Mitt Romney doubled down on his suggestion that uninsured Americans can find the care they need in emergency rooms, telling The Dispatch that people will always receive the treatment they need, and do not die or suffer because they can not pay for care. He pointed to federal law that requires hospitals to admit emergency patients, repeating his advice that patients rely on the most expensive form of care reserved strictly for emergencies.
A little anecdote: A friend of mine is on total disability from an injury some years ago. Getting on Medicare was a nightmare (that’s a long, bizarre story of its own). She developed a problem with her throat. As it got worse over the years, she eventually tried to go the emergency room to get help, but was turned away because (this is key!) it wasn’t bad for her to get treatment enough even though she was having trouble swallowing. Finally, unable to swallow at all, she was given an operation that cost many thousands, paid for by public funds. The doctor told her if she had been able to be treated early on it would have been a simple, cheap, in the doctor’s office procedure.
I guess Romney is right, sort of, but the costs are higher his way. If you don’t die first.
If she’s eligible for Medicare, then Obama don’t care. It’s not worth spending that much money on the last years of life.
At the time, she was 54.
Obama Death Panel proportions care to the years of age. Who knows what some future 54 year old could get under his guidance if that stays.
And for “Death Panels are forbidden to ration care”: yes, they are forbidden from “policing” action. They can’t legally force anyone to ration care. However by very definition they are given “bullying power”. They can (and are instructed by the law to do so) bully providers into voluntary care rationing by exerting long term monetary power over them. Chicago politics in a nutshell.
Oh, you mean like the HMOs that Health Insurance companies formed that had as standard policies to refuse claims a number of times before even attempting to discover whether the claims were actually covered?
6 million uninsured will be paying IRS tax penalties according to CBO. Millions of poor people, all there in the CBO analysis, but apparently they don’t matter because Uncle Dave knows someone who couldn’t get the treatment they needed.
Dead people don’t pay taxes!
If she was such a friend, why didn’t you put up the money?
At the time, I was many thousands in debt.
MikeN, How many friends did you buy Medical care for, and how much?
Romney-Care of Buying Band-aids or paying for a taxi to the emergency room doesn’t count!
Uncle Dave says it’s a cheap procedure, compared to the many thousands of emergency room care, which itself could just mean a cheap procedure the way medical billing is messed up now.
Had it been treated early, it would have been a simple (and cheap) procedure in a doctor’s office. Because she couldn’t get treatment of any kind (she didn’t have insurance or money to pay for a doctor and was told it wasn’t bad enough by the emergency room docs), she finally had to have a full operating room-type operation.
Clear now?
That was clear to begin with. It was a cheap procedure on the order of hundreds of dollars. Somehow because this is not covered by the taxpayers, it is a national tragedy that requires redoing the whole health care system.
Without insurance, nothing is cheap. That is something that should be fixed, but it would lead to less government not more as more people would be able to afford their own health care.
As it currently stands, if you go in for a procedure, the bill is $1000. If you have insurance, the bill is $300 and you pay $60.
Let’s get off Uncle Dave’s back on this one.
From his above comment it’s obvious that she was an “in-betweener”, a person who made too much money to be on Medicaid but not enough to afford insurance.
I’m not sure of Uncle Dave’s point, though.
Romney’s insurance exchange deals with this a little bit and ObamaCare hurts someone in this situation more.
I worked for an insurance exchange some time back and we did have good plans which were moderately affordable designed specifically for just these people.
It’s not that these types of plans are not available, it’s that people don’t know these types of plans are available.
ObamaCare will kill these people by essentially disallowing Flex Spending Accounts and the other programs which were put in place to help these very people.
I didn’t realize this was another tea party induced death-panel debate.
Hope the tea-baggers are enjoying their 49% kindly lifesaving big business HMOs!
We *can* solve the healthcare crisis. Everyone just needs to find a rich friend.
Whew. Im glad you thought of that! Crisis averted!
