$10/hr seems fine for a small town in North Dakota, but she’s in London where I’m thinking she’d need a tad more. What’s reasonable where you live?
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Along time ago, before the 1920’s, some one came up with an economics theory..That Poor people should make Barely enough to pay for their OWN bills, and costs of living.
That they would work harder for MORE.
but, in recent past, things have changed.
another theory, was that a 3% increase per year isnt BAD for the economy..but that includes the WHOLE economy, not just the rich..
In the recent past, the economy has gone up 4 times..and wages, didnt MOVE. and when the wages DID MOVE, they didnt even go up 50% of the wages.
Its funny that Everything goes up 4 times, and wages stay the same. Do economists and politicians THINK you can survive on less?
In 1968 wages, were EQUAL to you getting about $11 per hour. what was nice about that, is that you could SAVE money, you could BUY a home, you could PAY your bills.
It is simply a proper result of a free market. Simplified – on labor market there is huge surplus and that is the main driver of the price for labor. Economy and product prices can go whichever way, there is no linking force to labor market.
What this free market wants to push for? – MORE JOBS. However, Governmental taxes and regulations prevent that. Hence, no more jobs as in Reagan times and… inevitable consequence – pay remains low. End of story.
Remove Governmental load and meddling in economy, jobs will multiply quickly because only the free labor market pressure for more jobs will remain… More jobs, harder to get workers,… higher pay across the board.
Hey Douche–get your head out of Regans ass. There is no such thing as a free market except as a dog whistle to the faithful.
All markets are regulated. The only open issue is how and why or for what purpose.
The best evidence is that supporting the entry wage jobs with a living wage acts as a productivity multiplier resulting in more profits for Big Business.
If you weren’t an idiot, you’d be FOR people being able to feed themselves on one respectable job per earner.
But you aren’t happy unless your foot is on someone less privileged.
Pukes are like that.
THERE IS A CORRELATION..
The corps wanted to cut corners, and have been doing this for 30 years..Cut the number of stores, so that they can Cut the Lease’s on property, the number of Employees, and all the taxes they get.
If they can get the Consumer to Drive abit farther, they CUT the stores.
It used to be that there were Stores within 1-2 miles of every residence. NOW its about 20 miles Area..to cover for 1 LARGE store.
This makes me wonder about all the Convenience marts..and the Corps that OWN them..I will bet they are the same corps that OWN the big stores.
so, they have cut 100 stores out of the area, reduced the employee by 98% to make 1 large store.. And cut the cost of having and maintaining those other stores.
its not the free market driving this. its the Thought of HOW to make more money..and that has nothing to DO with free market.
If it DID have anything to do with FREE market..they would DROP the price by 50-90% for all the money they are saving, and have Every person in 20+ miles running to their STORES..
Hmmmm….ECA…. I think the market advantage of those big commuter based stores IS based on what you say==cutting costs and number and quality of employees, BUT they did put those savings into lowering costs … all in order to continue the process and drive mom and pop stores out of business.
Now what you see every 50 miles is a Shopping Mall of the same Big Box Stores.
The market is regulated to allow this kind of competition with this kind of outcome.
Nothing free about it, except how it plays out AFTER the rules on how to play have been bought and paid for.
anslus und lolipops and ,,, for the rich ye singe.. hehhe
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uq-gYOrU8bA
ehwww.
Right now, the European countries seem to be having stronger recoveries than the USA because they have higher minimum wages that funnels $$$ into the base of the economy.
Its fun to grow up thinking about supply and demand theory and not recognize that you need money in order to make a demand. There is that mysterious multiplier of money’s effect depending on where in the economy you inject it. In the end, with all the jobs overseas, who will WalMart sell to?
So…. its interesting to understand the “free market” is a fiction. Some good ideas, but markets are structured… intentionally or otherwise and what we do affects how it works. Who is advantaged, and who is disadvantaged.
How many jobs should be entry wage, and how many should be living wage? Letting competition set the wage is a fools (libertards) answer as such competition is almost always a Darwinian Race to the bottom. Money is mobile, people are not. Money can act/move at the flick of a button. People have to have a meeting with donuts.
