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Sure. They paid for it just like everybody else.
WRONG..
MANY did not.
MANY paid into the CORP retirement..and didnt have to pay Social sec.
ALSO Social sec. is limited to the first 100k..after that they dont need to PAY into it.
ALSO, its a MAX of $2600 per year..
ALSO, social sec, is based on your LAST 10 years..ONLY.
ALSO, cutting workers to UNDER 36 hours per week, CUTS company payments to SOCIAL SEC. And CUTS retirement pay.
My mother who worked, DIDNT GET social sec, Hers is based on her husband..which only made it 1.5 times HIS RETIREMENT.. He died, and NOW she only gets HIS retirement and LOST the .5 increase..She gets $600 per month..
MANY business like to RETIRE/FIRE low income workers..EARLY. They like to FORCE extra work onto them also..trying to get them to QUIT..before retirement.. LONG term workers tend to get MORE money.. and generally have higher wages from being long term. AND cut hours.. They want you to QUIT early with SHORTER hours..and your retirement is cut in 1/2…
$26,000??
I would LOVE to get 1/2 of that..
DELTA airlines filed bankruptcy..and TOOK ALL RETIREMENT FUNDS…all those people, had to go onto Social sec..even tho they PAID for a retirement fund that would TRIPLE what Social sec would be paying them..
This is just ignorant. First off anyone who has held some property and has a few dollars in the bank can be a “millionaire” and be essentially broke unless they sell everything.
AND if we are going to begin to think this way about net worth then let’s do it right and call for a wealth tax like they use in Switzerland! This notion will also quiet Buffet and Gates.
ALSO I have worked for plenty of companies who have retirement systems and I am still required to pay SSI. It’s the law.
http://taxes.about.com/b/2013/01/03/social-security-tax-for-2013.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defined_benefit_pension_plan
MANY did not.
Then they broke the law and all bets are off.
How hard is that to understand?
Well Loser, off the top of my head, I recall that certain government workers and sub contractors and in general the Rail Roads and closely related Unions were exempt from Soc Sec participation in favor of their already existing as good or better retirement system.
All kinds of people got hosed because of those favored statuses as the small print gained precedence over the years.
Why so closed minded and assuming? WHAT?—you think its an issue of liberty?
……oh, loser.
Just can’t scrape this booger off my finger.
It’s not a savings plan for the sheeple but rather an insurance of sorts.
If was a savings plan, it would have been called the Sheeple Savings Plan.
Do they pay into it? Then of course they should be able to get the money they put into it out again. Social Security isn’t a tax, it’s an investment.
Social Security is NOT an investment. There is no account with your name on it accumulating money. The money you “pay into” SS goes to CURRENT beneficiaries. When you retire and claim SS, the money you get will not have been the money you “paid into”, but rather money collected from other people as a tax, just as your money is collected as a tax and re-distributed to seniors. The myth of SS being an investment like a 401k needs to die.
WRONG ….. go read before you get on the interwebtubes and make a fool of your self .
You do have an account it is called an social security number , they know exactly what you have paid and exactly what you will be paid out
Maybe your should go read. Just google “social security myths”. It’s mentioned, time and again, that it’s a pay-as-you-go system and always has been. The SSN is no more an account number than the number on your driver’s licence is. I’d post links, but my last post attempt with links failed.
Gee, when the cops put my license number thru the system they come back and ask me if I EVER drive the speed limit.
Its like an account for some purposes, but not like an account for other purposes.
Why must all too many issues default along the simplest of extreme characterizations?
Ain’t you got no appreciation for ambiguity at all?
When introduced SS was NOT intended to be a tax or investment. It have been sold to American people as a mandatory Government backed insurance (just like something else recently…) from extreme old age for which one could not rationally plan.
Person (of any wealth) have been supposed to PLAN his/her life ahead and provide for own retirement as best they could. However, planning requires estimate of longevity. For those people living beyond average life span of the day (65), Government established SS as insurance mechanism, so that they do not go without any funds if they are lucky to live longer than expected.
