When I moved to Canada in 2008, I was a die-hard conservative Republican. So when I found out that we were going to be covered by Canada’s Universal Health Care, I was somewhat disgusted. This meant we couldn’t choose our own health coverage, or even opt out if we wanted too. It also meant that abortion was covered by our taxes, something I had always believed was horrible. I believed based on my politics that government mandated health care was a violation of my freedom.
[…]
I started to feel differently about Universal government mandated and regulated Health care. I realized how many times my family had avoided hospital care because of our lack of coverage. When I mentioned to Canadians that I had been in a car accident as a teen and hadn’t gone into the hospital, they were shocked!
It’s not a perfect system. There are wait lists for elective or non-emergency surgery. But if I’m not feeling well, “how much is the doctor visit going to cost me” doesn’t fit into the equation. I make the appointment and go.
And if a person really doesn’t like it they can always spend the money and head to the States to get treatment.
I’ll take the Canadian system over the American one any day.
>if a person really doesn’t like it they can always spend the money and head to the States to get treatment.
So where will they go if America adopts Canada’s system?
It all academic in my case.
In the US either
• you have insurance and the health-don’t-care industry will make you spend every last dime the insurance company wants to spend (which is bugger all as any doctor can tell you by the complexity of the rules the insurance company has,) have until you die, or
• the health-don’t-care industry will make you spend every last dime you have until you die.
I am one of the 50,000,000 uninsured/underunsured so I’m either well or I’m dead…
Are you unemployed in which case you will be getting free coverage I think? Or do you have enough income that they will charge you a bunch of money but still not give you coverage?
Of course this sort of depends on age. The way this is ultimately going down seniors are going to be allowed to die/given minimum service if they are welfare and have to pay a lot of extra money to cover the taxes on their insurance and medical supplies if they have the money to cover their own bills.
Of course in a way this is all BS because I don’t understand why the fed gov isn’t already in a debt spiral, our debt really is worse than Spain’s, after which we are liable to be running double or even triple digit inflation as the government runs the printing press to cover its bills and the modals don’t work on melt downs that bad.
Are you unemployed in which case you will be getting free coverage I think?
What country are you living in?
Or if you’re a US citizen, what shit are you smoking?
I was laid-off in 2008 from a job working for a IT contracting firm, mostly for banks.
I’m on disability because I have MS, though it took three years to prove that my cane and wobbly walk wasn’t from faking. (I’ll avoid getting into the systemantics of oppositional/adversarial systems setup as if they were cooperative.)
*) MS is a strange orphaned disease. But because it’s an autoimmune disease, its has benefitted from all of all the AIDS research. (The law of unintended consequences, nobody was doing any research on MS.)
There are private clinics within Canada. I had the option to visit one for a non-emergency surgery instead of using the public option. It was cost deterrent and I wasn’t in any major discomfort though.
Surgery was to remove plates from my arm because I had previously broken it.
Where will they go? MEXICO! That’s where. Some Americans are already doing it too!
Isn’t it funny how Mexico and just about any nation south of Texas is more free than anything to the north? That fact alone has me wondering why there’s an immigration “problem.” This is until I’m reminded that illegal aliens don’t have to pay taxes that support these draconian programs like forced health care.
Not having health care is not a sign of freedom.
Living in a country that does not provide healthcare is an indicator of either extreme (Sub Saharan style) poverty or complete lack of a civilised society.
“No society can legitimately call itself civilised if a sick person is denied medical aid because of lack of means.”
Aneurin Bevan
My little sister works for Hickory Springs Mfg and she informed me that her company health insurance will send her to India for major medical procedures. A co-worker needed a hip replacement and the insurance paid for her travel, the procedure, the follow up care, living expenses while there, and her travel back. And it was still cheaper than having the procedure here in the States.
“This meant we couldn’t choose our own health coverage, or even opt out if we wanted too.”
