Consider that in California, millionaires on top of the 39.6 percent they’ll pay to the federal government in 2013, there’s an additional 14.63 percent that now goes to the state. Add in payroll taxes, local taxes, and property taxes, and I’ve seen estimates that the total tax bite could exceed 60 percent here.
But the rich aren’t paying their “fair share.”
Rachel Maddow was last seen running screaming from the set.
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He still has more to live on than a single person earning $20,000.00 per year and paying no taxes.
And that is irrelevant. We are not in Communism “from everyone as much as he can, to everyone as much as he needs” idiocracy. That have solidly failed wherever applied. Because in such system person earning 20000$ per year has no pressure to do better and person earning 200 Mil.$ has exactly opposite pressure to earn less instead to do better.
When every person and corporation pays the same percentage of every earned dollar with no exceptions or loopholes – than it is fair system in which everyone has proportionally same responsibility for running and funding Government (hence equal drive to see that money spent wisely), has no need to waste money and time on finding loopholes or honey pots, has exact predictable expectation what taxes he/she/it pays and most importantly has equal drive to do better as by doing better at any stage of wealth – results in real and proportional increase in wealth.
Your Republican party is fighting tooth and nail against closing loopholes, dusanmal. Gee, I wonder why?
Dear Dush..(sp)
Under Communism, there are NO TAXES..
Why are you Flinging words.
Dont throw out Words ro meanings, you dont Understand.
“When every person and corporation pays the same percentage of every earned dollar with no exceptions or loopholes – than it is fair system in which everyone has proportionally same responsibility for running and funding Government”
NO..
Under a democracy, we have to be ACTIVE in government. We have to goto MEETINGS to get our words heard..We have to send LETTERS and tell our representatives, WHAT we want.
The Difficulty tends to be, WHO IS PAYING MORE to be heard the loudest..
I agree with most everything you said. You also make a good argument FOR the “flat tax” which was first proposed by a Republican. ( http://www.heritage.org/research/factsheets/2012/01/the-new-flat-tax-encourages-growth-and-job-creation ) After all, fair is fair.
But you left out one other key thing about staying involved, you need to also stay INFORMED and NOT believe the rhetoric of your own party (or the other one)! Perhaps the best way to help guide your pursuit of knowledge in politics is to follow another piece of age old advice, follow the money.
(I might also suggest you learn some more English skills since you seem to have incorrectly used the word “than” for the word “then” despite the horrible sentence structure. It’s a little annoying and hints at a seriously lacking education which also tends to hint that you’re not very well informed. — I know, it’s nitpicking.)
Millionaires paying the scheduled rate? Let me get my rubber boots.
Uh-huh, all millionaires cheat on their taxes right? Well I’m a “millioniare” and I fear the IRS more than I do contracting cancer. And you better believe I pay all my taxes.
I don’t like it but I do.
I’m a millionaire, too, but I don’t pay my taxes.
My customers pay them for me.
I’ve about come to conclusion that I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if liberals want to raise taxes or not. They aren’t raising my taxes. They are raising the prices for the goods I produce and sell. They’re only cutting their own throats.
Let it burn!
Who was right Rachel Maddow or Bill Mahr?
Me thinks Rachel Maddow was right!
Right about what?! THEY’RE BOTH RIGHT!
The thing that’s so interesting although, weirdly funny is that they’re fighting about it. Why fight when you both AGREE?!
OK! I sense you (or someone) is going to go on the rich people bashing kick (again). But look at what Bill Mar said:
That’s the key! Because, you know what? Rich people, rich people… I’m sure you’d agree with it (pointing) actually do pay the freight in this country. (Host/guest asks: “Do we?”) I just saw the statistics and some of these (rich people) pay like 70-percent. And here in California, I just want to say, liberals, you could actually loose me. It’s outrageous what we’re paying. Over 50 per… I’m willing to pay my fair share. But ya. I mean it’s ridiculous.
