On average in the summer, about half of the surface of Greenland’s ice sheet naturally melts. At high elevations, most of that melt water quickly refreezes in place. Near the coast, some of the melt water is retained by the ice sheet and the rest is lost to the ocean. But this year the extent of ice melting at or near the surface jumped dramatically. According to satellite data, an estimated 97 percent of the ice sheet surface thawed at some point in mid-July.
Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise.
I just read it from a different source.
Over a thousand years ago settlers from Scandinavia settled in Greenland because it was green with trees and grasslands.
Their civilization eventually froze to death when the cold spell returned with a vengeance.
So this change in the Greenland Icesheets is nothing new.
It will change again.
I was about to say the same thing. The native settlers of Greenland are jumping for joy right now hoping the a climate change (man made or not) will happen since they can start farming more (again!).
Exactly.
Putting the “green” back in Greenland.
It’s human naiveté that says everything is supposed to stay the same, and that we need to freak out over variations.
Not only that. There is clear archaeological and ice-core evidence of that period. What article does not mention is that recent retreat of Greenland ice have exposed ruins of large farming communities, buried under the ice for thousand+ years. By size and type, farming and livestock raising was at very high level… STILL not possible in modern days due to a COLD CLIMATE of the present. Published, peer reviewed, not fiction writing. This evidence is supported by the both Arctic and Antarctic ice core data for temperatures during the same period. Again, published , peer reviewed. We live in particularly cold period even in historical scale. Stop “global warming threat” nonsense. It should be welcomed no matter the source. End to the little ice age already. Enough those glaciers.
Lucky they had their engines going, otherwise no steering and probably a capsize.
Notice it is 97% of the surface, not the ice sheet itself.
“Greenland was relatively warm between about 800-1300 AD due to the well-defined 1500 year solar cycle, as detailed by Singer and Avery…” //// and so it goes.
Some people are entrenched in their ignorance…. and proud of it.
Next up: we breath co2 and plants grow better with it.
Stupid Humans.
Head for the hills. When the ice sheet melts, the ocean level rises.
Who would have thunk it.
Next up: The climate changes because of climate change.
Climate changes from two basic inputs:
A. NATURAL–like solar cycles, orbit, and what not. Nothing hoomans can do about that in reasonable terms.
B. MAN MADE–what we do in the environment like chop down trees, pump co2 into the atmosphere and so forth.
The NATURAL has been modeled as best as can be done and is mostly considered our givens. The Man Made are what we choose to do based upon the best estimates of what the effects will be.
We’re all doomed….. but its good to know why: too many people. It ain’t gonna be pretty. I’m stocking up on boxed wine to toast the final sunsets==as many as I can cram in as all my city folks neighbors emmigrate to the country side, colliding with like minded lemmings and the “Surviving Survivalists” who got there first. Gonna be a party.
I’m thinking 50 years.
Absolutely we are all doomed. We started to die the day we were born.
Please tell your city folk friends not to bring their barking dogs with them or they will be shot.
Please tell your city folk friends we don’t have street lights. It gets dark at night and they will be scared. Scared, whiny city folks will be shot.
Please tell your city folk friends we don’t have a shopping mall and they won’t need to lock the doors of their house or car, because criminals will be shot.
On second thought, please tell your city folk friends not to think about moving out to the countryside. There are some very weird and scary people that live in the country and they carry guns.
I’m thinking in 50 years I will be fertilizer.
Har!
Bummer, I’m sure I won’t be here in 50 years.
So only 50 more years of bobbo’s comments, at least the end is in sight
That’s 1300 times longer than predicted two weeks. Roughly the same ratio applies to planetary warming, it will happen 1/1300 times as fast as predicted.
They are not smart.
Do not fool with mother nature unless you are ready to die.
Mother Nature was here long before the first amoeba emerged from the primordial soup and Mother Nature will still be here long after humans evolve into an intelligent species and colonize other galaxies.
>not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise.
Meaning, they no it’s not a big deal, but would like to keep the lemmings scared.
