She is 16, the daughter of a firefighter and a nurse, a self-proclaimed nerd who loves Harry Potter and Facebook. But Jessica Ahlquist is also an outspoken atheist who has incensed this heavily Roman Catholic city with a successful lawsuit to get a prayer removed from the wall of her high school auditorium, where it has hung for 49 years.
A federal judge ruled this month that the prayer’s presence at Cranston High School West was unconstitutional, concluding that it violated the principle of government neutrality in religion. In the weeks since, residents have crowded school board meetings to demand an appeal, Jessica has received online threats and the police have escorted her at school, and Cranston, a dense city of 80,000 just south of Providence, has throbbed with raw emotion.
State Representative Peter G. Palumbo, a Democrat from Cranston, called Jessica “an evil little thing” on a popular talk radio show. Three separate florists refused to deliver her roses sent from a national atheist group. The group, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, has filed a complaint with the Rhode Island Commission for Human Rights.
“I was amazed,” said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the foundation, which is based in Wisconsin and has given Jessica $13,000 from support and scholarship funds. “We haven’t seen a case like this in a long time, with this level of revilement and ostracism and stigmatizing…”
For Jessica, who was baptized in the Catholic Church but said she stopped believing in God at age 10, the prayer was an affront. “It seemed like it was saying, every time I saw it, ‘You don’t belong here…
Last March…the school board voted 4-3 to keep the prayer…The Rhode Island chapter of the A.C.L.U. then asked Jessica if she would serve as a plaintiff in a lawsuit; it was filed the next month…
Does she empathize in any way with members of her community who want the prayer to stay?
“I’ve never been asked this before,” she said. A pause, and then: “It’s almost like making a child get a shot even though they don’t want to. It’s for their own good. I feel like they might see it as a very negative thing right now, but I’m defending their Constitution, too.”
Though the Constitution and the Bill of Rights have been at the core of our national standards for centuries one may hope that Cranston, Rhode Island catches up sooner rather than later.
God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I’ll say it again
God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
Are we to believe that true Catholics would threaten violence over a court supporting Constitutional separations.
Probably jealous trolls from some other religion.
If she doesn’t like it she can stop reading it. Why are her rites more valuable than the rites of the people that went before her for 49 Years. If this stands then U.S. currency is unconstitutional and I hope she gets rid of any money she has that mentions God IE: “In God We Trust” as this should be equally offensive to her.
So, if someone violates the constitution for 49 years, we should just ignore it and let it stand? The separation of church and state was put there for a reason. The state is to remain a neutral platform when it comes to religion. It is not allowed to promote one religion over another.
And yes, that phrase should be removed from our money it was Congress that put it there, wait, we don’t have “money” in this country, aside from coinage. We use a privatized “Federal Reserve Note” issued by a private bank that has carte blanche to do whatever they want outside of federal regulation.
If people are going to vilify her and brand her as ‘evil’ for upholding the Constitution, then by all means send them to the Gallows!
Your argument might carry a little more weight if you learned to spell.
How can you have a Constitutional lawsuit when Obama and Bush have put the Constitution through the paper shreader already?
A Constitutional lawsuit would imply that we have rights and Obama and Bush have signed laws and orders that say otherwise.
Maybe Obama will finally man up and leave no doubt that he is following in the foot steps of Lincoln and actually start deporting his critics rather than repeating the same stupid speeches over and over.
Play the Jingle!
Distraction of the week!
ACTA, SOPA, NDAA, PATRIOT Act, signing statements…
Good. No one should be forced to pray to all-powerful dictators.
Keep in mind that child abuse is also a “tradition” which I think everyone can agree is wrong!
Therefore, just because some religious passage has been a tradition for 49 years doesn’t make that any more right – either!
Good for Jessica. I support her.
For all of you that are whining saying what makes her beliefs and rites more valuable then everyone else’s. Your all damn hypocrites. Whats makes yours worth more then hers? Its ok for your to get your way and have your religious crap plastered all over the place even when it offends people who believe in different things, but as soon as some puts something up that offends you or wants your messages taken down its all of a sudden a big deal. All of you bible humpers need to get over yourself and get a clue that the world doesn’t just revolve around what your think.
FREEEEEEEEDOM: Someone else doing something you don’t like. YOU not being allowed to do something you do like === using the governments money and color of authority.
You either support this ruling or you are the blind ignorant tyrant not understanding the basics of your own freedom.
