Several people are saying, “Why do I care if the government is spying on me? I have nothing to hide!” You might be shocked to hear that this isn’t about just you. Here’s 10 reasons why the Prism program is a really really bad idea.
- It’s illegal – The Patriot Act creates a secret court called FISA that makes decisions that can’t be reviewed in any other court under the cover of national security. The FISA court has issued the biggest subpoena in the history of the world to gather and store information about anything and everything that occurs on the Internet. FISA has nullified the Constitution which is the core document that defines America and establishes the rule of law. America exists in name only.
- Freedom of the Press is Gone – You find out there’s a secret torture camp the government set up like Abu Graib and you want to anonymously contact a reporter about it? Not any more. The reporter’s phones are tapped. They know who called, when they called, and where they called from. They know everywhere you go from the GPS in your cell phone and where the reporters go. If you are thinking of blowing whistles – the know who you are and where to find you. Thanks to Verizon the NSA is a member of your friends and family plan.
- It pisses off the world – Even if we make ourselves believe the lie the rest of the world isn’t buying it. If we can spy on them then they can spy on us. On what basis does America get to spy on the world and not anyone else? Like Gitmo, it causes us to appear like a lawless Bananna Republic.
- It disrespects other countries – By saying, “We’re not spying on Americans, we’re just spying on foreigners.”, we are telling the world that this 5% of the population are “real people” and that the other 95% of the population are subhuman. If we disrespect them – they are not going to respect us.
- It makes us a dishonest nation – They admit they have been lying to us and they say that they have to lie to us for our own protection. And we’re supposed to “believe” that? We have become a nation where dishonesty is required and honesty is punished.
- Chilling Effect – Knowing that the government is tracking your calls and reading your email does that change what you do, who you call, what you say? When I write to this blog I know that the NSA is reading it and that it is going into their record about me. Now they know you read this too and it’s on your electronic profile. Your girl friend sends you a sexy picture and there’s some NSA government worker masturbating in his cubicle over it.
- It makes us less safe – As if terrorists didn’t need another reason to hate us, we just became a global threat to all of civilization. Even if we stopped a few terrorist plots we are inspiring a lot more terrorists by doing this than we are preventing.
- Opportunity for Data Theft – Why should I try to break into Bank of America to steal usernames, passwords, and credit card numbers when I can break into the NSA computers and get the data from all banks all in one place? Edward Snowden exposed exposed the spying, but if he were greedy he could have used his access to steal all this information and sell it to the Chinese government or the Russian Mafia. Can you imagine the impact it would have if everyone’s credit card numbers we stolen? Do you really believe that they can keep that kind of data secure?
- Hitler’s dream – Imagine if Hitler had this kind of technology back in World War II. Do you think there would be any Jews hiding in your attic that the government didn’t know about? They wouldn’t even need to send the SS to kick down your door. The NSA would just send an autonomous drone out to kill you.
- They already have a Gun Owner’s Database – You think they don’t know who has a gun with this level of spying? They know everything you buy. Bought your gun for cash but you bought bullets at WalMart with your debit card? Have you gone to a gun club, gun show, or stooting range with yur cell phone on? Do you send email sharing your views on gun rights with people who have hotmail, yahoo, or gmail accounts? Did you join the NRA online using a credit card? They know who you are and where to find you thanks to that cell phone in your pocket.
On the good side however they just gave science fiction writers a new paradigm to explore. Haven’t seen this covered in Sci Fi since The Forbin Project more than 30 years ago.
I’m sure there are many more reason why Prism is a bad idea but wanted to throw out 10 just to get the ball rolling.
Being in the “I don’t Care” camp, I find your list “persuasive.” Good to collect them all together.
Let me quibble: As there is a law directly on point, I don’t think it is accurate to say it is “illegal.” I think it IS legal until challenged and found to be in violation of the Constitution??
Like everything else the gubment does, I more worry the data collection is just “sound and fury” with very little ever coming of it as those with actual evil intent should be able to easily avoid Prism.
Throw away phones just to start with?
