She is 16, the daughter of a firefighter and a nurse, a self-proclaimed nerd who loves Harry Potter and Facebook. But Jessica Ahlquist is also an outspoken atheist who has incensed this heavily Roman Catholic city with a successful lawsuit to get a prayer removed from the wall of her high school auditorium, where it has hung for 49 years.
A federal judge ruled this month that the prayer’s presence at Cranston High School West was unconstitutional, concluding that it violated the principle of government neutrality in religion. In the weeks since, residents have crowded school board meetings to demand an appeal, Jessica has received online threats and the police have escorted her at school, and Cranston, a dense city of 80,000 just south of Providence, has throbbed with raw emotion.
State Representative Peter G. Palumbo, a Democrat from Cranston, called Jessica “an evil little thing” on a popular talk radio show. Three separate florists refused to deliver her roses sent from a national atheist group. The group, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, has filed a complaint with the Rhode Island Commission for Human Rights.
“I was amazed,” said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the foundation, which is based in Wisconsin and has given Jessica $13,000 from support and scholarship funds. “We haven’t seen a case like this in a long time, with this level of revilement and ostracism and stigmatizing…”
For Jessica, who was baptized in the Catholic Church but said she stopped believing in God at age 10, the prayer was an affront. “It seemed like it was saying, every time I saw it, ‘You don’t belong here…
Last March…the school board voted 4-3 to keep the prayer…The Rhode Island chapter of the A.C.L.U. then asked Jessica if she would serve as a plaintiff in a lawsuit; it was filed the next month…
Does she empathize in any way with members of her community who want the prayer to stay?
“I’ve never been asked this before,” she said. A pause, and then: “It’s almost like making a child get a shot even though they don’t want to. It’s for their own good. I feel like they might see it as a very negative thing right now, but I’m defending their Constitution, too.”
Though the Constitution and the Bill of Rights have been at the core of our national standards for centuries one may hope that Cranston, Rhode Island catches up sooner rather than later.
How christian of these people to make threats against this girl. So much for all of that turn the other cheek crap. It is good to see the christian taliban has such a strong foothold here. If you want your kid to see a prayer at school, send them to the religious school of your choice not a public school. A public school should be a superstition free zone.
So….I guess you didn’t read the part where Jessica mocked her religious peers. Threats! they say. Probably some Biblical quotes that sound 13th century….”they threatened me with hemroids and hell!…(but I don’t believe in hell *te-he*, maybe they’ll go to prison for it!)”
I have a question for anyone who agrees with religious text being displayed on public places. If I was in charge of your kids’ school, what would you say if hanged on the wall the following text?
“O mighty Lord Satan,
teach us to become strong and wise!
Teach us to vanquish the enemies
of our freedom and well-being!”
It’s a serious question. Try answering without being biased.
Separation between church and state. How is there even an argument here?
Nothing get people so worked up as religion.
Nothing is as useless either.
If you lined up all the priests/rabbis/imams/baldfaced liars who have ever lived, (apart from having quite a rogue’s gallery of murderous scum, pedophages and psychopaths,) they haven’t done as much good for the common man as the equivalent of sewer pipe.
I hold doctors in the same high esteem.
Why doctors?
Somebody in the comments asked whether public prayer also bothers us atheists. It does me. It is an absurd demonstration of ignorance and superstition. Not to mention of repression. Woe the poor person (some are girls) not joining in and not bowing head to absurdity.
It becomes really scary when people start talking about god’s will and god’s words. It becomes downright terrifying when the person is a president. If they they not con men we are to expect them to have built in wireless transceivers? The alternative is insanity!
In fact, if I were to start hearing voices in my head or seeing visions – I would have air, water and food checked. If no psychedelics were found, I would ask to be locked up.
The humans who thousands of years ago prayed to the sun were more rational. At least the sun exist (yes Earth – a planet – orbits the sun and neither is flat) and it is of paramount importance to life.
Current theists are more primitive now than then.
When the institutions of learning start promoting religion as anything but an interesting delusion then they are no longer such. It is then called indoctrination. Indoctrination of children is easy and abhorrent. Check out a few Palestinian children’s TV programs for some examples.