Just that simple.
Alfie of course is a given, but now show us just how stoopid you can be. Go>>>>>>>
I mean really, who gives a fuck? I can think of many egregious violations of the Constitution. This is not one of them.
Not even close.
Prioritize people. Concentrate on the important ones, come back to this later.
There are 320 Million peeples in the USA. Each on having their own priorities. Why do you want everyone to have the same values/options/experiences and so forth?
Its ALL OF US TOGETHER.
Silly kind of comment to make. Especially when you don’t say what should be taking up EVERYONE’S time?
Very insular. Take to the broad stage.
Another example for government to be out of education.
You should not be paying for something you disagree with, religious or atheist.
If these schools were privately run she could have taken her business elsewhere.
Google “Roger Williams” who was the founder of “The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantation”. He received a charter from England in the early 1600’s to allow a separation of church and state.
Childhood identity crisis. A real atheist doesn’t bother with “small-ball”, not that many real atheists exist.
That being said, the right thing was taking the plaque down and it was rather boneheaded to have put it up in the first place.
On a scale one to ten, the significance of this: 1.5 (Who gives a crap level)
All fear the violence of the Christian Taliban. They kill for their God.
While not a religious person (damned atheist, am I) I gotta say, pish and poop.
The Constitution does not say freedom FROM religion, it simply guarantees the Gov won’t establish a religion. It is the courts which have declared freedom OF religion.
As for the “separation of church and state” well, it doesn’t say that in the Con, either. Thomas Jefferson said that. But he has been quoted by the Supremes and his statement has acquired the force of law. If you actually look at the first amendment (“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”) you could make the case the judge’s ruling was unconstitutional since it prohibits free exercise.
Reading what is available of the prayer in question, it does not seem particularly denominational so it does not appear to be supporting any particular religion.
Now, I don’t trust in god any more than I trust in politicians but to people like Jessica I gotta say: FU.
Gee Whiz Animby. You post as a stooge.
The Constitution, which includes the Bill of Rights which attaches to it, MEANS what the Sup Court says it means over the past 250 years of court rulings.
ABSOLUTELY BY EXPRESS RULING: freedom of religion MEANS freedom FROM religion.
Its basic. Kinda like the circulation of blood. Just that basic. You got some reading to do if you care about the law/freedom/rights. Thankfully, I’m healthy, and don’t give a shit about med-sin.
Not till I’m sick anyway. Ha, ha. But===we are in need of a skimming surface of what our rights are every minute of the day===assuming one thinks with any context at all.
You know context: what is and what isn’t?
Shit from Shinola. Blood Simple.
Yea, verily.
Bobbo – Which Stooge?
In any case, what you should have pointed out is that I was not clear. I was trying to say that the courts have gone way beyond what the Constitution (of which the BoR is part and parcel) requires. In fact, according to the document, since the Fed Gov is denied the privilege of interfering with religion, a strict constructionist could argue this power devolves to the states who could establish a religion. But, SCOTUS screwed that up when they declared that despite simple and straightforward language, the founders actually meant something else. Not that I disagree with that particular ruling. I used to live in Utah and I hear the holy underwear itches.
http://tinyurl.com/88dq4ju is the facebook page supporting her efforts.
“It seemed like it was saying, every time I saw it, You don’t belong here …”
Does anybody belong anywhere?
Atheism is as laughably naive a “mind-set” as Christianity. A text on the wall of an auditorium has no power—as long as you don’t make too big a deal out of it.
“A text on the wall of an auditorium has no power” /// Just as bending your knee with a minute of silence means nothing at all either.
Abstraction to meaningless.====why?
The Truth: often a fly, rarely an elephant==still the truth to be admired and protected from small to large as it is all but one cloth protecting us all from the cold.
Yea, verily.
pollywog: “Atheism is as laughably naive a “mind-set” as Christianity”
Would you care to explain this assertion more fully? It can seem as if you’re saying both are wrong and, since they are diametrically opposed, I wonder what you feel the middle (ie correct) position is.
What I think you meant is that some atheists are just as crazy as some christians. I certainly wouldn’t argue with you there. I might modify it to say that there are sure a lot more crazy christians (and other religious zealots) than there are crazy and zealous atheists.
The atheists don’t account for the deity archetype installed in their skulls prior to birth. They deny that there’s a Jeebus (or some other pesky entity) lurking in their heads. People embrace (or deny) the deity (whatever the heck THAT is) because they have an intrapsychic need to.