As such (insurance), no one should be able to restrict it by wealth of recipient. However, same as when it was introduced, it works as intended only and only if it is limited by age. Instead of “65 for ever” the only change that should be made is that it becomes available once you live beyond average life span of that moment. If lifespan grows, later, if it shrinks, faster,…
Social security was originally enacted for widows who at that time were outliving there husbands and had no source of viable income
You were never supposed to live long enough to collect it.
I look forward to getting the meager return on the 100s of thousands of dollars that I have invested in Social Security over my lifetime. How much money I have when I start getting paid back is irrelevant.
Fun chart here says: “You LIE!”
Such is the fantasy world you live in. Beware of contact with the real world.
https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0301404300
Besides having wrong headed politics, you’re a smacked ass. I’ve been working full time for 42 years and that chart shows that I’ve paid in around $300,000. That doesn’t include the matching amount my employers paid in, some portion of which would be in my own pocket if they didn’t have to part with the money.
Who’s the liar?
bobbo, Financial Advisor to the Stars says:
3/6/2013 at 3:06 pm
Really? I just added up the last 40 numbers roughly in my head and came to about $140,000 or so.
I recall when I never added numbers without a tape. The tape is gone and evidently so is my neurobiological adding machine.
Yes–300K would be multiples of 100k’s. But I forget your original complaint==I assume you will still get more out than you put in? Or are you complaining of any means testing in the future? AKA==not happy with what you have but overly concerned about anything you have been “cheated” out of?
Whatever floats your boat. Shylock wanted what was due to him as well.
“I deserve whats mine…. screw the fucked over masses. They didn’t make the right decisions like I did.”
You’re obviously not here to have a cogent sequential discussion. Stop pretending like you are.
PM==I have to ask you what you think sequential means?
Or is that too direct?
The government knows exactly how much each individual has paid in. Once a recipient has collected that amount, any further payouts should be means tested.
I think Social Security would be worthwhile even if it were means-tested. If all your other retirement plans go awry as they often do, this is the one that remains. If the bankers, investment counselors, and other con artists successfully separate you from your money, Social Security remains. Insurance has value in the peace of mind it gives you, even if you never need to file a claim. Social Security can be thought of in that same way.
the chart compares apples to oranges. median income does not equal net worth, although I would expect them to be positively correlated.
I like the idea of means testing once you have drawn more than a certain %-age of what you paid in.
You can wish for this or that but this is a contract and people are “entitled” to what they are owed. Period. If you do not like it then change it. But note that the change will affect YOU and not those collecting SS today.
We can’t all be Ida May Fuller. $24.75 paid in. $22,888.92 received.
By law—yes, of course. If they lose their millions, then the limitation would not apply.
By social policy: SS is a welfare program and should be means tested.
More important: the Already Too Rich should be taxed the honest 35-40% of income as called for in the code. Loopholes, dodges, and paid for entitlements should not be allowed.
Lack of social mobility and landed Gentry have reached banana state proportions in the GOUSA==>worse than when the Great Depression hit.
The voting puclic allows the injustice to continue confusing it with the TeaPublican lie of freedom being bought hook, line, and stinker.
Silly Hoomans.
I’ll take the money. I paid into it… but, how is it not a giant PONZI scheme anyway?
Really?
Narrow Context: Because the full faith and credit of the USA stands behind the fund==not just the money collected otherwise for the fund.
Broad Context: Everything is a Ponzi Scheme. The fraud of inflation or growth covering a multitude of sins.
“Because the full faith and credit of the USA stands behind the fund”
HAW HAW, Do unicorns come with that Faith and Credit?
What is it about the Broad Context that notes everything is a Ponzi Scheme do you not understand?
Slow down a bit there slick. All kinds of reality is passing you buy without the benefit of your observation.
We really need to retire the term “millionaire” as some kind of benchmark.
A million dollars just aint shit these days. If you retire with a net worth of a million dollars at say age 63, and you didn’t invest in a 401K scam that could disappear at any given moment, you have to rely on that for 20 – 30 years.
