Given the dissatisfaction with Obama in the country, why does Ryan and others mentioned in the article think they have to lie to win? Shouldn’t telling the truth be enough?
Laying out the first plans for his party’s presidential ticket, GOP vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan took some factual shortcuts Wednesday night when he attacked President Barack Obama’s policies on Medicare, the economic stimulus and the budget deficit.
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Fact check judging results in :
Ryan has the world record for # of lies in a single speech. A Gold medalist!
This one from a left wing media , FOX.
http://foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/#ixzz251rvLkSe
Who fact-checks the fact checkers? This is a BS story, and even reading it, you can see they are making campaign arguments rather than pointing out errors. We saw this with PolitiFact who countered Romney’s statement that Obama robbed Medicare to pay for ObamaCare with the idea that Obama didn’t literally take a gun and stick up Medicare.
The welfare argument is weakest of all. Obama is looking to waive work requirements he is not authorized to do under law. Mickey Kaus has said this. Robert Rector has said this. Even liberals at Brookings who are experts on the law have said this, though they support the waivers.
Somehow, because Ryan’s early budget took Medicare cuts and used them to shore up Medicare finances, that makes it a lie that Obama used Medicare cuts to finance ObamaCare?
Although roundabout and squirmy, the important thing is you agree Ryan is a fucking liar.
You are a fucking asshole.
What a potty mouth!
Wash that gingiva!
So we have a fucking liar running against a fucking liar….aren’t we so very lucky.
From RedState:
There was a GM plant in Janesville. Barack Obama did make a speech there in 2008. He did, in that speech, make those comments*. And the plant did not “last another year” – despite, I should note, the Obama administration’s bailout of GM that the administration is kind-of, sort-of touting as an ‘achievement.’ These are all true things; which has not kept the Left from screaming otherwise, to the point where the Obama campaign has officially (and in my opinion, unwisely) called Paul Ryan a liar.
… The liberals who were not aware of the details originally are displaying what is frankly an appalling level of ignorance about… The President’s embarrassingly bad track record when it comes to his promises? The state of America, outside of the Leftist Pale that is the Beltway? Paul Ryan’s rhetorical history? –…
And that leads to the liberals who were aware of the details originally: those folks are being pretty appalling, all on their own. There’s a certain level of ignorance here, as well – but there’s rather more mendacity. You see, unlike the Leftist blogs and websites and rank-and-file membership, the people running the Democratic party actually know what is going on with the world today. They can’t help but know about it; after all, they’re almost exclusively responsible for the state of affairs which has made this economic recovery the weakest one within most people’s memory.
And yet, instead of simply gritting their teeth and taking the hit, the Democratic Establishment is trying to incite its base by calling something true a lie. Which to me suggests that the Left – specifically, the Obama for America team – is simultaneously utterly contemptuous of its own base’s ability to reason, and quietly terrified that said base might eventually wise up to the fact that it’s being taken for the Mother Of All Rides. That these two attitudes are subtly contradictory should be no surprise: to mangle Lewis Carroll, the Left has long been accustomed to believing six impossible things before breakfast.
Moe Lane (crosspost)
*Read the whole speech; it’s a hoot. Especially the part where Obama slams Clinton for supporting the war and wanting a health care mandate. Oops?
They are all lying.
Mittenz is talking out his ass and plans to give us an insincere apology, not health care. (The 1%er millionnaires want to hang on every dime they can squeeze from us.)
O’Mama is doing this all wrong and the structural problem with health-don’t-care is not being addressed so that the death spiral of patients will not even be slowed.
Ryan has had many budget plans and all lack specificity. It is frankly impossible for anyone to say what bill a Romney might favor or that could get through Congress, even a fully Republican one. So far all Ryan’s plan do nothing to decrease the deficit and
because of his tax cut.
Ryan is a politician fully involved in the Washington scene but Romney is a financier and a politician. Truth should not be expected from this group but one would have hoped that they could hide the lies better.
The GOP could not even bear to mention GW, his two unfunded wars, his unfunded drug plan, and being on watch when the second and fatal attack on the WTC happened. Even Jimmy Carter created more jobs in 4 years than GW did in 8 years.
The GOP gave us a dry drunk for 8 years. I will pass on voting for their plutocrat this time around.
Romney’s 59-point plan as enumerated on his web site also lacks any specifics.
Rhetoric is simply rhetoric, and nothing more.
