I was in a restaurant the other day and heard a couple talking. “Maybe I should go back to using DOS.”, he said. “They can’t tap DOS.” It’s now something we have to think about, talk over with our friends, wonder if they are listening to us. Is the NSA monitoring this blog? At what point do they get really interested. With that in mind I’m going to make some statements and see if you agree.
- A watched person is not a free person. – We take our liberty for granted. There was a time when we didn’t even think about if the government was watching. Now we have to wonder what they see and what they care about. Just knowing that makes me feel not free.
- Secret Courts means rule of law is dead – America was founded as a nation that was created by the will of the people for the sole purpose of serving the people. When they can just tell you to do anything they want just because they can, that’s not freedom. America was founded on the principle of rule of law based on the Constitution. The FISA court has nullified the Constitution.
- Debt is a form of Slavery – In 2008 America was scammed out of trillions of dollars by thousands of bankers. The Obama administration has prosecuted none of them. When bankers steal and the government allows it then they are an accomplice in the theft. And who’s debt is it now? They tell us we the people owe it. $50,000 per person. They have created artificial debt and are trying to make us indentured servants. And the terms of the debt is that we have to surrender our freedom.
- Two classes of people – the watchers and the watched – The spy society has created two classes of people, the watchers and the watched. The watchers are effectively our masters and we are effectively the servant class. “They” get to see what we are doing and their secret courts control enforcement. But – there’s nothing to worry about. Just be a Patriot and believe everything they tell you, even when they tell you they are lying to you.
- Forcing people to lie is a dictatorship – I host this web site for John Dvorak. I have access to his email. I can tell you that I know for a fact that I’m not sending the NSA John’s email. However, if I were given a national security letter and ordered to tap John’s email, I would be required to lie to you and say the same thing. I am required by law to lie and it’s a felony if I tell the truth. Therefore when I tell John Dvorak that I’m not tapping his email, my word means nothing. When someone’s word can not be trusted they are a liar, even if I never lie. America requires me to be a liar. I am not free.
I think slavery is something that is taught. I think that they are trying to reprogram society. They want us to willingly give up our freedom. They want to impose debt on us telling us we have to give up our freedoms.One of the proudest moments of my life was last Saturday when liberal Democrat party loyalists booed Nancy Pelosi sending her a message that we’re not going along for the sake of the party. Pelosi can go back to Washington and tell Obama that the peasants aren’t buying the story.
I think the time has come for Occupy Wall Street to join hands with the Tea Party and tell the Cheney/Obama administration that the insanity will have to stop. Let us decide as a nation that we choose freedom and the rule of law and a constitutional government. No spying, no secret courts, no secret laws. Rich people go to jail too. No watchers and the watched. We need to say no and make no stick.
“At what point do they get really interested.
It’s possible the computer parsing this blog might bump up the conversation to the next computer to take a ‘look’.
When it gets to the 83rd level, it’ll trigger a customer service interrupt to a call center in India to see what’s up.
See – we have to talk about it. Wonder about it.
I communicate my secret margarita and pulled pork recipes embedded in JPEG images. It’s a pain in the ass to locate the watermarked pixels but it works
I do get a chuckle every time I think of the NSA’s new job description as carefully documenting all the little time-evolved hairs on a kitten’s cunt.
This is only going to get worse.
Data storage is going to increase exponentially. Computing power, the same. The data available on us will also increase as well.
Now is the time to put some parameters on what the government is allowed to do.
But don’t bet on it. We can’t get congress to pass anything… let alone the kind of nuisance, fowrard-thinking laws we need about privacy in the digital world. I guess that’s what happens when you elect governmental leaders who don’t believe the government can every do anything right.
Part of the problem in getting them to pass any sort of “nuisance, forward-thinking laws we need about privacy in the digital world” is that our legislators are 30 years out touch with anything that’s happening in the digital world. I’d almost have no legislation than the inevitably bad legislation that would come out of the attempt, just look at Obamacare.
Agreed on all points.
That’s why I like to make all of my email red flag on their systems. I use PGP to either encrypt or clear sign, always since 1995 and at the bottom since 2005, entirely unencrypted I like to list 20 or so keywords that are on the current list to be flagged for extra review. If they’re going to suck it all in, by god I’m going to do my best to pile on it. Now, if only we could get the masses to do the same, the entire system would shit itself.
Now if only Snowden had a donation pool setup. Cash, blankets, water, CASH! And guns, ammo, explosives and people that know how to use them. <<–See, gumming up the hoover hose. đ
Yep – and they know you use PGP and now you’re on the PGP users list.
