The Washington Post: Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt. November 1922
Excerpt:
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway.
Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.
Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.
This is an old post from an even older article, perhaps you’ve already seen it. I won’t draw any conclusions, I just thought it might be interesting to revisit. Keep in mind the world population at that time was about one third that of today. You can read the full version here.
Global warming is like salvation, it’s a behavioral reset the masses believe is “unwise” and won’t believe until it is too late!
Science and the masses be damned.
Actually NOAA said the global temp fell .5 degrees C. in the last ten years but who believes them? The Brits MET said no warming for 16 + years but who believes them?
Al Gore says we are all going to drown when the Greenland Ice sheet and Antarctic melt. Of course the Antarctic has just had record ice sheet cover and I seem to recall the Arctic has the most ice in the last 10 yrs. And of course Al bought his sea front mansion. He must be really worried.
Just an additional reference point when you speak of NOAA… In their published papers (that served as a base for the famous Al Gore hockey stick graph of temperature raise) they were at least scientifically honest reporting the level of arbitrary decisions that went into it: “fudge factor” was reported to be 400% in their data. If I attempted to publish any science with 400% “fudge factor” I’d be laughed out loud, except maybe if I did what they did – publish something supporting the Ideology of human caused global warming…
Regardless what deowell or his ilk believe, “the Arctic has the most ice in the last 10 yrs”; along with temperature, insurance premiums are going up!
Regarding the Antarctic, yes recently it has seen recent record ice cover because of global warming.
Did they have super computers and weather satellite back in 1922?
No?
Well then don’t be surprised this article was off the mark.
Unless I missed something, they weren’t predicting anything.
They were reporting on existing conditions.
hum, if you looked at McCullough map, the mythical average person would emphatically say they weren’t reporting current conditions!
Unless you “believe” they honestly thought and reported parts of the rocky mountains where eroded, collapsed and under ocean waters with a HUGE new island land mass off the coast of Oregon!
The map also shows an interesting HUGE new island landmass around the Bermuda triangle!
Yeah, it’s well known; with raising seas, new HUGE island landmasses appear out of the deep depths of the oceans everywhere! Any credible scientist would certainly predict that!!!
Shipping would so easy and cheap in that kind of fantasy world.
Surfs Up Dude!
I assumed they didn’t have maps with such detail and color depth in 1922, so I figured McCullough was goofing around.
Perhaps I expect too much out of other people 🙂
Re: Your Link.
Holy Shit! Those boys wanted to surf.
You get it. Of course the “map” is just a graphic that accompanies the post, much like we always do. Don’t read any more into it.
Yes, so confident that global warming is a scam, “much like we always do” a hoax map is created to accentuate DU beliefs and games!
No such thing as a creditability gap at DU!
pedro what about your “I am a man of my word” bull?
Aren’t you going to again cry out to Uncle Dave about personal attacks.
It hasn’t even been a month!
boo woo for pedro…
No I didn’t feel it identified me, but I did feel sorry for you? Imagine that!
pedro, as always you’re just too easy!
The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!
And, “Coward”, do you wonder if they use the same computers to model global whining as they do to predict next weekend’s weather? If so, we may have a problem.
The only one yelling “The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!” is you!
Well known glaciers have entirely disappeared? Wow
Not entirely, your still here!
This underlines my top point when dealing with global warming alarmists: we are alarmed because temperatures are higher than historical records reachable by inter-generational communication: is it warmer than when father was young, when the grandfather was young, maybe even in some cases great-grand-father… There it stops. We don’t see further and have reflex to demand that climate stands still over such times. By 1920’s Earth was already warming for a century or so. But from what long term levels? – answer that and alarm ceases. And here is the crucial data from readily available Greenland ice cores, published, peer reviewed, with errors in single digit percentages:
http://hot-topic.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/easterbrook_fig5.png
There you can see that before warming started we suffered prolonged extreme colds on 10000 years levels. Also, despite warming and despite the fact that our grand fathers had it colder – we are still in 10% of the coldest years in the last 10000 years. Far even from an average over that time. COLD.