For now we have to live with religion as an integral part of politics and learning. Religion is nearly always used for oppression and as a means to power. Intelligent discourse is made impossible in the face of faith. If somebody believes of all their heart that 1+1 is 3 instead of knowing it is not. How do you argue against that?
But it is just a question of time. The sheep are awakening and some become wolves such as this laudable girl protesting. Secularism is the future and theism an evolutionary dead end.
Agree completely! I like your ‘Worshiping the Sun’ example. It was a form of celebration of life, respect and care of Nature.
An early entrepreneur figured out that a “story” can be told around the Sun and well, he just happened to play a role in that story.
This creates a more hostile environment to Christians than praying does to atheists. After all, why are you afraid of something you don’t believe exists?
There are no prayers on the walls of of the bathroom at the local greyhound bus station. Is that a hostile environment for christians? Hurr durr. (Where else are they going to get their homo sex?)
When confronted by an atheist, are you afraid?
Their is no fear here either.
Exactly if you are a true atheist none of this should matter it should seem silly. We should leave it as a history. Are we going go tearing down all of the religious buildings and artifacts that have been historically significant throughout mankind? No. We are going to leave them as part of our history and as a reminder of how religion is used to control the population. If, when you look at a prayer inscription on a wall and it makes you think that you don’t belong here, then maybe you aren’t as much of an atheist as you claim to be.
^^^ 100% agree. This girl is just trying to start trouble.
Everyone loves Jesus and nobody fears anyones beliefs.
The problem are the warm, friendly and *real* Jesus helpers that are to be contained.
Bible Bashers be crazzzy
GOOD!
Oh yeah, poor christians, always so persecuted. Especially in the US.
Obviously the poem does relate to God. But it also has mostly a basic moral theme to respect others. I find it odd this girl thinks its so offensive that she had to take it this far. I also find it disturbing that for the most part we are catering to the minority anymore on issues then standing up for what most of us respect.
If I was the school I would adjust the poem to leave out mention of religion but leave the rest of it.
If the laws of this nation were based on the will of the majority, it would be a very different and much worse place.
Thanks gwad they aren’t.
Man you are ugly, constipated, and mean.
Problem is that “government should take care of everything” enthusiasts did everything in their power to eliminate low cost private schools (changes in law and taxes)
Now people are simply forced to pay for “public” indoctrination centers and can’t afford sending kids to school connected with their own orientation.
Unfortunately instead of focusing on the root of the problem (government knowing better what is good for you) people will now battle semantics ignoring the big issue.
Restore your freedoms America.
Yes, becasue low cost private schools used to be so plentiful that only merchants, landowners and royalty could afford to send their children.
We are sticking to USA in this discussion.
And I’m referring to about 45 years ago. Just check how many churches had a school attached and how much if anything they were charging.
Catholic schools most definitely charged
She is probably not afraid of something that doesn’t exist, but she has to be afraid of the humans that do. What do you think is worse?
Why do Christians feel “threatened” by people that don’t believe what they do? They constantly complain about this and that. Now a 16 yr old girl says she feels “out of place” and wants a prayer removed from a wall she has to stare at on a daily basis everybody goes balistic??? Wake up people…if you neew to write prayers on walls you gotta be pretty desperate. But if it’s totally necessary…why don’t you smear that crap on your house or livingroom wall?
Demanding that the prayer be taken down is the same as censorship. She doesn’t want to have to see evidence that others may believe differently. It’s no different than In-Your-Face demands for recognition by the homosexual community. No body in a constitutional america should be required to provide validation for another’s beliefs any more than they should be required to partake or abstain of them. Doesn’t matter which side of the fence you sit. The issue is the same.
Would you feel the same if it was a prayer to Allah or Xenu?
Or the Spaghetti Monster?
(crickets)
=)
If the prayer had been Islamic I’m not sure any of the posters here would have had the nuts to sue to take it down and if they did I doubt if they’d have lived long enough to see it happen.
Speaking of which there was an anti Iranian government activist Iranian women living in Texas that was killed a week or so back. They having any luck solving that case? Last I heard they had no suspects. All they knew was somebody drove up beside her and shot her dead.