……………there is no competition at all….. so it must be policy determined.
Silly Hoomans. Doing it to ourselves.
Someone pointed to me and said that the RICH pay more in taxes then the poor..
And I had to point out that the POOR buy more goods then ALL the rich..IF they have money..
The 1% rich might buy 1 car..200,000,000 Poor will but at least 10,000 cars..
WHICH will have more impact on the economy?
200,000,000 people Buying and paying bills, will PROBABLY stimulate the economy 1000 times better then 1 rich person..Then ALL the rich persons..
So where do you want the money, in this TYPE of society? AT THE BOTTOM..
Thanks ECA…. good example of exactly how society works as opposed to the DOGMA of the Tax = Theft, Gubment = Slavery crowd.
ECA, just use th word “than”, and then you will be more likely to be using the correct word.
High taxes on the employers & The Rich alike, short working week & subsidies for the workers, and welfare for those who prefer not to get out of bed before lunch.
Working well in France.
Careful what you wish for.
High taxes on the employers & The Rich alike, /// What High Taxes? Total DOGMA whereas the truth is the RICH pay at 1/2-1/3 the marginal rate compared to working class types, and 1/1000th the rate on expendable income. Wipe the shit from your tongue, if not your eyes.
short working week & subsidies for the workers, and welfare for those who prefer not to get out of bed before lunch.
Working well in France. /// Exactly so. Life satisfaction surveys put Europe well ahead of America.
Careful what you wish for. /// Do you live to work, or work to life? Balance. What “should be” the goal of a society? 50 hour work weeks, no vacation, and if you get sick-die quickly?
Recognize what you vote for.
Silly Hooman.
‘living like kings in france’ was a popular phrase amongs wwi soldiers… but somehow I imagine some officer in sick bay acting the catch 22 with private letters and showing off his language skills… hehe
oh b o l i x
no i am laughing at my own jokes to myself
No King of France ever had Beef in a Can.
…………..Napoleon was an Emperor after all.
bully beef said i, as my sister introduced me to a workmate in ‘otel a xmas 1973/74… i was 18yrs she was a looker.. i did not impress the agrentine negro lady…
sorting shifts, me other sister said ‘ woot am i black ‘
that was when i know our catholic irish family had no future
I take it then you are not Black Irish?
Nice babes in Argentina. Black, white, brown and yellow. Not too much red unless working in the sun.
The video that followed this one was even better. “Comcast Doesn’t Give a F@ck”
And as far as living on $10 an hour, try that anywhere in western North Dakota. Even working 16 hr days, you would still have a hard time paying rent. I know of a number of workers who commute 2 hrs each day from Minot, ND to Williston, ND in order to find a small apartment at $1000 a month.
Wow.
There is a theory that says there should be no minimum wage. That people should be offered what the market will stand, $0.03/hr for example for child labor.
I suggest that employers be allowed to use threats of physical harm to extract more productivity from employees, and if the company is losing money, to extract from employees a fee, equal to or greater than their wages, for the privilege of working in a place that has adult supervision, bathroom facilities, lights, and a floor and roof. After all, there is no vice in slavery.
The power to set wages is indeed in the individual. You only get what you have negotiated.
But lacking education, and experience, exploitation is going to rule the roost.
WHAT..
There is a logic to no Min wage…butonly if there is a TOP wage to the TOP wage earners..
Go for it, and see how many workers you get..at Low wages.
I hope you understand basic economics..A lawn mower can get 5 lawns a day, can make better money then YOU working most any job..
Lets get some math in here, for those that DONT GET this..
PAY OUT:
$600-100 per month rent..
$300-400 per month Utilities
$120 Cable TV/NET
$30-50 per month PHONE
$100 per month for Car, Lic., ins, Gas..
Lets say $1100-1500 per month…CHEAP.
FULL TIME 40 hours..
(lets make it easy with ROUND numbers..)
$7.50 per hour..$300 per week..$1200 per month..After tax $900
$10 per hour..$400 per week,..$1600 per month..After tax $1100
$12 per hour…$480 per week…$1920 per month..After tax $1340
$15 per hour..$600 per week..$2400 per month..Tax? $1600
Something you may not understand, is that a is that an Employer PAYS EXTRA over Wages for Full time employee..