Of course. All encrypted email is automatically kept forever by the NSA. I advocate everyone encrypt everything. Shopping lists for dinner, consistency of the baby’s poop in the diaper, encrypt it so it must be saved and an American is directly “targeted”. Just flood their servers and storage centers with BS.
It is becoming apparent that the US Constitution needs another amendment. It has become clear that many of our elected, or appointed Federal politicians who are sworn to uphold the Constitution have little or no regard for there oath or fear of consequences for willfully and knowingly disregarding the obligation that this oath imposes on them. Perhaps what is needed to minimize the threat that such dishonorable politicians represent to the welfare of this Republic, the property of We the People, is a 28th amendment to our Constitution. Where-in the purpose of this amendment shall be by fear of the consequences of being found guilty of knowingly violating there oath of office, a sworn politician shall be subject to the punishment prescribed by two thirds of the various states in special convention to consider the accusations made against the politicians by at least one third of the states having indicted them for knowing violation of there official oath. The consequences would be limited to no more than 5 years in prison or what ever lesser punishment the convention regards as consistent with the harm their dishonor would cause the Republic. The judgment of the convention would only be appealable to a subsequent convention. No Federal sworn politician would be immune
We already have the 5th and 4th and 1st amendments to protect civil liberties.
There are at least two class-actions lawsuits in play against the corporations and the NSA.
Yale Law School is a party in one suit.
Laura Donohue, a law professor at the Georgetown University Law Center and its Center on National Security and the Law, has called PRISM and other NSA mass surveillance programs unconstitutional.
There are good arguments that support the theory that dragnet surveillance suppresses free speech and violates the United States Code — 18 U.S.C. §§2702 (disclosure of communications records) and the program operates outside its legal authority (s.215 of the Patriot Act). The class includes the plaintiffs and other American citizens who, in addition to being members of the Nationwide Class, had their telephone calls and/or emails and/or any other communications made or received through Facebook, Google, Yahoo, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Sprint, AT&T, Apple, Microsoft and/or PalTalk actually recorded and/or listened into by or on behalf of Defendants.
I think focusing on the technical issues and problems with “How” the guv is doing illegal activities is beside the point…the obvious “Elephant in the room” is this: There is a GRAVE-SYSTEMIC FLAW in our Country’s government. As any technically knowledgeable person knows, a process or program cannot possibly correct itself BY itself. e.g. We CANNOT Vote our way out of this nightmare…Sometimes , the only solution to a systmeic problem is to break the system, stopm and go back to the drawing board, building upon what you have learned.And the GSF I brought up previously? That being “The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants ever 20 yrs or so…” not my words, try POTUS Thomas Jefferson.
It was clear to him way back then, that was ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED to maintain any semblance of the American Dream of Freedom..The only thing that got us out of VietNam were the peasents storming DC and all the major cities , DEMANDING, an end to that…until that type of severity and passion returns, it sure as triple HELL ain’t going to get better…
+1
Th only way to rid yourself of a tyrannical ruler is if their heads roll, literally.
“We CANNOT Vote our way out of this nightmare⊔
This isn’t known until the electorate stops hiring D/Rs.
I disagree with all your points and was getting dismayed at your characterization of debt as slavery. That is the CONFLATION of disparate issues making for very sloppy thinking, if any thinking at all.
But I agree with No 5. Free people do not lie. Perhaps, they are not even required to remain silent but definitely NOT lie.
With those banksters all running the same scams they have learned are so profitable with no downside at all, there are many characteristics of our USA Society that are odious in and of themselves or on a steep slope to the tyranny that calling ones self a slave supports.
Troubling.
But what if that debt was imposed on you by the ruling class. They spent billions of dollars on padding their bank accounts and living in luxury, and then said that you have to pay for that, you are held to account for it.
It was not debt that you personally incurred and it was not money spent on improving the living conditions and infrastructure for those who were taxed.
1. A watched person is not a free person. /// Disagree. You are free, but subject to the consequences of what you do. Don’t confuse freedom with anonymity.
2. Secret Courts means rule of law is dead. /// Well, by careful design, the court is under the supervision of the Executive Office AND Congress AND the Sup Ct.==What it is secret from is THE MEDIA and we the people. Perhaps the distinction is too close? It is troubling and does set the stage for all kinds of horribles. To me, this emphasizes the limitation of “Rule of Law” AS IN–and what if the Law is Wrong?
3. Debt is a form of Slavery /// Yes, there is some similarity… but this is more worthy of a bumper sticker than anything else outside an ivory tower on a rainy day.