So, yes it is warming. I even could care less to answer why (but for fighting lying Ideology that perverts science). Because humanity according to the graph above PROSPERED most at the hottest intervals. War and decay in cold periods. Napoleon, Hitler, 30 year war, 100 year war, dark ages, fall of Rome… in depths of cold. Prosperity of Minoans, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans (do try wearing toga in modern Rome winter) even Vikings in medieval warming – all at the peaks of warmth. Yes, icebergs are melting. So they should. They are NOT normal. Again those Vikings – Archeological remains of giant farming communities emerge from those “eternal” Greenland glaciers. People lived and farmed there to the degree still not possible after 200 years of current warming. Because starting point for current warming is Little Ice Age. COLD!
So all this is because we instinctively want to make climate flat as Utopia and want it to be as it was for our recent ancestors, even if that climate is far from true long term average.
So, stop the BS. And for what is warming, read real science from CERN, 2011 (oh, but you will need to interpret data by yourself as CERN directors BANNED scientists to interpret what they measured. Only publish numbers, no interpretations allowed. Putting Catholic Church vs. Copernicus and Galileo abuse to the small league of abusers against science).
Hey Douche–I must be getting religion because that chart doesn’t make any sense to me. Got another link that explains it?
1. The chart is for the last 10 K years–it doesn’t show cycles at all.
2. -31.5 Centigrade as our current measurement doesn’t make any sense at all.
3. I was under the impression the concern the scientists have is that having reached .400 ppm for the first time in 300K years, OUR CIVILIZATION in the next 100-200 years is going to have to deal with ocean rise of 3-6 feet, ocean acidification, with unknown cascade events of release of methane gas, termination of the ocean thermocline treadmill at the poles, rapid shift of climate zones, rapid shift of temperate zone, increased greening of plants but with attendant decrease in food production, disease vectors shifting, release of HS2, and a wrath of other difficult conditions.
You post as if the concern were akin to only how hot/cool it might be for vacation planning….. you know???….. like you don’t understand the problem at all!
And yet at least you post a link. Well done hominid.
Silly Hoomans. Can’t understand shit when whatever it is has made their minds up otherwise.
SCIENCE = CHANGE
STUPID = ……….
Cripes. Anthony Watts. The “meteorologist” who was a TV weatherman.
Any notes about how much of a stipend he expects from the Heartland Institute, this year? The “climate skeptics” headed by a Republican lawyer.
Care to read articles on a regular basis – written by for-real actual climatologists, other scientists? Try this one: http://www.realclimate.org
The governments and so-called weather scientists don’t call it “Global Warming” any more because too many of the sheep caught on to their doctored and falsified so-called reports and predictions, so now it is referred to as “Climate Change”.
Well of course the climate changes.
The governments just found a way to tax the sheeple for the weather changing.
Liberty Lover made his first cogent post ….. EVAR! Yes–just one measurement of one limited sector of the Globe.
I do have to wonder what you noobs think the scientific process really is? You seem to demand a perfect theory out of the chute, with no disagreement or errors. In other words: all you can understand is religion and you use that paint brush to color everything.
Silly Hoomans.
Lies, stupidity and BS fully engaged, Sea Level continues to rise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
How come?
Will continue to wait for your first cogent post.
I feel your pain. Waiting for that which you cannot perceive. Whaddabitch.
Cogent Argument with a Supporting Link = The least that bobbo ever offers.
Mindless whining bullshit with no argument, position, insight, or link? = An excuse to deny reality and wait for Pink Unicorns to appear.
Oh……. the Horror!
Sea Level continues to rise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
How come?
Based on your own chart, we can say it’s not because of CO2. The trend from 1870 to 1970s is 6 inches per hundred years. The trend from 1970s to now, which is when the global warming temperature rise started, is 2.5 inches /40 years. No acceleration, and even a deceleration if we look at that last little downturn that has been cleverly hidden by the updated figure on Wikipedia.
So if sea level was rising before large amounts of CO2 and is rising at the same pace now, we can sea that sea level rise due to CO2 is 0.