If you think MM is shit, what about the 90% of society that retires with only SS to call on?
Hmmmm…. what is less enjoyable than shit? Warm shit with lumps and horseflies??
“♫ Dream Warriors….dreaming their dreams….
wet dreams….XXXX Ooohhh==there it is: What is worse than having a million dollars when you retire?===Warm shit with lumps and horsefiles covered in wet dreams===>guarded by a Dream Warrior.
I burn million dollars piles …. because I disdain such paltry amounts.
Peasants!!!
You live in California, do you own a house? Then you’re net worth is probably over a million. Does that make you wealthy? Hardly.
So….. NO amount of sarcasm will allow you to reassess your claim that ONE MILLION DOLLARS is shit?
……and no–I don’t own a house. A double wide just like mine sold in the park for 8000 just a few months ago. I hear the market is going back up. ((My house mate calls me Rich. I smile each time she says that. “OH, THE IRONY!)) …but I’m on the verge of kvetching.
“I never cared about money”—-until I needed it. Paupers Prayer Book of Remembrances.
I have seen so-called Million dollar homes in your state, a wise man would move, but that doesn’t change the fact that those people are considered millionaires.
I have never cared about money either, but I have been cautious about where it went, I will not count on the government to take care of me. If SS is there when I choose to retire fine, but I won’t “depend” on it.
McC–I consider myself “luckier” than most. But its true, I never cared about money, and my options are limited now. I don’t even much care, but I do notice it.
BUT—the issue is….. what? From whether Millionaires should get SS segue into a Million Dollar Estate at time of retirement is not ….what?…. in your view?
You dodge 95% of any question ever put to you. Mine was: if MM is shit, what about the 90% (sic-?) of society that retires with only SS to call on?
I mean…. whats your point…..really? That more is better??? Ha, ha. There is even that ad on tv about little kiddies saying that “More is Better” with the annoucer saying “More is Better…. its not that complicated.”
Care to move beyond the 8 yo level? I say this not to needle you but to move the discussion along?
Who says that an estate well above the 90th percentile is insignificant?
WHO SAYS THAT McC??? Iow—who are you???
Can you appreciate the fruits of your success? What does your self sufficiency really mean to you? Does that position help or hinder your empathy to your fellow man? etc.
So many questions.
Sure if they need it.
I don’t know why but a week ago it hit me that the standard management fee on my investment portfolio of 1% a year was a total rip off. I should have converted my TSA funds every year to a no fee account of some kind. Like those market basket accounts?
In 40 years, I could have 60% more?
The Daily Grind: making the money with the investment aspects in the back of the mind if there at all. Then, when you pay ((PAY!!)) attention, its too late. Good to remember the days of youthful expectations. No Societal Defaults, no disease. No Divorce. No Bank Fraud….etc.
Makes me wish I was in a pod in the Matrix. Just put me to sleep.
Ha, ha.
But words to the wise nonetheless.
If you’ve been investing in airport security for decades, you should be doing very well.
Yeah–I never made targeted investments just broadly based annuity funds. I was a…… sheeple because I found money and retirement boring and too distant.
Not the case when you are up to your neck in it day after day.
Context.
Same thing that allow McC to say retirement with a Million Dollar Home, bank accounts, retirement accounts, and such is “shit.”
Imagine ECA’s and mine embarassment to be envious of that shit? Yes…. its true. Not deep deep green jealousy==more like nitrogen deficient grass that hasn’t been watered for a week kind of green?
Ha, ha.
As usual you missed the point.
Also, if you think all I have to do all day is sit on this blog and debate every asinine point you bring up, you are mistaken. I have a job. Maybe you need to get one so you can stop fretting about how you and your ilk are going to steal money from those who do.
Har.
So you say.
So, what is the point??
I say that a Million Dollars is a worthy milestone to be proud of that 90% of the sheeple can only look at in admiration, respect, and some bit of jealousy.
You say it is shit.
