An Oklahoma County judge is refusing to let men planning sex-change operations switch to feminine names.
District Judge Bill Graves has denied name changes in two such cases so far — last year and again in August. The judge ruled both times the requests were made for a fraudulent purpose…
…Graves wrote…“To grant a name change in this case would be to assist that which is fraudulent…It is notable that Genesis 1:27-28 states: ‘So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth …’ The DNA code shows God meant for them to stay male and female…”
The judge in his 2011 order gave three specific reasons against allowing name changes in transgender cases.
He wrote it could result in someone unwittingly marrying a person “who appeared to be of the opposite sex but was actually of the same sex.”
He wrote it also could hinder crime investigations — causing police officers searching for a male based on DNA evidence to ignore a potential suspect the officers believed was female.
He wrote it also could let someone circumvent the state’s prohibitions against same-sex marriage.
Even the bass-fishing isn’t a good enough reason to live in Oklahoma.
I was gonna call Shenanigans, but noted just in time its Oklahoma…. “♫ Where the winds goes blowing thru the ….. trees?===If it weren’t Oklahoma, I’d look it up. Plains?”
I passed thru Oklahoma as a young man. Best pick up line: “What church do you go to?”
Ha, ha.
Okay. The judge likes to quote Bible verses:
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 22:5
According to the Bible, females in Oklahoma should not wear blue jeans and cowboy boots.
As a matter of fact, females should not be wearing any kind of pants or manly attire.
In addition to that, females should not braid their hair, wear expensive and fancy clothes, or adorn themselves with jewelry:
Women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array.
1 Timothy 2:9
If we are to live by Biblical proclamations, let’s go all the way and bring back slavery:
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Leviticus 25:44-46
Don’t forget, the children of Israel cannot be slaves.
Please take some courses in proper theology before posting…
You are incorrect on attire.
There are many designs, cuts, and fastener types that differ between men and women versions of clothes such as pants. That does not mean that “pants” are specifically a male clothing item.
A bond servant (person, male or female) is NOT a slave.
Research please before posting.
A bond servant is a person who _voluntarily_ goes into service for someone in order to obtain some payment in the future, ie. work for 20 years for a piece of your own land.
Look back to the settling of America, many european children and teenagers became bond servants in order to get boat passage and eventually land in the USA.
Some bond servants even worked for their entire life for a variety of reasons, whether to pay family debts or to obtain something for their family down the road. They were NOT slaves.
Did you even google “bond servant” before posting??
oh i dont know… those judicial robes look pretty darned fem to me….
That’s not what it says, it says the children of slaves shall be the slaves of you children forever.
The word bondservant comes from the Greek word doulos, meaning “one who is subservient to, and entirely at the disposal of, his master; a slave.”
In Roman times, the term bondservant or slave could refer to someone who voluntarily served others.
But it usually referred to one who was held in a permanent position of servitude.
Under Roman law, a bondservant was considered the owner’s personal property. Slaves essentially had no rights and could even be killed with impunity by their owners.
“Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Exectue true judgement, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother; And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart. But they refused to hearken….” Zech 7:9-11
“Therefore thus sayeth the LORD; Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbour: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, sayeth the LORD, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.” Jer 34:17
Don’t forget, Israel was a nation of slaves. Jacob himself was sold down the river into Egypt, into slavery by his older brothers.
For one to mention every instance of Israelites, Judeans and Hebrews being enslaved, it would fill a book.
Oh wait, it did!
Theology supersedes common sense and logic and reasoning.
Any theologist will agree to that.
Even the bass-fishing isn’t a good enough reason to live in Oklahoma.
The bass-fishing in Oklahoma is okay but fishing in the Highland Lakes of Texas is better, especially if you are looking for Stripers.
Oklahoma is no different from any other state. The people go to church and put on a good show for the preacher and then go home and get drunk and beat the wife and kids before they go out and join a good game of poker.
A judge with common sense, even if he is stretching to make his ruling.
Define “common sense” and how it looks with stretch marks.
The problem with common sense is that it is not at all common.
It’s about time the government gets to approve people’s names. I see you agree, comrade.
This avoids all those stupid double first names like John Paul or Paul Ryan or names in reverse like Elton John. Fuck that shit
Hey! middle names are not stupid.
Common stupidity you mean.
