And the whole private prison system is making it worse. To be profitable, they need inmates, so you need people convicted, one way or another. Add to that cops who need arrests to justify their overtime pay and the need to collect financial penalties to help ailing city coffers and you have a recipe for abuse. Oh, yeah. Almost forgot ‘tough on crime’ politicians, the surveillance state, and…
The US criminal justice system is a broken machine that wrongfully convicts innocent people, sentencing thousands of people to prison or to death for the crimes of others, as a new study reveals. The University of Michigan law school and Northwestern University have compiled a new National Registry of Exonerations – a database of over 2,000 prisoners exonerated between 1989 and the present day, when DNA evidence has been widely used to clear the names of innocent people convicted of rape and murder. Of these, 885 have profiles developed for the registry’s website, exonerationregistry.org.
The details are shocking. Death row inmates were exonerated nine times more frequently than others convicted of murder. One-fourth of those exonerated of murder had received a death sentence, while half of those who had been wrongfully convicted of rape or murder faced death or a life behind bars. Ten of the inmates went to their grave before their names were cleared.
The leading causes of wrongful convictions include perjury, flawed eyewitness identification and prosecutorial misconduct. For those who have placed unequivocal faith in the US criminal justice system and believe that all condemned prisoners are guilty of the crime of which they were convicted, the data must make for a rude awakening.
For Profit prison systems, For Profit Political systems, For Profit Healthcare Systems…..I’m starting to see a pattern here.
What is this “For Profit” mantra that has captured the public’s attention so?
For Profit: I lie cheat and steal from YOU and I get rich, RICH!!! And you let me get away with it (JP Morgan, Chase–anyone?) because you are so stupid you think you want the chance to lie cheat and steal too?
Silly Hoomans. Offering their jugulars for the sacrific to greed.
RICH = CRIMINAL
LETTING THE RICH BE CRIMINALS = Republican voting base.
Plain to see—–just look. LOOK!!!
What an ugly picture a mirror presents!
Yea, verily!!
It’s tuff being you.
Agreed. Again, follow the money….
Test:
Who has a higher incarceration rate:
(a). China
(b). Iran
(c). Louisiana
I love the term “prosecutorial misconduct.”
When the prosecutors (who are lawyers, of course) conspire
and commit crimes, they redefine them as infractions of
rules, requiring no more punishment than a slap on the wrist,
if that.
It’s a livin’.
Like Tom Waits sang in “God’s Away on Business”
Wow. Someone just figured out that a system run by humans makes mistakes once in a while.
Innocent people have been and always will be incarcerated and/or fried as a natural result of a human invented and run system. Get over it.
Or you could suggest your better way.
Don’t put anyone in jail. Bash prosecutors at every turn, and treat defense attorneys as heroic. Whine about crime policies that don’t focus on rehabilitation. Complain about the death penalty, while acting tough and saying that life in prison would be a punishment worse than death.
No inspectors, no oversight. Makes the Republicans proud. Privatize everything. It must be better.
Or you could suggest your better way.
Glad you asked, ±. It’s simple. Don’t execute people. Put them in jail indefinitely, and if we find out they’re really innocent, let them out.
Got that? You other wackos? Too complex for ya, should I break it down? Write it in crayon? Dusanmal? Newfornatsux? pedrito?
Phydeau — the problem is I don’t want to pay for housing/feeding anyone who should be executed (all premeditated murderers). I’m OK with it if you and all like minded people split the burden tho. But that isn’t likely to happen for lots of reasons; the main one being that when you find out how much you have to pay, you won’t put your money where your mouth is.
Another point you don’t get is that the inevitable innocents killed is a small price to pay for how much better society will be without keeping the scum around.
Better to kill hundreds of innocents than to let one guilty man go free, huh?
We clearly have differing opinions about a “better society.”
Its no surprise that word play on a famous quote is beyond your ken.
And who asked you to “butt in” anyway?
Who lost anything? I just like poking you with your own stupid hypocritical comments.
You should just comment “First!” and have done with it.
Perdedor already insulted someone! Discussion over!
If you did your research, ±, you’d find that it actually costs more to execute people than to lock them up for life — all the appeals and hearings and such to try to be as sure as possible that they’re not killing the wrong person. And yet they kill innocent people anyway. So your cost argument is invalid.