Too bad you are so busy you can’t take the time to explain why our highest aspirations are but shit in your mind.
We could all learn to be better people.
pedro failing to note the yawn says:
3/6/2013 at 1:46 pm
This is exactly what I have tried to teach dumbbo everytime he goes into his stoopid “rich=thief” generalization. /// As a generalization, its true. If you think you aren’t being stolen from, then be Happy. You are the mark at the table that doesn’t know who the mark is.
When the top.1% of taxpayers in America captured 95% of the increase in wealth in the GOUSA over the past 15 years totally reflected by the decline in real wages of the bottom 85% of the wage slaves, do you think that because YOU got a few wage increases that you haven’t been stolen from by the Rich… as defined? Lets play some Poker!
Sadly, he’s your run-of-the-mill liberul, unable to see reality. /// Ha, ha. I am NOT run-of-the mill. I am FAR LEFT…man! I make liberals afraid of their positions. I stride among thee as a Collusses!!! No need to cut the cards.
DEAR DAVE..
I have a problem with the Graphic..
I clicked it and something seems wrong about it.
IT seems to RECENT..I dont think it counts anyone before the last 5 years..
“27% have income of LESS THAN $15,000” Thats the Current min wage..40 hours per week, full time..
RETIREMENT age should be based on PAST wages, NOT current wages.. Wages from about $1.65-2.35 per hour..
in the end, MOST people who retire under $15k per year will only be getting about $600-800 per month..
THINK HARD about getting retirement UNDER $1000 per month.
Social Security is insurance, not an investment. It is poverty insurance for those unable to work or the elderly to keep them from having to live on the street. It is NOT a replacement for a retirement plan or investments.
Agreed.
Its more like insurance than it is like an investment BUT it is most like a welfare program.
Regardless of how you like to think of it, it is what it is.
current talk of having to cut its benefits is as valid as the presumptions made to come to that conclusion. Trying to Privatize Soc Sec should be seen as attempted theft.
Yes……RICH = THIEF.
Just look. Don’t let the bastards steal from you more than they do already. There are only so many Pedro’s who willingly place themselves on the Executioner’s Block under the illusion it is self actualization. These idiot humans are still out numbered in the voting booth but the Big Money is gunning for them with Obama already on his knees.
Silly foolish Hoomans. We are not animals.
If you’re net worth is over $5M, you don’t need a government paycheck for your social security. That is what my administration would immediately put in place .
± says:
3/6/2013 at 2:56 pm
Besides having wrong headed politics, you’re a smacked ass. I’ve been working full time for 42 years and that chart shows that I’ve paid in around $300,000. That doesn’t include the matching amount my employers paid in, some portion of which would be in my own pocket if they didn’t have to part with the money.
/////// Well, as I still have some pride in my neurobiological adding machine, I took the maximum contribution from 1972 to 2012 and threw the numbers on a spread sheet then summed them up:===147,703.54
Who’s the liar? //// Heh, heh.
As its getting sleepy outside, PM==if you did pay 100’s of Thousands of dollars into SS, maybe you should have a recorded conversation with your accountant?
….. but I kid.
A million dollars isn’t what it used to be — a million is hardly even sufficient to open a McDonald’s franchise these days. Any kind of transplant operation can eat up a million in a month or two, and a long term illness can consume several.
Still, I wouldn’t turn it down…
Uncle Patso usually right on top of the ball, drops it this time and says:
3/6/2013 at 4:03 pm
A million dollars isn’t what it used to be /// true dat—
a million is hardly even sufficient to open a McDonald’s franchise these days. //// And that is RELEVANT because thats what people do who go into retirement?
Any kind of transplant operation can eat up a million in a month or two, and a long term illness can consume several. /// True dat once again. Catastrophic Illness is an issue this Christian Taliban country will have a time coming to terms with. 25-40% of healthcare expenses fruitless spent on the terminal illnesses of our loved ones. Love or Money? This is when Reality as a bitch really shows her teeth. Hoomans hate teeth……. and Reality ….. BITES!!!!!
