Angela Yartz with debt collection notices from a district attorney.
She bounced a $47.95 check to Walmart
The letters are sent by the thousands to people across the country who have written bad checks, threatening them with jail if they do not pay up.
They bear the seal and signature of the local district attorney’s office. But there is a catch: the letters are from debt-collection companies, which the prosecutors allow to use their letterhead. In return, the companies try to collect not only the unpaid check, but also high fees from debtors for a class on budgeting and financial responsibility, some of which goes back to the district attorneys’ offices…
Consumer lawyers have challenged the debt collectors in courts across the United States, claiming that they lack the authority to threaten prosecution or to ask for fees for classes when no district attorney has reviewed the facts of the cases. The district attorneys are essentially renting out their stationery, the lawyers say, allowing the companies to give the impression that failure to respond could lead to charges, when it rarely does…
The partnerships have proliferated from Los Angeles to Baltimore to Detroit, according to the National District Attorneys Association, as the stagnant economy leaves city and state officials grappling with budget shortfalls. Lawyers for the check writers estimate that more than 1 million of them are targeted a year. The two main debt collectors — California-based CorrectiveSolutions and BounceBack of Missouri — return millions of dollars each year to retailers including Safeway, Target and Walmart…
Because the cases are not fully investigated, there is no way of knowing whether the bad checks were the result of innocent mistakes or intentional fraud. The so-called bad check diversion programs start from the position that a crime has been committed.
Where’s Charles Dickens when you need him?
Nobody should even accept checks anymore. They are an antiquated payment system that needs to go away. It needs to go the way of the “bank draft”. (Take a bank draft to the bank and see if anyone even knows how to process one. They don’t, and yet some businesses, mostly Oil and Gas leasing companies, still pay with drafts.)
I programmed for a software company in the 90s that sold checking and remittance software systems to banks and big retailers. Checking was dying then, and I hoped would die completely very soon. At that time, consumer checking was pretty much relegated to the US and Canada. We sold some check systems to China, but those were mostly commercial accounts, and also to India. “We” terminated that line of products in the 2000s, as ATMs and electronic payments flourished across Europe and seemingly gained a foothold in the US.
Europe and the rest of the world uses electronic payments. Its time the US drops this 19th century payment method. It has too much margin for error, fraud and abuse.
You have a very narrow scope of how business is conducted. You’ve taken your experience and expanded outside of its scope of exposure. I thought only naive & dumb people did that?
I use an old fashion check every month to pay for rent. Some places allow use of electronic payments, but I would have to pay a “convenience” fee. Using a check has never been a problem. Also, not every business wants to squander or share their profits with Visa or MasterCard.
Eventually, in that name of national security and “to help us”, the government will require all citizens to use only economic transactions so they can fully track, tax, deny and target groups & people.
Also, not every business wants to squander or share their profits with Visa or MasterCard.
The banks are behind the push to get rid of paper checks that require processing and storage.
The credit card companies also have an economic incentive to help the banks get rid of paper checks.
The Federal Government would also like to see all transactions conducted electronically, so that they are not required to print as much fiat currency to put into circulation.
The only way to fight that is to keep using paper checks and carry cash for small transactions.
I use an old fashion check every month to pay for rent. Some places allow use of electronic payments, but I would have to pay a “convenience” fee.
The popularity of any payment option depends purely on its cost.
Having to pay a convenience fee is for early adopters.
Later, when the bank gets enough money or when there is some over riding security concern (which is more a reflection of how successful crooks have become in defeating the existing technology,) the convenience fee will be applied to something else and the convenience fee may, and I say may, be reduced.
Banks really didn’t care about tracking and the like because nobody had suggested to them the idea of mining their customers transaction data might be a considerable source of profit.
The recent issue that Leo Laporte had with BoA shows that this is no longer the case.
BoAs problem is that this strategy was implemented by a bunch of idiot banksters who couldn’t be able to sell water in the Sahara.
If there was a transaction for tractors, they would sell an ad for tractors, to John Deere, not being intelligent enough to realize that if there already was a transaction for a tractor a farmer doesn’t need another one.
Likewise, they would go through transactions for restaurants and if they found any, say Chez Panisse, they would include a printable coupon for any old restaurant, say Burger King. (People who eat at Chez Panisse are probably queasy at the mere thought of pink slime. Hell, I’m queasy an the thought of pink slime…)
Hence Mr Laporte’s dissatisfaction with the approach the bank took.
When the F**K did you people get brainwashed into paying by credit card?! Regardless how it’s set up, if it says “Visa” or “Master Card” then it’s a credit card! You may actually have an extra brain cell if you use a real debit card, but that’s not really saying much either. So when I see crap like “convenience fee” that should be your FIRST CLUE!