1. Can a politician fail to keep promises and not be a liar?
2. Do you like politicians that make excuses?
3. If it’s game four, you’re losing, and your team has yet to win in the series, would you still leave the same pitcher on the mound?
Please explain any “Yes” answers.
Ryan points out that Obama doesn’t keep his promises, but loves to make them. Somehow that makes him a liar, because a plant that Obama would stay open for a hundred years was instead suspended a year ahead of schedule. Oh, and what happened to Obama’s promise to pass a windfall profits tax on oil companies, and deliver every family a $1000 rebate check on gas?
Factcheckers like factcheck.org and Politifact know their role isn’t to evaluate facts, but to provide cover for liberals who want to label Republicans as liars. In fact many times, the argument for the lie on the fact-check websites is to point at statements by liberals, or networks articles that refer to statements by liberals as their evidence. Then the liberals can point to those articles quoting them as proof that the opponent is lying.
NFS–you don’t need a third party to tell you. If you can’t tell the Pukes lie about just about everything, way more than the dumbos do, then you are just a dumb shit or perhaps a liar or a shill yourself.
Its plain to see—all you have to do is LOOK!!!
You can disagree with Obama and dumbo/liberal political goals and yes they do often hedge the truth or manipulate or even lie to achieve their goals BUT MOSTLY what the Pukes don’t like are the goals themselves. Contra is the Pukes who lie about everything AND their goals which are not supported by the majority of voters===THATS WHY THEY LIE.
Again–use your own brain, don’t get Alfie Stupid and think that an outright lie is balanced by a fudge, and just look for yourself: Should Super Rich get tax breaks to pay less percentage of their income in taxes while you and me pay more in taxes and get less in services from the government?
I value your brand of freedom/servitude in wage slavery to the Rich as a fool’s gruel.
Wise up stupid before all your supports are stripped away and you find yourself in a stockade with Liberty Lover.
Okay let’s see. He said that Obama care took 416 billion out of medicare and that’s a lie because of what? Nothing in the article about how Ryan would have dealt with the situation after the event changes the fact that Obama care made those cuts.
Ryan is trying to hold on to medicare as such for those 55 and above and reduce what was promised for those under 55 because the money isn’t there. Obama care has built in cuts to medicare that would have already kicked in if Obama hadn’t repurposed 600,000,0000 meant for some sort of experimental medical program with more cuts to come. That’s a simple fact and anyone bothering to look for themselves will quickly find that’s the way this honey cart rolls. (honey caret =wagon loaded with dung)
They did save money by cutting what Doctors get paid for medicare patient visits but they have been annually throwing in enough money for that not to kick in because Doctors can’t afford to take medicare patients if what they get paid is knocked down that low.
Of course Romney seems to favor putting the money back but then you have to get rid of Obama care first because the spending in it is based on counting the same money several times and is a total freaking nightmare. I still haven’t figured out if crazy Nancy P. who has visitations from the dead was thinking the tooth fairy was going to pay for this or if the people stilling paying fed gov taxes should have their taxes raised to 90% or more. It just isn’t clear.
Of course the rate Doctors get paid for medicaid patients is so low many medical professionals make it clear they won’t take them so the entire program may end up being a lot cheaper than expected other than growing the Fed. Gov. hugely.
Ryan admitted that his staff forwarded two letters that should have been handled as requests for attention as requests for stimulus funds. Since the Fed. Gov. was throwing money at anyone willing to take money at the time including some groups outside the US I’m not all that lathered up about Ryan’s staff getting a couple of their locals on the free largess list. The effort needed to do so seems to have been absolutely minimal.
I didn’t read the rest of the article because this is a total spin piece and complete propaganda most likely directed at the abysmally ignorant or blindly partisan. I have an Uncle that would go for it. He’s a great guy but he’s so partisan he’d vote for Lucifer if the guy ran on the Democrat ticket.
http://humanevents.com/2012/08/30/lie-truths-that-democrats-dont-like/
For once a link?—Good Job. Let’s see what the puke talking points are:
The following assertions, for instance, are true:
* Obama did cut over $700 billion from Medicare to fund Obamacare. /// Cuts were all on the provider side leaving the benefits to you and me the same. As the money went to Obamacare–HEALTHCARE ACTUALLY EXPANDED. Just what you and me should want if you aren’t a retard.