Married women no longer take their husband’s name. Or they make up those funky hyphenated names. Or worst of all, they give their children appalling made-up names that the children are too stupid to change when they get older. This has been going on for 25 years. I expect the judge has somehow managed to take this in stride. Now, after all this time, he has a problem with homosexuals who want to be Mary or Sue. Judge, that train left the station a long, long time ago.
Names like Moeisha, Loteicia, Keshawn and on and on. Then again, someone had to think up traditional names once upon a time. I imagine then it was then a scandal too. “Not a traditional name! Stone the parents!”.. Adding “muhammad” to every muslim surname seems soewhat silly too. Can’t display a picture lest it cause worship of a human, but saturating his name everywhere is OK.
Some of those names, while spelled differently, are actually white person names that have gone out of fashion.
Leave religion and PC aside: what in nature defines the sex of the individual. Proper scientific answer is DNA and DNA alone. Not morphology of the body, not the subjective opinion. For humans in particular scientifically based definition can only be presence of Y chromosome: you have it, you are male. Legally this scientific thought process has trivial outcome as well: you are scientifically a male but want to change name and appearance to look like a female – obvious attempt at deception. What’s next, bad check writer who wants name and SSN changed so that he/she is not caught and Court helping along? Same thing.
Legal system and medical profession should get on the side of science: legal system should not allow re-assignment of sex in legal documents just based on self-mutilation choice; medical profession should stop being PC and put people who want to mutilate themselves into involuntary treatment (be it if they are prone cutting themselves randomly, cutting off their ears or their genetic signs of sex), not help them along in their delusions.
Same for people that want liposuction or breast implants?
What about those freaks that want to cut/shave the hair that god/nature gave them?
Sadly, I think we are talking about gender whch is quite another thing.
Proper scientific answer is DNA and DNA alone.
What can be done about hermaphrodites?
Should hermaphrodites be allowed to choose one gender over the other?
What would the judge say if a man wants to marry a hermaphrodite?
Should the judge order a DNA test to determine if the hermaphrodite is more male than female?
This is so wrong that it’s laughable. First, the Y chromosome is almost entirely junk DNA. The only gene that does anything on it is the SRY gene, which tells the gonads to become testicles instead of ovaries (nothing else). All other sex-differentiated development is based on the ratio of estrogen and testosterone. Since the ovaries and testicles both produce lots of hormones, and since stuff doesn’t usually go wrong, this distinction isn’t usually notices, but it becomes very important when dealing with transgender people.
Another fact that most people don’t know is that the genitals develop sex characteristics a lot earlier in development than the brain does, and that a fetus will develop into a girl in the absence of testosterone. Thus, if there’s a hormone imbalance during part of development, a fetus could develop the genitals of one sex but the brain of the other. This is how transgender people develop.
To complicate things further, genes mutate. There are some Y chromosomes without the SRY gene, and some X chromosomes that have it. Thus, there are some people who aren’t transgender yet have chromosomes that don’t match their sex; this wouldn’t be detected without a genetic analysis. There are also people who have odd sets of chromosomes, such as XXY.
You might also want to realize that a name change does not change your social security number. You just get a new card with the new name and the same old number you’ve had since birth.
There’s also a lot more to sec reassignment surgery than chopping off the penis and testicles. The tissue is used to craft a vagina. This is advanced cosmetic surgery, not mutilation.
Perhaps one of these days you could stop being an ignorant bigot. Perhaps you could try actually reading science instead of using badly simplified and outdated grade school biology to support your pre-existing bigoted delusions.
This judge should be disbarred, not only for being a bigot, but also for violating the separation of church and state set in the first amendment. If he wants to base judicial rulings on religion, he should move to Iran.
Nice quick review. Probably too basic for you but a short article on the History of DNA and just how complex and virus oreinted and connected we all are.
Can you think of what dna coding exists in all life forums? Answer comes fairly quickly.
aka – Stuff you won’t find in Religious Studies:
http://newscientist.com/article/mg21528826.200-a-brief-history-of-the-human-genome.html
If he wants to base judicial rulings on religion, he should move to Iran.
If he wants to base judicial rulings on religion, he should move to Texas, where the Christian Taliban demands that schools teach Creationism alongside of Evolution.
I am not opposed to teaching both points of view.
The students are quick to notice, once presented with the facts and evidence, that Creationism is total bulllshit.