The Christians are utterly clueless because they don’t recognize the psychological need behind their “faith” & conflate their projection of deity with reality.
I question this girl’s motives. If she wants to prove some true revolutionary zeal, let’s see if she uses her life to right REAL wrongs in this country, such as poverty, the imbalances produced by unmanaged capitalism, racial inequality, etc. My guess is she ends up becoming completely consumed by this one tilt at the windmill.
My guess is that she is one of a few that actually do something when they see a wrong. If this is her first time, it’s a good start, and she may just get hooked on doing the right thing with other ‘wrongs’ she encounters.
If everyone fixed just one wrong each, you would have more rights.
(bada-bing)
Who’s going to be the judge of whats wrong? Your sloppy face is offending me, if you fix it by smashing it with a hammer, I’ll have a better life.
The law
good for her
Right, celebrate the slippery slope to cultural Chernobyl except were already there.
We’re correcting the problems that began during the 50’s, when “under God” was added to the pledge and “In God We Trust” was placed on our currency.
The slippery slope was allowing Christians to usurp power and claim dominance over the rest of us. We have just recently started fighting back to get America back on the right track.
America is definitely not a Christian nature. A number of the founders of this nation and a number of our first presidents were deists and pagans. The very first president signed the Treaty of Tripoli stating:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
—
It’s unconstitutional. It’s not something a tax-payer supported school should be doing. It’s wrong. Get over it.
that should read:
… of a Christian nature…
I don’t get it. So if there is a Lord of the Rings poster on the wall will she want that to come down too? That shit never happened either…
Lord of the Rings is not a religion.
Bite your tongue.
To be young and naive..
Met plenty of rebellious young women criticizing Religion and talking plenty about its flaws and the damages it can do to society and yet these young ladies eventually grow up and become Bible thumpers themselves.
When she hits the 35yo mark and is still Atheist then I’ll truly believe she is one of us.
Sooo that’s the magic age…35?… Why not 40?… she has been that way since age 10…. what makes you think the next 19 are so important….
Lets see, she stopped believing in God around 10 years of age when she was in elementary school and her mother fell ill for a time and God did not cure her. That’s quite an examination of religion.
Then “a parent who remained anonymous — filed a complaint with the American Civil Liberties Union”. This is ALWAYS the start of a legal process.
Finally, the wise Jessica gives us this pearl, “It’s almost like making a child get a shot even though they don’t want to. It’s for their own good……”.
Just what I need, another asshole to tell me what is for my own good.
This one is guaranteed to be the first female Dimocratic president of the U.S. assuming she does not have a sex change.
Mexti, re: “Just what I need, another asshole to tell me what is for my own good.”
Hmmm, well then, who is the asshole that posted this on the auditorium wall?…
“Our Heavenly Father, grant us each day the desire to do our best, to grow mentally and morally as well as physically, to be kind and helpful.”
Students can’t do their best, unless the “Heavenly Father” grants you that? What a snotty jerk.
Or, from another point of view, if you don’t believe there is a “Heavenly Father”… then the school doesn’t care to include you in their wishes “to do our best, to grow mentally and morally as well as physically, to be kind and helpful.”
I must be very nice facing that every day. Assholes!
Regardless of *why* she stopped believing, I think her actions are valid. There’s no reason that anyone of any belief should feel uncomfortable simply because there happens to be a vocal minority who think they should be able to rope anyone and everyone into their religious meanderings.
How come the reaction to this isn’t…
“Oh it violates the Constitution? And its pretty clear about this? Oh, ok. Well lets move the prayer to a more appropriate place then. Hey, who wants to help?”
Because that’s not the Constitution.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
This is clearly “prohibiting the free exercise”.
I am an atheist and see no Constitutional problem with such a prayer.
To many Anti-Theist label themselves as atheist, and it really gives us a bad name.
As a public educational facility, the school represents the local government. So a public school posting a prayer that specifically promotes a single religion clearly falls under the establishment clause.
and which particular “single religion” is that pray tell?
1. “I question this girl’s motives.” /// Why? The issues raised are easy to understand. Why “motive” as if that matters a shit? My guess is she lives the rest of her life as she chooses to do. Cowed by the religious establishment if they continue their harassment, cynical if there are too many of you in her life. We all find our own way, or not.