Regardless of outcome/developments I do assume we all phone and email “as if” the whole world was watching?
Hmmmmmm…… adding it all up myself==>given the bad guys can/should be able to avoid Prism, seems to me the benefits are mostly illusory and too subject to the errors of human folly.
I say stop it.
Yeah – just wrote this piece a few days ago.
http://gilroy.patch.com/groups/marc-perkels-blog/p/why-do-i-care-abut-government-spying-i-have-nothing-to-hide
Good advocacy letter–not as “balanced” as your OP here.
If this law ever gets challenged before the Supremes, I can see them upholding it as there are “procedures” in place to provide a minimum due process.
All the case law I can think of regards the CONTENT of communications. This law as written goes to “meta data”–more like the Fact of a phone call being made, a billing record, rather than the thoughts/ideas of the content. Big philosophical and factual distinction there and nicely one that cannot be slopped over into==ie, collection of the business records cannot possibly provide content information. That would take a different collection process.
Similar issues of privacy vs anonymity arise in the Public Camera cases. Too many think this is an invasion of “protected constitutional privacy” as well BUT THERE IS NO REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY when you are out in public. I can see this applying to the public fact of making a phone call as well.
Similar cost/benefit analysis occurred over 911 attack and our HOMELAND SECURITY response to it. We had 3000 lives lost and a Billion in property loss from 911. Our response was 100K killed, 300K wounded and 1.5 Trillion spent along with airport and other civil liberty intrusions.
Regardless of the legality of our response–I would say it wasn’t worth it, and I’ll bet right now this NRA response isn’t worth the info it will create either.
Living in uncertain times…… takes a mature evaluation and response. Something USA has never been good at.
Yea, verily.
If it went to the Supreme Court the government would argue that they can’t hear it because of national security reasons. I’ve been in federal courts where they made that argument and won on it when EFF was suing AT&T over their spying.
I find that hard to believe. No doubt “something” close to what you described happened. No doubt, the Feds made that argument but the Courts reasoning must have been garbled or poorly/incorrectly transmitted??
Or maybe—LOWER courts are excluded from such preliminary issues, but the SUPREME COUT is named such for a reason.
Lots of facts to be clear about.
You mean like this?
“The state secrets privilege is an evidentiary rule created by United States legal precedent. Application of the privilege results in exclusion of evidence from a legal case based solely on affidavits submitted by the government stating that court proceedings might disclose sensitive information which might endanger national security”
http://tinyurl.com/el7p6
Exactly like that Mextli–good catch.
…. and I guess thats how such a Constitutional Challenge would start.
… or with an extradition or treason charge against Snowden.
As by description Prism is catching everyone’s data, I would think “everyone” would be entitled to sue for invasion.
It always comes up====how is this intrusion on our rights defended against by guns? Eh wot??? I note this forum almost never posts anything done by the good folks at the ACLU–the last and best bastion of safeguarding our liberties GIVEN that the Free Press is a corporate endeavor.
How soon did the boys at Microsoft see Prism coming when they presented their first vapor ware?
…….and we just keep stumbling along….
bobbo said,
“BUT THERE IS NO REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY when you are out in public. I can see this applying to the public fact of making a phone call as well.”
A phone conversation is or was considered private. It’s not a public fact, it’s called wire tapping plain and simple. I have nothing to hide but I’ll be damned if this type of data mining and storing continues. We need to figure a way to stop this Orwellian nightmare.
Are all phones recorded or is there a list the PRISM can’t touch? Presidential phone lines, internal CIA, ect.? Curious, I’ll bet there are ways to circumvent the system.
jp–there is the FACT that you made a phone call, like a billing record, which is what the NSA is stockpiling. Nobody thinks that is illegal, but too many even after its pointed out continue to CONFLATE public FACT of a phone call with the privacy right of maintaining confidential the CONTENT of the phone call.
Tapping I think means “listening in” on the conversation. Not relevant here.
Keep the issues separate.
The terrorists won by your conclusions. OBL warned us of the future. So, which team was OBL on?