So the thing that seems to keep getting muddled up is whether we’re talking about a demographic (group) of “rich people” or INDIVIDUAL “rich people”. And I admit, it’s a little hard to keep up when they keep switching around like that.
Just another 4 old white dudes on a TV panel complaining about having to pay taxes.
Meh, You Commies won’t be happy till we’re all totally dependant on the gov’t.
With typical total ambiguity, Anonymous says:
3/16/2013 at 11:37 am
You believe the Stock Market numbers are REAL? Ha, you are an idiot. /// Yes, I believe they are real. I take things at face value unless obviously false, or a good argument with facts explains otherwise. The only obvious truthful meaning of your words would be that the market is inflated? But that is a BS position to take, so I wonder if you have any substance to your comment, or if you are Pedrolike just yawning the way that TeaPublicans do?
How are the Stock Market numbers not Real?
The only problem with stock pricing is that people, meaning people who don’t have any skin in the game, dont realize that the words they’re hearing don’t mean what they normally mean when they use the same words.
Its a gambling game with a gambler’s verbiage: “We thought the company’s value was going to do this (go up or down,) and it didn’t so we’re punishing you by making the stock value do down thereby making the owner’s equity be worth less than if the company’s value had behaved according to our expectations.”
The problems come when the gambler’s, viz:the stock market players’, expectations cant possibly be met.
Which is why its crucial for corporate managers to expose all kinds of problems, real and unreal, to dampen enthusiasm, even though the know that they are doing they best they can.
How else can you explain the over-valuation and “irrational exuberance” that takes over the gambler’s (lack of) judgement?
The trouble is that the company’s management entered into a devil’s bargain with a bunch of over-privileged (wealthy) children (psychotics) in order to get the money they needed to operate their business in the manner they wanted to.
Well Mpod, that is a valiant effort, and its not your posted notion, but THAT is not responsive to the complaint and challenge made.
Yes, all sales are BS. But the point wrongfully made is that the NUMBERS WEREN’T REAL.
Of course the numbers are real. Like Statistics, the numbers are real. Its what liars, stooges, and marks make of them that felonious fraud takes flight from, very much as you describe. But you enter the argument a few steps away from ab initio. I take that as a subtle admission you believe/(know)/agree that the numbers are as REAL as numbers can be.
Conflation of ideas. What a terrible waste of a mind- – – to whatever degree it exists to begin with.
The word for today is: “Disposable” as in income.
Well, let’s see what pure Horse Shit Douche Anal has between his ears this good Caturday:
dusanmal says:
3/16/2013 at 11:37 am
And that is irrelevant. /// No its not. The OP is about Fairness. Certainly we don’t want to tax the RICH, or anyone else, into poverty now do we? That wouldn’t be fair. Its just EXCELLENT that Doug Roberts established a base line we can all build on.
We are not in Communism “from everyone as much as he can, to everyone as much as he needs” idiocracy. /// I agree. That wouldn’t be fair.
That have solidly failed wherever applied. Because in such system person earning 20000$ per year has no pressure to do better and person earning 200 Mil.$ has exactly opposite pressure to earn less instead to do better. /// Yeah–but in “such a system” people don’t earn such disparate salaries. So Douche Anus, you start right off the bat by mixing and matching whatever you do to reach your pre set bumper sticker outcome. How come you do dat?
When every person and corporation pays the same percentage of every earned dollar with no exceptions or loopholes – than it is fair system in which everyone has proportionally same responsibility for running and funding Government (hence equal drive to see that money spent wisely), has no need to waste money and time on finding loopholes or honey pots, has exact predictable expectation what taxes he/she/it pays and most importantly has equal drive to do better as by doing better at any stage of wealth – results in real and proportional increase in wealth. //// What about people holding down two minimal wage jobs with 3 kiddies supporting their eldeerly parents and they just don’t have any money after the necessities of life are taken care of? What about them Douche? IOW–I could buy off on your REGRESSIVE/UNFAIR system if it was applied to Net Income after Necessary and Ordinary Expenses ((forget the name for that term)). Why is that not fair in your book?