* The stimulus was a case of political patronage, corporate welfare and cronyism. // Yes, made worse because it was held hostage by the Pukes and made worse in these things than it could have been before the PUKES PASSED THIS BILL—and partook of its benefits as well. Pure HYPOCRISY on the Pukes is demonstrated here===including Liar Ryan.
* The Janesville, General Motors plant was closed down under Obama (though Ryan made a more nuanced assertion that we’ll cover below) /// I don’t know this issue but so what? One plant vs the entire industry. Don’t be stupid.
* Obama did blow off the bipartisan debt commission. /// Again, don’t know the details. Hazy memory was that it was the Pukes not agreeing to any compromise at all taking the country to the cliff shortly thereafter resulting in our credit rating decline==all the Pukes intentional doing putting their politics above the interests of Country.
* Obama’s waivers do allow for the relaxing of work requirements in welfare reform. /// Yes–AS REQUESTED BY THE PUKE GOVENORS all for the purpose of ultimately getting more people a job===eg–receive welfare while going to school to gain job skills==as REQUESTED by govenors.
What a total idiot you are. Still head and shoulders above most puke voters but you seem to believe whatever obvious lie is fed to you.
Alfie stupid.
Obama didnt blow off the “bi partisan debt commission.” The Simpson-Bowles debt commision never issued a formal report – in part because Ryan and his cronies kept voting down any revenue increases.
Politicians don’t lie!!!
May I direct your attention to the old joke:
“How can you tell a politician is lying?”
.
.
.
…wait for it…
.
.
.
.
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“His lips are moving.”
Quiz Master showing Deep Blue could win on battery power alone says:
8/30/2012 at 9:10 am
1. Can a politician fail to keep promises and not be a liar?/ Yes–the Pukes can mount more filibusters than ever before taking the context way out of normal expectations.
2. Do you like politicians that make excuses? /// Depends on the issue and the excuse and the facts of the matter.
3. If it’s game four, you’re losing, and your team has yet to win in the series, would you still leave the same pitcher on the mound? /// It would depend on those pesky facts. What if my pitcher has pitched nothing but one single hit per game?
Please explain any “Yes” answers. /// There ya go.
From PolitiFact:
“Now, to address the word “robbed.” We know the civility is at a low ebb these days, but we think it’s worth pointing out that the money was not robbed in any literal sense of the word.
Congress passed the law through its normal process, and the proposal was debated out in the open during the many weeks that the final law was being negotiated.”
Note that 2022’s cut is $200 billion more than the cut in 2012, which PolitiFact doesn’t see the need to spell out, but is obvious from their explanation of why the number changed from 507 billion to 716 billion.
PolitiFact rates Obama’s lie about RomneyRyan plan would cut seniors Medicare by $6400 a year as mostly true, by referring to Romney’s statement of support for the Ryan plan, and Ryan’s Roadmap from last year. Yet Ryan’s new plan, cosponsored by Ron Wyden a Democrat, does not have the same structure, and Romney’s budget is different from that as well. So they have to go two levels removed to get their mostly true claim, while labelling Romney’s and Ryan’s claims as mostly false based on handwaving by Democrats.
Next up for the fact-checkers,
Ryan said Obama is a ship sailing on yesterday’s wind.
Rated Mostly False, as Obama is a human being not a ship, and yesterday was very windy.
Ryan said that people in their 20s are living in their childhood bedrooms looking up at fading Obama posters.
Rated Pants on Fire, as people in their 20s haven’t spent the whole 20s with their parents, it is not known how many have Obama posters, and the posters were made with special paint that wouldn’t fade in 4 years. Plus, many people were foreclosed, so they would not be in the same bedroom as before.
NFS–3 posts in a row all steadily declining into irrelevancy and private demons?
Ha. Ha.
Yes, I think I hit 4 a while back, but of course I was build a theme, not lip drooling and babbling like yourself.
Why don’t you post one “idea” OF YOUR OWN that you find persuasive on whatever you think is important?
I’ll demonstrate: trickle down economics by providing tax breaks for the rich have been shown NOT to provide a job stimulus. This is now being advocated again (talk about sailing on yesterdays wind!) when tax rates are at the lowest levels in what–80 years?
Then–should the RICH really be paying lower tax rates than the middle class?==Why?
If you just address something rational, you might have your political cherry popped.