“No one on the left is comfortable talking about science,” he told me. “They don’t feel they can easily get their arms around it, so they don’t think about it much. As a result, they are prone to any peddler of ideas that reinforce their preexisting prejudices.”
Alexander Cockburn bemoaning how his fellow lefties fell in for the global warming hoax. He wrote a book the Short History of Fear on the subject.
“Researchers have not yet determined” So what’s the point? It’s summer. Ice melts.
I used to be skeptical of global warming, but I also used to be a republican…
So you are acknowledging the decline of common sense in the world?
“Polar Ice caps melting on neighboring planets…News at 11.”
Climate scientists set up this site to rebut the skeptics, specifically Steve McIntyre. They posted 2 months ago about some new independent hockey sticks from the Southern Hemisphere.
http://realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/05/fresh-hockey-sticks-from-the-southern-hemisphere/
The supposed untrained tool of industry skeptic denier Steve McIntyre looked it over for a day or so, and found flaws, to the point where this paper has been withdrawn by the authors. Yet still the climate scientists refuse to engage the skeptics by opening up their data, and instead treat them with ridicule. Perhaps at some point the climate scientists will acknowledge that their poster boy Michael Mann used a chart upside-down in his paper to get a hockey stick.
You can certainly see your expertise in the work you write. The world hopes for more passionate writers such as you who aren’t afraid to mention how they believe. At all times go after your heart.
Religious Skeptic=Good
Skeptical Journalist=Good
Anthropogenic blady-blah Skeptic=Scourge of the earth, cannot be trusted, falsifies data, ignores SCIENCE! Probably a religious kook.
Dinosaurs went extinct because they couldn’t fit on Noah’s ark. This time can we please make room for all species?
Except humans.
Post a link to those 800 AD satellite photos, you should.
The science is in.
The wise blogger will always check in with Anthony Watts on all things climate hysteria —
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/24/greenland-ice-melt-every-150-years-is-right-on-time/
You guys got there first. Nothing left for me to add. Have a great day and may God bless and keep you.
“Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time,” says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. “But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome.”
Be afraid. Be very afraid. FUD.
Hey Orchi==let me demonstrate a little judicious rationalism by pointing out a very defective analytical pattern you exhibit. It is in fact a sort of “reverse conflation” you are also guilty of.
To whit: “Be afraid. Be very afraid. FUD.”/// How do you get that “extreme/FUD” position out of a carefully considered article that is expressly conditioned upon future events and would be worrisome?
Do you see what I mean/what you do?
Nothing to be “AFRAID” of. Seems you bounce from one extreme to the other==either totally ignoring the issue as inconsequential, or totally ignoring the issue as extremist FUD.
Where is the considered/reasonable/judicious/rational/middle ground for you? …. or do I presume too much?
Let me ask you what Guyver and other science deniers on this forum have failed to answer: what happens to the millions/billions of tons of co2 that we all agree does get pumped into our atmosphere? Will it magically have no effect at all or just what is your studied scientific opinion? Or do you default to FUD by FUDDING yourself???
You should find such behavior obnoxious. I agree that is more difficult to do with all the similarly situated scholars on this forum supporting your position.
And why is the ocean level constantly rising? More FUD???==or is it worrisome?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
Silly Hoomans. Thinking the magic of baseless denial will work in science as it does in politics.
I live in a tent and ride a bicycle to work and I eat vegetables from my garden and fruit from my fruit trees.
I cook my food in a solar oven and air dry my clothes on a clothesline outdoors.
I am a total environmentalist and I shoot cows that fart.
I don’t breathe when I can help it and I keep a close eye on my carbon footprint meter.
Don’t point your finger at me. I am doing the best I can under the circumstances.
Are you using a washing machine, bad bad bad.
I left that part out hoping bobbo wouldn’t notice it, and you blew my cover.
Okay. I have a solar-powered washing machine. Shoot me.
http://newsweekly.com.au/pics/Chart3_MeanSeaLevelSince1992.jpg
Sea level is dropping, in 2006 and 2010. Still hasn’t reached the level of 2 years ago. Even if it does, there is no problem without acceleration. Even the wikipedia chart you links to shows a rate of 8 inches in hundred years.