A person making $7.50 per hour, is being paid ALMOST $14 per hour, in Matching wages, workmans comp, medical, Social sec., State and medical..and a few other things..
ALL over your wages.
So, do you think a $2-3 increase is going to PAY YOUR BILLS??
The solution to making a living wage is simple:
1) Balance the budget so we are not borrowing money. This gives us freedom to play rough with countries that are not trading fair.
2) End currency manipulation by not paying interest on the treasuries to those countries that offend. (China in particular). This will drive prices up in the US but also drive up employment thereby eliminating the trade imbalance. What is the use for cheap stuff if you have no money?
3) Eliminate the corporate tax rate. 0%. Currently every major corporation has huge holdings offshore. Bring that money onshore. The money brought in to the economy will more than offset the corporate taxes lost.
4) Secure the border. Stop importing cheap labor diluting the pay scale for everyone else.
Then lastly, significantly raise the minimum wage ($18/hr?) and reduce the total hours worked each day to 6 1/2 hours.
3 hours working HARD followed by a 1/2 hour break. Then another 3 hours HARD work then home. Total productivity will increase because more time will be given to relaxing and preparing for the following day.
Corporation will be happy because even with the increased pay the corporate bottom line will be improved because of the 0% tax rate.
More people employed at a higher wage will also mean more spending and more income tax. Government wins.
Of course this will never happen.
The only hole in your logic is inevitable consequence of “Then lastly, significantly raise the minimum wage ($18/hr?) and reduce the total hours worked each day to 6 1/2 hours.”. Free market forces say that the cost of goods will inevitably raise under such conditions. How much? – Same as in Physics, math’ is the same – inevitably somewhat MORE than newly gained purchase power of workers. End result – inflation such that 18$/hr*6.5Hr gives less purchasing power than vs. 7.5$/hr*8hr now… Increase in poverty.
Solution is much simpler (though I like your suggestions): drastically reduce Governmental regulations; drastically reduce taxes. End of story, free market will float everyone up on its own.
Thank you. Nice to have a well thought out reply every once in a while!
As noted by the post, minimum wage should be a local issue. About 3% of jobs are minimum wage and frankly those go to high school students and the very unskilled. For some tasks I suggest just letting the people involved work it out.
I liked her in the musical version of “Reefer Madness”, too.
@ Carlos – Hey Carlos, what’s wrong with being in France?
6 weeks paid vacation
100 Mb high speed internet bundled with 200 channel cable tv and phone service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_France
National Health Care
and the food is pretty good, too!
You, sir, seem to be kind of sugar coating over the *French* part — psuedo-Belgian bastards…
20% youth unemployment, 40% among the Muslim youth. Lots of no-go areas where even the police will no come, because it is dominated by Muslims.
Hey now.. don’t go ruining his dream! It’s great if you HAVE a job, as long as you don’t mind paying high taxes, but even then being employed is becoming a very exclusive club.
If you like that, you’d love Belgium (same self-destruct path as France, just not as advance)
4wks paid holiday (@double pay!)
+ extra 2wks paid holiday if you work 40 hr/wk instead of the mandated 38hrs
+ extra 2wks national holidays (not lost but moved if they fall on a weekend)
+ Christmas bonus (Yay! the 13th month pay packet)
+ Eco cheque (300 USD bonus to spend.. just because)
+ 3 days extra holiday if you get married.
And my favorite – the government sets minimum annual pay rises for private companies.
Got kids? You can elect to work 4 days per week; not forgetting the 6 months paid maternity leave.
Get ill while on holiday? You get full pay(sick pay) and you get to retake those days holiday again.
Fast Internet web tubes as in France.
Great healthcare
Just some downsides (who pays?):
The government dips their beak into you salary leaving you 45% net at best.
With what’s left you can add Purchase tax of 21%, energy/fuel prices +/- 4x of the US, and then of course local municipal taxes, road, car registration fees etc.
From Jan to August you work for the government, thereafter you get to hold onto it for a while until you hand the rest over in consumption taxes.
