Should the federal government help Oklahoma after this weeks tornadoes? Normally I would say absolutely yes. However, both of Oklahoma’s Senators, Jim Inhofe and Tom Coburn have repeatedly voted against funding FEMA and voted against relief for other areas of the country. The both voted no for Hurricane Sandy relief. So now comes Oklahoma with their hat in their hand wanting money from the government after they said no when the rest of the country needed help. Shame on you! Shame on you!
So – should we help them? Yes – we are America and we take care of each other in times of disaster. Certainly the little children aren’t responsible for how the senators vote. And I say we should help even though I know that if we have a big earthquake that Oklahoma is going to vote no to help us.
But if I were a senator I would tell Coburn and Inhofe that I’m not going to support disaster relief till the begged for forgiveness on the floor of the Senate. And I would make them pledge to never vote against disaster relief again. There just has to be a price to pay for that level of hypocrisy.
I just wonder what requires federal funds and what does not as far a disaster is concerned. One at this scale maybe, or probably should qualify. However, would a smaller tornado qualify? What about a flash flood that wipes out 10 homes as opposed to 40? There should be clear rules that outline what does and does not qualify for federal disaster relief funds, and does not. States should reasonably be prepared for certain things. This should not be a political event every time.
Isn’t the definition of insanity doing the same over and over expecting different results? The idea of rebuilding time and time again sounds like insanity to me. I vote no assistance unless you relocate.
Understandable if you’re talking about a river, gulf, ocean coast or fault line. Tornadoes show up wherever the hell they want to here in the middle of the country. Swing and a miss.
Everyone in Tornado Alley has to move. :p
Move where?
Every part of America has some form of natural disaster.
Snow, rain, floods, earthquakes, hail, hurricanes, tornados, wild fires, sink holes, heat, cold…
With climate change no place on Earth is safe. Time to fire up that Stargate to paradise..
Use common sense. My home experiences hurricanes and a occasional nor’easter. The snow has to be shoveled and with a big blow power interruptions and fallen trees are our concerns. Our houses are not leveled as is during severe tornados.
I read the mayor of Moore now wants to pass regulation for new buildings to have either a storm shelter or a safe room in the house. What a joke. The homes will still be leveled, a shelter will save lives but the house will still blow away.
Insanity I tell ya insanity.
On principal, they should get the finger and be forced to eat their words. However, people in need shouldn’t be punished for their actions.
I ran across a diagram on a news site showing the path of the tornado along with other major tornados to hit the same area in the last decade. Seems like nature has a fairly consistent pattern. Should homeowners be allowed to rebuild in the same area in the future? And should taxpayers be responsible to pay for future damage if and when this happens again?
In the case of low lying land that has been flooded countless times in the past you are most likely correct. It should be nature reserves, parks, and such unless the home owner is willing to take a risk or buy from a private insurer.
A twister is a little harder to figure. Sure they are more likely to track through at some locations than others but I don’t know of any location that that is twister free. If you want to require a twister proof space in new construction it’s fine with me.
Summing up in a completely pompous way, something we all should do in private:
1. kevink–so reasonable that yes, I would think such “guidelines” do exist -or- it is also totally reasonable to rely on the discretion and good judgement of Congress to make the hard calls. Your own review shows the difficulty–flash flood for 10 or for 40 homes? Whats the right number?
2. jp==what are you suggesting? No homes in Oklahoma? That might be the humane thing to do, just considering their educational system as oppossed to sitting in hurricane alley, but given the obvious impracticality of such broad brush reactions, wouldn’t a requirement of a building code updated to meet the growing severity of CLIMATE CHANGE be a better way to go? One report, maybe true, is that winds reached 200mph. Enough to take bark off trees. Review the charts: all those red areas: homes to be build to withstand 240 mph winds? Mostly underground?…. and teach that dinosaurs and humans did not co-exists? All good responses.
3. Super–yes, on principle. Or only those who didn’t vote for these clownfaces get relief? All a matter of how finely the principle is applied?
4. Super==its a function of building codes and insurance. Combine the two, and let the free market manage this exposure.
5. Pedro==always idiotic aggressive. At least this time it was funny.
TV just said this was the worst Tornado Storm in History. Nothing to do with the theory of AGW though that says storms will get bigger and stronger as you know the models aren’t accurate to predict where the tornadoes will touch down. Ergo, its clear that there is no proof of Global Warming.
Exactly, no homes in tornado alley. No standing structure is affordable. Build the cities underground if you have to populate tornado alley. The alley is well defined. What happed to the population that fled the Katrina hurricane? If I remember correctly the storm ravaged folks were bussed and scattered all across the US.