I suspect you’re just an angry, irrational, bloodthirsty m-f’er. As tcc3 pointed out, you don’t mind the government killing some innocent people just so you can see some guilty people put to death.
What a sorry piece of work you are.
2000 out of how many? Isn’t the traditional line, better ten guilty men go free than an innocent be jailed. Looks like the ratio is too far in one direction.
Out of prison population integrated over 23 years (1989-2012)… hundreds of thousands… much better ratio than 10:1.
“The leading causes of wrongful convictions include perjury, flawed eyewitness identification and prosecutorial misconduct.” – all human failings known to founders of the system, can’t be avoided, are very minimal because of how the system works.
So as soon as you can figure out how we can unexecute those innocent men who were wrongly convicted, I’ll climb right on that capital punishment bandwagon.
Let me know.
That might have been too subtle for your Fox News brain. Here’s the point spelled out; I’d write it in crayon for you if I could:
Since we do know that human failings are part of the system, let’s not make permanent decisions like executing people, because we often find that human failings cause conviction of innocent people.
Got it? Or are you OK with the occasional innocent person being executed?
Hey NewFormat==great point. Perhaps the very greater crime is what “guilty” people are in jail for. Did Penn Jilette just say 60% of the incarcerated are there for mere MJ possession or less? If not, someone else just did.
Imagine that? As is almost always the case, its not what is illegal and wrong that is an outrage===its what goes as common and acceptable that is the real outrage.
So aberrant it should be “studied” by scientists. give it a name and find out why hoomans act against their own collective best interest so often. How the social animal interacts in its own group?
Oceans all dead of fish by 2048 as technology cleans out the oceans and “nobody cares” except to catch the last fish and make the last dollar.
Ha, ha. Yes, somebody should study it.
The last fish. That would be worth a billion dollars. Where’s my rod?
A rod? That aint fishin, get me a stick of TNT, now that’s fishin.
Unless you’re willing to trade places with one of the wrongfully executed, shut the fuck up about acceptable ratios of mistakes.
A man in Austin, Texas was released after serving 25 years in prison for a crime he did not commit. He was exonerated by DNA evidence that was withheld from the defense by the prosecutor.
The prosecutor is exempt from liability even though he concealed exculpatory evidence from the jury.
The real criminal in this case was the prosecutor.
The man who was set free will receive monetary compensation from the State, but it will never make up for spending 25 years of his adult life in prison.
I guess these kinds of “mistakes” are acceptable to some people, unless you are the guy who spent most of your life in prison.
They had DNA evidence in 1987?
If they kept crime scene evidence from 1987, some kind of blood or tissue I guess, they could examine its DNA today.
Bingo.
Private enterprise didn’t send this man to prison. It was a man who received his income from taxes. And brother, there are a lot of taxes to pay the man.
The one man did not tax the public for his income nor reported to tax payer.
Your single individual example is meaningless and completely hollow irresponsible when you ignore a high level statistic that the shows privately run prison system in Louisiana has not a marginally higher incarceration rate than either China or Iran, but rather many times that.
How do you account for ignoring this elephant in the room statistic when you defend privatizing the penal system?
First Point:
The prosecutor gets paid from taxes, correct? In 2007, he made $160,000/yr, twice what a public defender gets. That’s a lot of tax money.
He is the one who broke the law by covering up facts that might have exonerated the man.
If the government would pay for a decent defense instead of college graduate level defenders, this might not be a problem.
Second Point:
The privatization of the the penal system has nothing to do with who gets sent there. The government is still responsible for that.
If you want to beat up on La, then beat up on the state government. There’s a reason the cliche’ is “La has the best politicians money can buy.”
The wingnuts are perfectly fine with executing innocent people. Hey, no one’s perfect, right? Plus, they were probably guilty of something. A lot of them were guilty of being black, as a matter of fact.
Everybody knows that 99% of all crimes are committed by black people even though they only make up 13% of the total population.
Everybody knows that 99% of welfare recipients are black people or illegal immigrants.
Everybody knows that people who collect unemployment benefits are lazy cretins that can’t hold down a job.
