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You started out pretty good, then went LEFT..
Many come to the USA to get away from religious persecution..
Religious ideals, from their OWN countries.
There are Very FEW nations that are TOLERANT, and I would not even consider the USA at the top of the list.
Those other nations, are mostly Over crowded with OTHER believers already..
there is a chance of a JOB in the USA.
THE PILGRAMS were not the first group here. NOR the last.
They were a mixed bag of people. And if you want to place a religion on them it was QUAKER/Puritan.. and they have made there OWN groups in this nation. They werent your common Christian. So you cant claim them as your religion, unless yo dont have a computer.
I also Agree that a CHILD should not be forced to Accept anything, before at LEAST their TEEN YEARS if not into their 20’s. This is as bad as the Pledge of allegiance in school.,.You are asking a pledge from a person who has NO CONCEPT of what they are saying..
We don’t let that many people in from countries where there is religious persecution. There are limits that vary from country to country. If you come from a European country it is very easy to get in. If you come from Iraq you might as well try somewhere else.
Far be it for me to lecture Americans on their glorious history of religious tolerance – but the puritans in Boston executed people for being quakers.
I don’t know if Boston has a Mary Dyer day – but it might be worth remembering
Heh – this blog isn’t appropriate for children. What’s your point?
I hope I don’t forget why I’m posting…. but the reason people first came to USA was to exploit the resources and peoples to get rich. That was the Spanish and Portuguese. English and Dutch then came mostly for the purpose of imposing their own minority cult sect religion on their own followers and whoever else they could.
Very base reasons most people ever do anything. Science is another of those 1% activities. Interesting how much small minorities influence/lead/take over the majority. More the rule than the exception.
>>>> but anyhow…..BWAHAHAHAHAH
You don’t need a belief/understanding/acceptance of evolution to be an engineer. Funny he picked that example. For the biological sciences, evolution explains a lot about certain processes/issues but isn’t needed at all for others.
Life is like that. A little ying, a little yang. Pros and cons to all we do even including whether or not you can tell shit from shinola.
Science should be a 100% of the people activity. It applies to everything you do. It is hard to do or talk about something with other people if they don’t share a common dictionary so to speak. Learning to be objective and to not jump to conclusions and to keep an open mind is something we all need more training in before our misunderstandings destroy our society.
Sorry to both,
religion and science..
but the common man, just wants BOTH of them to leave him alone.
religion is a way to see the world and not worry about it..
Its SOMEONE ELSE to blame…Crops failed, GOD DID IT..
Science has pushed to far in some scopes..LEave the FOOD ALONE..
And there are FEW simple ways to explain science to the layman..
AND science is as bad as religion, in all the variances/types/understandings/concepts/….
1/2 of science is Theory.. that couldnt be proven unless you could go back 10,000-1,000,000 years and Built a monolith.
If you gathered all the religious books into a room, it would be as BAD as science..and as confusing.
Good point ECA.
Man is a social creature. Only secondarily whatever you want to list–science or religion.
That being the case, “man” would be happiest living only with others that all totally agreed with one another. In that context, it wouldn’t matter they died from praying to god for help instead of not shitting in their water. They would be happier as being in comfort with their fellow man. slings and arrows just can’t be helped… you know?
When even the brightest mind in our world has been trained up from childhood in a superstition of any kind, it will never be possible for that mind, in its maturity, to examine sincerely, dispassionately, and conscientiously any evidence or any circumstance which shall seem to cast a doubt upon the validity of that superstition.
I doubt if I could do it myself.
— Mark Twain, Is Shakespeare Dead? (1909)
Thankfully, thats not true. Its mostly true and you can put your own high percentage to it. But its not 100% and that is all that frees the human soul.
Bill Nye has lost credibility with regards to science after he started working for Al Gore and promoting global warming.
You have been fooled! Gore and Nye aren’t promoting global warming, they are trying to stop it before it is too late.