You do know the size of “tornado alley” don’t you?
http://tinyurl.com/klweu56
Then let’s compromise and convince the people in the most ravaged area to relocate. That appears to be in Oklahoma between Tulsa and Oklahoma city.
“That appears to be in Oklahoma between Tulsa and Oklahoma city.”
This year it was Oklahoma, two years ago it was Joplin Missouri, next year it could be Indiana or Nebraska or Ohio or Iowa or Illinois or Arkansas getting the picture yet?.
Still the majority of serious tornadoes touch down in the sector I mentioned. Check some historical maps of where the concentration of deadly storms occur.
Of the twenty five deadliest tornadoes only two were in Oklahoma, you might want to check your facts.
http://tinyurl.com/63fbf3
Statistically if you are anywhere in “tornado alley” you have a greater chance of not being hit than being hit.
Here is a map I base facts upon.
http://www.tornadochaser.net/images/frequency.gif
http://tornadochaser.net/images/frequency.gif
Try this one
http://tinyurl.com/7nnjga8
You want people to move because of a possible (statistically unlikely) threat when the per capita cost of tornado damage, in both monetary and life cost, in the high frequency areas is lower per tornado than other states. The tornadoes in those area are less likely to cause damage to populated areas as the population density is lower. Of the ten most costly US tornadoes only two have occurred in Oklahoma.
http://tinyurl.com/ngnab3a
One tornado does not a catastrophe make.
From wikipedia, The city of Moore was damaged by significant tornadoes on October 4, 1998; May 3, 1999; May 8, 2003
; May 10, 2010
; and May 20, 2013. Moore is located inTornado Alley
, a colloquial term for the area of the United States where tornadoes are most frequent. About twenty tornadoes occurred in the immediate vicinity of Moore from 1890 to 2013.
Ha, ha. As a man, I feel my gut hunches and life experiences make me pretty reasonable and insightful. But repeatedly, the science of psychology tells me that my species is piss poor at risk assessment. Should I base my political analysis on my ego and sense of self worth…. or should I deny what my heart tells me and go with Science? But Tell me Mr Jones–even with Science, I don’t know what to do!
“Although Oklahoma sits smack in the middle of tornado alley, historical records show that any given patch of land will only be struck by a tornado of EF-2 or greater about once every thousand years.”
http://newscientist.com/article/dn23575-timing-made-oklahoma-tornado-toll-worse.html?cmpid=RSS|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|online-news
Sure seems to me tornadoes hit the same place all the time. What to believe?
I own a home in a hurricane prone area. No subsidized insurance from the gov’t. Windstorm insurance cost $500.00 per month for 200K coverage and a huge deductible.
Its the price you pay.
500/month? Why….. thats unaffordable! So much so—I don’t believe it. Per year???
Anyway, you can’t get/keep a loan without insurance so if everything is “covered” what is the need for Fed Disaster Relief except everyone wants help when its offered? I thought the Fed Program was mostly low cost loans and temporary relocation assistance. I thought it was designed almost as a State/Fed level kind of INSURANCE to spread the costs of the various disasters in the USA that do occur. That seems appropriate. Not so much–the programs that rebuild homes in areas that are known to be in active threat zones like flooding and yet no stringent building codes are imposed or the requirement for homeowner paid insurance policies that actually cover the known risk? ie==the homeowner pays only part of the insurance and the Feds guarantee the unpaid for risk as part of some relief act?
No doubt full of fraud and favorites—but what really goes on?
Any body know the specifics.
Believe it. $500.00 mth, $5000.00 deductible. House is built of stone, poured concrete reinforced with rebar, rafters are set in a poured concrete ring beam. So they cut me a break. They tried to raise it, said I was in a flood plain, but the house is perched 450ft up a steep hillside. Still I had to get a surveyors statement to convince them.
After the last hurricane, insurers pulled out, no one could get insurance. Banks demanded it, people went without for a year or more. I was lucky to get this.
Its a racket I tell ya.
Sounds like a great house…. more of a lair? Have you been on “Worlds Most Extreme Homes?”
Made out of concrete, should be fireproof too?
So==you got fire, flood, hurricane as statistically unlikely.
You ought to be allowed to go “bare.” Save a lot of money once the mortgage is paid off?
Some people put their money in the stock market, I pay off my mortgage, and my debts, its a sure thing. But hurricanes are statistically likely. Earthquakes as well since its in the Caribbean. Its solid but it’s not indestructible.