What’s to choose? What HMO you want to be screwed by? How can being refused treatment because you don’t have money be freedom of choice? The US health care system is so broken but your government has convinced you that other systems means “death squads” determine if you live or die. Everyone deserves health care no matter what their social or monetary status is.
“How can being refused treatment because you don’t have money be freedom of choice?” – Because than YOU have choice and responsibility to think and prepare for your health care from the day you are 18. Burden (as it should be) is on individual responsibility. And that is freedom. What is needed is additional freedom to have health plans at all levels of service. If you are indeed poor – you get catastrophic one. When I first came here to US I have had that option. I had 17000$/year and catastrophic health plan for 500$/year. That is all that is needed to “free you from the health care insurance clutches”.
As I posted many times: if there is Governmental health care for all – it eventually degenerates because there is no system that would make it improve as with market forces. In some countries (ex. where I grew up) that means that even if you have all the money – you can’t get care if it is not allowed by the bureaucrats. You CAN’T be individually responsible and say save for it or do anything. You are just victim without influence. In others (like Canada) system splits in two levels: one for the rich who get proper treatment and one for the general population where again individual has no rights or abilities to influence his coverage by his own actions.
Finally how overall quality relates to it: my sister is expert MD in her field (published in Science, bringing millions in grants to Baylor every year…). She works in US. My cousin took 10 years to barely finish medical school. She works in country with “free medicine for all”. You conclude why is that.
> Because than YOU have choice and responsibility to think and prepare for your health care from the day you are 18
Yeah, sure. Think about this the next to you walk into a restaurant and expect service from a waitress. Or pick up your dry cleaning. Or buy groceries at the store.
I don’t see a bunch of people settings their house on fire of just being reckless with it just because the firemen comes quick and free of charge.
And last time I’ve checked, they’re all doing a hell of a job (the firemen), sometimes even giving up their lives for their fellow human being.
Now, tell me why “if there is Governmental health care for all – it eventually degenerates”
Oh lord. Another idiot who has never dealt with the reality of the current system. I love how they just claim that if you just be responsible and buy insurance, then you will be fine.
The hard reality is that if you have a serious illness, the insurance is denied, and you are dropped. If you have ever had an illness, you can’t even buy insurance. They will not accept you. God help you if you ever had cancer in your life. And what recourse is there if your insurance just flat out refuses to pay? You can sue, but they are betting you will be dead before you win.
I seriously wonder what planet these right wing f**ktards live on. Pull your heads out of your ass and look around. The current system is NOT working. Haven’t you noticed that the insurance industry as lied to you? It really isn’t that hard to find people who are totally screwed over by your precious ass private medical insurance.
Have you asked yourselves why we have Medicare in the US? It is because people over 55 could not buy medical insurance. When you got old, you were screwed. So the gov’t had to step in and cover them. There it is, case 1, on why the insurance companies don’t want people who might need care. They will f**k you six ways from Sunday as soon as they can.
Burden (as it should be) is on individual responsibility
But that implies you have some responsibility over contracting the disease.
Nobody ever wants a disease.
That isn’t what is happening to seniors in England or to people in Canada. Some provinces for example have more options for cancer treatment than others. The government of course does decide what it can pay for and Canada is keeping its budget sane.
To repeat everybody may deserve health care but not everybody is getting it under any system. TN has already been down this road once and what we discovered is if costs the state a million a year to keep you alive we can’t afford your bill.
Saying that the U.S. Healthcare System is “broken” because it treats healthcare as a service that you pay for, just like all other services you consume, is completely asinine.
I just ran across a phrase in Diana Rowland‘s Even White Trash Zombies Get the Blues (p. 128) that sort of sums up my feelings about the Repubes’ attitude towards healthcare, or any other kind of care or maintenance, including picking up garbage along the highway or dead bodies in the street.