‘london, there is much spectacle in london’ the middle aged cleaning ladies almost forcing YMCA dorm door,across from retired bishops residence. ‘sticky bench sq.’ because the bums would hang around all day and piss in the bishops garden.
four teens from same st. in another town, crowded that night into a two man dorm. Macker lived on 25 local pr day.. most of the others were not serious.
The lady cleaners had kids our age at home on the sofa and the priests had grand children our age some place. I can’t exactly remember but it was not my first time in town. There was some guarantee min wage out there but i had no job. may have had some credit earned.. workers insurance paid perhaps in another market. think i feel more free then me roomies
I was indignant subletting office took 5% of a months rent. and if the city had subletting labour offices legal… well i would , well i don’t know.. ahh now sub sub letting of work and rents.. ahhh
I hate cleaning ladies to. Always, “yap, yap, yap” and who wants to feel self-conscious whilst trying to have a colon blow but struggling because of the waft of civilized??
Also, when you are young and tell them to “shut the fuck up and don’t touch my shit” they stick the vaccume cleaner hose in yur face, you get allergies, and die.
That is, “the poisonous waft of civilized…”
{Why can’t I have the ability to
read uncle dave posts and shut the fuck up about itedit on this blog so long as it is annotated that i did so??}auld granny next door, smile and say she envy my solitude… sarcastic witch… keep those junkie adoptions out of my garden
Ha, ha. Do you think auld granny is of such mindset or can see/hear/remember that far? You might download Weird Al and play him as loud as you can anytime after 800PM.
Tell Granny you are having a party. She might not believe you, but it could stop her so hurtful observations.
Or….. hang a Halloween Skeleton outside your door with the sign: “He waits for no one.”
I wonder what that little ignorance-exploiting corrupter-of-youth would think about the use of aluminum foil to make most of her now-known exploits obsolete…
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w-0TEJMJOhk
i can’t tell a lie
one day in local supermarket… 15 female east asians were sitting crosslegged around the waiste high frozen food elonggated fridges. maybe some granny was being honoured..
like ring-a-ring a rosy pocket full of pose
they could not see each but conversation seemed fluid
‘up ladies, up… said the shop keeper busle from store
did foil frozen chicken threaten home kitchen
did foil plastic wrap foul
i will never know
My bet is on the a/c being broken at home.
Here in the USA, we have Irish people do the same thing.
okey it nearly mid night
like a dog,, i respond to ‘irish’
like a cat.. i respond to ‘danish
ye grow-up in a place and time
ye live it up in a place and tyme
the irony of me
my two kids work for to pay rent in my auld home town.. they are foreigner
and here i am and i am foreigner
“”and i am foreigner
Well, at least you didn’t sign a contract with BPI… peace.
Its a great success to grow up one place and end your days a foreigner in another place.
It gives you breadth and experience that staying in a rut does not.
I salute you….awake or asleep…. the salute does not care. ((Something I learned while saluting around the world.))
Black unemployment used to be very low, until they passed a minimum wage law. Then it went up and stayed up until inflation ate into the mimimum wage. Unemployment went back down when inflation made the legal minimum wage effectively meaningless. Unemployment stayed low until they raised the minimum wage in the 1950s.
Minimum wage is a way for higher wage people to prevent competition from lower wage people. They price them right out of the market.
Well That’s Awkward!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fjGGS5L8NhU
Price controls (including the establishment of wage floors) are coercive market interventions. State imposed price controls are always imposed to curry favor with one group while harming another group. A minimum wage creates permanent unemployment in the groups of workers whose productivity is not equal to the minimum wage.
All government intervention – all government bodies, in fact- are an unnecessary abomination. Live free by ending the state.
Oh……….you are so wrong. See:
https://google.com/search?q=price+controls&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
Oh, Bobbo knows how to use google!
Ah_Yea says:
7/25/2014 at 2:08 am
The solution to making a living wage is simple:/// understatement/sarcasm is always welcomed
1) Balance the budget so we are not borrowing money. This gives us freedom to play rough with countries that are not trading fair. /// I don’t see how a balanced or unbalanced budget helps or hurts such activities. Mostly unrelated is it not? We borrow $$ to make payment on National Debt. Balancing the Budget is only the easiest part of that. You make no sense.