To answer your question, all that carbon warms the atmosphere, by about 1 degree. Then natural feedbacks would dampen this warming, making the overall level disappear within natural variation.
NFS–there must be a special “term”/place in hell for those that do more than deny science but rather twist and manipulate and misstate science to achieve one particular result? Shill only captures the monetary aspect of that.
1. Might crappy chart. Hard to read. Best as I can understand it, it shows a consistent stead increase in sea level. Yes–ups and downs, zigs and zags==yet the trend is OBVIOUS!! What’s that term for someone who denies what is OBVIOUS???? I know—LIEberTARD catches a lot of it, but those retards deal mostly in sociology and politics.
2. Warms up the atmosphere by 1 degree and then stops huh? What mechanism causes the “stop?” How come greater % of co2 doesn’t simply keep increasing the temps as we see on other worlds all throughout the Universe? What makes the Earth Unique if your fantasy was true???
3. Disappear??? My, my….goodness. I thought I was being sarcastic to call the deniers as those wishing MAGIC upon the world. But that is just what you argue.
Stoopid Hooman would be an upgrade.
1)This trend you speak of is 8 inches in one century.
2)Higher CO2 levels do not cause temperature to increase forever, on this planet or any other planet. There would be a new steady state once you balance watts in and watts out.
3) What I mean by disappear is if total warming from CO2 is .4C and natural variation is +-1C.
Well, NFS, at least you are wearing the mantel of being reasonable. Let’s parse once again:
1)This trend you speak of is 8 inches in one century. /// So, in 300 years that is of how much concern to coastlines which are by definition at zero sea level? One foot above SL in 150 years? I’d call 8 inches per century a severe and rapid ocean rise that will disrupt all of human kind. What would you call it? Recall==sea level rise is just one of many effects. I use it as a net/net/net balance of all the contradictory evidence that retards like to point to.
2)Higher CO2 levels do not cause temperature to increase forever, /// only retards say it goes on forever. Why do you say it goes on forever?
on this planet or any other planet. There would be a new steady state once you balance watts in and watts out. /// Correct–and assuming your position==8 inches of ocean rise per century. Now, just to head you off: Ocean rise will not go on forever. You see==we will run out of ice. So typical of a good party just getting going, but no 7-11 nearby to restock. Hmm, did you think I thought the ice would melt forever????
3) What I mean by disappear is if total warming from CO2 is .4C and natural variation is +-1C. /// Yeah, well my memory fails me==but I think the natural variation is fully accounted for in the two bit computer model and the increase is more like from 2-4 Degress Centigrade with a tipping point feed back cascade somewhere in the middle.
C’mon guys==your facts and logic are severely lacking.
Silly Hoomans.
It’s obvious that Bobo only believes in science of prediction versus empirical realities.
Geology has told us of the climate patterns for thousands of years, yet we are supposed to throw all that away for some two-bit computer model using bad data to predict the future?
Bobo, you are the delusional one, but I’m happy to know that you go to bed at night in utter fear over something that made up to control the masses and develop a larger taxing structure to enslave the world’s population.
kjb434 rotating farther off his nut says:
7/25/2012 at 9:59 am
It’s obvious that Bobo only believes in science of prediction versus empirical realities. /// Hmmm…. what does that even mean? Yes, I believe in Science. What else is there? Never heard of Science of Prediction==what are you strawmanning that phrase to mean? Loading the atmosphere with co2 and it having no effect is just as predictive a statement as saying it will cause heating or cooling over time. Your statement is obfuscation posing as insight.
Geology has told us of the climate patterns for thousands of years, /// Ha, ha. Wrong ology in common parlance. You talking ice cores and/or petrified tree rings, or the archeology of sedimentary levels?? But, definitions can be stretch and should not be a sticking point. As ology is science, I certainly agree science across many different ologies tend to agree with one another regarding co2 levels and temperatures and ocean levels and so forth. Everything connecting to and affecting everything else to varying degrees.
yet we are supposed to throw all that away // No–its the very basis for AGW.
for some two-bit computer model using bad data to predict the future? /// Your alternative is what?