It’s because of a modulation of the volume of the ocean basins, mostly. Plate tectonics, advection, convection, and all.
The only thing that would melt the iceberg in my heart is Molly Wood, Ms. Micki, Adam Curry, and John C. Dvorak in the new No Agenda Network Podcast “Micki & Molly’s After Hours Tub Fun with Adam & John”.
In the Morning (after hours)…
Dangerous Dan Dithers:
Hey dan—any of your “BLOGSPOTS” been peer reviewed???
AFTER poking holes in the long held, modified over time, peer reviewed, general consensus of qualified scientists computer models and predictions, WHAT ALTERNATIVE SCENARIO do your blogspots propose? IOW:
what will happen to the atmosphere/ocean/our world/hooman civilization if we keep shitting into our atmosphere?
You silly anti-science people demonstrate a pretty egregious case of: MAGICAL THINKING. Strip the globe of heavy vegetation, burn coal and oil for 100’s of years and “nothing will happen as a result because…….. well because we can imagine inconsistencies in the best scientific predictions available.”
I wish you (and you ILK) could be branded with this opinion on your foreheads. Its a shame you should never be allowed to hide or avoid.
Just plain stupid. ((I don’t know if being PAID to mislead is actually worse or not. Ain’t no cure for stupid. Being paid for opinions will stop when the money does.))
Idiot.
The automatic knee-jerk response to any mention of weather or climate or temperature, etc. on this blog is impressive. Someone somewhere is spending beaucoups of bucks with the best PR and advertising brains to spread the denial story, and spreading it thick. The conditioned response is even more rabid and backed up by more pseudo-science claptrap than the anti-evolution industry.
It is time to start learning how to live more like the Amish, I’m afraid (except with fewer kids).
Alfie does crack me up:
TEA Dud says:
6/29/2013 at 4:20 am
No, “if we put your brain on the edge of a razor, it would look like a pea rolling down a four lane highway.” /// That is better. Do you have it tattooed on your nether region?
Sir Issac Newton nailed gravity…no one else did after….he said its from God…
Hence its inexplicable to our scientists…and they’ll never get it right… /// Ha, ha.—you remind me of Bill OReally: “The tide comes in, the tide goes out…. you can’t explain it.” Talk about science retards. ((YOU, OReally, and Climate Change Deniers==not Newton))
Some even think it bleeds into our verse…from a parallel verse….such is their desperation. /// I think thats White Hole Radiation/streaming. Never heard it applied to gravity. All depends on what fevered dream your having?
Keep up the excellent posting Alfie. You can’t be replaced…. nor would you be if we could.
Here’s a whistleblower from 1991 that says that “the Greenhouse Effect” was discoverered in the 1940s. He said then that the effects will be known in “10 to 20 years maximum” with significant melting of the polar ice caps putting the world in “serious global confusion”.
The whistleblower connects this with colonization of Mars.
Look at the 1:55 mark from the video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDIM0sRh5R4
I wonder how much wider the separation between the rising CO2 level and not-rising average global temperature will need to get for some people to recognize that the AGW theory was a mistake and that their lack of broad scientific knowledge has made them gullible.
Pan Dangturd: you do understand a trend line is made up of jigs and jags? How come you only post on the jigs and not the jags…. a jag off so to speak???
Ohhhhhh……. I so do really wish such retardation could be stamped on your forehead for all to see.
“I am a Science Denier!”
Silly Hooman.
>Care to read articles on a regular basis – written by for-real actual climatologists, other scientists? Try this one: realclimate.org
RealClimate went hysterical with a post called Hey Ya!mal that attacked the skeptic Steve McIntyre for criticizing a paper by some scientists in England, work that eventually led to Climategate leaking of e-mails.
Now we see that the scientists have updated their work and now agree with Steve McIntyre, yet somehow RealClimate made no mention of this detail when describing the paper.
http://climateaudit.org/2013/06/28/cru-abandons-yamal-superstick/
…..so NFS… what does this mean to you? With EVERY organized scientific group qualified to opine on AGW agreeing there is GW and most likely its caused by humans I see the trials and tribulations foibles and errors of individuals to be expected. Science is after all done by people.