I don’t know about the science fiction writers but Brad Thor wrote a thriller in 2012 titled “The List” on the subject of government contractors and mass surveillance.
ISBN 978-1-4391-9302-0
I think a lovely little page-turner would be a story about a NORAD drone going bonkers and targeting the cooling clusters on all the data centers {because they look like balls and Operation Rouge Ball Sack (ORBS) was still stuck in an embedded chip that suffered the year 2038 problem}.
Gosh, I wonder how much power those places use? Must be at least this much:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LjJESro1HiY
The Broken Window (2008, Jeffery Deaver)
In the book, a killer has access to the world’s greatest data miner called Strategic Systems Datacorp. He is using detailed information to commit crimes and blame them on innocents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Broken_Window
Can I get a back up of my hard drive if it crashes?
Bet you could argue that it is some kind of entitlement.
I could put that in 10 reason why government spying is a good idea.
lol
What I don’t like/need/want is the secrecy surrounding all the surveillance. Secrecy, the feeling that I know shit and I can keep it from you, is what causes all of the problem.*
If its applied even-handedly and across the board, everybody’s life becomes an open book, (which very few of us is likely to open because we too busy living our own life.)
I imagine that living life in such an open manner would be frightening at first. It might take a generation for it to be accepted but the benefits would out weigh the costs.
Nobody would be able to get away with anything of consequence (involving any money!)
I want to know that all of the information on anybody is instantly accessible by everybody, for free. (In essence Google-able.)
*) Ted Kaczynski had a measure of power over us all because he could stay hidden and select his next victim at his leisure, but even he had to mail his bombs, and that requires a traceable transaction of money. (A world where accountancy is ubiquitous doesn’t need accountants. đ )
Excellent twist on the whole controversy.
Not to overlook the simple fact that all that is being collected by “this” program is who what when where phone calls are made. NOT THEIR CONTENT.
Hardly anything anyone is going to change their life style over.
CONTENT IS KEY. and we all assume our emails are poured over for key word evaluation… right? Wasn’t this reported on 4-5 years ago… “Python” or something like that. Ha, ha–don’t get snake bit.
But again your idea is excellent. Pros and Cons to all we do: a totally (mostly?) open society… or one that keeps secrets? How much energy is spent when a government keeps secrets from itself vs having the citizens all behind it because it is “open?”
Pros and Cons…. and …. no matter what you do, 15% of people will be against it for doing or not doing it at all, while another 15% will be against it for not going far enough…… while 70% like myself just don’t care.
“Nobody would be able to get away with anything of consequence (involving any money!)”
So, we the citizens lose the “right” to be dishonest (practicing selective obedience to be law).
Creating and knowing the loopholes in the law will be our only relief.
Prepare to straighten up and fly right (or get a good lawyer)!
Forget about “get a good lawyer.”
The lawyer isn’t getting away with shit either.
Everybody‘s books are wide open.
This “spying” will never stop. Now that silicon valley is suckling at the government.teat (you don’t think Microsoft et.al are doing this for free do you?) turning off billions in secret money to the major players here isn’t gonna happen.
Cashing in on the military industrial complex has become the American way.
Suckle, suckle is only solved with click click, historically speaking of course. There are other ways to non-violently extinguish corruption and tyranny, it is my hope the lambs wake up before the slaughter.
Funny…it took a Libertarian to wake you people up. Except for bobbo the insufferable and repetitive clown-shill, of course.
I was unaware Eisenhower was a Libertarian …
“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. “
Uh, yeah. That party died a long time ago.
Throw some dirt on it already.
If this is your reasonable intelligent response, please excuse yourself from the table, kiddie time is over.
Whining won’t help.
Don’t make me play the (N)ixon, card..
Or the (B)ush card…
Or the (M)cCain card…
What else you got?
Now, go get your binkie.
Question: What’s the first letter of the Pirate alphabet?
Answer: Aaaarrrrr!!!!
He was prescient.
I told them we need more funding for the search algorithms. It just doesn’t work very well unless the text contains the word “kitten” therewith; And, telephonically, it’s pretty broken unless the perpetrators say “picric acid”.