Its not elaborate, its small but nice and I insisted on building it strong after living through 2 hurricanes.
Amen.
Same Left misrepresentation as in Sandy storm (and as one who have lost house in Sandy storm I empathize with victims but also see reason in the REAL related Senate issue).
Support for victims is NOT denied. BORROWING to support victims is what is at stake. And it must be pushed hard. Emergency disaster help – certainly. But only and only by means of CUTTING needless and non-emergent spending to relocate already designated (and already in borrowing mode) funds. If need be shut National Parks or Art endowments and museums (again, all of which I love to use and enjoy – so this is not “cut what I don’t like”), stop funding corporations and railroads,… Cut across the board. But do not spend a cent of newly and additionally borrowed money on assistance. Plenty of items in the budget that are worthless vs. any disaster help. Enough to help with weekly earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, wild fires,… whatever. Never mind this one instance.
Blame is on Senators who are ready and willing to borrow for this purpose and won’t cut anything else. Not on brave souls who dare stop the mad spending.
So, doucheanal==are you for or against giving disaster relief aid to OK?
You are unusually spastic above.
Anyone understand INSURANCE?
]And why it costs TONS in this area?
QUIT building homes that can be destroyed..MAKE A BUNKER.
Make homes from materials that DONT FALL DOWN, Easily..
MAKE them underground if you WANT..
GET A HINT ALREADY..this is not the first time this has happened.
Speaking of hints find the caps lock key on your keyboard. Now remove it.
You can fix that in the registry, to keep from “accidentally” turning it on.
http://howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/disable-caps-lock-key-in-windows-vista/
But I don’t think its an accident.
6of 8 OK House Representatives voted NO on Hurricane Sandy Relief funding (Republicans of course). I wonder if they will have a change of heart on this disaster. Consistency of Hypocrisy — which to choose?
A Boy and His Dog (1975).
This movie should be the basis of a solution for tornado alley residents. Especially the residents of Oklahoma between Tulsa and Oklahoma city.
That movie was terrible I prefer Hell comes to Frogtown.
I thought the movie was campy.
Your suggestion looks promising for a few good laughs. Looks like a good B movie. Not on Netflix anymore it appears, but it’s on YouTube. Thanks, I’m a film buff and B and cult films are happiness to me and the wife.
Omamba is trying to cover this up.
he caused this with a secret weapon. Omamba is the cause of the storm. Everyone knows he caused the storm, I read this on the internet. And fox news. And the RNC site says they don’t lie be cause you can’t lie on the internet.
Pol’s will typically vote NO on a “no-brainer” Bill because, in my observation, roughly 20-30% of any Bill, actually pertains (and vaguely) to the advertised “slogan” of the Bill (disaster relief, in this case) and the rest of the Bill is filled with special interest/lobbying crap (or the complete opposite of said Bill / title) that has zero to do with the Bill’s intention.
Option #2, ofc, is just asshat Pol’s that vote against anything written by the so called “opposition” no matter what it is.
and the fun Option #3, -they vote no because they didn’t think of it first. ha!
anyway we need all new people in .gov -this bunch has been stealing from us for at least a century.
yada yada,
-s
Should the Feds (the tax-payers actually) help OK?
When was the last time that a twister destroyed the place?
If it is more often than every 20 years repeatably, then no they shouldn’t get help, it’s time to relocate.
Otherwise it is similar to having unprotected sex and expecting the tax-payers to pay for all of your kids.
Said the idiot who lives in the city and thinks food is grown at Wal-Mart.
Really?
You should at least know who you are trash-talking before you open your mouth and look like a fool.
I live in cold northern Canada.
I grew up on a farm, out in the sticks, raising and growing our own food, with an outdoor out-house.
I walked a mile to get to the school bus (no lie).
As an adult I live in a small community 15 miles from where I grew up, that is mostly farming.
Have you ever fed the cattle, slopped the hogs, or axed and plucked chickens?
I have, so bite me.
Who’s the idiot now, idiot?
If someone is stupid enough to keep re-building their house on the same location that it gets destroyed every year or two or decade or two, they don’t deserve any money from anyone else to bail out their idiocy.
I bet it was uphill both ways too.
No, only one way was uphill.
For me it was. School bus picks us up at the top of the hill and drops us off at the bottom.
Meh, you’re probably making all that up anyway, farmboy.
Besides, the only disaster Canadians have to face is when they run out of Moosehead.