If whoever you do business with won’t accept a check or worse – won’t accept cash, then you seriously need to reconsider doing business with them because they are IDIOTS!
So keep living life as a lemming and run up that debt with your plastic money. Sooner or later your fate will be the same! (Over the cliff you go; for those too stupid to connect the dots.)
First, if it says “Visa” or “MasterCard” it isn’t necessarily a credit card, it could be a debit card. There is a big difference. If you use a debit card, you don’t “have an extra brain cell”, you are missing brain cells. Debit cards are dangerous! When your debit card is used it gives the ability to remove money directly from your bank account with no legal recourse if more money is removed than you thought you authorized. Also, if the card is stolen (or copied by swipe) the thief can empty your bank account and you are liable. Debit cards are not protected by the laws that protect against unauthorized charges on credit cards. If someone overcharges your credit card or it is stolen there are legal limits to your liability that protect you. If you have a debit card issued by a mega-bank (e.g. Bank of America) then get rid of it since they have historically left people out in the cold when thefts happen. Some local banks and credit unions will put money back into the account, at least until they verify it is a theft, but aren’t legally required to do so.
Debit card use is the way to go. Use it for on-line bill payments as well as for purchases. There are still some holdouts that do not provide for one time on line bill payment but will set up for automatic monthly bill payments. I don’t use that processess as I want a paper bill in the mail so that when I die, someone will know that a payment is due.
” Government is coming to your aid”
Are you fucking serious?! Government comes to the “aid” of people who were screwed by government (last time I checked, the DA was government) and we’re supposed to be grateful? How about stripping government DAs of a lot of that power so things like this never happen? Nah…that might actually work and less people will have their money taken from them and told what to do at the barrel of a gun.
This is a strange turn of events, and unfortunate …
Just a reminder to those that claim business is always to blame:
Government is force.
Business is to blame. Government just does the bidding of big business. I love hearing people complain about the government when they are unwilling to look behind the curtain and see who is pulling the strings.
I have no faith in the USA anymore.
ok something is fishy in this story…
most businesses can process a check just like a credit card/debit card.. the check goes into the reader, the account information is accessed and the amount for the purchase is checked against the balance of the account. the cashier will actually hand your check back to ya as the check was validated electronically.. would be interesting to know how major retailers get bad checks passed to them that would need this from local da’s… something is amiss with this story…
Sometimes the network is down, or the balance information is not available. Ever log into your bank’s website and they told you that your balance wasn’t available at that time? (Often happens when they are running end-of-day balances).
In those cases, as a courtesy for the customer, and so the retailer doesn’t lose a sale, small checks like for $47.95 will be accepted without an OK.
This is about a very narrow issue: don’t write bad checks. Its fraud. close to but different than simply being a debtor. The claim of “mistake” is quickly remedied by writing another check that is good….. so I agree, most bad checks that get as far as a letter using the DA’s letterhead are about fraud.
Fun to see the technology advance in these areas. How long before no more cash, no more checks but you need an Iphone? Unintended consequence: you will need an Iphone to vote.
The future is so bright, you don’t need sunglasses, just tape two Iphones over your eyes and let the cameras transmit electromagnetic wavelengths of your choosing.
She’ll never be able to write another check to Wally World… In fact she probably black listed from write checks anywhere else. Wally Word will make it so!
Wait a sec… Wally Word scans checks and gives them back to you… FAKE STORY ALERT!!! BS ALERT!!! FAKE STORY ALERT!!! BS ALERT!!! FAKE STORY ALERT!!! BS ALERT!!! FAKE STORY ALERT!!! BS ALERT!!! FAKE STORY ALERT!!! BS ALERT!!! FAKE STORY ALERT!!! BS ALERT!!!
The story does seem a little fishy upon closer examination of the facts.
Good catch.
Critical thinking is helpful.
In my county, passing a bad check is a criminal offense. The local DA has a program that encourages businesses who are handed rubber checks to bring them to the DA’s office for prosecution.
The article talks about having to prove intent for a criminal conviction. BS. A bad check is a a bad check. Unless you make it good, or come to terms with the merchant, then it is fraud.
Unless you make it good, or come to terms with the merchant, then it is fraud.
Unless the bank made a mistake, which happens frequently.
There is also the issue of a deposit that is returned in the case of a bad payroll check, for example, that is not the fault of the check writer.
There are a number of reasons why a bounced check would not be fraudulent.
Assuming guilt without an investigation or a finding of facts is the main point of this topic.
Oh goody. the legal system is supporting extroversion. Our Attorney General is doing what about this? Taking a nap nap?
I think you meant to say extortion, not extroversion.