Bobo, you are the delusional one, but I’m happy to know that you go to bed at night in utter fear /// Again with the Orchi FUD bi-polar disorder?
over something that made up to control the masses and develop a larger taxing structure to enslave the world’s population. /// Ha, ha. I smell a LIEberTARD. Say it ain’t so!
Bobo,
behold one of the best collections of scientific data regarding climate change
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
This blog has detailed the largest collection of environmental data on both sides of the issues.
Damn, you’re a psychopath in this thread! You’re more worked up in this thread than any other I’ve read, topping our discussion of the origin of man. You definitely need to take a vacation lol.
@bobbo the brainstem: “Let me ask you what Guyver and other science deniers on this forum have failed to answer: what happens to the millions/billions of tons of co2 that we all agree does get pumped into our atmosphere? Will it magically have no effect at all or just what is your studied scientific opinion? ”
What happens to the millions/billions of tons of piss that we all agree that humans pump into the earth every year? Will it magically have no effect at all? By now, to sciencey blowhards like yourself, the oceans should be nothing but piss and pure water should be nothing but a dream.
http://spiked-online.com/site/article/12664/
I’ve seen people say that the Conservatives in England adopted global warming to boost nuclear power, but this is the first I’ve seen anyone say that that’s why Al Gore is doing it.
Al Gore has to change some of his reasoning since a UK court identified 9 lies in “Inconvenient Truth” that must be explained before and school can show the movie.
bobo,
If you understand science, you would understand that CO2 and other gases that are in the atmosphere doing contribute to the greenhouse effect at a 1:1 ratio. The curve plateaus to where there is a point that increasing CO2 has little measurable affect on the temperature.
Also, geology has shown that the planet responds to the climbing of CO2 naturally and find ways to balance things out.
People need to understand that to the planet earth, humans are an insignificant pest that only been here a short time and can eliminated on whim. We are not the problem nor should anyone be arrogant enough to think we can do anything to change the climate.
http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2012/07/25/news-report-nasa-sudden-massive-melt-in-greenland-my-comments-on-this-media-hype/
The news headline, in particular, is an example of media hype. There was no “massive melt“. The term “massive” implies that the melt involved large masses of the Greenland icecap. They could have written “Sudden Extensive, Short-Term Surface Melting On the Greenland Icecap“, but instead chose to overstate what is a short-term weather event.
Right you are NFS. Headlines are used as teasers to draw the reader in to the body of the article to more correctly understand the subject.
Why are you acting the stooge?
kjb434 reasonably but errantly says:
7/25/2012 at 7:50 am
bobo,
If you understand science, /// I don’t. Just a reader of the popular literature.
you would understand that CO2 and other gases that are in the atmosphere doing contribute to the greenhouse effect at a 1:1 ratio. The curve plateaus to where there is a point that increasing CO2 has little measurable affect on the temperature. /// I don’t think that is true. Got a link?
Also, geology has shown that the planet responds to the climbing of CO2 naturally and find ways to balance things out. /// Yes, the Mother Gaia hypothesis/observation is true to a point. But when this balancing effect is overpowered and the co2 sinks fill up, then we get what we have now==climate change. Not more white flowers to balance the solar input or plankton in the ocean bluming to absorb and sequester the co2==no, the air heats and the ocean turns acidic.
People need to understand that to the planet earth, humans are an insignificant pest that only been here a short time and can eliminated on whim. /// You metaphorically apply a consciousness that is not evident beyone the poetic license. Humans may be significant or not as you will define–just as creating an environment toxic to all living things can be defined as significant or not. Thats how a meaningless universe rolls, or should I say, heats and cools?
We are not the problem nor should anyone be arrogant enough to think we can do anything to change the climate. /// Thats a silly statement and enforces why I won’t take the time to find links to your earlier falsifiable/verifiable statements. You have no credibility.
prove me wrong. Link to any support for any statement you have made. Surprise us all.
behold one of the best collections of scientific data regarding climate change
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
This blog has detailed the largest collection of environmental data on both sides of the issues
This blog has been going on for several years chronically every man-made climate change claim. It also thorough goes through the data when available.