Dictators are born from the altruistic belief that people like you shouldn’t vote or breed.
Creationism is fine as long as it’s explained that this is just a fairy tale, and that the world has a true history that is much more interesting than the stories made up by people from several thousand years ago. Actually, the story of Creation is one of the least frightening tales from the Bible. No one is killed, and the Creator doesn’t yet start showing preferential treatment for one group of people to the extreme detriment of others.
Creation is a good enough story for bedtime.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/30/bill-nye-is-the-anti-science-guy-when-it-comes-to-global-warming-and-hurricanes/
Bill Nye gave his seal of approval to a science project that was faked, and in fact wouldn’t explain the science even if it had worked.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/18/replicating-al-gores-climate-101-video-experiment-shows-that-his-high-school-physics-could-never-work-as-advertised/
damn ol’ bill sure got old looking looking fast….
He doesn’t look appropriate for children.
Liberals like to believe their beliefs are backed up by science. Then we find out that Warren Buffett is actually betting against the states and cities that follow Obama policies.
Every life includes elements of the physical (science) and the metaphysical (beliefs). Even people who claim to only be about science practice metaphysical thinking every day. Any time one thinks in terms of ethics, justice or fairness, they are practicing their own brand of metaphysical thinking. Because there is no field of science that can define metaphysical life to a point of being useful, people make the mistake of thinking ethics are somehow “natural” and don’t need to be defined as a form of belief. These people are wrong. As I have said many times before, people who try to criticize religion using science are just as stupid as the people they make fun of for trying to criticize science using religion.
Yea, the non overlapping magisterium argument. When everything that springs from a belief system is proven to be wrong whereas everything that springs from a different belief system is shown to be true, which belief system is more likely right or wrong?
Not Dawkings, and not Shermer==that other new wave Atheist took your position apart. Its thinking only to a point and then failing to follow thru.
Its the very reason science marches on while religion fiddles.
my spaghetti is getting cold
People come to this country for a better life… Most often a better economic life. And in America, we used to that through technology and innovation.
If you ignore evolution, you are ignoring biology, astromy, geology, genetics and a host of other scientific fields. TaxedEnoughDude believes oil is like mana from heaven, created the Gods for our enjoyment. A geologist believes it’s from ancient plant life in swamps and shallow seas. If you were an oil company, who would you want telling you where to dig a well.
I like Bill Nye the science guy. Because I almost always saw him on children’s shows I previously didn’t take him very seriously.
He has a mechanical engineering BS from Cornell University and a honorary doctorate by The Johns Hopkins University. So I am inclined to believe him then the “nattering nabobs” this forum attracts.
I am a person of faith in the deity of Jesus, yet I personally can’t intellectually square all the bible with what I know of science. Yet I don’t dismiss the bible outright. I have a degree in Physics and work as an engineer. Although truth and truth seeking are a fundamentally Christian thing to do, I don’t understand “Christian” who seek truth with out Science. That said the message of Jesus is of love (honest, respectful, faithful, truthful love) with knowledge as it’s support.
I don’t see how true “Science” is in anyway a threat to Christianity. I believe those who see it as a threat, aren’t seriously following Jesus and instead are caught up in today’s media distractions.
I don’t see the Salvation Army condemning evolution or science.
Well said.
Nothing says that God couldn’t have used Evolution in creating humans (not even the Bible.) In fact, it makes God a little more interesting than an old white guy with a long beard sitting on the clouds.
The Catholic church tried to deny the Sun went around the Earth. How well did that work out?
uuuuhhhhh…. could you say that more slowly?
Genesis, Adam and Eve, Noah????
Or do you mean its just a metaphor?
Is that what you mean hyphen?
If that is the case then I can tell you to eat shit and die …… metaphorically. And in this metaphor, sit is your favorite ice cream and die is having all the sex you want from the Cheerleaders of any major sports team of your choice.
See how metaphor works?