4. Two classes of people â the watchers and the watched /// No–Good Sci Fi (ne Syfy) shows that the watchers are always watched too. How can they not be? Watched all the way up. Even God offers no privacy.
5. Forcing people to lie is a dictatorship. /// I disagree with the equivalency. It is as you said early the Rule of Law in our Democracy…. but I get your point… you don’t like it. And I agree. Being required to lie by your government is tyranny and a lack of freedom.
I think slavery is something that is taught. /// No, slavery, by definition, is IMPOSED.
I think that they are trying to reprogram society. They want us to willingly give up our freedom. /// Yes, a close point: happy submission to the conditions IMPOSED.
They want to impose debt on us telling us we have to give up our freedoms.One of the proudest moments of my life was last Saturday when liberal Democrat party loyalists booed Nancy Pelosi sending her a message that weâre not going along for the sake of the party. Pelosi can go back to Washington and tell Obama that the peasants arenât buying the story. ///// I agree.
I think the time has come for Occupy Wall Street to join hands with the Tea Party and tell the Cheney/Obama administration that the insanity will have to stop. /// You have to get the Silent Majority involved.
Let us decide as a nation that we choose freedom and the rule of law and a constitutional government. No spying, no secret courts, no secret laws. Rich people go to jail too. No watchers and the watched. We need to say no and make no stick. /// I basically agree with the interpretations offered.
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I’ll say it another way: Governments engaged in secrecy become stupid in every other way. One commenter said that in order to maintain the support of the American Public, a bit of secrecy will have to be given up even if it makes the program not as effective. Where that line finally gets drawn will depend on how many of the concerns you list are fully appreciated… by your light, my light, the full spectrum?
If you fully agree with Marc then you also cannot say “How could the government let this happen?” the next time someone hurts hundreds or thousands of people in the name of terrorism. Public safety is not accomplished without law enforcement and investigation tools. There is no free lunch.
I would agree with you on praising the Democrats if it weren’t for Democratic run cities that put up spy cameras everywhere. They are the ones taking away guns. An armed man is a citizen, a disarmed one is a subject.
Agree with every statement you made but still see M.Perkel and alike guilty of the fact that right now all those violations are in effect. Who did you vote for last two times? (Don’t need to answer me , if you are bothered by the path country took – what was your part in it is for you ta answer yourself). Who would you vote next time? Can you see inevitable link and consequences of things you want (ex. universal Government controlled healthcare) and many of your own enslavement points?
Only the Government which specifically lacks power and is Constitutionally limited can’t do those infringements both from the point of wanting to infringe them and having ability to infringe them. But, such Government also CAN’T “provide” or “invest” or social engineer by the regulation or financial pressure. Because in order not to be able to violate your points it must be weak, poor and without influence on society. You can’t have person in White House be able to promise “war on carbon” – he/she must be limited to service to the people by law and capabilities. Even if you like “war on carbon”. Because Government empowered to declare “war on carbon” and impose healthcare on all,… can (and by social forces inevitably will) impose all other kinds of enslavement. The only way out is to vote people in who want to diminish, shrink, dis-empower and limit the size and scope of the Government. Once you vote for such people – do complain. Voting in Tyrant and than complaining is nonsense.
IDIOT ROLL:
1. Perkel: no response. Happy with his own first expression without further reflection or engagement.
2. Mike from Illinois says:
6/26/2013 at 6:41 am
If you fully agree /// weasel word making for a weak argument
with Marc then you also cannot say âHow could the government let this happen?â /// gubments don’t “let” terrorism happen. There are many live actors in this world each with their own agenda. STOP making the gubment the savior or the boogieman dependent on your own interests.
Public safety is not accomplished without law enforcement and investigation tools. There is no free lunch. /// Correct, the issue is one of balance which you TOTALLY MISS.
3. Mikey–retarded as always. Connect the dots here: you have a gun/howitzer/tank==how is your personal info protected?
4. Dee–everything in Washington is partisan. Issues that initially have “bi” partisan support are usually against the interest of the general public===>just like this one. The hair on the back of your neck should rise up whenever you find an issue “non-partisan.” What are you missing? Recall if you don’t know who the sucker is at the poker table—its YOU!
5. Douche Anal–retarded as always. Trying and failing to turn this bi/non partisan issue ((IE–one against the general public)) INTO a partisan issue so that D&R’s will fight among themselves while the policies continue or worsen. Way to go Douche!