That subversive totally escaped us {for now — he WILL be ressurected and his sins read to him for eternity in shifts}
HAH!!! That sounds like boilerplate to me.
If I weren’t already In Repose, such a taunt would put me to sleep.
Same as it always was.
I want to say that secret services all around Europe are using this system as well. The Telegraaf wrote today that the AIVD in the Netherlands can get any info from an american email address in less than 5 minutes, so I’m pretty sure there is no oversight with it (the even mentioned that no request has ever been denied). UK has their own program and Germany is also working directly with the US (see Merkel&Obama discuss spying).
Also, what do they mean with American email addresses lol? I’m pretty sure they do not mean email addresses from American people, but just email accounts from any of the huge international companies providing mail that have some headquarters in the US. So they spy on everybody here in Europe too(ok not really a surprise), it is just convenient for the NWO to have their main spying databases in the US.
Why is everyone forgetting this:
Government and military officials are now blackmail-able.
The government doesn’t care that *you* are cheating on your wife, but Boeing would love a list of Senators cheating on their spouses.
This data becomes more actionable as the security clearance of the target increases.
Naturally. Of course, Lindsey Graham is so compromized and black-mailed. Lot’s of dirt on that sweaty meth-head with the kid-dick breath. It makes him an asshole by secret edict.
I totally agree. The real issue is the power this grants over legislators. They don’t care if I buy bullets, but they care if Michelle Obama has a boyfriend.
I can guarantee that there is a known workaround for the people in the know. There data can’t be tracked and mined. Secrets can still be born.
Ahh, There sb Their, one day I’ll be an English professor, HA.
There are more programs
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/main-core-a-list-of-millions-of-americans-that-will-be-subject-to-detention-during-a-national-crisis
Biting fingernails and leg shaking!
Not a really good list. Mainly this limits freedom of speach. Since you will no longer want to voice negative comments about “the man” which is otherwise harmless, but said in confidence to someone but then the message is exposed and then the person is labeled a traitor.
Also, someone can be falsely accused of a crime based on false flags found in this database of text messages, e-mails and phone calls. Or how false information could be injected into this database to frame people.
Well. I wouldn’t want to comment on *the man* without including Chico in the context. Other than that, we got a real half-brother watching us now and Michelle-O gets hers off by secretly visiting Justin Beiber because Obama got a little tiny dick {a genetic abheration due to his half-hatian status} and can’t satisfy her.
Har! And, as an aside, you’re dead. âș
It’s a nice list. But I ask myself, what would Hitler say to this list? He would say, what, you don’t like my program? I’ve got something else for you. Bend over.
They already turned PRISM on the Occupy Wall Street by classifying it as a terrorist movement, then spying on OWS leaders. They sure Pepper Sprayed the sh1+ out of that peaceful, Free Speech movement.
Next up for being classified as Terrorist? How about the Raging Grannies for Peace — the MIC hates them. Bush was already spying on them. Or maybe classify Green Peace as Eco-Terrorist — the Oil Cos will love it.
Very slippery slope. Fascist and Orwellian.
I find it fun…
When WE, try to get info on WHAT our gov is doing, and has done…Its EDITED try a FOIA..
If our GOV would SPY on our GOV…I wouldnt mind.
I believe that our Gov. is supposed to be OPEN and FREE, not PAID and PRIVATE..
Is this government taxing citizens without representation?
Hey, where is Pedro? Waiting for Dallas. Ok Ok I should keep my mouth shut.
Let us parse:
1. Itâs illegal â The Patriot Act creates a secret court called FISA that makes decisions that canât be reviewed in any other court under the cover of national security. /// It is under the control of Congress by Funding and by the Supremes by Judicial Review.
The FISA court has issued the biggest subpoena in the history of the world to gather and store information about anything and everything that occurs on the Internet. FISA has nullified the Constitution which is the core document that defines America and establishes the rule of law. America exists in name only. /// No. Many constitutional issues remain dormant and unaddressed/uncorected until a case finally makes it to the Supremes. Life is not a Video Game with instant gratification.