I’m sure it was a domestic dispute of some sort after all the Department of Homeland Security is guarding all the boards so it couldn’t have been an assassination.
You completely miss the point of schools being state funded.
As an atheist I feel that I should not have to be subjected to anybody else religion. Specially in a public place.
To me, this is a simple matter of enforcing the existing laws.
People are reacting as if she was demanding to have the prayer poster removed from a Church it would be a different case.
Please, keep your god out of my soup!
I love that quote in the New Testament… The one where Jesus says, “Pray in public as loudly as you can, and build MASSIVE churches with an image of me at the front. Also, make sure to freak out and show your ugly side whenever confronted with a non- believer (I wasn’t referring to them when I said “Love they neighbor”, and “Turn the other cheek”). Shun the non-believer… Shhhuuuuunnnnnnn-nnnnn…nnn.”
Best Jesus quote evah’.
I’m just wondering what prayers on walls at schools have to do with “Human Rights”?
And TBH: this prayer is pretty weak-sauce.. “Help us to be good sports”? 😛 There isn’t much in this prayer that reflects anything even subtly Christian, this is a white bread jingle that just reflects “good people” attitudes with the word “amen” at the end.
Still, the bigger question here is where do my (human) rights end and yours begin? If the larger population of this town wants to have this prayer on the wall is it necessary to remove it for one 16-year-old?
Don’t worry, my friends. Magic Sky-Daddy will kill her in some spectacular way. After all, it says in Fred 7:11 that “verily, they then went down into Jereboaznoth and slew her with the jawbone of a giraffe.”
Religions developed as a means to frighten and control the masses by the ruling factions of the day, when we were ignorant and frightened by what we could not explain. The rulers of religions have been trying to maintain control through suppression of knowledge and enlightenment for thousands of years through the expansion of its marketing program. Public displays of religion are becoming more crass and desperate as the most insecure and power hungry fight to maintain control.
Question the story (as this girl did) or reject the marketing program and you are ridiculed, threatened or ostracized.
We will never really be free and futuristic until we leave these old out of date religious ideologies behind.
But you don’t understand.
If I don’t believe in Jesus or some other deity then I will burn in Hell after I die or people will shun me in society while I live.
Of course, I could pretend to be a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew of good standing in my church or mosque or synagogue so I may enjoy good employment and good standing in the community …
Oh wait .. that is what they do already …
Never mind.
The mythology of Christianity will pass away just like other mythologies have in the past. Atheism is on the other side of the coin of religion. Both are irrelevant to the course of humanity and in the long term will be put aside. The main value that religion has in it’s corrupted current form is to used as a tool for politicians to manipulate the weak minded. If you hate this post it means you are either a good Christian or a good atheist. SNAP OUT OF IT.
A young lady came home from a date, rather sad. She told her mother, “Jeff proposed to me an hour ago.”
“Then why are you so sad?” her mother asked.
“Because he also told me he was an atheist. Mom, he doesn’t even believe there’s a hell.”
Her mother replied, “Marry him anyway. Between the two of us, we’ll show him how wrong he is.”
+1! 😀
Since attendance at School (gotta get that spelled right after all the news stories about mis-spelled road signs !) is MANDATORY, the FOISTING OF RELIGION OFF ON STUDENTS IS PROHIBITED !!! As it should be, given the “Wall of Separation” between Church and State !!! Let the Churches sell their own brand of Religion without the help and support and apparent “stamp of approval” of the Government !!!
Instead of taking the ONE down, they should have ADDED a bunch more items from all kinds of other religions. A copy of the Koran, a Torah , and maybe a pentagram, etc….
Seriously tho, I’ve already seen this, it happend a few years agon in Republic Mo where the city seal had a symbol of a fish on it – the city is on a river and fishing is a big thing there– so this wack-job sued them and they had to remove the symbol of the fish from their city seal. This sort of thing has happend many time before and since.
Judging from a cursory google search, it wasnt just a fish symbol, it was *the* christian fish symbol.
The defenders claimed it was meant to show the towns commitment to “religion” – not a specific religeon. Weak Sauce.