Willing words and ideas to mean whatever they want……… Silly Hoomans.
bobbo, the pragmatic “existential evangelical”
Well, I learned a new thing about how metaphorical the existentialism your evangelizing about::
“If that is the case then I can tell you to eat shit and die …… metaphorically. And in this metaphor, shit is your favorite ice cream and die is having all the sex you want from the Cheerleaders of any major sports team of your choice.”
This existentialism you are promoting seems mean-spirited, puerile and vile.
I graduated from one of the largest research institutions in the country. All the foreign nationals were studying science, engineering, medicine.
None were studying education, history, theology. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
The 10 % of my town that “immigrated” to the US from Mexico did it because the Catholic church was forcing them to read the that BS in Genesis. Right. (Sarcasm)
People come here to get ahead, not worship. Most retain their faith when they come here. I have not heard of too many moving to the US to practice their faith in the open. Faith is about community. Ask those on the Gaza Strip.
Just for fun, I have thought I should have raised a kiddie with some wildly incorrect information and then, AND THEN, on his 18th birthday tell him all about it.
Reason: to have a sound basis to question anything he believes.
How to Resolve?: Science or religion. Ha, ha.
Nothing dramatic, more like the Smurfs really exist in a colony on the moon. How long could such indoctrination last? Would Mark Twain be shown to be correct?
I don’t think so.
Let’s all listen to a guy that looks more like a kid toucher than Sandusky.
Comment on his words, not his looks jackass.
Judging by looks is the most important thing we can do in the USA today. No one cares about what the content is, it is looks.
I haven’t had a chance to listen to this but I disagree with Alphie’s viewpoint.
I am new here and everyone keeps talking about Alphie. WHO IS ALPHIE?
“Taxed Enough Already” use to go by that moniker.
Alfie got all pissy because he lost so many arguments due to his lame-ass viewpoints. He announced he was leaving us for good but no sooner than Alfie had been gone about a month that “Taxed Enough Already” showed up with the same lame-ass talking points fed to him by Fox News or Jeebus. We are all glad he is back to add comic relief. An easy target if you will.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/18/replicating-al-gores-climate-101-video-experiment-shows-that-his-high-school-physics-could-never-work-as-advertised/
I’d like to see Bill Nye apologize for thsi before anyone takes him seriously again.
Hey NFS–whats yer point? No body cares about Al Gore, even fewer about Bill Nye … or can you function outside of a “real” straw man argument?
Maybe this will clarify: because there is junk science/fraud/snake oil around cancer cures is there any doubt in your mind that cancer exists?
Same thing.
Really.
Same thing. Think better. It improves what you post in a blog. Very un-Alfie behavior.
Saw this somewhere and thought it could bare repeating:
I’d like to point out how irrational it is to have any reverence for religion at all. We look at ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing lightning bolts and say, ‘Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So primitive and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes talking to people and guys walking on water. We’re …sophisticated.’ – Paul Provenza
I think that just about says it.
I love it how people, and those who quote them, have apparently never studied any theology, yet they always have such strong opinions on it.
First off, the bush was not literally burning.
Go read Exodus 3. And not the various commentaries on it because most are wrong.
Second, how can one not see the difference between making gods out of earthly weather events, vs those events that are supposed miracles that defy the laws of nature. Big difference.
FYI, I am not a religious man, I just use some common sense and intellect.
What does it matter if it’s a literal or figurative burning bush? I don’t see how this is relevant.
And are you arguing that the less a religion adheres to the laws of the universe the more believable it is? The bible has miracles and roman mythology simple describes weather patterns so the bible is more sensible? This logic seems a little backwards to me. And even if the logic were not backwards, you are ignoring the fact that all kinds of crazy crap happens in Roman Mythology. Did you ever hear about the one where Zues turns into a bull?
All religion is mythology. It’s just a question of time as to when one is deemed silly and replaced by another (equally as silly).
Well my point is he was suggesting that the less grounded a belief system is, the more likely it is to be true. Which is a little silly.