“I like to compare a virus (or the Repube attitude towards to life in general,) to a bad company that sets up shop in a third world country to make, say, shoes. After the third world country is raped of every resource the company can get its grubby hands on to build the factories and shoes, the people are starving, and the land has been strip-mined, the company at no point goes, ‘Hmmm, we should fix this.’ Instead it pats itself on the back for selling lots and lots of shoes, packs up, and sets up shop all over again in a brand new third world country. This exploitative business assumes there will always be an inexhaustible supply of new countries to inhabit and strip-mine.”
A Repube will pick over your cadaver, even if you’re just defenseless enough not to fight back strenuously enough, and then move on.
The rest of the first and second worlds* are populated by actual human beings who will try to help you instead out of enlightened self-interest because it might be their turn next time because shit happens to everybody.
*) The state of health care in the US is so deplorable that a woman is more likely to die in childbirth in Washington D.C. than in 39 other countries around the world.
If the politicians would have sat down and read the damn healthcare bill FIRST, we’d have THEN implemented the parts agreed to, and debate, refine, or reject the crap parts.
But nooooooooooo… approve it and read it later.
Hold on here, as a Canadian I need to clear up something.
Just to clarify, there is no such thing as the “Canadian healthcare system”. Each province has their own system that is partially funding with federal money. What is and is not covered, what wait times are like, etc, depends on where you live. There is some crossover (if you live in province A at times you can elect to have surgery in province B). Also, I live in Alberta and have the basic Alberta government healthcare (like all Albertans) and then I have a **private** healthcare insurer on top of that. There is also the somewhat government-run Blue Cross but private providers do exist.
Also, as someone who just witnessed my aunt wait over 3 years for a hip replacement and then finally just pay extra to go to a private doctor because her condition became so terrible, I can say that there are ups and downs with our system.
Finally, in other provinces where alternate providers of insurance are not allowed you are simply screwed if the government and you disagree with what care you want to receive/be insured for.
Thanks for the data.
Here’s some more data for you do-ill: if you don’t have commercial coverage in the USA (ie–at least 40 Million Americans including kiddies)==you don’t even qualify to be on a waiting list for that beneficial surgery.
Which is worse? A system with its ups and downs dependent on what the people get implemented thru their representatives — or —
a system where you either get unwanted/unnecessary care because a third party is paying for it or you get zero/zip/nada and have to wait until your chronic condition deteriorates into an emergency?
DAMN!!! – I wish you retards could experience all you advocate for. GET OFF MY PLANET!!
Silly Hoomans.
Wait till you go to Emergency and sit and wait eight hours to see a physician. Been there, done that, many times. Unless you’re about to expire, expect it. BTW, my wife is a GP. Thought I’d mention that.
Which is different than how it is now in what way?
Its not. Canadian health care isn’t all roses. Yes, you’ll get some level of health care eventually, usually. And its hardly “free”. This is yet another reason Canadian taxes are so much higher than in the US.
Well, that will never happen here. We’ve been assured that our taxes will not go up and the healthcare will be better than ever.
Ever been to a US emergency room? Eight hours is about right unless you are seriously bleeding. And you do not get to see anybody beyond the admitting nurse until you see the person that confirms insurance coverage.
I have never read such a glowing article. It’s as if she had an epiphany. Canada must be a wonderful place.
No it’s terrible covered in ice and snow full of women speaking french and the only thing to eat is poutine.
I certainly wouldn’t recommend any americans moving here
American’s have earned the right to celebrate their pride in American brand of freedom; freedom from not having to buy or pay for someone else Health Insurance!
American are really smart and will fight for what’s best for them. What does Canada have to show US?
1. American’s fought in foreign wars, losing life and loved ones to increase their freedoms with the 1978 Supreme Court repeal of Usury Law!
2. American’s increased their freedom against laws imposing separation of commercial and investment Banks, with the repeal in 1999 of the Glass-Steagall Act!
3. American’s increased their freedom with the “Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000” for deregulation of over-the-counter derivatives, so that they would not be regulated as “futures” under the Commodity Exchange Act of 1936 (CEA) or as “securities” under the federal securities laws!