6. TEAD–retarded as usual, but at least not euphoric and maniacal. Another lets cut our own throat analysis trying to make this a partisan issue. Another Douche.
Nothing changes.
Ho hum…. more of that “change you can believe in”. How’s that Obama guy looking NOW?
Well Marc, I say you have this administration and the previous one pegged. Unfortunately a love of dictatorship has corrupted both parties. Each generation is becoming more finely tuned to be servants of the state. The blue states are leading the way.
My handle says it all…
I like it. Too heavy on the handle, missed the shite….. look for the kernels.
Nuggets of truth no doubt.
lol…
More of a slurry.
We all have an inner bobbo, thankfully the body excretes Pedro.
explosion, volatile, detonation, blast, blowup, bomb
Now they do
whistleblower
Now they do intensely
NSA sucks
Now they do forever
They also register:
– all phone conversations
– all e-mails
For you lucked out Americans they only read/study/register some of your
– actual phone conversations
– e-mail content
– social network activity
– skype and similar
– web site visits
– content on PCs and the like using backdoors
Now, for us lucky privileged western Europeans they do the same, just much much more intensively.
Our own governments do as well. Other governments also.
Would it not be easier to put it all in the cloud for all to access?
Me, I am considering to use stone tablets only from now onwards. If I meet any no such agents, I have something to throw.
someone should setup a email and/or voip service that every month they state on the bill they did not receive a national security letter, if they get one they leave it off the bill. this way they didn’t lie, and they didn’t tell you.
Even the watchers are being watched.
Some good and true points made.. I think the hard call is “How do we remove despots from power who wish to remain in power”? History tells us that it is usually a very bloody process.
I’d prefer jurisprudence, but when the political/legal resources we have available to us our so corrupt as to be beyond belief, that leaves us with brute force…If these corrupt evil overloads where held to account, not just them but there familys, bankers, everyone associated with them that profited by there crimes are all put on trial, with prison be prefered as opposed to execution, then maybe, people who seek such power might start to think twice about raping the American people… I can dream , I guess.
The NSA does nothing to make you a slave or unfree. That is the IRS’s job!
You just don’t get it, do you?
I get this much. The NSA is part of the military and is answerable to the Pentagon. The Pentagon is answerable to the Commander in Chief. That means the one man that can change NSA operations is the President of the United States.
All you have to do is elect a President that wants less information than available to his predecessors.
All of this NSA flap is to take attention away from what the NRO is doing. (A joke. I don’t know that the NRO is up to anything.)
At least the National Applications Office has been eliminated.
Blaming Bush (or anyone former regime), really? Is a watched person a free person?
Marc Perkel,
I agree with most everything you say. However, I don’t think slavery is something that is taught, rather it’s something that is accepted. Obviously, slavery is accepted by those who are being oppressed since they have no choice – that’s a no brainer. But just like the “sit down shut up” crowd is over spying, slavery is (or at least was) expected to be accepted too. It’s called CULTURE.
Right now, I highly dislike this culture of snobbery and bafoons who willingly give up their rights and then criticize anyone else who don’t agree with them. Just look at the subscribers to Google products, Facebook and Twitter and to a slightly lesser degree those who don’t even question Apple or Microsoft if you want a hint as to who these bafoons and snobs are.
I can quote you line after line what many of our American founding fathers said and other sage-like sayings. Stuff like “freedom isn’t free” and “what we created is a republic, if you can keep it” and so on. But it doesn’t mean a damn when the very CULTURE tells us to sit down and shut up — and more often than not to also take a NUMBER! (That’s what our masters in the non-government private sector have been training us to accept practically since the industrial revolution!)
…And I’ll be damned if anyone else forces me to lie too. If that means I must follow a reprehensible character like Edward Snowden to Russia (which curiously is more “free” than we are) and expose the liars for the scum that they are then I too will do it.
I think I speak for all monkeys when I say: “hoo, hoo….ooh, ooh, aah, aah, whoo, whoo!” My lawyer will fill you in later (with his usual aplomb) on the details concerning the inherent meaning of my opening statement in due-time, or as the court sees fit to discover otherwise. BTW, typing on an Android soft-phone is no substitute for the real thing… “as-it-were.” HARUMPH!
I think I speak for all monkeys when I say: “hoo, hoo….ooh, ooh, aah, aah, whoo, whoo!” My lawyer will fill you in later (with his usual aplomb) on the details concerning the inherent meaning of my opening statement in due-time, or as the court sees fit to discover otherwise. BTW, typing on an Android soft-phone is no substitute for the real thing… “as-it-were.” HARRUMPH!