Still, I wouldn’t turn it down…//// and thats the whole point. I wonder if its the same point I am missing with McCullough? We’ll never know. He’s too busy to explain why we wouldn’t turn down shit.
Shit, shit, shit.
Yea, verily.
I have millionaire neighbours in their 70’s who not only receive a pension, bus card and subsidised medical, but who are also legally resident in another country where they also get them.
I missed the chance to have dual citizenship. At the time, google told me US citizens could not do it. Either I read it wrong, or things changed.
But here is another dual resident situation I find humorous in context with discussions of Million dollar Net Worth Individuals being “poor”:
One foreign source USA citizen threatening an illegal USA worker with deportation rather than fix whatever was wrong with a 1200/mth apartment:
http://10news.com/news/lawsuit-claims-landlord-let-apartment-fall-apart-threatened-deportation-030513
Would Provence be too much change for me? Somehow, I have become very comfortable in my rut. When you have your health, you truly have 99% of all you need….general assumptions applying.
Social Security is OUR money. If we paid into it then we should be eligible for a payout . It is not play money for our elected officials to do with as they please.
Right on!
If they paid in, the programs should pay out…
If they earn no money, I don’t care if they live in a mansion, they earned the right.
But, if they have income, then it gets taken into account.
Welface, medicare food stamps costs us less that the salaries of the scummy 1%ers who are currently filibustering over, ahem, principle.
It’s not your money. It’s the government’s money. That they told you it’s yours and you believed it makes you more the fool. Once you gave it to them, whether by choice, or not, it became theirs and they spent it long ago.
It is the governments money.
Absent the governments money, we would all be on the barter system.
Government: not something abstract that we can do without but providing basics so necessary that we forget the gravity that keeps us tethered to Earth.
Reality….. even when tweaked a bit as I do.
I kid. I tell the truth. Its a mix of things.
Yea, verily!
There is a job opening in Venezuela bobbo.
In other words, means test benefits. Hell no. They paid in, they should benefit. Simple as that.
That is less than 30,000 per millionaire for you’re a fucking idiot.
I always understood SS to be a kind of insurance thing. And typically you don’t get pay off from insurance policies, unless you really need them. Not just because you reach some age. So no, I don’t think Millionaires should be getting SS payments. If anything, they ought to keep paying into it.
When my father took a part time job, after his retirement. The US govt. withheld SS from what little he was making. Making hardly worth the cost of travel, etc, to be doing the job at all. But Millionaires are always making money, from all sorts of interest and dividend bearing investments, etc. So technically, they are earning a living, even in retirement. So the idea that they’re receiving SS payments, without paying into SS any longer, makes no sense. And Millionaires certainly aren’t IN NEED, of Social Security payouts. The way most citizens are in their old age. Paying for the rising cost of food, gas, and medications.
“I always understood SS to be a kind of insurance thing. And typically you don’t get pay off from insurance policies, unless you really need them.” /// Since SS pays on reaching a certain age, why don’t you think its “not” like insurance? Focusing on the guranteed payment, looks more like a RETIREMENT program to me. Weird Huh?
Interesting totally f*cked up use of an analogy though.
Ha, ha.
b,
My comment about a million not being worth that much these days is less about the intentionally divisive question “Should Millionaires Be Able to Collect Social Security?” and more about the ravening monster inflation. Sure, some inflation comes from the increasing cost of energy now that most of the easy-to-mine fossil fuels are used up, but some of it comes from the inability to maintain enough austerity in fiscal policy to keep the value of money up. The Chinese invented paper money centuries and centuries ago and have tried it more than once. Every time, the value of the money slowly eroded until it fit the old saying of not being worth the paper it’s printed on, even though the very cheapest paper was eventually used.
The prices of most things have passed 10X what it was when I was a kid and is rapidly approaching 15X. So when someone bandies about the word “millionaires” as provocative, I yawn.
Fair enough Uncle but on some level that on faith I take to be relevant you are CONFLATING several issues.