4. American’s have sacrificed their voice to win expanded freedoms in “Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission”, where the US Supreme Court held that the First Amendment prohibited the government from restricting independent political expenditures by corporations and unions.
There is no perfect system and costs will never be contained as long as we as people are becoming more unhealthy and creating more expensive treatments. What we need is better incentives to save money on health care by staying healthy. Not being covered for all our conditions. So we have more people covered with Obama care? That’s great but it also means someone still has to pay those bills. If you now have insurance, you will be more inclined to seek out more care. Its the preventive care I rarely read anything about. Its like car thefts, great that more people are covered to replace your car. Bad if nothing is done to stop car theft. Because we know that leads to higher costs of insurance.
America needs to start focusing on lowering cost through healthy lifestyles. Not just covering the results of bad lifestyles.
USA ranks around 23rd plus or minus on every survey regarding cost/satisfaction with healthcare services. That still allows for incredible variation on individual experiences.
But why let facts get in the way of your fantasies?
Silly Hoomans.
I started with this list.
http://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-by-date/
Looked up the current population numbers of each (2010-11), on Wikipedia. And totaled them up.
So about 687.312 million people have Universal (National?) Health Care. Or 698.56 million, if you include Cuba (see “Sicko”). Compared to the USA’s 313.949 million people, that don’t. Or 699m to 314m.
So it’s well more than 2 to 1 against the USA. Which isn’t going to change that much, even if Greece and Spain looses their shirts, economically. I’m sure the US and some of the other countries will come to their aid, so they can continue to afford their own NHC systems. While the US still debates whether it can.
And like any crazy person who insists the rest of the world has got it all wrong. Being in the minority, by 2 to 1 against, the loudest of US politicians still argue that America has the right answer, of a broken health care system. It makes perfect sense to them to deny the majority of the population, so the 1% minority can enjoy the highest level of care, at the cheapest cost to themselves.
They may fund a wing, now and then. But the 99% of us, pay for the rest of the hospital, staff, drug research, equipment, EMTs, etc. And while the 1% get transported up by helicopter, the rest of us go by ambulance over potholed roads. And that’s no exaggeration.
One county over from me, where all the wealthy horse breeders, and retired govt execs, live. They get helicopter rides to my county’s hospitals. Because they didn’t shell out to build any new ones in their own county. So that’s why they want the US system to stay broken. Otherwise they might be forced to rely on ground transport more, like the rest of us. Or pay for their own damn choppers.
You gotta love the audacity of a country’s citizens to live under the security we provide, and boast about the money it can spend elsewhere. How about Mexico, Canada, and America split the bill 3 ways, and then see how much money they have left over to spend on health care.
This reminds me of a single coworker of mine who lives with his parents, has no children, no wife, and has absolutely nothing of value to his name, yet has the gall to suggest I should buy a brand new 350Z like his.
Why should Canada pay a dime. We haven’t pissed the rest of the world off the way the US has. Go ahead and don’t “defend” us, please!
They used to brag about British NHS in the same way. Even my mother said she liked it. Now we hear about Canada, which has an American safety valve. Wonder what country they’ll go to next for inspiration.
Off topic question: Has John D. dropped X3? It hasn’t been updated in some time.
Off topic answer: The square of the length of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides of a right-angled triangle.
“Give me Liberty, or Give me Death!” – Patrick Henry
What a brilliant ruling by the United States Supreme Court on the affordable health care act (Obamacare). Stunningly brilliant in my humble opinion. I could not have ask for a better ruling on a potentially catastrophic healthcare act than We The People Of The United States received from our Supreme Court.
If the court had upheld the constitutionality of the individual mandate under the commerce clause it would have meant the catastrophic loss of the most precious thing we own. Our individual liberty. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Supreme Court.
There is no mandate to buy private for-profit health insurance. There is only a nominal tax on income eligible individuals who don’t have health insurance. This is a HUGE! difference. And I suspect that tax may be subject to constitutional challenge as it ripens.