2) End currency manipulation by not paying interest on the treasuries to those countries that offend. (China in particular). /// Again, you are trying to connect unrelated issues. Won’t the USA economy TANK immediately if not kept afloat by China voluntarily buying our Treasuries only because they pay interest? You make no sense at all.
This will drive prices up in the US but also drive up employment thereby eliminating the trade imbalance. What is the use for cheap stuff if you have no money? //// Multiple connections of unrelated things. Your drivel is not worth the detail, but more likely just the opposite results will occur. China is only one of many countries we have a negative balance of trade with. We are still importing oil for instance.
3) Eliminate the corporate tax rate. 0%. Currently every major corporation has huge holdings offshore. Bring that money onshore. The money brought in to the economy will more than offset the corporate taxes lost. /// This is really stupid. Enough said.
4) Secure the border. Stop importing cheap labor diluting the pay scale for everyone else. /// I agree, but it will not affect any but those at the bottom of the wage scale….. not “everyone else” earning a living.
Then lastly, significantly raise the minimum wage ($18/hr?) and reduce the total hours worked each day to 6 1/2 hours.
3 hours working HARD followed by a 1/2 hour break. Then another 3 hours HARD work then home. //// Pedro?
Total productivity will increase because more time will be given to relaxing and preparing for the following day. /// Productivity of many services ((USA is a service economy after all)) will decline as you can’t answer the phone or sell a widget if you are at home. I like the idea in a general hazy way…but would like to see it modeled as given your track record just in this post, you don’t have any credibility.
Corporation will be happy because even with the increased pay the corporate bottom line will be improved because of the 0% tax rate. /// I can’t tell what issues you are confusing up to arrive at this. 25% of USA largest Corps already don’t pay any tax.
More people employed at a higher wage will also mean more spending and more income tax. Government wins. /// A completely math based solution with no math at all in the analysis? BWHAHAHAHAHAH. So typical.
Of course this will never happen. /// The one thing you got right.
Douche with his knee high Wellingtons on the workers neck as always says:
7/25/2014 at 11:31 am
The only hole in your logic is inevitable consequence of “Then lastly, significantly raise the minimum wage ($18/hr?) and reduce the total hours worked each day to 6 1/2 hours.”. Free market forces say that the cost of goods will inevitably raise under such conditions. //// How so? Name and Connect the Dots. I don’t think the computerized order fulfillment system at NewEgg raises the cost of goods if the Software Development team has a breakthrough with a new idea.
How much? – Same as in Physics, math’ is the same /// Total BS.
– inevitably somewhat MORE than newly gained purchase power of workers. /// All the different variables sum up and come out that way huh?
End result – inflation such that 18$/hr*6.5Hr gives less purchasing power than vs. 7.5$/hr*8hr now… Increase in poverty. /// Typical F*cktard Puke class warfare MANTRA: pay CEO’s less than 75 times the workers and the economy will crash, but pay workers more than a slave wage and they will wind up making even less. How do you resist the natural gag reflex when regurgitating such moronic nonsense?…… Must be the steady diet.
Solution is much simpler (though I like your suggestions): drastically reduce Governmental regulations; drastically reduce taxes. //// Key word: Drastic. As in: whats the worse that could happen?
End of story, free market will float everyone up on its own. /// You’ll be surrounded by what floats.
Ladies and gentlemen, it’s “Bobbo, Uncensored”…..
cripes
Under ObamaCare, the max is 29 hours per week.
Now, if they would enforce the law as written, this would not apply in 36 states that have not set up their own health care exchange.
If we liberals got out way — we’d have single payer.
But you conservagives got your way. And it sucks.
Uncle Dave needs to read the post about the illegals being let into the country. Raise the minimum wage, and your job is more likely to go to an illegal paid cash under the table.
Response to Mary Poppins.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fjGGS5L8NhU
Say SNiF==Free Market?
What does that mean?
Would you bring back Child Labor? If not…. why not? Its pure Free Market.