Since ObamaCare passed, my premiums have shot through the roof. Please don’t tell me that this thing doesn’t have to be repealed.
Obamacare is designed to make money for insurance companies.
What we need is to get rid of insurance companies and their profits. Have a non-profit, non-government agency that administers payments, funded by government mandated tax or whatever. Everybody above a certain income level is required to pay into it.
While I think there are a lot of places to drastically cut back on government spending (starting with the military), healthcare is one area which if set up properly should be handled at a national level.
Yea, because Medicare is such a great system. Estimated fraud of 50 billion dollars is much more than the total profit of all insurance companies.
Not for long, the insurance companies will benefit from o’care. Didn’t the insurance co’s meet privately with the pres.?
Obama care was originally 300 pages..
AFTER congress and reps finished it was 3000 pages..
OBAMA wanted 1 tier, its NOW 2..
IT WAS 5…and anyone could say NO’ to any procedure, including a VISIT to the doc.
Premiums were shooting through the roof before the Affordable Care Act. Lets not pretend this is new.
My premiums went up less than last year. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
Funny, my insurance and I have very good insurance actually went down almost $200 a month last year.
Dave,
Your story is the reason why I am pulling to OVERTURN Affordable Care Act/Obamacare
You have pointed out an all-too-common problem with Medicare. What was Pres Obama’s solution??? PUT MORE PEOPLE ON MEDICARE!! And he did it by defunding $716B from providers — those same hospitals and doctors that turned your friend away.
In his own words, Mr. Obama wanted to make a single-payer-system, which would end private health insurance for all but the uber rich. Obamacare is only a step in that direction.
I agree with you Medicare is scary – I have had first-hand experience with it (fortunately not as harrowing as you describe) so I know what you mean. That’s why I will do whatever job I have to prevent my family from being on it.
If people want to IMPROVE MEDICARE the last thing that should be done is increasing the number of people on it!
Medicare/ER treatment is a subject area I have some “expertise” in. Uncle Dave is entirely correct. Mickey is being his normal twit.
If you care about your wallet, you WANT single payer: its CHEAPER as demonstrated in 18 or so countries with socialized medicine getting better “overall” results than the USA at HALF THE COST. That doesn’t even account for quality of life, satisfaction in society, workplace productivity, encouraging entrepreneurship, etc.
Philosophy does have consequences. Consequences across the board in economics, happiness, individual autonomy. Social Creatures like human beings benefit from Social Programs.
But the desire for enlightenment will always struggle against those ahead of the game in the alternative Darwinian struggle. for the life of me, living in a country where a vulture capitalist like Rmoney can be nearly tied with “anybody” is sad, disheartening, and even somewhat disorienting.
Whats wrong with America?
What’s wrong with America? Judging how for years the well-to-do from across the world (many from those 18 countries you mentioned) came to the US for care because the level-of-care in their so-called Enlightened homeland paled compared to ours.
And you want that here?
Not anymore. Now they go to other countries, sometimes even the socialized medicine countries that have special practices for foreigners only to bring in money, like Cuba.
Healthcare in American is great, if you are “well to do.”
But is is horrible wasteful and totally unaffordable if you middle class or lower.
Please define how your rank “better” outcomes between the USA and other countries. You mean the life expectancy ranking differences that are not really statistically significant, nor do they control for non-medical causes of death like suicide and traffic fatalities (which the USA incidentally rates higher in)? Or are you meaning the infant mortality ranking between countries who don’t even use the same standards for reporting infant deaths, such as the USA statistics including still-born deaths where other countries do not?
It’s one thing to have a preference for a particular government answer to a perceived problem, it’s another to perpetuate bullshit to support it.
Thats a fair question and of course the different studies/polls/comparisons all vary. If you follow the subject as I do what rather confirming is that in all these evaluations, the USA used to be higher ranked and has been in continuous decline for the last 30 years.