What is your take?
A liberal differentiating between AGW and GW?!?!?!?! Shocking!
No one has yet established that GW is actually being driven by human activities. The AGW theory is largely based off of correlation, simulations based off of assumptions, and people who are “qualified” on paper opining in the absence of the scientific method and empirical evidence.
Which is why there is such a thing as the scientific method and the gathering of empirical evidence. Inconvenient for science charlatans.
I used to visit RealClimate some … I got tired of the true believers and the *denier* bashing. In particular, one NGO hack http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/about/
I gave up on that blog when they did not bother to correct a critique on Criton’s State of Fear where they totally role-reversed the bad guys from good as to who was performing environmental terrorism. It was a glaring reversal.
Upon pressing *Mike* {greenfyre} about the carbon tax, he would always demand proof of any kind of tax — being a scientist and all.
Could be worse. We could have had scientists talking about Global Cooling about 40 years ago.
Hey Guyver–whats up? Things slow in the foreclosure business?
Never get tired of posting the same defective arguments do you. Always a trap for the unwary. Of no help to advancing your own position though. Very weak. Either you have an emotional block to challenging your own first impression of this subject …. or you are being paid one way or the other to be a shill. Can’t tell which it is as you have shown evidence (sic!) of both.
To your antecedent though…the consensus of qualified scientists never where of that opinion. As the current minimal opposition of todays consensus, the “Earth is Cooling” crowd was very spotting and minimal with the issue taken up by the popular press. With any depth and honesty, your critique actually supports AGW.
It does totally suck to be you. But the ego is a powerful device against reality. I’m sure in a short time (relative to the trends clearly in place) you will change your tune. “What, me Worry?”
Ha, ha. Stoopid Hooman.
You should consider using a mirror instead of a telescope. 🙂
Logical fallacy of appeal to authority.
I’m skeptic. You claim to know something. Your “proof” has consistently been a logical fallacy of appealing to authority. You should consider revising your weak argument.
Otherwise when you don’t have the answers to prove what you claim to “know”, you simply point to others who claim to know something based on their degree / profession (never mind the scientific method gets thrown out the window). This you laughably call “science”.
A fascinating theory on ego, but it seems that if someone doesn’t accept your non-scientific rhetoric that you simply say that such persons must have an ego? Interesting personality trait you have when you fail to be persuasive on what you claim to know. It would seem that you may have a bigger ego than you let on. 😀
Not that its needed, but always good to be reminded, how difficult (multifactorial) climate science is the linked article is about how everything in the Climate Computer Models could be correct except for one element that throws “predictions” all off==such as here, how wet is the climate/weather going to be? And aerosols were not adequately understood/measured/calculated.
Allowing for all sorts of mischief, its NOT just one variable that the Model has wrong. Who know how many elements are wrong or not even accounted for???…… who knows?????
And yet the sea level keeps rising and Magical Thinking does not even propose an alternate reality.
so it goes………..
http://nbcnews.com/science/when-it-rains-rising-carbon-emissions-finally-making-world-wetter-6C10486594
Could be?!?!?!? Yet you speak with such certainty when you defend the assumptions made in climate computer models as though this is empirical evidence in of itself. Never mind that these models are based off of assumptions and have yet to make any near-term predictions.
And yet this doesn’t stop you from making another logical fallacy of a hasty conclusion.
What you’re not going to post the Wikipedia link that disproves your point?
Sea level rising at the same rate as the previous century, maybe slower. CO2 having no effect.
In Bobo’s world, science experts have reached a consensus that correlation is causation.
A scientific-minded person needs no other proof. If you cannot accept that, then you most certainly have an ego about yourself. 🙂
http://tinyurl.com/am8my8w
The Great Green Con
Money graph is this
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/16/article-2294560-18B8846F000005DC-184_634x427.jpg
Such certainty of high warming, and it isn’t happening.