Also stop subtly trolling.
I have been accused of many things. Being subtle has never been one of them.
Just ask alfie.
Okay so stop trolling.
Friend of Science and Religion continuing in his conflicting non-sequiters says:
8/27/2012 at 8:13 am
Luddites fear technological change. I fear the RATE of technological change, and its application by a generally dim-witted angry species. /// This distinction is meant to point out what? forget the luddites, I mean YOU. ie==can’t be “rate” of change but actually some actual change say like the discovery of atomic elements? iow==any discovery harmful to man? Like the bow and arrow or the stirrup? How self possessed we are.
Fact is, we don’t know how to handle the science and technology we’ve got. Yet we keep opening up new cans of worms every day. /// Name what we can’t handle? Your FEARS are not reality. Just FEARS. Have you used your fertile imagination to imagine human life/prospects/conditions WITHOUT the science that fears you? How would that work?
What’s the realistic end game for science and mankind? It appears to be a race to oblivion. /// Name any course that isn’t?
If you don’t think so, I hope you’re right. /// No, I agree with you. We are on a non-stop train to oblivion. Makes jumping the rails before destination almost irrelevant wouldn’t you say?
Ha, ha. Monkeys with brains.
I know you’re on a roll today, but since you asked…
“Name what we can’t handle?”
Nuclear material, chemical warfare agents, crack cocaine, and 5-hour energy drink. Better living through chemistry?
“If you don’t think so, I hope you’re right. /// No, I agree with you. We are on a non-stop train to oblivion. Makes jumping the rails before destination almost irrelevant wouldn’t you say?”
Glad we agree. But why take the bullet train to get there?
Well Friend–you got me there. I’m responding half to what you posted but equally to the others.
Here is my sober point: its not enough to correctly criticize what you do. That is a meaningless exercise until/unless you have a better approach.
Would the world be a better place had the Genie not been released from the bottle? I agree. But was that even possible at the time? Lose the War to the Nazis and get killed off in a labor camp OR create the bomb that wins the war?
In reality–not even a close question absent a Magic Eight Ball that is never wrong.
I don’t disagree with the first step you took===only that thereafter you stopped and did not go anywhere at all.
Reality is like that.
A fair response to ponder, sir!
I bid you *Adieu (“I commend you to God”)
* rhymes with: accrue, achoo, Agnew, aircrew, airscrew, anew, askew, babu, Baku, and bamboo
It’s all about the interpretation of the “evidence”. One person can look at it and conclude evolution and another can look at it and conclude creation.
The only thing you can really prove about the dinosaurs is that they died, not that we evolved. (Nye said dinosaurs as an example of evolution)
Just out of curiosity, what evidence do you feel supports Creationism?
Before alfie answers let me guess, the bible. What do I win?
Creationism is not appropriate for children.
I agree with him.
We now have the Internet with a variable input of ideas that moves the mind in a spectrum of thought. I guess the book that says that only Creationism is the only answer probably would not bother any child.
The Internet is like the wheel or fire. Once opened it stays open and can never be closed.
If you turn off the electricity it can be opened by battery via WIFI.
Creationism is just another color in the spectrum.
NewformatSux disappoints me completely by saying:
8/27/2012 at 8:25 am
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/18/replicating-al-gores-climate-101-video-experiment-shows-that-his-high-school-physics-could-never-work-as-advertised/
I’d like to see Bill Nye apologize for thsi before anyone takes him seriously again. //// OMG!!! I mean: OH….MY…..GOD!
You can’t be this stupid? Well, I gotta take you at your printed affirmations. You think the Al Gore DEMONSTATION can’t work as advertised because they used different thermometers to show the temp rise rather than the ones that were supposedly used in the actual statement????
Experiment vs Demonstration.
Gee Whiz—I keep telling you idiots to buy and read a dictionary. Your basic language skills amount to shitting in your pants in the morning and then walking around all day long criticizing everyone else for smelling.