Care to be informative? …. relevant….. or just post and leave without ever burying your scat first?
RICH = CRIMINAL. Details on Request.
Can’t disagree myself with what you’ve said. Have to stop this. My beef is really that the Rich will take advantage and can take advantage of whatever they can, loopholes or otherwise, to get their dough. I’ve already expressed my discontent about my rich boss and how he treats everyone below him, especially non-white people. Poor to medium classes don’t have the luxury to take advantage or whatever due to fear, lack of money, lack of a good payed lawyer, who knows 🙂
The 200 richest white people in the USA have more money then ALL of the 40 million black folks and thats counting people like oprah and michael jackson!
Why wish for a clever name when you could wish for money? You don’t make any sense at all.
Let’s take a poll? On just a quick read, who here thinks Tightly Corrupt is as dumb as he posts, or is highly intelligent but just a shill?
I’ll vote and say that TC looks like No 2, if you know what I mean. Makes me flush just thinking about what he posted.
Facts huh? Not just name calling among the insiders?
Everyone knows the Pukes “say” a whole bunch of crap but only DO one thing: tax cuts for the rich. Everyone knows that when you bar graph it out the debt goes up more under Pukes than under Dumbo’s===>MEANING, they talk a line of crap but only DO one thing: tax cuts for the rich. its why there is a schism in the Puke Party right now because unlike the Religious Fundies, the TeaPublicans won’t accept being lied to by their Elephantine Brethren. That will make you smile if you just relax and think about it for awhile.
Stupid or Stooge? Ha, ha. A measure of respect actually to call Tightly Corrupt a stooge. And then you relax and think about it for awhile and you smile and you realize that all stooges have a bit of stupidity they can’t quite cover up.
Same as it always was.
Why don’t you Millionaires buy yourselves a Clue? ===>BWHAHAHAHA! Never too late to get an education. Know what I mean?
dave m brewer says:
3/16/2013 at 10:35 pm
Tell me (I’m rich) /// You’re rich. I only hope not RICH.
why I need to pay more taxes than my neighbor who is poor. /// Because you personally benefit from living in a more equal society.
I don’t use the government for anything but my neighbor does. /// Fatuously WRONG. You use the government to keep your neighbor from scaling your walls.
He get food stamps…/// Gee, that is one poor MF’r. What the heck kind of neighborhood do you live in???? MOVE!!!!
free day care… /// Who else is going to breed the soldiers you need to keep your estate free from foreign invasion?
reduced heating and electric so on and so on. /// Yes, the alternative being?……………
The way I see it my neighbor needs to pay more taxes than I! /// Yes, thats just the way you see it, being deaf, blind, stupid, self centered, short sighted, miserly of heart and so forth. But coming off the enjoyable word play==all you have failed to come to terms with is………………………………………..
…………………………………….
……………………………………………….
Do you have a clue as to what you need to deal with>?????
……………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………….
Yes…………………………………………….
That Old Buggaboo …………………………………………………..
…………………………………………………………………
You still have time. What do you think it is that prevents Poor People from Paying their fair share of taxes? ………………….
………………………………………………………………………
…………………………………………………………………………..
Ok. I’m on the verge of leaving you hanging. “But”……..
Its REALITY. Society needs a certain level of funding in order to function rationally and at its peak. It is a Bell Shaped Curve. Too Little Tax (as Now) and society suffers. Same with too Much Tax. The debate should fairly tax place in the middle, not at the extremes. Extra Points for whomever can name who is extreme in this discussion.
When my neighbor goes to Wal-Mart he pays the same in tax as I do. That’s the way it should be!!!!!!! /// You mean zero tax for food? I agree. Does Walmart sell Heathcare Services?????? and so forth.