You are a long way from being a wingnut. You need to study harder.
lol I think you got the wingnut credo pretty well described there orchidcup 🙂
Pardon the interruption, but Uncle Dave’s comments suggest that the for-profit prison system plays a part in the wrongful conviction of innocent people.
Can someone connect the dots for me? With facts?
Thanks.
I googled your inquiry.
I can’t vet all the facts, but this is taken from a newspaper article in Louisiana entitled “Louisiana is the world’s prison capital” published in the New Orleans Time-Picayune:
The hidden engine behind the state’s well-oiled prison machine is cold, hard cash. A majority of Louisiana inmates are housed in for-profit facilities, which must be supplied with a constant influx of human beings or a $182 million industry will go bankrupt.
Several homegrown private prison companies command a slice of the market. But in a uniquely Louisiana twist, most prison entrepreneurs are rural sheriffs, who hold tremendous sway in remote parishes like Madison, Avoyelles, East Carroll and Concordia. A good portion of Louisiana law enforcement is financed with dollars legally skimmed off the top of prison operations.
If the inmate count dips, sheriffs bleed money. Their constituents lose jobs. The prison lobby ensures this does not happen by thwarting nearly every reform that could result in fewer people behind bars.
Thanks for the reply. It would be interesting to know how many of the prisoners are from out of state. Our local prison is expanding to accommodate more prisoners, the vast majority of which are not from our state. The prison is making a lot of money doing this. Oh. Did mention this is a state-run prison?
I disagree with Uncle Dave’s premise. I think it’s a much more complex issue than that.
Every issue is always more complex than it sounds.
If everything were simple, there would be simple solutions to everything.
Whenever anyone makes a rule, there are always exceptions to the rule, and then there are exceptions to the exceptions.
Life is complicated.
Life is complicated. Lesson learned. Thanks.
There was also a scandal a few years ago about a juvie judge who railroaded a bunch of kids becasue he was getting kickbacks to send them to a private facility. In New Jersey I believe.
The “Criminal Justice System” is ITSELF A CRIME !!! They just want CONVICTIONS – AT ANY COST – and won’t admit any error !!! That’s why the Police, the Prosecutors, the Judges, and the Jailers are ALL CORRUPT !!!
Everybody in the system has a job that is compartmentalized. Each of the compartments believe they are doing a good job for the most part.
It is not so much corruption as it is an unwieldy and money-driven system that is unmanageable with very little oversight.
If not for The Innocence Project, many more innocent people would still be in prison.
To anyone who has ever served on a jury in a criminal case should not be surprised at this.
There are soooo many barriers put up against getting at the truth that it is nearly impossible to make a clear decision. The jury, charged with the decision of sending someone to jail (or worse) is denied access to vital information as a matter of law, routine, error and, sometimes I think, just plain fun for the lawyers. It’s an absolute shame.
Add to that the fact that 60-75% of the things people are tried for shouldn’t really be crimes (drugs, prostitution, carrying a guy, being in the same car with someone who commits a crime without your knowledge, vagrancy….) and you have a real disaster.
And, anyone with half a brain and (depending on how you look at it) either no or too much morals, can get out of being on a jury, if not jury service in general.
Yes. It stinks.
Add the death penalty and it reeks!
Juries are charged with trying the facts AND the law.
Juries are not informed of this responsibility. A jury can nullify a law, such as the death penalty, or any other law, if they only knew that they have the power to do so.
Judges do not want a jury to nullify a law, so the jury is not informed. It would mess up the entire legal system.
It’s only illegal to “carry a guy” in some of the southern states.
Such a thing should be illegal everywhere.
sorry. should have been carry a gun.
Oh, and I’m quite aware of jury nullification. The fact that lawyers and judges not only do not inform juries of this possibility but that some actively warn against it and remove jurors for understanding it only adds to the mess.
The sheeple are so brainwashed by preachers and politicians that they are blissfully unaware of their power to acquit if they disagree with a law.
The court only began to erode the jury’s right to judge the law — or more properly, to instruct the lower courts that it was no longer necessary to advise jurors of this right — with Justice Harlan’s execrable decision in Sparf and Hansen vs. the United States (1895.)