Related–a humor piece on how to decode Puke Speak. Sadly, there is too much truth to it:
http://sfweekly.com/2012-08-22/news/republican-party-gop-politics-language-codes/
Ha! All my favorites are grouped together:
Christian: GOP delegate who’s devoted his life to Jesus, handguns, and repealing the Clean Water Act. Will be doing missionary work at Tampa gentlemen’s clubs next week. At least, that’s what he’ll tell his wife when the MasterCard bill arrives.
Christian Persecution: When the school board bars a teacher from conducting faith healing sessions in his seventh grade biology class.
Class Warfare: Indefensible act of pitting America against the wealthy; perfectly reasonable when mocking moms on welfare.
College: American Maoist reeducation camp, where liberal professors encourage impressionable youth to enjoy critical thinking, Jäger shots, and recreational intercourse.
Constitutional Conservatism: Belief that our founding document should be strictly interpreted — even though it was written by guys who wore wigs and culottes, but were definitely not transvestites, since that hadn’t even been invented yet.
Corporation: Most evolved species of mammal. Designated by Supreme Court as the legal equivalent to people, only better, because they can afford to buy congressmen and box seats to the Texas Rangers.
Entitlement Society: Large corporations who demand public subsidies every time they build a facility, move their headquarters, or threaten to relocate to Botswana or Mississippi. Wait. No. Scratch that.
Environment: Convenient place to dump car batteries and kitchen appliances. While lamestream media insists on its preservation, studies by the business faculty at Liberty University business faculty prove that beavers actually like swimming in hydrochloric acid because it improves their skin tone.
Evolution: Fraudulent theory that man evolved from ape. Have you ever seen an ape with jugs like Jessica Simpson’s?
Feminazis: Ingrate women who use the word “Ewwww!” when Rush Limbaugh tries to buy them a Sex on the Beach at hotel bars in Boca Raton.
Food Stamp President: Did we mention that Obama’s a negro? And that he’s probably a Muslim?
I’ll go for 3 myself: another word play article supporting the notion that Romney really is an A-Hole. Just look:
http://npr.org/2012/08/29/160252153/a-linguists-serious-take-on-the-a-word
Alfie==you can’t link to a Puke Disinfo site to give an example of what YOU think. Ha, ha.
Almost makes me think you don’t think for yourself?
I just heard of America 2016 early this morning–a movie by Dinesh Souza already now only second it ticket receipts to Farenheit 451.
I look forward to seeing it when I can. Its not often you get to see the source from which one group of mental defectives take charge and lead red state voters.
Amusing what some will do with the freedom to think====not use it.
The democrats and republicans cannot tell the truth to the American people, nor do they have to. The American people don’t want the truth.
I don’t think thats true. Your central conceit is wrong: that there is “an American Public” as if it were of a single mind. Thats your starting point—democracy is a mob.
The American people (not “public”) are clearly not of a single mind, but the vast majority still don’t want the truth. That’s not the same as saying they all prefer the same set of lies. The Dems are fine with Dem lies and the Repubs are fine with Repub lies.
A good distinction, worthy the pointing out==thanks.
Hmmm…. “the truth.”//Do people “want” to be lied to?
It might be more an issue of “framing” than anything else? But what really can be expected of a population of simians who only have an average IQ of 100? I assume the average IQ of those posting here is 115 or so, less for those who have chosen not to respond to my abuse…….
Ha, ha.
I want the truth.
But I get your point.
“Given the dissatisfaction with Obama in the country, why does Ryan and others mentioned in the article think they have to lie to win? Shouldn’t telling the truth be enough?” /// Because what the Pukes want to do is kill off the working/middle class by a drive to the bottom in wages and and benefits all to benefit the globe hopping SUPER RICH. The Pukes get rich servicing the Super Rich while the Dumbos have the same deal with Unions and Trial Lawyers, and Teachers. Second group just doesn’t have the same amount of untaxed dollars to spend.
Simple really. If they told the truth, they wouldn’t get elected.
Shouldn’t telling the truth be enough?
Right … A politician telling the truth?
They don’t know anything never mind the truth, even when you rub their noses in it.
What kind of a stupid idea is that?
mpod–of course politicians==all of them===tell the truth from time to time.
Silly to go to such extremes. Is Alfie getting to you?
You don’t balance one kind of stupid with another kind of stupid. Use those vast critical thinking skills you have and aim for the truth yourself. Afterall—not all voters are idiots.
politicians==all of them===tell the truth from time to time
Its not their default position.
They’ll only tell you as much as they think they absolutely need to. Its part of their misdirection and bullshit.