It seems all our “Modern Connected Devices” are doing MORE WORK FOR THE NSA/CIA/FBI than they are doing for their owners !!!
http://cironline.org/reports/license-plate-readers-let-police-collect-millions-records-drivers-4883
The executive branch of government, Barack Obama, has commented that society must strike a balance between privacy and security, or something to that effect.
The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The language of the amendment does not suggest or infer a balance between privacy and security.
I am curious to know how the judicial branch will interpret the 4th Amendment as the PRISM program is challenged in the courts.
I spent many years of my âprevious lifeâ feeling sorry for myself. Ended up not liking who I was and pretty much exhausting my friends with my complaining. Now I subscribe to the belief that if there is something i can do to change a situation – I do it. If I canât change it, I s*ck it up and deal with it. I tell myself that âthis too shall passâ and as long as Iâm doing what I can, I try not to worry. Of course, this doesnât always work and I have spent many days and nights obsessing and fearing the worst that could happen. So far, âthe worstâ has never involved death, loss of family ties or bankruptcy. I am blessed to have a wonderful man (boyfirend sounds sooo high school) who lets me rant, rave and vent, then makes me laugh. Without him, Iâd be a lunatic.
Ranting, raving, and venting while being so courteous as not to say SUCK does not make you a lunatic so much as just plain lame.
suck. Suck. sucking. suck suck suckety suck. suck the sucking suckers. Fuck those horn’d beasts of suck.
Sorry, Gregg — perhaps it’s only quantum physics made your post appear here all off-topic and shit. Or maybe just fat fingers? Freerepublic is on the other side of the internet, if you’re lost.
Cracks me up. I can guess at what the FreeRepublic is. Ha, ha.
Quite the harsh critic on fat fingers. Yet I sense you have used that razor on your own innards as well.
Just as it should be.
You are not forced to lie. You are not allowed to tell a suspect he is under surveillance. Where does it say that when asked, you must lie?
Also, YOU are not forced to lie. The law applies to companies.
Dan Carlin was urging the Occupiers to join up with the Tea Party almost three years ago. So depressing to listen to some of the stuff from the election know how it all turned out. Instead of taking a chance and changing the heart of their party they took the easy route, and it cost them the election. The really sad part is that Obama is pretty much what most of that party wants in a President.
BOYCOTT NSA
BOYCOTT USA PRODUCTS
ALL PRODUCTS NOT JUST TECH
WAKE UP WORLD THIS PROBLEM IS HUGE
US GOVERNMENT AND ITS “ALLIES” ROBBED YOU
THINK HOW MUCH MONEY YOU WOULD HAVE NOW
It is very simple to fix this whole problem, and that problem seems to always be the USA. Everyone in the world and even the USA needs to boycott the USA. They also need to know where there data is going and ensure servers that do not touch USA. This is very simple to do but does have a cost.
The alternative, do nothing. If you do nothing, you may ask what is the USA doing with your data. They are using it to make money plain and simple. It is not for terrorism or any other grand adventure. It is to take the worlds money, just like playing poker, and knowing your opponents hand. If a company is ignorant enough to not secure their business without the USA and NSA spying, then using them is a sure fire way of destroying your business by espionage and stealing. Think how many trillions have already been stolen.
Microsoft has back doors to all its products. This includes getting rid of all microsoft products like windows and replacing it with Linux. People around the world should start writing for open source code to help linux work for the world. All companies should provide tech support and drivers for Linux.
Cisco routers have back doors to all their products and allow the USA companies in the know to learn secrets to your business.
This does not mean simply just use new encryption software. These companies built back doors and even your best encryption is not safe. Worse anyone can access your networks once the back-doors are released to the hackers.
Once trust is lost it is lost forever, and these corrupt American companies do not deserve another penny. They got funding from the USA government to take your information, and what should piss you off is they have it all right now. You have to change the game of your world business today.
Educate the next generation and your business partners. No companies in the USA on your servers period. Boycott Microsoft, Skype, XBOX, Verizon, Google, Cisco, Apple, Facebook, Yahoo, AOL, Level3, Paltalk and there are 50 companies total so far look them up.
Follow the work of the BRICS nations (Brazil,Russia,India,China,South Africa) and Europe and start to build a wall around the USA. Even Australia, you need to switch sides and abandon the USA for good. For every dollar you refuse the greater the world becomes and the more money you keep in your pocket. This includes, donât forget, boycotting the rest of all businesses in the USA. Make the USA hurt until it turns against itself and stops screwing with the world.
Sincerely,
Pissed On So Many Levels