Heard a few days ago: When a conservative gets a report they don’t like, they attack the report. When a liberal gets a report they don’t like, they ask what they should do to do better.
I see you are in the former category, at least on this issue?
The ranking systems usually have how socialized is your medical care as a criteria, just look it up. Outside of the bottom hundred or so, infant mortality isn’t that different. When you control for cultural factors, I would say the US is doing surprisingly well. Ability to survive with a disease is where the US excels, as it is just wealthier and will pay for more stuff.
Cheaper, maybe. But quality professionals and equipment can’t exist in such systems (why is my sister, one of top pediatric neurologists in the world working in Houston and not in our country of origin where medicine IS single payer? – not only pay but total inability to get any high tech resources, ever). So, no quality medicine. Discount medicine and doctors.
Single payer system lacks one fundamental part: there is no natural force making the system improve through competition. The thing that drives natural evolution in every system. No competition yields mediocrity at first and than slow death of said system, be it ecosystem, industry or health care. And that is not only for providers. Population in such system lacks incentive to take care of themselves – if there is no risk, there is no care. Until… Again recent example from the country of my origin: when system deteriorates so much that you MUST save for bribe to get any care… Recent survey from there points that average BRIBE for doctor appointment is just about equal to average monthly pay…. More if you want corrupt doctor to even assign you for some high tech test (MRI appointment average bribe: 10 average monthly pays). That is the long term result both monetary and in terms of quality of care.
There are studies showing that of those with private insurance, government provided insurance (i.e. medicare/medicaid), and no insurance, those with government provided insurance have the worst medical outcomes due to lack of availability of treatment because doctors will often not accept those patients because the reimbursement rates are too low to be economically viable. Ironically, those without insurance have better average outcomes because they aren’t turned away from the emergency room.
You bastard. I won’t be able to sleep tonight worrying about those poor poor doctors who can’t make a living if they accept medicaid payment schedules.
After calling myself an expert, you have me stumped. The clear implication of your post is that if you have insurance or medicare that you are turned away from the ER?
Dare I ask for a link??? Or should this all remain in your fevered imagination?
Some years ago I did see a study that showed post ER patients had worse outcomes because of the lack of followup care. Now…. I can imagine people WITH coverage failing to go to the ER thinking they would rather wait and see their regular doc. I can imagine that. Don’t know if it is true.
They can not pay for care sb. cannot. Can not pay suggests that they could choose to not pay. Cannot pay means they couldn’t pay if they wanted to.
Missing word alert: tried to go [to] the emergency room.
nonprofit is one word.
firsthand is one word
Those were facts. Here is an opinion:
You can’t insure health like you can insure a car or a building. Health is not a “thing.” For-profit health insurance cannot possibly work in the interest of society. Nobody in Amerika realizes that yet. But they will in 20 years or so. Perhaps by then we can begin to find the right road. That other countries have already done so will not help us.
My 94-year-old mom doesn’t pay a nickel for Medicare—which is socialized (in the best sense of the word) medicine. Thousands of dollars a year for hospital stays, treatment & ambulance transportation. Is that fair? Not the way it’s set up now.
America doesn’t have a k in it.
A grammar zealot will always make a typ0 when correcting someone else. ‘Tis an unwritten law of the Internetz. I was just followin’ the roolz.
:¬)
There is no I in Team America.
There is no I in eye.
Weird, right?
A friends aunt went to emergency 2 days after a family reunion for pain.. emergency gave her pain pills and sent her home..2 days later she died..
Myself,
In Feb I grabbed an ambulance at 2am for the 10 mile trip for abdominal pain.. I got there they felt around and then gave me a shot for pain..sent me home..
Then 2 months later I called my mother at 3am, drove to emergency, SAME THING..
My doctor did a few tests and suggested a few stomach pills..
Last month…Called mom, went in and they did a FULL DIAGNOSTICS.. They shipped me 30 miles to the MAIN hospital in the area(while under pain meds, nice trip) Next morning they remove my Gallbladder. said it was very bad.