Keeping you off balance is a part of Sun Tzu‘s Art of War.
As you claimed: not all voters are idiots therefore politicians are very wary of them.
They have seen what happens when they’re not.
Seems like those are all valid criticisms of Obama. Does Ryan’s complacency in those issues make them any less valid?
American politics are formed from the left over parts of the Doctor Doolittle ‘Pushmi-pullyu’. Our political beast is a ‘Shitmi-shatu’.
Thank you are safe if you use Tor? Read this: http://cryptome.org/2012/08/tor-exits-usg-funds-02.htm
Adam and John aren’t doing their leg work. They are getting soft. Their edge is dull. The government won’t shut them down because they’ve stopped digging and gone soft.
Oh the article on the Apple suit was thought provoking. Why buy Apple when you can get a clone that is better and has added features?
Here is a strong rebuttal and put-down of Uncle Dave’s Democratic talking points about Ryan.
http://forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/08/30/yes-paul-ryan-spoke-the-truth-about-obamas-fiscal-record/
Repeating the initial lie told is not a strong rebuttal.
Obama takes 716 Billion out of payments to providers leaving the benefit package in tact and spends that money on other healthcare benefits thereby exapnding healthcare coverage to seniors.
Ryan takes the same 716 Billion out of payments to providers leaving the benfit package in tact, and then turns the program into a limited life VOUCHER program. Just what you want to do when you reach age 65–take your $8000 Premium Support Check from Ryan and negotiate health coverage with the Insurance Co’s who’s initial package of limited coverage starts at $14000>>>>>>All so that Romney and his friends can pay ZERO income tax on their passive income.
How STOOOOOOPID can you be BJ.
I challenge all you stupid dumb ass pukes to point out how Ryan is not out to cut your throats===and you throw in your balls and the brains for free—which is about the right price.
Alfie stupid you idiots are. LOOK fer Christ sakes. Its right there even in their “defense.”
Cant you READ?
Ryan’s appeal to unemployed college kids living in their childhood bedrooms may not get THEM to vote against Obama… but it sure as hell will get their *pissed-off parents* to vote against Obama.
Food for thought: If Obama is re-elected, just think of the mess he will inherit.
Say BJ–when the Bush Team as follow on to the triangulating clinton Era CRASHED THE ECONOMY==how many years did you think it would take to correct?
Yes–the Mess that will continue in 2013 is simply the carry forward of the Mess created by Bush/Clinton.
If you want the mess to continue to be cleaned up, you vote Obama. If the want a doubling down on everything that created this mess==vote for Romney.
RICH = CRIMINAL.
Easy to see.
Please folks. Keep your comments “pithy”.
My middle finger hurts from excess mouse wheel scrolling (and giving the finger to some of these postings).
Short comment but irrelevant. Name the offending post, why it offends, and what would have made it better.
Otherwise, while short, you are still a waste of space.
Why are you personally attacking this person? You asked for an offensive post, you just made one. Argue ideas, don’t devolve into name calling.
John, evidently not understand the gravity well of an uncensored forum is all about says:
8/30/2012 at 2:25 pm
Why are you personally attacking this person? /// 1. Because SHE gave me the finger? 2. Because her post was too generic and vague so I showed how it could be made better. 3. Its always potentiallyl informing to have a looking glass held up before yourself. 4. More on request?
You asked for an offensive post, /// where? copy and paste please or correct your type, or your brain fart
you just made one. /// Offense in the defense of cogent argument is no vice.
Argue ideas, //// I do always–most pithly in the careful selection of names to call people. How can you miss that?
don’t devolve into name calling. /// F*ck You. There!–No names.
Wow, I am impressed. Are you one of those professional trolls like they talked about on The Newsroom a few weeks back?
And for what it’s worth I could have made the same reply before to Auntie Diatrabe. Telling everyone you’d like to give them the finger is no better than calling someone a waste of space. That does not make either right though.
Are you one of those professional critics paid to watch The NewsRoom?
No I just enjoy the show. I don’t agree with everything they have to say but I respect the fact that the writers and producers are trying to make a difference. Very few people are these days.
You don’t like it? What are your thoughts on The Newsroom?
Ha, ha. Yes==RESPONDING to trash is very different than initiating trash. Its called: “The Rule of Equal Dignity” should you ever decide to replace that doily with some hand made chain mail.
I think I am going to puke.
What did you have for lunch?
Politics *burp*
Oooo. Spit that shit out!!!