No one sued over a symbol of river/fishing/industry.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the
press; …
people argue and win in the federal courts for the first part and ignore the second ( or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof)
That girl is in a sense, practicing her own religion, one virtue of which she wants imposed is INTOLERANCE. I myself am sorta feel like an atheist, I do not believe in idolatory and Mary worship being done by catholics (I am a catholic) and I am irritated with the nonsensical scriptures and even the stupidity of islamic/jewish/etc practices. But I tolerate these and I do not fight with the status quo (those that are already entrenched in our culture and society, unless it is against the law or current norms)
If she is allowed this, then everything should be banned, idolatry symbols in money, Churches with visible crosses (seen from streets), temples, etc.
Religion, albeit not logical, is needed to control the evil in this world. If people are told that there are no consequences to their evil deeds in the afterlife, as exposed in Atheism, they would lose their moral compass or the shackles that prevent the majority of the population to commit acts of atrocities. People would live a life of spiritual inconsequence, thinking that there is no hell waiting in their afterlife… Just the mere thought of Hitler not being punished in hell is a good reason why we should hope there is religion…. 🙂
Even though I do not believe in the mumbo jumbo being told by priests, I sometimes bring my kids to church (for the games, and occasional mass), not to impose my warped sense of christianity, but to expose them to the pros and cons of the process.
Whenever we teach our kids about right and wrong, we sometimes enforces this with the system of rewards and punishment. Telling a kid that he will not get a present from Santa Claus (which is even embraced by non-christian cultures) is seen as a rewards and punishment scenario not unlike the teachings of various religions. If the kid is raised as an Atheist, and knowing that there are no rewards in their moral ascension in the world of man, would definitely be a buzz kill and produce more criminals than productive members of society…
Roland, I sense a good heart, but you gotta do some more thinking. Lets parse:
That girl is in a sense, practicing her own religion, /// “In a sense?”–well, ok. Just, in reality she isn’t==she is enforcing the law.
one virtue of which she wants imposed is INTOLERANCE. /// CAPS–oh my! Intolerance against law breaking. Shouldn’t we all be?
I myself am sorta feel like an atheist, /// “Feelings….nothing more than feelings, whoa, whoa, whoa…… Feelings demonstrated as at total odds with THINKING. See those CAPS!
I do not believe in idolatory and Mary worship being done by catholics (I am a catholic) and I am irritated with the nonsensical scriptures and even the stupidity of islamic/jewish/etc practices. But I tolerate these and I do not fight with the status quo (those that are already entrenched in our culture and society, unless it is against the law or current norms) /// A predicate, but you seem to laud yourself for leaving other people alone? Pretty low bar you set for yourself there.
If she is allowed this, /// What part of “the judge ruled” escapes your attention?
then everything should be banned, idolatry symbols in money, /// agreed.
Churches with visible crosses (seen from streets), temples, etc. /// Under what rationale? VERY DIFFERENT what you do on your own property with your own money in public verses what the government does with government money and forces people to attend. Why don’t you jerks understand the element of government involvement in these cases? Its key and you don’t get it at all. Dolts.
Religion, albeit not logical, is needed to control the evil in this world. /// No f*ckwad==morality came before religion, out of our very darwinian survival as a species. Its LAW that protects people, not everyone being coerced into believing the same nonsense you do.
If people are told that there are no consequences to their evil deeds in the afterlife, as exposed in Atheism, they would lose their moral compass or the shackles that prevent the majority of the population to commit acts of atrocities. /// Ha, ha. So you say. Maybe YOU would fee that release as a kind of freedom. I would retain my humanity though and do my best to leave you alone or to act consistently with the Golden Rule.
People would live a life of spiritual inconsequence, /// Yes, just as we all do now. There is no god and with that no spiritual consequence, the imagination of man notwithstanding.
thinking that there is no hell waiting in their afterlife… Just the mere thought of Hitler not being punished in hell is a good reason why we should hope there is religion…. 🙂 /// With an all loving god, there is a place in Heaven for Hitler and no loving god would create a Hell for his children that me made in every aspect. What you talkin bout Willis? Sounds like an evil concoction of hate and desire to control/enslave your fellow man. Tell us it ain’t so?
Even though I do not believe in the mumbo jumbo being told by priests, /// You show just the opposite above. Re read it—see the blather you spount? You know the same ideas can be believed/acted on/inflicted onto other using only different words? Same sand, different bucket.