Absolootely.
In Florida all you have to do is go to the local sheriff office with a rubber check and they will go and pick him/her up.
The main point of this topic is that debt collection agencies are posing as the government and then collecting fees for the privilege.
Because the cases are not fully investigated, there is no way of knowing whether the bad checks were the result of innocent mistakes or intentional fraud. The so-called bad check diversion programs start from the position that a crime has been committed.
Banks do make mistakes that are not the fault of the check writer.
Most retailers have check verification services that guarantee the check if it bounces regardless of the cause.
When a bad check returns to the retailer the bank charges the retailer a fee, after charging the check writer an overdraft fee.
The bank makes money on both ends of the bad transaction.
Then the check writer is hit again with fees from the collection agency that misrepresents itself as a government entity.
All of the problems could have been caused by a bank error in the first place, so the hapless check writer is left with no recourse except to hire a greedy lawyer to defend themselves.
Then come the lawyer fees so that the check writer may prove they are innocent of any wrongdoing.
I forgot to mention that Wal-Mart treats a check transaction the same as a debit card transaction.
The check is processed, endorsed, and cancelled at the cash register and handed back to the check writer.
I don’t know how Wal-Mart would bounce a check if it is no longer in their possession, and the transaction has already been approved by the bank.
Unless there are Wal-Mart stores that do not have the instant check verification system, which is not likely.
That’s why this is a bogus story.
Seems to be so.
Sorry, but the story is not bogus. Many jurisdictions across the country allow for the local prosecutors to ‘farm out’ the collection of bad checks. Writing bad checks is a form of larceny in most states but the prosecution is time consuming. Some states (not all) allow for prosecutors to use outside agents to collect the moneys due. Also, not all prosecutors like or agree with this practice and so it’s use varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction .
It’s not quite that straightforward.
google Check21
Wal-Mart uses the Point of Purchase method of clearing checks, as noted below, which is no different from using a debit card.
Check 21 legislation is not relevant to this topic.
In addition to remote deposit, other such electronic depositing options are available to qualifying bank customers through NACHA-The Electronic Payments Association.
These options include “Point of Purchase Entry” (POP) and “Back Office Conversion Entry” (BOC) for retailers, and “Accounts Receivable Entry” (ARC) for high volume remittance receivers.
These transactions are not covered under the Check 21 legislation, but rather are electronic conversions of the checks’ MICR data into an ACH (Automated Clearing House) debit.
Thank you for the update.
I spent ten years as a programmer analyst in the finance industry, writing software for electronic payments, check21, atm, credit card terminals, and so on. If you live in the US there is a fair chance that you have used a device with my software in it.
I’m not an expert on how walmart processes transactions but I know quite a bit about the industry.
Well, it doesn’t say how long ago she wrote the bogus check to Wal-Mart. The electronic processing of checks is a relatively new thing, implemented in the past 10 years.
It probably also depends on the Wal-Mart in question. The first place I ever encountered this nonsense with a check was at my doctor’s office, about 6-7 years ago. The reason for writing them a check was for the proper record of the transaction, which as far as I’m concerned, I don’t get unless the check is run through normal channels. So, I now pay my co-pays in cash and get a real receipt. Funny that if I get a bill in the mail from the same office, and mail in a check, it goes through the bank just like the olden days.
But, I don’t write many checks these days. I DO write one for the rent, and at Costco because they piss me off by not taking any credit cards except American Express. My 13 years in banking operations taught me not to deal with AE, if at all possible.
We Are The Borg. You Will Be Assimilated. Resistance is futile.
Not while I have anything to say about it.
We Are The Bank. You Will Be … <BLAM>
People are starting to get poor and the banking world is finding it less profitable with them. (That explains all the data mining the banksters are starting to do to their own depositors. [Unfortunately, they don’t realize that you have to exploit potential future relationships, not recent purchases.])
People are starting to get less patient too.
Appalling.
This does sound fishy, Walmart doesn’t accept checks as a payment method. And as everybody else noted if they did, it would be done electronically.
Why does she look proud in the photo?
Bottom line is she bought something without having the money to pay for it. Now she’s trying to turn lemon’s into lemonaide by making a thrid party look like the bad guys….
The Alameda DA wh-0-0re’s name 1s r1ght 0n t0p 0f the letterhead, Nancy 0’Malley.
Str1ke back aga1nst her and all 0ther sew@ge DAs and judges wh0 all0w th1s farce.
Hyp0thet1cal: Let her keyed Lexus, 2AM-smashed mans10n w1nd0ws, etc. help her “re-f0cus.” Such pr0tected SCUM-1N-0FF1CE needs phys1cal rem1nders, because they have n0 fear.