Tax person: Senator—you are not going to collect an equipment sales tax from us. There are two ways you aren’t going to collect this tax. You aren’t going to collect it if we build our plant in New Mexico. And you aren’t going to collect it if we build here in California.
Chairman of the Committee: But we need the revenue!
Tax person: Let me explain again. . .
The committee chairman (in whose district the new plant would have been built, incidentally) never did get it. The plant was built in New Mexico. California eventually got it, and exempted capital equipment from the sales tax.
The real minimum wage is zero.
Say SNiF==Free Market?
What does that mean?
Would you bring back Child Labor? If not…. why not? Its pure Free Market.
I think people are OK with children not working. They are not OK with blacks not working. Well, liberals are, but most people are not.
Say SNiF==Free Market?
What does that mean?
Would you bring back Child Labor? If not…. why not? Its pure Free Market.
Holy shit, that’s one of the most racist comment I’ve encountered on DU.
I blame the employers for taking advantage and hiring El Salvadorians especially in machine shops for cheap.
Also almost every gardener is a non citizen. My gardener is a genuine “white” “American”. I know I may sound racist by hiring a European American to cut my lawn,
problem is any increase in minimum wage eventually causes inflation and you’ll need to increase the minimum wage again.. it’s a vicious cycle.
Not really. That assumes that the minimum wage employees won’t be replaced by cash payments to illegal immigrants.
Thats rather silly.
Whole point being there has been no increase in minimum wage and inflation continues at its slowly upward pace.
(sarc/on) I suspect that given that “real” wages have decreased over the past 15 years, while CEO pay has doubled, its actually the SUPER RICH becoming the CRIMINAL RICH that has increased inflation all on its own.
Just more Puke Dogma: the RICH need more money, and the poor need less.
Shit for brains.
Low wages are corporate welfare.
Don’t listen to the Libertarian simpletons.
So you are against amnesty then?
Free Market Libtards are SO easy to pwn.
Just ask them: “Say SNiF==Free Market?
What does that mean?
Would you bring back Child Labor? If not…. why not? Its pure Free Market.
/////////////////// Most, but not all of them such as King of the Free Market Libtards: Wrong Paul do have a sense that SOCIETY has an interest in and a role to play in preventing CRIMINAL RICH LABOR ABUSES like they are happy to commit under their notion of FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM to rush to the bottom of the wageslave market. I smile thinking of Neutered Gringrich suggesting our most precious things in the Universe, older zygotes, work as janitors in school to pay for lunch. You know….. “Its good for them.”
BHWAHAHAHAHA. What a group of RETARDS. They all are===unless “true” like me.
EVERYTHING HAS TO BE BALANCED. You go the retarded line when you start baying at one dogma or the other and treat it as THE ANSWER instead of only one factor to be considered among many.
Its called: THINKING. Not shitting on yourself like a libtard does.
Try it.
/////////////////
Say SNiF==Free Market?
What does that mean?
Would you bring back Child Labor? If not…. why not? Its pure Free Market.
Mary Poppins is odd choice, she’s complaining about needing $3/hr more. But she’s a live in Nanny, so room and board should be added as part of her wage, so she should be already making more than $10/hr. Then if you factor in that Mary Poppins is set in 1910, well, the whole premise is ridiculous.
Nanny with her skills would be making $50 an hour.
Can’t she just supplement her income by having the brats market her out her weed? — No. Because she is an overbearing narcissist {hoverer} and any ideas bounced of the bitch is wrong automatically. She is like viscious gangs of keep left signs on the hiway of ideas, thoughts, and innovation. That is, any mindway that she doesn’t own or weasle into control of the tollbooths.
Superkalafragilisticexpialifuckme.
I, Tim, edited this tripe at 1:55 pm to ammend:
That is, any mindway that she doesn’t own or weasel into control of the tollbooths…
**…is most emphatically declared to be “Wrong Turn, I’m going to burn you with a cigarette now whilst swiffer-sweeping up these filthy tears-of-innocence and making these bluelike, plastic birds explode. Go home, Tim; My pussy hurts again…”
Mary Poppins: “People who get their feet wet must learn to take their medicine.”