I sometimes bring my kids to church (for the games, and occasional mass), not to impose my warped sense of christianity, but to expose them to the pros and cons of the process./// Do you take them to autopsies, drug parties, and sex orgies for the same reasons?
Whenever we teach our kids about right and wrong, we sometimes enforces this with the system of rewards and punishment. Telling a kid that he will not get a present from Santa Claus (which is even embraced by non-christian cultures) is seen as a rewards and punishment scenario not unlike the teachings of various religions. If the kid is raised as an Atheist, and knowing that there are no rewards in their moral ascension in the world of man, would definitely be a buzz kill and produce more criminals than productive members of society… /// Boy do you have crap for brains. I was raised a good kiddie just like you were because when I was bad I made my parents sad. Just like you. The Santa Clause and the Jebus is the BS religion you recognize on one level as mumbo jumbo but sadly you demonstrate exactly the same thing with practically every word you utter.
…….and that is why kiddies we want religious crap off our walls.
Actually, the First Amendment prohibits the government from “making a law” that establishes a religion or “making a law” that prohibits a religion.
The framers of the Constitution were opposed to any laws that would establish a national religious sect at the exclusion of all other religious sects.
There is no “separation of church and state” mentioned in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson originated that phrase in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut in 1802. Here is the quote from that letter:
“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.”
Jefferson was using a metaphor to illustrate that the government is prohibited from favoring one religious sect over another by creating laws to that effect.
The issue of allowing religious expression in public schools becomes a problem because there are a number of different religious sects in a given community, so if a school allows the Baptist sect to express their religion, then they must also allow the Buddhists, Jews, Catholics, Lutherans, and all other sects to express their religious beliefs in school. Public schools are not intended to teach or practice religion, that is the function of churches, mosques, or synagogues, etc.
The simplest solution to that problem is to not allow religious expression at all.
Otherwise, schools would be forced to give equal time to all religious sects, and there would be no time left for the teaching of reading, writing, arithmetic, etc.
Orchi–well done, almost lyrical in exposition, but why so irrelevant? After the Constitutition was adopted, it has been interpreted and explicated by the Sup Ct for the last 250 years. If you don’t read the court cases in addition to the Constitution you really are advocating a type of Luddite stupidity. Progress. What does “make no law” mean in practical application? What does “freedom of religion” mean in practical application?
Rather a red herring to post that religion may be taught as history when that is never the case of interest. No history class about religion has ever been sued over. No, its that other kind of relgious case==you know, the INDOCTRINATION kind that creates a negative reaction from those that want to be left alone.
You know about being left alone?: keep you stupid to yourself. Lets say I love chihuahuas? Would you want signs all over the place extolling the virtue of chihuahuas just because I love them? Living in a town with temples to chihuahuas on every other corner? Prayers to chihuahuas to start business meetings?
And relatively speaking, there is much less objectionable traits in chihuahuas than there is to Jebus. And thats not fair because Jebus is actually a nice guy but The Father is drunk on power, and no one knows what the Holy Ghost is doing when we are all asleep. The trifecta–nothing like it in chihuahuas worship. Well, chihuahuas, rat terrier, midget dog. I guess if you push it you can get to three.
See how obnoxious it is? But that wasn’t your point, I stray, like a bad dog. Sorry.
Yes, you either understand the discomfort of FREEEEEDOM, or you are an asswipe. Sad, so many are.
“”The simplest solution to that problem is to not allow religious expression at all””
which prohibits the people’s freedom to practice religion.
I’ll sadly put you down as an asswipe.
You don’t understand “the basics” of what you would like to contest.
In other words: either ignorant, or a fool.
Yea, verily.
Once again: “The issue” is using the government to promote religion. With religion polluting early am cable tv and only one Congress Creep brave enough to say they are an atheist, with 7 of 9 Puke candidates for Pres saying they don’t believe in evolution, with two churches on every street corner, and with YOU allowed to believe whatever you want……..you have to be a complete fool to think you don’t have freeeeeeedom unless everyone else is forced to believe the same things you do.
And thats just what you are.
“which prohibits the people’s freedom to practice religion.”