Surely they weren’t exaggerating the threat and extent of global warming to scare the public? Given what we’ve seen, it is more likely that the models and scientists who claim a small amount of warming from CO2 are correct than the Joe Romms who claim major impacts.
Hey boys—after YEARS of me posting the rising sea levels you have come up with a “new” argument: “Sea level rising at the same rate as the previous century, maybe slower. CO2 having no effect.” ////// My, my, my. Well, lets look at the chart once more before we tar and feather you on the faulty logic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
Well, the first chart only goes back to 1870 and at that left edge it appears very flat….but to my untrained eye the chart appears to have one average slope from 1870 to 1930 where there is a break and the average slope increases?
I wonder which on of our eyeballs is not functioning too good?
Maybe you picked up this factoid from the written material? If so please copy and paste. Or maybe you got this talking point from an oil based sleaze sheet? If so, please copy and paste and link?
But for grins, lets say you were correct? That sea level rise is not increasing–its just a steady inexorable rise? That would mean what in your alchemy?
bwhahahaha–I could compose one theory consistent with your statement===but I wonder if you can?
Stun and Amaze us?
Correction: “But for grins, lets say you were correct? That THE RATE OF sea level rise is not increasing–its just a steady inexorable rise? That would mean what in your alchemy?”
AKA–co2 in the atmosphere put there by humans is only going to kills us at a steady rate and not an increasingly faster rate?
How anti-science are you nubs willing to expose yourselves as?
….. and just looking at the graph again–appears to be another rate increase around 1990.
You two are now denying (see the “science denial” part right there?) that co2 is a green house gas.
dopes you are.
Confusing Cause and Effect combined with Straw Man / Red Herring.
Of course CO2 is a green house gas. No one has stated otherwise.
The disagreement is how each of us is coming to conclusions based off of correlation. Water vapor dwarfs all green house gases. In quantifiable numbers, mother nature expels about 30x more CO2 than all of humanity.
During the Roman times, the Earth was much warmer than it is now.
People knew back when the Black Plague was going on that cats were the cause of it before they realized it was because the cats were hunting the rats which carried the fleas who were infected with what was likely the Bubonic Plague.
Is CO2 the cats or the fleas? Your science of popularity claims correlation is causation.
Sounds like you’re establishing a causal relationship specifically on the gas we all exhale or expel due to our refusal to live in caves.
Where’s the scientific empirical evidence that additional human CO2 is CAUSING all of the climate change? Computer simulations based off of assumptions?
Your best “rebuttal” has largely been answers based on one of the following logical fallacies:
Appeal to Authority
Appeal to Popularity
Appeal to Belief / Consequences of Belief
Confusing Cause and Effect
Ignoring Common Cause
Hasty Conclusion
Straw Man / Red Herring
Sounds like the more you’re asked to provide scientific answers, the more logical fallacies you try to defecate. 🙂
Scientists have been saying that global warming from CO2 started being noticeable in the late 70s. So I take 100 years on that chart and see 6 inches of rise, and the forty years since is 2.5 inches. Yes, you can compare different length periods and find rises and falls. I’m merely taking the point that the scientists like Tamino at Open Mind are declaring is the start of manmade global warming, to separate from high temperatures seen in the 1930s.
Rate without CO2=rate with CO2.
Rate with CO2=rate without CO2+effect of CO2.
Calculate effect of CO2.
How very sloppy, BS, and cherry picking you are.
You deny the decades long studies of EVERY ORGANIZED GROUP OF QUALIFIED SCIENTISTS and their peer reviewed work and substitute “what some guy said”?
Silly Hooman.
The scientists were the ones doing the cherry picking. Starting in the late a970s and declaring that’s when global warming’s effect stared, that you have to look at long term trends. Well 1979-1998 is 19 years, pretty close to 1998-2013. You can actually declare no statistically significant warming going back a bit earlier, so you now have two nearly equal time periods. Back when it seemed safe, they were saying things like you need 17 years of no warming to disprove the models(IPCC Chapter Lead Author Ben Santer). Now they are desperately trying to figure out how to walk that back.