Deanej, you seem to need some help understanding the first amendment.
And while science tells us this “transgender” is a mutation, he is quite clearly a male mutation, regardless of how many appendages are removed or how much makeup or skirts are applied.
Noticing the down time on the site today, I assume you are fixing it so that New Format doesn’t Suck anymore?
Good luck with that.
I’ll go for “Sucks Less.”
Hey!–Good name for a girl? ….. for protective parents?
You mean the layout or the commenter?
http://instantrimshot.com/
=)
Yea, verily!
I fear the New Format will always suck on this forum. The light bulb has to want to change…. you know?
And Amram took him Jochebed his father’s sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
Exodus 6:20
Amram married his Aunt Jochebed, and produced Moses and Aaron, who were the products of an incestuous marriage, according to the Bible.
God must be okay with incestuous relationships.
Let’s make it legal for men to marry their Aunt.
Thanks to Oklahoma for making sure that Alabama is not the dumbest state in the country. The people of Alabama sincerely thank you for electing religious idiots.
Obviously if God injects his DNA into a man then God “bats for the other team”, “puts from the rough”, “is light on his loafers”, “goes up the down staircase”,…
Why Can’t I Own a Canadian?
October 2002
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to
people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an
observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to
Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The
following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast
resident, which was posted on the Internet. It’s funny, as well as
informative:
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I
have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the
homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus
18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need
some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws
and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for
her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how
do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend
of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill
him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.
I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of
two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to
curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the
trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? –
Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family
affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you
can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal
and unchanging.
Your devoted fan,
Jim
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show.
People who call up a religious nutball for advice over the radio are no different from people who write Dear Abby in the newspaper to discuss personal affairs in a public forum.
These people want their 5 minutes of fame, like Honey Boo Boo.
The audience gets to laugh at the freak show and feel good about themselves because they are normal and everyone is entertained while “Dr. Schlessinger” makes off with a pile of advertiser money so she can feel good about taking advantage of freaks that can’t think for themselves.
It is a great big circle jerk like the Rush Limburger show and Glenn Beck and all the rest of the narcissistic personalities that practice mental masturbation in public for our entertainment.
God decides gender but he didn’t say it must not be changed.
God gives you diseases but he didn’t say they must not be cured.
IMHO God should be the enforcer for his rules, we should be the enforcer of the rules of the man.
God decides gender but he didn’t say it must not be changed.
God does not decide anything. Random forces of nature occur and shit happens. Sometimes weird shit happens.
God gives you diseases but he didn’t say they must not be cured.
A loving and just God gives people diseases? Really? Does He flip a coin to decide who gets what disease?
IMHO God should be the enforcer for his rules
God did not make any rules. The prophets and preachers that claim to speak for God make up the rules out of thin air and expect us to be gullible enough to swallow their bullshit.
God has never said a single word in all of human history.
Everything we know about God comes from a prophet or preacher that claims to know something that we are not allowed to hear directly from the lips of God.
If it sounds like a scam, maybe you need to think about it a little bit and demand more proof from the prophets and preachers.
Personally, I am skeptical of secondhand information. If God wants me to know something, I am sure He will write something on my wall or find an effective means of communication other than Pat Robertson.
You totally missed the point of my post, unless you’re trolling.
In that case, nice try.
Truly said. Orchi’s not trolling though. In his youthful zeal, he just is taking things at first impression and is just reading the words in isolation rather than the entire post for its meaning.
But humor, especially sarcasm can be hard to transmit in short writings. Not this particular post……but, you know.
Orchi–pros and cons to all we do. Everything is connected, everything contains its opposite. Before disagreeing with a post, think about how you could agree with it. Then balance and compare.
What is being said.
What is meant?
Its how you rise above your opponents and learn your deepest values.
Try it. Maybe in the future, people will copy and paste what you write?
“Why Can’t I Own a Canadian?
October 2002
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality”
Isn’t she the one who had the nude pictures of her hairy bush show up on the Internet? I have them around someplace. I keep them for a good laugh at hypocrisy.
Dr. Laura helps people that cannot think for themselves.
She earns tons of money from the stupidity of others.
Like Rush Limburger, Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, et al ad nauseum.
Everyone should change their name to Ectosqueeble Blortschnorgler III.