But fortunately, the nonsense of the Sparf case cannot prevail. The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals held as recently as 1969, in U.S. vs. Moylan, that “We recognize, as appellants urge, the undisputed power of the jury to acquit, even if its verdict is contrary to the law as given by the judge and contrary to the evidence. … If the jury feels that the law under which the defendant is accused is unjust, or that exigent circumstances justified the actions of the accused, or for any reason which appeals to their logic or passion, the jury has the power to acquit, and the courts must abide by that decision.”
For a more detailed analysis of the history of jury rights, see the well-researched article “Jury Nullification: Empowering the Jury as the Fourth Branch of Government,” by retired justice of the Washington State Supreme Court William Goodloe, in the Summer, 1996 edition of the FIJActivist.
The quarterly newsletter is available at $25 per year from the Fully Informed Jury Association, P.O. Box 59, Helmville, Montana, 59843
Hey orchi–take a big step forward on your educational quest by learning the BIG difference between rights and powers.
It would serve you well.
Meanwhile: life is a mixture of complex and simple with each being confused for the other and 15 other things as well.
Ain’t reality a bitch?
When I hear the words “jury nullification” I start thinking of birthers, truthers and Ron Paul supporters.
I pity you.
Ain’t reality a bitch?
How would you know?
look……just LOOK!
….and take your self imposed blinders off.
When you are told you have your head up your ass—look around. what do you see?
JUST LOOK!!
…and the dictionary is a good place to start.
easy peasy.
I see little difference between life in prison versus the death penalty.
The main reason to have the death penalty is to emotionally appease victim’s families. Which is a very valid reason.
1) Since it takes 10 years for a death penalty to actually happen …
2) Since the system has plenty of checks and balances …
3) Since the death penalty can only be done by a jury due to a court ruling …
I think the status quo is about perfect.
Emotionally distressed families don’t have to think “Why does this murderer who killed my daughter get to live and she doesn’t?” While the actual murderer himself gets plenty of courtroom appearances and a mountain of red tape to deal with.
The death penalty doesn’t really solve problems, deter crime, etc. But it gives families of victims a very small piece of mind.
I think some people do indeed “deserve” the death penalty and I am “for it.” But as with most of my preferences, it wouldn’t bother me to have life in prison==except I would hate to see anyone killed in prison by a lifer with nothing to lose? so maybe–death penalty only for those who murder while in prison? And there’s the rationale for the death penalty to begin with.
but any reading regarding the Innocence Project and even pro death types like should think again. The process is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt except if you are rich. and 99% of us are not rich.
How judges allow a jury trial when it is just one persons word against another, with NO circumstantial evidence, AND the charged has an alibi is BEYOND ME. Yet, it happens all the time. Or on the word of a snitch. Or on the word of a co-conspirator getting a reduced sentence.===recall all with NO confirming circumstantial evidence.
This type of case can only rise to “disputed.” Lots of things wrong with America…. and most of the options are fully on view.
Sad that.
I think the application of the death penalty in times past has sucked. And I definitely oppose the death penalty in any country that isn’t similar to the USA, Canada or the European Union.
In many ways, that one ruling in maybe the 1960s (?) that for a while made the death penalty unconstitutional was the right thing to do.
But back then, there wasn’t “transparency” and fast/easy flow of information, DNA evidence (to comfirm or clear a suspect).
And I’m not arguing for the death penalty to be “mainstream”. I’m just arguing for it to exist as a possibility in murder cases. Not because the death penalty solves anything in the real world (it doesn’t), but because the families of victims won’t be enraged at a perceived callousness of the system that in their minds “doesn’t even have the ability to dispense ‘fairness'”.
Perhaps another way to phrase it: the justice system is supposed to represent a satisfactory social contract, where a neutral government is the arbitrator. If the neutral arbitrator system shifts in a manner that seems to care more about perpetrators and is perceived as being indifferent to the victims, as an institution it is a failure. Even if the perception is wrong.
A legitimate function of society is also to teach and/or moderate its members. It does strike me as inconsistent to kill people to teach people its wrong to kill people. Not that being consistent is the most important thing in the world.
Fact is though that too many mistakes are made.
Fact is though that it costs too much money to execute prisoners under our current system.
So what we have is “lots of” reasons not to execute, compared to a couple or 3 reasons to do it.
As a taxpayer, all I care about is the money.