learn to maximize the benefit of their time on earth.
Heh – who brings the coffee and donuts after the service – uh I mean the class?
No one makes fun of people that don’t pray to Thor anymore.
Why stop at science? Push past that and believe in nothing. Works for me.
The problem with atheism is that evolution is an unprovable theory. I’m not saying the bible is inerrant, because it isn’t. I’m not saying there is a single omnipotent entity ruling us all. What I am saying is that we cannot prove evolution – micro yes, macro no. I.e., an agnostic position is smart play IMO.
Atheism is another religion period – a cold heart’ed technocrat religion and when they are in total power we will all lament the lose of Christianity.
http://www.icr.org/article/what-difference-between-macroevolution-microevolut/
BS.
Pretty strong evidence that the previously convinced can spout anything.
The Theory of Evolution cannot be proved….like a math theorem is “proved.” It can only be “validated” by making testable hypothesizes and be consistent with many (ie==MANY) other seemingly unrelated areas of acceptec scientific thought.
Gravity cannot be proven. Only demonstrated….just like MACRO Evolution.
Vaccinated your kiddies?
Ha, ha. Beyond Silly. Hooman.
I read a lot of guff about science yet I hear no scientific hypotheses that fit the evidence. Evidence: lots of people report powerful experiences with god-like presences. See also Julian Jaynes Bicameral Mind book. Is this the god module in the right parietal lobe being short-circuited internally, or is the god module picking up something from somewhere else? Is a brain-hole (a worm-hole in the brain) being opened by some spiritual effort into the next brane where there are only three dimensions, that is, no time dimension, and a compassionate but irascible being occasionally contacts some of us? “Spiritual”? If quantum logic is acceptable, why not other human efforts at understanding reality? Particularly if they generate a modern hypothesis explaining appearances of a diety? Test? How might one test the endogenous versus exogenous source of messages to the god module? Betcha it is possible.
More simple minded BS as Finuka says:
2/5/2015 at 12:10 pm
I read a lot of guff about science yet I hear no scientific hypotheses that fit the evidence. Evidence: lots of people report powerful experiences with god-like presences. /// The most powerful cases are hypothesized to be simple brain chemical reactions.
See also Julian Jaynes Bicameral Mind book. Is this the god module in the right parietal lobe being short-circuited internally, or is the god module picking up something from somewhere else? /// How is this not a scientific hypotesis??????????
Is a brain-hole (a worm-hole in the brain) being opened by some spiritual effort into the next brane where there are only three dimensions, that is, no time dimension, and a compassionate but irascible being occasionally contacts some of us? “Spiritual”? //// Could be. The only way to know is “scientific” and forumulate a hyptothesis and TEST it.
If quantum logic is acceptable, why not other human efforts at understanding reality? /// Well, there you go: quatum logic is “not” acceptable. You apply the applicable logic thereafter.
Particularly if they generate a modern hypothesis explaining appearances of a diety? Test? How might one test the endogenous versus exogenous source of messages to the god module? Betcha it is possible. /// Word scrabble not worthy of a response. To the first phrase, there are no confirmed appearances of any diety unless you mean Jebus on Toast. Those are all projections.
Next……………………
Bobbo! Git boy, git!
Advanced humans from our future would run simulations of past hoomans if for no other reason than they can but more likely reasons would be curiosity or reconstruction of human history.. not all UFOs are space people. Not all with god-like powers are gods but merely more advanced than those deeming them gods. And their simulation would not necessarily be generated by interest in hoomans..but hoomans could be the product of this simulation and would be unaware they were.
Ok. “because it does” is not really a statement of causation but substituting an imagined advanced race for which there is no evidence nor motivation is no different than imaging a god for which there is no evidence or motivation.
…….and suggesting aliens or gods only moves the exact same issue under discussion to a higher level without clarifying anything.
Who made god, how did god come into being then?
Much better: admit we don’t know, be comfortable in the ambiguity if you feel it, pay your taxes and let the gubment fund grant seeking scientists to find out for us.
Easy peasy.
As a Christian, I have absolutely no problem with atheism.
Unless they claim that they have a “science based mentality” and I don’t.
Your religion includes events that violate the known laws of science: virgin birth, rising from the dead, healing the sick, walking on water, turning water into wine. That is not a science based mentality.
Eric Voegelin: “When God is invisible behind the world, the contents of the world will become new gods; when the symbols of transcendent religiosity are banned, new symbols develop from the inner-worldly language of science to take their place.”
I think I am a christian and turned atheist. Though maybe I never actually believed the christian beliefs. I was told as a child that god retailiated and this is why I should be good. If something bad happened it was because god was punishing me. Then over time I realized this was total bullshit.
what do you mean that christians turned atheist still think like a christian? You would have to elaborate. Furthermore, I don’t actually reject god. I just don’t accept it. Is that thinking like a christian?
I believe that is among the such a lot vital info
for me. And i’m happy reading your article. However want to statement on few
normal things, The web site taste is wonderful, the articles is really
nice : D. Excellent task, cheers