2. “good for her” /// Quite right. Each and every pin head of us to be respected if not admired for making any little part of the world a better place through their own efforts. Why not?
3. “Lord of the Rings poster?” /// Does not raise any religious issue. What are you, stupid?
4. “and yet these young ladies eventually grow up and become Bible thumpers themselves.” /// got any stats on that? Conversion rate of atheists as kiddies and religious later on? We ALL know instances of anything you can imagine–so what? Its statistics that tell the truth, tell what is worth keeping as an idea in one’s head as opposed to falsifying a personal experience into a more universal truth===you know: like religion?
5. “…..and God did not cure her. That’s quite an examination of religion.” And he never does which is a glimpse into the reality of the Universe: God doesn’t do shit. And if you don’t do shit, you might as well not exist, if you even do. What more thorough going examination of religion do you think exists?
Sit tight, here it comes: Yea, verily!
>>Does not raise any religious issue. What are you, stupid?
Slow down there turbo. The bible is a load of nonsense. So is the LoTR. I don’t view either of them as being any different. One certainly has a broader and more devoted set of fanboys, sure, but they’re both works of fiction. As a self proclaimed “evangelical anti-theist”, I’m a little surprised you’re so grumpy about this.
wow–thank you. I am grumpy. And drunk. And happy. Being challenged is a happy thing don’t you agree?
Yes—any two things have similarities, and you have spotted a few. BUT any two things also have differences, and on that universality, you have done a prat fall. Pick yourself up and give that a trick. THEN compare the worth and value of the similarities with the worth and value of the difference, contrast in the same manner. Consider whatever proposition is on offer.
Crack a six pack.
Relax.
Until then, everything you think, say and feel is wrong, or only partially correct, or only half considered==all as you will.
Heres a hint: religion is directly addressed in the Bill of Rights. Commerical/artistics endeavors are NOT the same thing.
A direct contradiction to what you posted, which is why I shine a light, to clear your path.
I’m just that kind of GREAT guy!!!!!!
Yea, verily. ((Do not heed my detractors. They are all sober.))
Young Chinese enjoyed these things during the Cultural Revolution. Offensive as they may be, these are icons of history, of other than came before here they need not be interpreted literally but she’s not old enough to understand this.
I’m an atheist and I find stuff like this appalling.
We have freedom of belief in this country. Not freedom from belief.
Having a prayer in a public place doesn’t affect the non-believer.
It makes us look as closed minded as the fundamentalist.
I can see how a 16 year old would find the prayer offensive.
The prayer starts begins with…
“Our Heavenly Father, grant us each day the desire to do our best, to grow mentally and morally as well as physically, to be kind and helpful.”
If you don’t believe there is a “Heavenly Father”… then the school doesn’t care to include you in their wishes “to do our best, to grow mentally and morally as well as physically, to be kind and helpful.”
Imagine facing that sentiment at every event in the auditorium.
If you don’t believe then you know it’s just a fairy tail.
Who care if they want to tell their stories?
How is this really against the Constitution?
The Constitution doesn’t protect you from being offended. I’m offended every day by something. Isn’t that part of free speech? Having the freedom to say stupid stuff?
You don’t believe, buy THEY do, and they have chosen to exclude you in their well wishes for success. The message is from the school, not Jeebus. It’s an insult written on a wall in a public place where she has be.
Your argument is, who needs a constitution…. just buy a helmet and suck it up?
I see many insults on walls. None of which defile me as a person. should we extend this to subway gravity?
Maybe it should start out:
Allah, blessings and peace be upon his name…
Stupid Christians will defend school prayer as long as it’s THEIR school prayer.
Such hypocritical asshats.
Let’s do the parse:
I’m an atheist // yea!!!!
and I find stuff like this appalling. /// Oh my goodness! Forever why?
We have freedom of belief in this country. Not freedom from belief. /// Well, there you are just ABSOLUTELY WRONG and evidencing a failure to read even this poor blog much less anything else in your life on this topic. Freedom OF religion means little without freedom FROM religion. Think it thru if you can. Read the case law if you can’t. Its all been thought thru and chewed for you.
Having a prayer in a public place doesn’t affect the non-believer. /// Of course it does/can. DEMONSTRABLY: it affect the subject girl. What do you do==reject all the evidence against one proposition and then say there is no evidence? Ha, ha. What a dolt. Just because YOU and I don’t care about such small things, doesn’t mean someone barely born and totally without any experience EXCEPT THAT F*CKING NONESENSE ON THE WALL, and all that goes with it, has a different experience than you and me. Can you grog that?