Mine nom de flame took YEARS to carefully hone to the perfection it reveals: the pragmatic, existential, evangelical, anti-theist. Picks up most of the loose threads that tend to fuzz things up.
I could go on, but I’ve just noticed that drinking wine coolers makes me thirsty.
Because you personally benefit from living in a more equal society.<<<<<
So giving my neighbor my money will make him smarter?
You need to get your brown shirt back on and continue practicing thrusting you right arm upwards.
They have done studies in universities… giving average test scores to students predicated on what the test scores given in a given class. Didn't take long and the whole class failed. Finally the smarter students gave up making good grades, why should they bust butts when the stupid ones were free loading off of the hard work.
Once again… thrust hard and upwards. How do you say it… HEIL… something like that. Oh, don't forget the to put those blue contacts in and bleach you hair. If you need to bleach your skin. I'm sure there is a 'how to' on YouTube starting Michael Jackson.
Oh I forgot…
Because you personally benefit from living in a more equal society.<<<
So this means I can bang his wife and daughter too. I have none… he should give (share) his to me. And if the toothless granny there she can come too.
Childish.
YOU certainly ARE!
When I was a millionaire I handed everything over to a CPA who was familiar with all the tax loopholes and investment strategies that minimized my tax liability.
Of course, I live in a state that does not have a state income tax.
Bill Mahr should consider hiring a financial strategist and maybe investing in things like tax-free municipal bonds.
Anybody who believes the hype that millionaires don’t have advantages and loopholes in our tax code is simply not paying attention.
EVERYONE has the same income tax loop hole advantages. The problem is that NOT everyone has the same (amount of) MONEY coming in to really make it all work!
So what’s the solution? As you might have guessed, the liberals answer is to take away everyone’s money so that we’re all fair.
Bill should ask Mitt Romney how to shelter his income from tax liability.
As the Washington Post’s Greg Sargent reported, Romney’s advisers averaged his tax rates over 20 years to get a number for his tax burden over that period. But it would have been more accurate to take Romney’s total tax paid over that period and divide it by his total earnings to get a new percentage. Sargent spoke to Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center, about this problem:
“Let’s say you have 10 years in which you paid 13 percent in taxes, and 10 years in which you paid 27 percent,” Williams told me. “If you average those rates, you’ll get an overall rate of 20 percent. But if the 13 percent years were high income years, and the 27 percent years were low income years, then his total taxes paid as a share of total income over the 20 years would be less, perhaps significantly less, than 20 percent.”
The wake-up call comes to the liberals. It starts to eat on them too. Ooops… not planned.
dave m overly imbibing from the local brewery says:
3/17/2013 at 2:21 am
Because you personally benefit from living in a more equal society.<<<<>>>on our own we are dirt poor bartering apes for the bare necessities. Its only when we build/invest in a society that a merchant, military, scientific class can arise. Seems religion does quite well on bare subsistence. Not megachurches, but everyone still believing with part time Shamans.
Just look. Be wise. Enjoy what you have as others are allowed to do as well RATHER THAN constantly fearful and jealous that others might share.
Easy Peasy.
Share WHAT?! Responsibility or duty? Careful how you answer that. Don’t forget your mantra about being FAIR!
Nuts—review all my nom de plumes. “Fair” is never used.
Look at my nom de flame above. That more than any other is my mantra.
My mantra is intelligent SELF INTEREST. aka==what works and what doesn’t.
Life in fact (fact???–sic) is mostly unfair, however anyone might want to define it. The job of gubment is not to make life fair except as an almost unavoidable consequence of making life work.
I hope you can see the difference……. hard to see anything with your head up your ass as it is. Kinda an unfair handicap you give yourself there.
Ha, ha.
By pure Serendipity by Equal and Opposite Realities, TEADud says:
3/16/2013 at 5:18 pm
What a dork, corporations don’t pay taxes, their customers or their employees do.