For those that dont know..IN THE OLD DAYS, thee was 5 layers to get an ‘OK’ for medical..Anyone of them could say NO/YES..
When I was working, Medical did not cover Dental/eyes, and STILL cost 20% out of pocket.. I got BETTER CARE being on the streets in Portland then I had working.
PS.
Im a medical anomaly..I was born crippled, 12 years in/out of shiners, 2 types of epilepsy(dormant) and still have all my teeth…
Why get something fixed when it’s relatively minor when you can wait until it’s a life or death emergency and get it fixed for free
It’s the same in the airline industry
Ongoing maintenance is so expensive when the services of the NTSB are free.
You (Uncle Dave) can stop with all the campaigning for Obama now. You obviously don’t know what the coming “Obama Care” LAW even is. I’m sorry your friend had so much difficulty getting her operation. But under Obama’s regime she probably would be DEAD because she would STILL be waiting for that operation! No “probably” about the waiting either.
Sure. Obama did some good things with health care like the pre existing condition exemptions. But if you thought things were bad before you haven’t seen anything yet. And that’s because we still haven’t fully implemented Obama’s new healthcare law. In fact, you probably won’t see much change in healthcare until Obama has left office – likely in 2016! (Probably planned that way to set up the incoming guy – likely a Republican – for failure.)
But I will agree about one thing: Romney is an idiot! He’s flip-flopped more often than Mister Bill “that’s a cool cigar trick that got me IMPEACHED” Clinton. And I’m not likely going to vote for him either. But I’m DEFINITELY not voting for Obama! There’s just something about Obama’s idiocy over economics that I dislike even more!
(I could go on but I’m sure your liberal mind has completely shut down by now. After all, truth hurts when all you “believe” are the lies!)
Fewer doctors providing coverage, with government paying for more coverage, means it’s now harder to get to a doctor, and more going to the emergency room which is now even more understaffed. We were told the purpose of ObamaCare was to avoid the problem of people going to emergency room for lack of coverage. Instead we get more emergency room usage and an insurance mandate that has nothing to do with emergency room usage and everything to do with covering up the flaws in their plan.
Way up there, someone said: “As it currently stands, if you go in for a procedure, the bill is $1000. If you have insurance, the bill is $300 and you pay $60.”
And that my friends is a major chunk of the problem with the current system. If the damned procedure can be done by the same people, in the same place, for $300 instead of $1000, what in the hell is going on?? Does anyone (besides perhaps Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and Mitt Romney) actually pay $1000?
Now, there ARE some doctors who refuse to take insurance, and charge reasonable prices to their patients paying cash. I suppose patients of theirs who DO have insurance could submit the bill as an “out of network” claim and take what they get, and still be better off than the insurance scam.
And, on the topic of emergency rooms, it would be nice if, in addition to the uninsured poor who have no alternative, the insured general public would stop using them for non-emergencies. But, much like the patient who insists on getting an antibiotic when they have a viral infection, it probably won’t be easy!
Gates and Buffett and Romney aren’t paying the $1000. It’s people like Uncle Dave’s friend who get billed the $1000. Anyone who shows up without insurance, that’s the bill you get. Some places will lower the cost for people paying cash, but not all.
I nearly drove off the road laughing when I heard Romney say there should be no bureaucrat between you and your doctor determining your care. This is the clearest evidence yet that Mitt Romney has no grasp of what the rest of us call the real world. You show me a patient, a doctor and a health insurance plan, and I’ll show you oceans of bureaucrats standing between all three.
I pay a couple thousand dollars a year for “hospital”. It’s time everyone pays their way.
Why do Teapublicans want to pursue neardeathcare instead of healthcare ?
UNCLE JOE FOR PRESIDENT—2012!
Hopefully Obama will watch and learn.
Way to GO team Obama.