Hardly. The kids can pray all they want. The school cannot promote a religion.
What? Government is evil, unless it’s shoving my religion down your throat?
>People are reacting as if she was demanding to have the prayer poster removed from a Church it would be a different case.
Obama admin is demanding that churches provide birth control and other services that violate their beliefs.
Got a link for that? “Usually” there is no forcing at all if the practice is entirely in house. Usually, the Church wants to participate in some government program but they don’t want to follow the same rules as everyone else.
Call it: getting the full picture instead of being circumscribed.
A REPEAT of Post #31. Why? Because you retards obviously can’t understand the issues presented here so we gotta go back to catechism and just mindlessly repeat the drill until you mindlessly repeat it. Here we go:
FREEEEEEEEDOM: Someone else doing something you don’t like. YOU not being allowed to do something you do like === using the governments money and color of authority.
You either support this ruling or you are the blind ignorant tyrant not understanding the basics of your own freedom.
Just that simple.
Alfie of course is a given, but now show us just how stoopid you can be. Go>>>>>>>
The danger that religion poses to rational thought is demonstrated by the public reaction. Jessica has received enough threats that police feel her safety is in significant jeopardy. These threats come from “good Christians” who interpret their religion as being fully consistent with threatening violence against those who seek to remove expressions of that religion on public property.
It gets harder and harder to make the case that Christianity, unlike Islam, is a religion of peace and harmony. They are just different flavors of the same poison.
hear! hear!
I have no problem with Christians believing that Jesus was born in the womb of a virgin and Joseph was dumb enough to swallow that story.
I have no problem with people that believe aliens from outer space created the human race and will return soon to save us from ourselves.
I do have a problem with people that attempt to force their beliefs down my throat with threats of eternal damnation or physical violence.
So, this INTOLERANT child, has chosen to FORCE her BELIEFS upon her COMMUNITY. More and more I see atheist FORCING their BELIEFS upon OTHERS. HYPOCRITES!!
Using the COURTS to VIOLATE the CONSTITUTION. HYPOCRITES!!
Funny how we never hear about atheists going after Muslims, Jews or Buddhists. HYPOCRITES!!
I guess atheists only attack the beliefs of Christians. HYPOCRITES!!
The ATHEISTS INQUISITION marches on. HYPOCRITES!!
Alfie—stop it. You aren’t fooling anyone here.
Atheism is not a belief. It is a non-belief.
Buddhism is not a belief, it is a philosophy.
A hypocrite is someone that believes one thing and practices another thing.
My experience with Christianity has taught me that too many professing Christians are hypocrites.
I prefer to remain neutral and expect a loving God to forgive me if I am skeptical of His existence.
After all, I do have the freedom to do so.
@HereTheyGoAgain
Do you even know what a HYPOCRITE is?!
Your post is a GREAT example of religious stupidity and yes, HYPOCRISY!
FYI: Atheists don’t “believe” in crap like religion. That’s the bottom line and pretty much what an atheist even is! Then again, an atheist might also have a “belief” that the Constitution should be applied FAIRLY! So at best, an atheist will likely object to someone else forcing their beliefs on them! Which is pretty much all that is going on here.
Not many public schools have quotes from the Koran on their walls. But if you find any, let’s sue.
Wow, 170 comments. You guys sure waste a lot of time on religion.
You think the subject of this thread is “religion?”
And yet the header is about Constitutional Rights, and many of the comments as well, other than a few ass wiping diversions.
What about religion has captured your attention to the lack of recognition of everything else?
Maybe its that sarcasm thing again?
EDITORS: I call for high count threads to be bumped to the top. Why are you all bending over backwards to foul your own nest?
I dunno, I stopped reading the posts after about 15. Like I stated before, as for affronts to the Constitution, to me this rates about zero on a scale of one to 10.
Until Christians can break down my door in the middle of the night, and detain me for life without trial..I guess I just don’t care.
Christianity and atheism doesn’t interest me.
Have at it.
If memory serves, you are somewhat dismissive towards folks who respond to your own posts that they don’t find them interesting.