Dopes.
Reply
dege, making Alfie look good says:
8/27/2012 at 11:13 am
I love it how people, and those who quote them, have apparently never studied any theology, yet they always have such strong opinions on it. /// What do you use to measure/guage/assess “strength” of opinion? Do you think “strength of opinion” applies to a Comedians Punch Line?
First off, the bush was not literally burning. /// And no one but you said it was. You do realize this is the epitomy of a weak, (aka–not strong) argument to make?==ie==respond to something that wasn’t said? Its the mark of a grade A idiot.
Go read Exodus 3. And not the various commentaries on it because most are wrong. /// Which of the 1349 Versions should we read==and to what point?
Second, how can one not see the difference between making gods out of earthly weather events, vs those events that are supposed miracles that defy the laws of nature. Big difference. /// How is not understanding what you are observing significantly or strongly different one example from another? Especially if you aren’t observing anything at all and rather are just reading one of 1349 Versions of what someone else wrote in a book,
FYI, I am not a religious man, I just use some common sense and intellect. /// Ohhhh soooo close. If you were religious, at least you’d be something……. cause you ain’t the other two.
We need a supplemental category cause Silly Hooman just isn’t catching it anymore ………………………………………….
Alfie Stoopid.
Who says belief in creationism or evolution is mutually exclusive? You cant believe in the bible without believing that science exists at the same time? Really?
I have an oldschool uncle. He is very loving, intelligent and has a great business mind. But, he is so solid in his christian faith that he “shudders to think what kind of experiments they are doing on the space station” He thinks, well god made man, therefore the entire basis of science is bs, and every scientist is basically a quack or mad scientist. He wont allow for the possibility of the science theory to be true, because that is clearly against the bible. Ridiculous conclusion that there can only be truth in one line of thinking. Nothing can evolve because God made Adam and Eve. Think, think, think! Dont be a meat puppet to your ancestors fearful beliefs.
At the risk of repeating myself :
“The stage is too big for the drama.” Feynman, 1959.
From here we can see hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars. I find it hard to believe the creator of all this takes attendance, or cares who sleeps with whom.
Of course, that doesn’t mean I don’t believe in right and wrong — our sense of right and wrong is built into our brains and our genes, and is developed and nurtured by society.
The ten commandments and other systems of ethics are methods for building/maintaining a healthy, successful society — that is, allowing us to live together in groups larger than a dozen or two with a minimum of trouble and strife.
Much of ethics and religion is mankind still trying to adjust to the switch from hunter-gatherer bands to the larger, more permanent settlements allowed by the invention of agriculture.
= = = = = = = = = = = =
Hyph3n says, in part:
“Please tell me the great scientific achievements of the Amish?”
They have largely figured out how to live in a world after the oil is gone.
“The Stage is too big for the Drama.” /// Catches the issue perfectly and yet somehow itself is not big enough? Not “evocative” enough? Not attention grabbing enough? More the work of a thoughtful scientist than a word smith.
What could we substitute. Of course with that Carl Sagan drifiting through the Cosmos Music going on at the same time?
………………………….It is what it is.
………………………….It is what it is, and we are nothing.
………………………….Look, just LOOK!
Nah. I got nothing. Amusing that as big, large, infinite and unknowable as it is, it means nothing… our hour upon the stage… and then, out like a match.
Who created the Bible and can you prove it?
Here in TN, they have taken steps though new legislation to allow creationism back into the classroom. This law turns the clock back nearly 100 years here in the seemingly unprogressive South and is simply embarrassing. There is no argument against the Theory of Evolution other than that of religious doctrine. The Monkey Law only opens the door for fanatic Christianity to creep its way back into our classrooms. You can see my visual response as a Tennessean to this absurd law on my artist’s blog at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2012/04/pulpit-in-classroom-biblical-agenda-in.html with some evolutionary art and a little bit of simple logic.
A little art and multi-media sure does spruce up a blogspot.
Well done.