Call them liars when they open their mouths!!
Ha, ha. Thing of beauty.
Uncle Dave,
She developed a problem with her throat. As it got worse over the years, she eventually tried to go the emergency room to get help, but was turned away because (this is key!) it wasn’t bad for her to get treatment enough even though she was having trouble swallowing. Finally, unable to swallow at all, she was given an operation that cost many thousands, paid for by public funds. The doctor told her if she had been able to be treated early on it would have been a simple, cheap, in the doctor’s office procedure.
So why didn’t your ignorant friend go to a doctor?
mharry===we can all make up why she did or didn’t try to get private medical care. THE POINT of this post is: “Mitt Romney doubled down on his suggestion that uninsured Americans can find the care they need in emergency rooms,…”
Now….. ((FOCUS!!))… if this lady’s situation is at all representative of people without insurance coverage, is Mitt Romney correct or not?
Go!!>>>>>>>>>(Remember to focus?)
>> So why didn’t your ignorant friend go to a doctor?
You ask this like a person who doesn’t pay his own medical bills.
As always Greg, you are too kind. There isn’t a private docs office in the USA that doesn’t make arrangements for payment before the patient is allowed to take a chair in the waiting room.
Many people are shamed by this procedure and won’t spend days, weeks, months to see who might take chickens in payments.
No insurance and no money.
1) Treating high blood pressure is relatively cheap but _is not_ treated in emergency rooms.
2) Having a heart attack is inanely expensive, but _is_ treated in emergency rooms.
Romney prefers option #2.
Don’t ever tell me he’s a fiscal conservative.
High blood pressure is life threatening. You must see your Dr. every three months typically for a check-up.Costly, pets reduce your BP… so get a dog.
Here’s a vid of dogs in a water environment in super slow mo. Watching may will lower your BP.
http://youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7ZIjkvdz4Ko
for SOME OF YOU..that dont understand..
OLD SYTEM had 5 layers any could say NO’ to anything including a doctors visit..
NEW is 2 layers..
OBAMA wanted 1 layer.
A 300 page Care program went to 3000 after congress and reps finished a 2 TIER SYSTEM..
Old system, 5 layers…4 layers then Medicare. the 4 layers was ALL INSURANCE CORPS..NONE OF IT went to medical…
Drugs? DONT EVEN GO THERE..with 5 tiers, and each getting THEIR MONEY you paid 5 times the cost..and STILL paid 20% on top.
DONT listen to the CRAP..ask the OLD FOLKS..ask them if its BETTER.. OR, would you like to live on 1/2 income?? LIKE MOST retired people DO..
Thank you for warning us how evil republicans are.
Democrats are wonderful.
Thank you for you inspiration posting.
So Uncle Dave,
The question remains: why didn’t you help your friend with this inexpensive procedure before it got worse?
I think that Romney’s position is that he has a plan to help everyone . . . but just in case . . . there is the emergency room for worst case scenarios.
It wasn’t until she had the operation that she was told it could have been fixed like that earlier. Early on, she didn’t have insurance and so didn’t go to the doctor for it. When it started getting bad, she went to the emergency room and was told it wasn’t bad enough for them to treat.
FYI, we live in different cities, so it isn’t like I knew everything that was going on.
This is a problem, not understanding the meaning of insurance. Does life insurance pay all your expenses? House insurance pay for all appliance repairs?
Why are people expecting insurance to cover every little expense?
You are right. The problem is health care costs have reached the point where ordinary people can’t afford them. Insurance is the only way they can.
I wouldn’t bother explaining further to those that don’t already understand and/or have gone through it. I can sympathize with your and your friend, I’ve even gone through the same scenarios various times already.
Hell, my last ER visit they “determined” that my condition was not bad enough yet not good enough for me to leave ER so they placed me in a wheel chair, haul my limp body to the hallway and left me there for 3-4 hours. I had no clothes on except my underwear and when I finally had sense and strength enough told the doctors and nurses there at ER to go fuck themselves, sign the release paperwork and treked home, naked, weak and tire, and pissed (1 mile away).