I guess some subjects are so captivatingly uninteresting that we are oxymoronically compelled to let everyone know just how uninterested we are. Reminds me of the commercial running now of the teenage chick calling her boyfriend to let him know she is giving him the silent treatment. In like manner==what good is it to be uninterested if no one knows you are uninterested?? Hmmm. Deeper subject than I thought? How come NOT posting on subjects that are immensely interesting doesn’t have the same good effect? A lack of symmetry there, not favored in science.
What percentage of threads/subjects raised on this blog present the threat of your door being broken down in the middle of the night resulting in you being detained for the rest of your life?
There have been a few. No charge/no trial detentions most recently? Did you post repetitively to THAT thread?
I did momentarily think to ask you what you were interested in but you have concretely defined yourself as interested only that one subject. Well, THAT and letting us all know what you aren’t interested in as well.
Heh, heh. Imagine being interested in nothing and yet posting more than any other editor here? Split personality? Manic Depressive? A bit self referential?
Well, keep that boring stuff coming Mc==I find a third of the posts interesting in themselves and 99% of the posts made interesting by one or more of the pendant comments. Gee, I didn’t think any of the 1% would deign to visit this website. None of the comments were at all interesting to you? Have you been at this for too long?
I don’t think lack of interest is the most appropriate reaction. something else that is negative, but not that.
The right words elude me.
We have to pick and choose our own battles. BTW, you’re absolutely right, I shouldn’t have commented at all when the subject doesn’t interest me, it’s what I tell others. My bad.
I am with bobbo on this one.
I was under the impression we were discussing the constitutional implications of religion and the separation of of church and state.
There are a few side comments about religion specifically.
Funny thing is that the bible says that this will all happen, and people still don’t believe.
We live in the year 2012 AD the whole calendar is based on the life of Jesus.
Psalm 14:1
Ten Thousand Murdered at God’s Command
After Joshua died, the Israelites asked the LORD, “Which tribe should attack the Canaanites first?” The LORD answered, “Judah, for I have given them victory over the land.” The leaders of Judah said to their relatives from the tribe of Simeon, “Join with us to fight against the Canaanites living in the territory allotted to us. Then we will help you conquer your territory.”
So the men of Simeon went with Judah. When the men of Judah attacked, the LORD gave them victory over the Canaanites and Perizzites, and they killed ten thousand enemy warriors at the town of Bezek.
While at Bezek they encountered King Adoni-bezek and fought against him, and the Canaanites and Perizzites were defeated. Adoni-bezek escaped, but the Israelites soon captured him and cut off his thumbs and big toes.
Adoni-bezek said, “I once had seventy kings with thumbs and big toes cut off, eating scraps from under my table. Now God has paid me back for what I did to them.” They took him to Jerusalem, and he died there.
The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem and captured it, killing all its people and setting the city on fire. (Judges 1:1-8 NLT)
God ordered the genocide of thousands of people according to the Bible. Is this the God that fools are expected to believe in?
You have clearly violated the unwritten commandment, “Thou shalt not read the Old Testament unaided by a religious interpreter who can explain why everyone who was killed deserved to die for their wicked ways.”
Without such an interpreter, it’s difficult to find a meaningful qualitative difference between what the Israelites did to others during their conquests to take the promised land, and what the Germans did to the Israelites’ descendants many years later. If you happen upon the tale of when Moses ordered the slaughter of many thousands of children who had been taken captive by his army, it may actually turn your stomach even as it reminds you of the German death camps of a much later era.
But other than that, these are lovely religions.
Interesting contradictions in the Bible …
[1]
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
– John 3:13
… and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
– 2 Kings 2:11
[2]
Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
– Matthew 10:34
… all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
– Matthew 26:52
[3]
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
– John 5:31
I am one that bear witness of myself…
– John 8:18
[4]
Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord… Wealth and riches shall be in his house…
– Psalms 112:1-3
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
– Matthew 19:24
[5]
Thou shalt not kill
– Exodus 20:13
Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side… and slay every man his brother…
– Exodus 32:27
[6]
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven… earth…
– Leviticus 26:11
And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.
– Exodus 25:18
[7]
For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.
– Ephesians 2:8-9
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
– James 2:24
[8]
Honor thy father and mother.