Mickey—you really are sounding like a shill. From other posts, you have access to many of the facts about AGW but you post like a High School debate ingenue making basic mistakes…as if valid arguments/analysis don’t exist.
There is an organized self disciplined peer reviewed BODY of information that has been issuing written reports making predictions. Then there is chaff and noise from all sorts of “other” interests. The anonymous “they” that you repeatedly refer to.
YOU have NO CREDIBILITY until you name names, quotes, links. Until such time, you are just a dink.
Appeal to authority / popularity.
There are many in the scientific community who question the claims of your “every organized group of qualified scientists”. Consider it a peer review of sorts. But for whatever reason it’s met with hostility and largely ignored by the mainstream media because it’s not popular.
Six inches to one foot of sea level rise doesn’t frighten me.
Even IPCC worst case estimates are pretty low, no Day After Tomorrow, flooding of skyscrapers, to the point where scientists just dropped the claim because they couldn’t make it scary enough, er couldn’t get a confident degree of certainty. They couldn’t get enough people to sign up for ice sheets melting in Greenland and Antarctica, mainly because it is too cold in Antarctica for global warming to melt the ice.
Jesus you are a dipshit. The rise keeps on going. If “you” are not feard by 6-7 inches, how about feet? Meters? Yards???
You see, until the co2 is removed instead of added to, the effect just keeps on going. Why should you be afraid of “anything” 100-200 years out? Are you likewise not afraid of impacts by comets 1000 years from now????
How manly.
Well if that was the actual possibility, you’d have a point, but the scientists and the facts and your own link to sea level rise chart say otherwise.
Effect of doubling CO2 by itself is about 1C. Not a big deal.
Turns out the IPCC has been declaring not too much sea level rise for some time now.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/07/03/new-study-using-grace-data-shows-global-sea-levels-rising-less-than-7-inches-per-century/
Don’t even need to look. I’ll grant the point. Only 7 inches per century.
A measure of your care for the hooman race.
By the way….. a fail on your part.
Guyver says:
7/3/2013 at 7:53 am
You deny the decades long studies of EVERY ORGANIZED GROUP OF QUALIFIED SCIENTISTS and their peer reviewed work and substitute “what some guy said”?
Appeal to authority / popularity. /////// No Dumbshit its not==except at first blush. The counter THAT YOU USE is appeal to “NO Authority.” Note that the Appeal to Authority analysis does not stop at that claim alone. It continues. It continues on to the validity of that authority. Like Mickey==you make arguments that appeal only to the ignorant. Mine is not an “appeal” to authority but instead is a REFERENCE TO QUALIFIED AUTHORITY. Quite different.
There are many/// in fact, no, there are not many. Again, this is your appeal to No Authority in about the weakest formulation of it there is. HAW= HAW!!! You don’t limit your own analysis to defects you find, you merely use whatever dumbass comment works at the half sentence level. What a dope!
in the scientific community who question the claims of your “every organized group of qualified scientists”. Consider it a peer review of sorts. /// No. Its not peer review. Consider your thinking a turd in your pants of sorts.
But for whatever reason it’s met with hostility and largely ignored by the mainstream media because it’s not popular. /// I only wish that were true. Your BS claims are met with much too much respect as if it were a qualified opposing view==which on the order of Pink Unicorns… it is not.
Not very valid when they lie to the public.
The other hide the decline e-mail:
Yeah, it wasn’t so much 1998 and all that that I was concerned about, used
to dealing with that, but the possibility that we might be going through a
longer – 10 year – period of relatively stable temperatures beyond what you
might expect from La Nina etc.
Speculation, but if I see this as a possibility then others might also.
Anyway, I’ll maybe cut the last few points off the filtered curve before I
give the talk again as that’s trending down as a result of the end effects
and the recent cold-ish years.
Mick Kelly
> been issuing written reports making predictions.
And the predictions aren’t panning out, which suggests a reevaluation is in order.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/16/article-2294560-18B8846F000005DC-184_634x427.jpg