2. Freedom of the Press is Gone â You find out thereâs a secret torture camp the government set up like Abu Graib and you want to anonymously contact a reporter about it? Not any more. The reporterâs phones are tapped. /// Not tapped. Only the billing record is warehoused. Use a pay phone, throw away phone, someone elses phone (eg any business office) and the caller is unknown. Meet in a Parking Garage and don’t use the phone at all.
They know who called, when they called, and where they called from. /// No. They only know what phone made the call. Easy to avoid once you know.
They know everywhere you go from the GPS in your cell phone and where the reporters go. If you are thinking of blowing whistles â the know who you are and where to find you. /// Only if you use/carry that phone. Think of it, as I do, as an external implanted brain chip. Again–easy to avoid once you know.
3. It pisses off the world â Even if we make ourselves believe the lie the rest of the world isnât buying it. If we can spy on them then they can spy on us. //// Hello?==they already are. American Naivete to think the rest of the World is any different than we are.
On what basis does America get to spy on the world and not anyone else? Like Gitmo, it causes us to appear like a lawless Bananna Republic. /// Everyone spies. Everyone snoops. Only one NOT doing so are those Bananna Republics. Don’t conflate/confuse your memes.
4. It disrespects other countries â By saying, âWeâre not spying on Americans, weâre just spying on foreigners.â, we are telling the world that this 5% of the population are âreal peopleâ and that the other 95% of the population are subhuman. If we disrespect them â they are not going to respect us. /// Huh? The NSA “news” is that we are spying on ourselves. That was the point I thought. If you don’t want to be spied on–buy your own servers. I only wish American got the (dis)respect we so richly deserve in so many ways. “What will Yemen think of us?” Ha, ha.
5. It makes us a dishonest nation â They admit they have been lying to us and they say that they have to lie to us for our own protection. And weâre supposed to âbelieveâ that? We have become a nation where dishonesty is required and honesty is punished. /// A very telling point I think going to the HEART of what a DEMOCRACY is all about: “an informed and supportive public.” YES–being honest and transparent has its pros and cons. Any oligarchy loves secrecy. It provides an illusion of power. Weigh and balance. I would err on the side of openness and transparency. Something Obama has failed to deliver on.
6. Chilling Effect â Knowing that the government is tracking your calls and reading your email does that change what you do, who you call, what you say? When I write to this blog I know that the NSA is reading it and that it is going into their record about me. Now they know you read this too and itâs on your electronic profile. Your girl friend sends you a sexy picture and thereâs some NSA government worker masturbating in his cubicle over it. /// I agree. Love popsicles though. Hypocrisy among the masturbators is no more attractive than it is among the Overlords. Requiring the peeples to be more honest/thoughtful/reflective…. like everything else….. has its pros and cons.
7. It makes us less safe â As if terrorists didnât need another reason to hate us, we just became a global threat to all of civilization. Even if we stopped a few terrorist plots we are inspiring a lot more terrorists by doing this than we are preventing. // I don’t think so. This issue comes down the road from the 15-20 issues that turn a Moron to Terrorism. Who this does turn is rather obvious?===>the idealistic high school drop outs that get Top Secret Clearances in the Data Storage sites in our cost plus contracted security agencies. Ha, ha. Let’s all read and only half understand Animal Farm, then be lied to. What do you think is going to happen?
8. Opportunity for Data Theft â Why should I try to break into Bank of America to steal usernames, passwords, and credit card numbers when I can break into the NSA computers and get the data from all banks all in one place? Edward Snowden exposed exposed the spying, but if he were greedy he could have used his access to steal all this information and sell it to the Chinese government or the Russian Mafia. Can you imagine the impact it would have if everyoneâs credit card numbers we stolen? Do you really believe that they can keep that kind of data secure? /// No but this risk is fully in place. Having all the data in one place is functionally the same as having it in 5 places? I am amazed that worms and viruses haven’t brought the entire commerce part of the internets down already. I keep reading that Billions are stolen and its covered up all the time. Yet, inflation is low? Big Finance–as much a mystery as electricity, computer code, back doors, and the whole host of what makes our world rotate. Kinda does make one wish god was in charge. Instead, its us.