The law has been followed for 70 years that millionaires and billionaires and the dirt poor who only made one payment into the system get their SS on reaching 65. Given that, asking if Millionaires should get their SS is like asking if children should be allowed to eat: its not an issue.
But should millionaires be allowed to draw SS IN THE FUTURE? That is a live question restated as: “Should safety net services be means tested or not.”
My link shows that SS has changed over the years. In substance, SS is a welfare program more like any other than not. The contributions to the plan are more like a general revenue tax than not.
SUBSTANCE–not BS should control our analysis of such issues. Saying millionaires should continue in the program because a million dollars has been subjected to inflation is a red herring. Its not the issue.
The up our own asses beatification of the RICH that takes place in the GOUSA is a mass deception beyond belief. You should not do you part to support it.
RICH = CRIMINAL.
ftn–a MM isn’t what it used to be I agree. Fun to see code section changes upping first level taxation to 5 MM and more. Yes====lets all pity the poor Millionaire. Do away with Inheritance Taxes and all the rest.
SO MY QUESTION IS: if a Million is not that much given inflation and all==how much is NOTHING!!!! Does inflation not affect the poor as well. Poor as in minimun wage, food programs, basic health service etc?
Freaking Idiots!!!
Ha, ha. I just got up and already I want a beer. I’m not sure, but I think this is how alcoholism starts.
My link shows the contribution amounts have changed over the years. Its a gov progra
b,
I see your point. Inflation is a particular bugaboo of mine, and I was using _this_ discussion to complain about _that_. I see how you could read it as feeling a little sorry for the “poor millionaires.”
When you say
‘But should millionaires be allowed to draw SS IN THE FUTURE? That is a live question restated as: “Should safety net services be means tested or not.”’
you get into entitlement reform, and that has been one of the top 2 or 3 hardest-to-deal-with issues for the last 40 years. It brings out strongly defensive feelings in pretty much everybody — they all feel threatened at a basic level, even though it has been obvious the whole time that something really has to be done. I’ve always been amazed they were able to get the last couple of fixes to Social Security done, given the “third rail” aspect.
It’s pretty obvious that any significant reform has to come from the middle of the road, some options from column A and some from column B, etc., but the way the country is getting more and more polarized, I don’t see that happening any time soon.
It looks like Obama is trying to follow that path, but all he gets for his efforts is snub after snub, with the no-longer-Grand GOP even abandoning their own positions if he so much as says “maybe…” I keep hoping he’ll deliver a major speech on the theme of Motherhood, the Flag and Apple Pie, just to watch the PartyOfNO! try to argue against those things.
Maybe it’s time for a third party, a party of radical centrists, the American Compromise Party, the party of ♫ “We can work this out.” ♫
If said millionaires paid into it then I have no problem with them collecting in on what they’re entitled to. Their current financial situation should not disqualify them from collecting their due entitlement from the government’s ponzi scheme.
My Boos, 78 years old. Gets at least 2k+ in SSI, gets pay by the company in 6 figures, runs the facility I’m in so lean it’s not even funny. Where does the profit and revenues go, straight to his pocket as bonuses and raises. Absolutely no one in the facility has gotten a raise in decades or more 🙂 I’m not expected to ever get a raise either hahaha Hell, I can’t even get a caliper to use, that’s how penny pinching this FAR right republican is, and he complains about Obama stuff? LMAO. Gotta love the rich!
Millionaires should be able to get back what they paid in just like anyone…but they should have to pay that small percentage of income up to at least $25oK and not stop paying at $104K. That would give the fund more than enough $ for the future.
This is a red herring.
Because the amount of $$$ that would be saved would be something like $500 million a year — big deal.
The unwashed masses love a class warfare argument and fall for it every time like a dog that isn’t house broken.
“You can arrive in your private jet at Kennedy Airport, take a private limousine and go straight to the shelter system, walk in the door, and we’ve got to give you shelter,” Bloomberg said, speaking on the radio.
Why not? I hope it’s a good idea for every1