– Exodus 20:12
If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
– Luke 14:26
[9]
I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
– Genesis 32:30
No man hath seen God at any time.
– John 1:18
[10]
The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
– Ezekiel 18:20
… I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
– Exodus 20:5
[11]
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
– Proverbs 3:13
For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
– Ecclesiastes 1:18
[12]
The Lord is good to all.
– Psalm 145:6
I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
– Isaiah 45:7
[13]
… for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever.
– Jeremiah 3:12
Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
– Jeremiah 17:4
This is not a complete list of contradictions … only a handful of the most interesting.
This concludes our Bible study for today…
Try reading a current book of fiction. An old book is just an book. Scientology is fairly new.
Not really.
Let us pray.
Most of you have the issue with the fact this girl is hot.
That is all. Thank you and good night.
Yes she is hot. I assume she is also untroubled by the thought of sin so she must “do it” without a second thought. Q.E.D.
Bobbo, no conscience exceptions for churches under Obamacare, except a one year extension to figure out how they will comply.
Churches should not give healthcare services at all. They aren’t qualified or licensed to do so. …….Oh! You probably mean healthcare institutions engaged in the provision of medical services?===aka not a church AT ALL!
All such organizations are CORPORATIONS. What are you, and acolyte of Mitt, I’m out of work too, Romney? In what manner do these CORPORATIONS have a “conscience?” The same conscious that allows themselves to be called non profit and community based while they turn the poor away once certain revenue over expense ratio’s are hit?
That kind of conscience? FIE on their perfidy.===All good and righteous people agree: you can serve mammon or god. Which do you think a corporation is set up to do?
Ha, ha. It really sucks to believe something that is against the law. Ohhhhh the humanity of it all.
They’ll pray the gay away. Like Bachmann’s government funded clinic.
I wish something would work.
And God saw everything that he made, and behold it was very good.
– Genesis 1:31
And it repented the Lord that he had made man on earth, and it grieved him at his heart
– Genesis 6:6
I am not surprised that religious fanatics are confused.
bobbo said,
>>Churches should not give healthcare services at all. They aren’t qualified or licensed to do so.
My church started the #2 ranked hospital in our city.
And the Catholics started the #1 ranked hospital.
(I’m not aware that atheist groups started any, BTW. I could be wrong.)
The oldest American hospital in existence is New York’s famed Bellevue hospital, established in 1736. The hospital, initially a six-bed hospital, was not created by any religious institution but was a municipal hospital created by a secular, non-religious government.
http://atheists.org/The_Question_of_Atheists_Hospitals
It’s always great to see that the Christian Church sometimes does good in the field of medicine. Of course, we all know that this hasn’t always been the case. There were times in history when the Church was arguably the single greatest impediment to the advance of western medicine, especially through their prohibition of the dissection of the human body and the critical anatomical discoveries that result.
Once religious people form their interpretations of God’s will as revealed through the Holy Scriptures, no logic can dissuade them from acting against their imagined Creator’s wishes. Fortunately, the Christians of today realize that in many respects, Christians of yesteryear were simply wrong. It’s just a shame that the Creator of the Universe is such a poor communicator that even his most faithful followers often misinterpret his instructions with tragic results.
Perhaps this girl Jessica has a good point. Diminishing the influence of religion in public life long ago would almost certainly have resulted in the further advance of medical science today.
Proofing my own comment above tells me I should have said “no logic can dissuade them from acting to enforce their imagined Creator’s wishes.” My original wording said just the opposite.
Greg–its a glossy generality to say “a church started a hospital.” Ok–they “started” one==but how? You mean the very same people who attended a given church also did something else? If they were all farmers, would you say that church fed all the people?
But when glossy generalities is all you’ve got, then that is all you’ve got. And thats all you do have.
Churches don’t start anything==they people who attend churches do. Churches only suck up capital and spend it on golden candle sticks in Rome. Protestants?==they spend it on bibles for Nigeria and campaigns to put homosexuals to death. But they don’t start anything.
I’ll say it again: corporations ( or associations) are not people.
Funny how the dogma of religion so effortless melds with the dogma of Republican Politics.
Yea, verily.
Separation of church and state is a win-win.
It’s good for the church.
It’s good for the state.