It all gets passed on. //// Yes–a tax being paid targeted to the people who actually use that service===the best way a tax can be structured. Comes out more like a “fee” but that is a slight tangent.
But make it too high, and they take their jobs with them out of country… //// …. and tax policy if not corrupted by the RICH could make that decision a no brainer not to do but currently tax policy encourages off shoring. Course, you’d have to have a bunch of PRAGMATIC non self dealing practitioners enforcing such a regime–aka, it will never happen. But thems the nuts.
Liberals are the most stupid people I know. /// Tsk, tsk. But I feel your pain.
Ha, ha. Stoopid Hoomans. Doing it to themselves under the guise of freedom. Now thats really stupid.
Yea, verily.
This guy gave BO a million and complains about high taxes? That is wild. Obama would like to double or triple his taxes.
You’re just not hyperbolic enough to be understandable!
A real republican would be much more hyper-hyperbolic!
You sir are just not committed to your kind. You must embrace and be one with the republican deleterious forces of evil! You must be most ruthless and vile of ways to be a true republican!
Commit yourself and be one with Dick Cheney, a dark-side mastermind!
The US government spends more $$$ than even the rich people have.
Who has $1 trillion sitting around to cover this year’s deficit?
The government should print off $1-$2 trillion a year and we should just accept that slow gradual inflation is going to be the new normal.
It is interesting that Texas is able to make bold choices to keep their state budget balanced while having no state income tax, while California and Illinois sink into the mud.
But the reality is the politicians in California don’t get along well enough to make hard choices like Texas.
California might end up being like the city of Detroit.
Texas also has something not too many other states have:
Oil and Natural Gas.
It’s easy to balance when you’ve got a cash cow.
And don’t believe the “No Income Tax” myth. Businesses pay them but they are called “Franchise Taxes” instead. It’s against the Texas Constitution to institute income taxes so they renamed it. And they are based on a company’s GROSS income. Perry lied through his teeth during the debates (Gov and Pres) when he said he didn’t raise taxes in TX.
Bingo.
California has those things too. It is one of the largest oil producers, and has it’s own shale deposits ready to be exploited if the state leaders would allow it.
A Real Fair Tax
2013 spending $3.803 trillion
Percentage of revenue from income tax 42%
Revenue from income tax $1.60 Trillion
Population over seventeen 232 million
Tax burden for each adult $6,896
Everybody send in a check for $6,896.
I seem to be in a tight spot at the moment.
Do you mind if I put that on a credit card?
Sure thing! Put it on your American Excess card.
I’m sure Maher will relocate out of California to solve the problem. It’s not like he can’t make his set in Nevada.
Las Vegas would welcome Bill Maher.
Bill Maher is occasionally willing to look at reality rather than spout liberal talking points. See his talking about education reform, where he points out how teachers never get fired. Michael Eric Dyson had to bob and weave to get away from that question.
So perhaps Maher has realized the stupidity of running a government of a state with tens of millions of people based on the taxes of a few hundred thousand.
The problem is the rich CONTROL PUBLIC POLICY.
Sure they pay taxes but they run our government, which is WHY it overspends in the first place.
I thought it was a pretty good show this week. While I am a little surprised by Maher’s statement, I fully support his right to say it. We seem to forget that most people have both conservative and liberal ideals. I know I don’t completely agree with one party or the other. It would have been nice to watch the show live, but I had to work late at DISH on Friday night. Thankfully I found it online in the HBO section of DISHAnywhere.com. I love it because I can access my favorite shows and movies from any computer that’s handy; I can even get caught up when I am stuck at work!
Bill Maher’s problem is he earns his money as wages, like the rest of us commoners. He needs to find some way to hide all of his income via interest and capital gains, and thus he too can avoid paying taxes like the ultra wealthy. The system is rigged against anyway trying to earn their way to wealth.
The problem with liberal idiots leaving California because of high taxes is, these assholes caused the high taxes and will go to other states and screw them up as well.