What about suing them? well, that’s what that paperwork is for. What if I don’t sign and sue, well then it’s this and that…and ultimately you’re not going to win.
I fcking so hate Sharp Hospital.
grammar.zealotry.bfd
no hyphen in checkup
nonexistent is one word
preexisting is one word
Something that seems odd to the 96% of humanity which is outside the USA is that anyone who has the slightest claim to being a Christian would even stand on the same platform as people who feel that universal health care is something to be fought and lied against.
Perhaps your Christians are not the same as ours?
I am disgusted by all of the greedy, self-entitled, self-serving politicians that have ever existed.
They immediately seek re-election and that is the source of the problem.
We the people don’t stand a fucking chance, except to do away with the entire corrupt and corruptible structure of elections.
Let holding office be like a 4 year jury duty that you as part of the responsibilities and duties of being a citizen get to do once, and only once.
Throw out the carrion and the carrion feeders.
Healthcare is a priviledge earned, not a basic right. Want good health care coverage? Get an education and a job. Don’t worry folks, it’s almost over now. Few more years and we’ll all be dependent on ourselves to get by. Good luck to all the people who traded independnce and self sufficiency for dependence on a government check. Don’t come to my enclave looking for a free handout.
Now address pre-existing conditions.
Now address the unemployed.
Now address minimum wage slave jobs that don’t come near to the cost of health care or insurance.
Now address how an efficient society is corrupted when it caters to dipwads.
An enclave? Where a community might band together to help one another thrive and survive?
Why aren’t you a rugged individualist, living on your own, answering to and dependent upon no one?
What a communist!
Universal healthcare for all is a right in developed countries that want to call themselves civilised. Where it is not available, that is because rights are being taken from the needy to make the rich richer.
Poor because you were born into it and live in a country that used to pride itself on social mobility bit now prides itself on its financial status instead? You still have a vote to keep the more extreme parties of the rich out of power.
Poor because your parents could not afford to send you to a “good” university and you had to settle for third best? Check which politician gets the most money from the corporations and vote for the other one.
Poor because you have an average IQ and are constantly swindled by clever businesses and smooth talking lawyers? Vote against anyone who wants tax cuts for the rich but wants to cut assistance to those people who are even worse off than you.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/10/12/atf_whistleblower_fired_in_dennys_parking_lot
Most likely illegal but then they are the law.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mother-slain-state-dept-official-tired-being-lied-and-stonewalled-obama-administration_654163.html
I am sorry but there are walk in clinics EVERYWHERE. No excuse to not see a doctor “early”
And if you need surgery there are more and more places like this one
http://surgerycenterok.com/pricing.php
that take no federal money and give you the FULL COST of procedures.
You don’t need to be rich or have insurance to get medical treatment… just care enough to put some effort into maintaining/recapturing your health.
I can imagine you being well motivated with an eye towards your community of man …. but ….. you sure do think everyone else is much like yourself …. whereas REALITY pretty obviously reveals that lots of people are not as financially independent as you and me.
ain’t that a bitch?
Many if not most people are as lacking in money as you are in imagination. Imagine that?====or look it up. What percentage of Americans “live” at or below the poverty level? I’ll wager its more than you think even after you read the bet and adjust.
Stoopid Hooman.
Where is the post factchecking the VP debate? Or do liberals want people to forget all about the Benghazi fiasco so they just don’t talk about it?
Yeah–Rice lied and the Admin is trying to cover it up. Minus One for Obama.
Now address the uniformity of lies about everything else that comprises the Party Formerly Known as Republican Party: Minus 1147
Obviously this is not a problem of privilege or rights. The US easily spends more per capita than any other country in the world and has crappy outcomes no matter what statistic you quote. The US, as a whole, is incompetent.