This is a critically important distinction. Because under the commerce clause individuals would have been compelled to support the most costly, dangerous, unethical, morally repugnant, and defective type of health insurance you can have. For-profit health insurance, and the for-profit proxies called private non-profits and co-ops.
Equally impressive in the courts ruling was the majorities willingness to throw out the whole law if the court could not find a way to sever the individual mandate under the commerce clause from the rest of the act. Bravo! Supreme Court.
Thanks to the Supreme Court we now have an opportunity to fix our healthcare crisis the right way. Without the obscene delusion that Washington can get away with forcing Americans to buy a costly, dangerous and highly defective private product (for-profit health insurance).
During the passage of ACA/Obamacare some politicians said that the ACA was better than nothing. But the truth was that until the Supreme Court fixed it the ACA/Obamacare was worse than nothing at all. It would have meant the catastrophic loss of your precious liberty for the false promise and illusion of healthcare security under the deadly and costly for-profit healthcare system that dominates American healthcare.
As everyone knows now. The fix for our healthcare crisis is a single payer system (Medicare for all) like the rest of the developed world has. Or a robust Public Option choice available to everyone on day one that can quickly lead to a single payer system.
We still have a healthcare crisis in America. With hundreds of thousands dieing needlessly every year in America. And a for-profit medical industrial complex that threatens the security and health of the entire world. The ACA/Obamacare will not fix that.
The for-profit medical industrial complex has already attacked the world with H1N1 killing thousands, and injuring millions. And more attacks are planned for profit, and to feed their greed.
To all of you who have fought so hard to do the kind and right thing for your fellow human beings at a time of our greatest needs I applaud you. Be proud of your-self.
God Bless You my fellow human beings. I’m proud to be one of you. You did good.
See you on the battle field.
Sincerely
jacksmith – WorkingClass 🙂
Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it.
John Adams (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
Thoughts on Government, 1776
If you think big business and corporate interests have scored a big hit with ObamaCare, wait and see what happens if Willard Romoney is elected.
Washington D.C. is a legislature of special interests, catering to the aristocracy of wealthy corporations and billionaire royalty.
When will the people learn they are being duped by both political parties? Same old song, different dance.
I thought you were just sarcastic up to this point
“The for-profit medical industrial complex has already attacked the world with H1N1 killing thousands, and injuring millions.”
then I knew you were an alfie level nutcase.
A Canadian-style HC system could easily work in the US if the US had Canada’s demographics.
But it doesn’t.
Also, ObamaCare provides a business benefit to Republican states, that do not set up the exchanges. Because of the secrecy and hasty passage, the law is worded poorly. If the federal government sets up the exchange in a state, then businesses are not penalized $3000 per employee for not providing health insurance. So businesses do not face the expansion and hiring penalties if their governors refuse to go along with ObamaCare. The Democratic run states are screwed.
Pfft, $300 for 5minutes…how about $700 to look at my back on each visit doing ntohing but having me lay in a vibrating chair that pains me more. Now that’s highway robbery. This is in US btw.
Finally took a chance while in China to visit a recommended, very young, masseur. He noticed my problem immediately without any technology and apply pressure and massages and walla, no more back pain. All for 50 yuan, which I in turn was so happy I gave him 200. 200 yuan is not a lot btw (divide by 7 for us dollar). I have been free of back pain since then.I use him every chance I get when I’m nearby. Humble fella, he and his wife.
My point is, medical care is not going to be the same for everyone. That much we all can agree upon, even from the same hospital/clinic. Our only hope to to find and stick to a doctor whom we can trust. Same basic rules 🙂
Canada’s social medicine is some of the best care you can get in the world.
If it is an emergency.
I’ve been hobbling around for 2 years now with a torn meniscus. My MRI scan finally comes up in August. When the other knee recently showed same symptoms, I was told that knee had to go to the back of the line instead of scanning at the same time.
My US cousins say I should be a poster boy for ObamaCare.
RBG