Of course, many climate change data is kept under lock and key because if they allowed peer review, you will see the flaws. The hockey stick was dealt a severe blow when Russian hackers infiltrated the East Anglia University databank and emails and publicly released the information.
Records show climate scientists routinely omitting data that’ll refute their claims. The big uptick in the hockey stick came from skewed data. This has even been taken to court in the UK with the scientist backing down and admitting the hockey stick is wrong.
google (hockey stick graph controversy) and find the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy
Just a right wing science denying urban legend that the hockey stick is not accurate.
Silly hoomans. Misrepresenting science to disprove science. Too bad it ain’t politics, religion, or economics where you can believe whatever you want to heh boys?
Science==always a dissenting minority and always wrong at some point but eventually the consensus forms, multi -disciplines support one another, and violet: the earth circles the Sun with fully 70% of non-scientific people still thinking its 6000 years old.
That just how stupid Hoomans are. Take climate for instance.
Ha, ha.
bobo,
historically, being on the consensus side in science is a losing proposition.
Also, I find it funny that climate scientist never refute claims made against their data and models. They don’t even enter debates. The ones that do the refuting are stooges like yourself, politicians that need climate change to be real for power, and journalists.
Also, I wouldn’t run to Wikipedia. I would suggest you actually read the Wikipedia article and it’s references then site the real source. Citing Wikipedia is for amateurs.
Finally, you being a man of science, can you explain how Mars is experiencing the exact same warming patterns the earth is? Are the lunar rovers emitting CO2 ruining that planet? Mar’s experiences the same warming trends as Earth as documented by NASA’s Goddard Institute. Maybe our warming trends is due to that little fireball we call the sun. And there is more substantive data to support that theory than anything climate scientist are presenting.
Amateurs like you can have the truth laid out right in front of you and never accept it. I’ll leave you in your delusional state.
Citing Google where it cites Wiki is just plain silly. It’s an indication that one doesn’t really know what their talking about but has instead rushed to Google more info for the sake of their own argument no matter the cost.
It’ll be interesting to see how the Mann vs Ball libel case goes. Mann sued Tim Ball for saying “Mann should be in the State Pen, not Penn State”. Instead of saying it is acceptable humor, Ball defended himself on the grounds it is a true statement!
anthony watts debunked = 226,000 hits.
Sure wish I liked candy.
ipcc debunked – 203,000 hits.
Lot’s of debunking going around.
bobbo jackass = 66,400,000 hits
How’s that candy taste?
I am officially ending my assault on Mother Earth.
I am deeply troubled and remorseful for my callous behavior toward the mother that spawned my being and nurtured my existence.
Goodbye, cruel world.
Bobbo helped me to see the light.
I can see the light clearly now. I am moving towards the light.
My relatives are speaking to me now. They are telling me to go back! Go back! You don’t want to be here! It is boring!
Damn. That was close.
OrchidCup
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2011/11/democracy-means-votes-for-waching.html
My average electricity use this hot summer is 33 kWh per day at a cost of $4.00 per day.
I do have a super-efficient mini-split A/C (24 SEER) and a washer and dryer and water heater and refrigerator and all the appliances one would expect to see in a modern home.
I don’t know where the speaker gets the number $40 a day energy use for households that have washing machines.
It is nice to know I have time to read more books because I have a washing machine.
I am so Green my friends are envious.
bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:
7/25/2012 at 9:54 am
Warms up the atmosphere by 1 degree and then stops huh? What mechanism causes the “stop?” How come greater % of co2 doesn’t simply keep increasing the temps as we see on other worlds all throughout the Universe? What makes the Earth Unique if your fantasy was true???
bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:
7/25/2012 at 10:25 am
Well, NFS, at least you are wearing the mantel of being reasonable. Let’s parse once again:
2)Higher CO2 levels do not cause temperature to increase forever, /// only retards say it goes on forever.