Tend to your own business, we don’t need your advice, Canadian.
xenophobe
Republicans just dislike government that doesn’t help THEM. They can’t stand the idea that government might help someone ELSE. They’re fine with government giving farm subsidies to farmers in THEIR state. Fine with tax payer funded prisons, military bases, etc in THEIR state. Fine with FEMA funds for THEIR state. Fine with anything that helps them (re: “bridge to no-where”). But if it designed to help someone else, screw them. Just greedy and self centered.
Let’s see, How much did Israel get from us today?
I’m sure everyone favors supporting them over the Moore residents.
Isreal believes you are not, not saved.
Thanks Puhrkelle. Go back to smoking dope for your church.
No. They should help the illegal aliens ( unauthorized aliens according to the rat pack ) find their true home.
Tom Coburn has announced that he is opposed to funding for Oklahoma that is not offset by other spending cuts. Same as with other disasters. So there goes your hypocrisy charge.
Now, I don’t know about tornadoes, but with hurricanes, the Feds operate a cheap insurance plan that undercuts the other insurance companies, and actually encourages people to build where they are likely to need the Feds to bail them out, because it’s now such a good deal.
Actually it makes it even more hypocritical because Coburn know that the “liberals” are going to override him and force him to take disaster relief.
So what does Coburn say we should cut to pay for Oklahoma?
You’re reaching Eiditor levels of idiocy there. Now it’s even more hypocritical to stick to your principles? This is even dumber than when they attacked Bill Bennett’s gambling.
This wasn’t even their biggest tornado in Oklahoma in the last 15 years, not even close. Oklahoma can probably handle it on its own.
Good for the Oklahoma Senators to stand up for the taxpayers and not let their colleagues sneak in all sorts of pet projects under the guise of emergency funding.
I’ll have to look, but I’d bet the reason they (Coburn and Inhofe) opposed the Hurricane Sandy bill was for the exact same reasons — pet project “riders” in the bill and the inability to balance the fiscal offsets of that bill.
Thanks for info. It’s appalling that the leftists in the media never care enough to tell the WHOLE story. You can’t exactly say that they lied here either. But omitting certain facts is no less just as bad. It’s even worse when facts are knowingly omitted which I’m the one guy reporting this story did — and which I’m sure the rest of them just repeated (like brain dead lemmings).
The Hurricane Sandy bill was full of pork. They were voting against the pork.
Not even sure if it was a hurricane. I’ve seen many reports qualifying downgrading it to extratropical storm, though there may have been political interference in that decision.
I think you’re correct. The storm was a lot of rain combined with a very large storm surge. We did get some wind but not a hurricane. I get sick and tired of arguing with people about this. If you noticed all the coastal areas were affected the worst. There were some downed trees inland a beautiful 40′ blue spruce across the street from me was blown down.
Liberals are going to be bashing Oklahoma’s Senator for being opposed to funding for his state, and desperate to spend the money, as they always are.
Reminds me of three things:
Governors who refused high-speed rail funding, and liberals insistence they take the money.
Netanyahu calling for a reduction of US aid to Israel, with various establishment types wanting the money to keep flowing.
NATO
Mikey still not appreciating the value of underplaying his position says:
5/22/2013 at 8:30 am
Liberals are going to be bashing Oklahoma’s Senator for being opposed to funding for his state, and desperate to spend the money, as they always are. /// liberals: those who want to help people in need who qualify for aid pursuant to programs already set up and funded? Your equation then must “work” that conservatives want to tax people for such insurance and when the need arises screw them to the wall to save the money collected?—-Good Boy.
Reminds me of three things:
Governors who refused high-speed rail funding, and liberals insistence they take the money. /// I’m sure this happened. But more likely is those insisting money be taken were bought and paid for creeps in the pocket of Big Rail regardless of party. What do YOU bet? You go that way just below. Ha, ha—typical Teaf*ckPublican short attention span.
Netanyahu calling for a reduction of US aid to Israel, with various establishment types wanting the money to keep flowing. /// Establishment types???—Not liberdrools???? Get back on the Meds or Alfie will sit and pray with you.
NATO /// Valuable Organization that benefits the USA more and more as we accept secondary rolls. Whats your real beef with NATO? Once again, were you retardedly reading The UN in your talking points and typed NATO because you really don’t know the difference?
Curious minds …… no. Curious minds don’t care what a shill thinks.
Don’t you have a job to go to or something?
STFU!
The idea of using politics to decide just which Americans get help and which do not is appalling.
I would say SHAME on you liberals. But then, I understand you don’t comprehend the concept.