9. Hitlerâs dream â Imagine if Hitler had this kind of technology back in World War II. Do you think there would be any Jews hiding in your attic that the government didnât know about? /// No Jews using cell phones, thats for sure.
They wouldnât even need to send the SS to kick down your door. /// The SS would still launch the Drone.
The NSA would just send an autonomous drone out to kill you. /// Autonomous Drones? I’m against that.
10. They already have a Gun Ownerâs Database â You think they donât know who has a gun with this level of spying? /// Data collection is a discrete process. Yes–I think collecting phone records does not build a record of gun ownership. Every gun should be equiped with a cell phone….. NOW we are talking some good Data Base Fapping.
They know everything you buy. Bought your gun for cash but you bought bullets at WalMart with your debit card? Have you gone to a gun club, gun show, or stooting range with yur cell phone on? Do you send email sharing your views on gun rights with people who have hotmail, yahoo, or gmail accounts? Did you join the NRA online using a credit card? They know who you are and where to find you thanks to that cell phone in your pocket. /// …. and what’s wrong with this? Effective pre-Crime is in our future. Justice is just an algorithm.
Parsing Complete. Yeah–I don’t like government secrecy.
Let the Sunshine IN. Snowden and Manly to be given Medals of Citizenship, a modest pension, and the support of the American People. MAKE our government be open and transparent. They won’t do it on their own.
Great article. Spot on.
So…… why does a Dog lick its own Balls?………………
…………………………………………………………….
………………………………………….. because it can.
Same reason men pee in sinks, and Gubments spy on people.
Get Real.
Does this sound anything like the (real) Spanish Inquisition?!
“Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition.” – Monty Python đ
I completely agree with this list.
Some jerk of a former FBI official, interviewed on Charlie Rose, didn’t see much difference between Google or Amazon knowing your personal info, and the government knowing it. And even some of the others interviewed, didn’t fully elaborate on the difference. The real difference is, if Google or Amazon f*cks up your life, you can take them to court and sue their ass. But you can’t do that to the government. It has immunity to prosecution. If (or when) they f*ck up your life, it’s just too bad. You’ll be lucky if “they” even feel the obligation to straighten things out. More likely they’ll just wipe their hands of it, and leave the shattered lives to mend themselves. And there’s No Red Cross for those kinds of victims.
The real problem in the US, is that this country’s citizens have become so damn stupid, that it seems it doesn’t even care about this issue. Just as long as it can still watch American Idol, and keep up with the Kardassians. Then fine, spy on every aspect of our life. What a load of lame headed zombies. They don’t even deserve to be called Americans, anymore. Since they hardly oppose a damn thing, these days. I suppose it mostly apathy and ignorance. People turned into technology consuming cows. Who only worry about getting a good data plan, on their smart phone. But not that the NSA, has access to all that data.
But I wonder if too much immigration, from other countries where they live with this kind of police state mentality, is why we’ve come to accept it here in the US? Well the American citizens are going to have to give up their “Dancing with the Stars”, and start networking in ways the NSA-CIA-FBI can’t infiltrate, neutralize and oppose. To turn this country back around to it basic Constitutional freedoms, once more. And accept that the price for all this, might just be the possibility of a pipe bomb, or car bomb, taking a life of someone they know, some day. But that’s no reason to toss every freedom away for the supposed protection, that having none of those freedom, gives us. Something that has yet to even be proved it can do.
It’s Kardashians!!!! I love them, so jack off!
Condi were a banker in Sri Lanker
& a financier in Myanmeer
Plants be chlorophyllicularly cellular
whilst mammalians be glandularly sexular
Canines be olfactorously receptive
& plants photosynthously sensitive
Condi likes morning hikes
in Prospect Heights
& silly talk in Montawk
Attractive section of content. I just stumbled upon
your web site and in accession capital to assert that I get actually enjoyed account
your blog posts. Any way I will be subscribing to your feeds and even I achievement
you access consistently fast.