Approve the funds demand the Teabagger resign before funds are released
Good point. Obama said he would balance the budget by making the wealthy pay a little more. Now that he has gotten his tax increase, if he comes back asking for a debt ceiling increase, he should resign.
Reagan’s raised the debt ceiling 18 times vs Obama 6 times.
Obama gets to raise the debt ceiling 12 more times before you’re allowed to belly ache
LOL, that’s the best you could do? Obama asked for 2.4 trillion dollars in debt ceiling at once.
The problem is with the liberal states and their sense of entitlement and selfishness. Oklahoma doesn’t need federal dollars because of the giving nature of the residents here. One of our basketball players gave one million dollars, one company gave one million while another gave two and a half million. Even a new Texan, and honorary Okie, Glenn Beck, helped raise over one million dollars. I know that’s a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of all the damage but it helps those in need right now rather than waiting days or weeks for federal aid.
One case where someone asked for volunteers to help clear an area of rubble and expected at least 100 people got over 2000 to help. It’s the nature of the people here to help each other and expect nothing in return. You see it all the time in Oklahoma and other like states. Don’t demand our help if you need it, but simply ask for it and you’ll get more than you expected. That’s the way we are here in Oklahoma and our Senators follow suit.
Just like OK has to declare a State of Emergency and ask for Federal help?
Read your own post: the voluntary help provided is “a drop in the bucket” compared to what is needed.
That about sums it up.
I said Oklahoma doesn’t need federal aid. I did not say Oklahoma wouldn’t accept federal aid. We would survive and rebuild without it and be content. Knowing that if we are in need as individuals that we have family, friends and neighbors to help. We wouldn’t riot, demand money from the government or even expect it. We are not dependent on federal aid. I know helping your neighbors must be a foreign concept to you but it is alive and well in Oklahoma. Are there any other words here you’d care to twist to meet your negative views about conservatives?
This sort of reminds me of Mass. situation. They’ve voted down raising taxes for their citizens for years. And yet their “Big Dig” highway project thru Boston, cost more to fund than the State could have afforded. So the US taxpayer footed most of the cost. It’s Ok with the Mass. millionaires if the rest of us pay higher taxes. And/or more for food, clothing, and health care, because the deficit spending raises inflation, and decrease the value of the currency. But Massachusetts citizens (mostly the rich ones) aren’t going to stand paying for all of that free ride spending they’re getting. Shame on them too.
They’ve raised taxes in Massachusetts not too long ago with the current governor, after Mitt Romney raised lots of fees but kept the income tax rate steady. The Federal Government footed the bill because that’s what they always do. Most of that project could have been skipped, such as a special tunnel for rich people in the Cape to get to Logan Airport faster.
I feel for the regular people of Oklahoma, who felt they needed to live where they are. In a part of the country that potentially gets more of these storms, than any other. It’s not their fault. It’s probably were the jobs all are, now. Corporations, realizing that they can have low cost labor, in parts of the US, sparsely populated in the past. Lead to a housing development boom, where homes probably hardly existed, a few decades ago. And for good reason. But then an once in 50 years storms, blows thru town X. Proving why it’s not such a wise idea to live there. And the citizens wonder why God is punishing them? Or the local politicians are wondering, why this had to happen on their watch? But nobody points a finger at what cause the people to put themselves in harms way, knowingly or (more likely) unknowingly. Like the days of the Dust Bowl era, some profiteering deal was at work. And the people got screwed, when nature simply did what it would normally do, if nobody was living there.
It’s like that philosophical question, “If a tree falls in the forest, when nobody is around. Does it make a sound?” You don’t want to be building a home, beneath a large tree that might fall on it. Just because you never saw such a tree fall down, before. And you don’t want to build a home, directly facing the ocean. Just because you haven’t heard of a hurricane hitting that part of the shore line before. But there will be some with money and influence, to convince you otherwise. And they’ll try like hell to get you to invest in living in a home, in a dangerous area. Because of jobs and opportunities, in those areas, the government and corporations conspired to arrange for. Rather than arranging for the job growth to happen in older, safer, established population zones. Because the wealthy only make more money encouraging “Urban Sprawl”. Even when it sprawls into Hurricane Alley. And they’re the ones, really counting on the taxpayers to pick up the pieces. Because without a well funded recovery, people would wise up and not live there again.
So basically, in a nutshell, FEMA is a subsidy to whoever builds the new homes, and moves their jobs to underdeveloped areas. They’re the ones counting on the disaster relieve, when the sh*t hits the fan. So they can keep on developing in weather ravaged America, at the taxpayers’ expense.
You got it right, John.