It makes us look as closed minded as the fundamentalist. /// Well, I agree YOU do. But we are not all from the same mold. No one is, if you look closely enough. Do you ever look closely???
Do you? No evidence of that yet.
Surprise us.
If you feel this way, and you are offended by prayer, I have a message for you….
Life is going to be really hard on you.
Buy a helmet.
bobdood==I assume by “you” YOU mean the generic you? Because “I” am not offended by anything except a refusal to learn. And as that is a constant, yes, the crash helmet is on, but I swerve adroitly. If by you YOU mean our kiddie, the subject of this post, then life is not hard or soft.
Its people! And the stupidity they project onto other people. How do you ever learn anything in life but to confront it and gage the response? You post as if this kiddie will have a certain respons and not learn from it? Not everyone is like YOU. How about after this experience she turns inward because the hassle isn’t worth it? Or==she could become STRIDENT because of the same experience? Why do you assume a universal reaction of “Life is going to be really hard on you.” whatever nonsense that even means to various people?
Yeah, you know “life is going to be hard on you if you post nonsense on a blog.” //// Tell us bobdoody–how hard is it?
I’ll bet you could care less, and I assume the same for the kiddie. Whatever. Its her life, her path. What are we to Hecuba, or Hecuba to us?
Know what I mean? Please help, because I don’t. Its just words.
So if your boss greeted you and your coworkers every day with, “I hope everyone has a wonderful day, except Bob Dobbs” you would fine with that?
It doesn’t matter how my co-workers feel about my day.
How do people act so stupid?
Bob, learn to read. That’s twice you missed the subject and point entirely.
Love the “Grog” comment… wonder how many out there got it?
I don’t know. I just did a full google and even Urban Dict and the term you and I love did not appear. I thought it had entered the English language. So totally fitting as used though.
Pity the unread.
BTW–by the way Eideard, I salute you for raising a point of religious observation on this good Sunday. I wonder if a perusal of past postings would show this to be the rule for you? You could make it so if not. If so, we all should recognize and commend you for it.
What better day than Sunday to post an issue to make us all, religious or sane, to appreciate what the subject means to us all?
I can think of no better sermon. Each of us fashioning the ((xxx – whats the word?===I can only think of “lesson” right now, but there is a much more fitting one. Catechism? No, still not what is rattling in my brain. One less beer would have allowed the memory, I’m sure of it!)) lesson to our own druthers.
Hail Eideard. I see the light. Thank you.
Lessons? Imagine that?
Ha, ha.
Seems to me the prayer is less like establishing a religion and more like free exercise thereof.
Andrews–thats a very rational thing to post but you miss the CONTEXT: using government money to establish ((or lamely to exercise but every exercise is an effort or validation of an effort to establish!)) the religion at issue, in this case Jewdeao Christian to the exclusion of all others including atheism. And its done in the CONTEXT of governmental enforced attendance of our precious kiddies: the school.
You fools aren’t aware of the basics of the framework of the issue. “Keep the government out of my Medicare!!!”==hah, ha.
Basics.
Severely lacking.
Animby–whats that latin based phrase from literature than means the point in the play where the protagonist to his horror learns that everything he assumed and lived his life thereon was wrong? Two words I think. pro precipient? WAG==even rejected by wordspell, but most of the good words are.
There must be a “reverse dictionary” with the power of Watson? Let me google:
denouement: nice word, but no.
getting closer–its often found in Greek Tragedy, the para petetio (? sp)……..
Ah, sadly, it will escape me for awhile. The Greeks. What have they not put into writing that remains a mystery/lesson to us all? Must be close to the recognition one is forgetting as much as one knows? Who is worse off? Those who know much, or those who know little?
Ha, ha.
……and the more words we have to think with, the more beautiful our ideas can become:
Peripeteia play /ˌpɛrəpɨˈtaɪ.ə/ (Greek: Περιπέτεια) is a reversal of circumstances, or turning point. The term is primarily used with reference to works of literature. The English form of peripeteia is peripety. Peripety is a sudden reversal dependent on intellect and logic.
This stunt, and every other stunt like it, is not freedom from religion, it’s freedom from being offended. Grow up, offensive material and behaviour is everywhere (even in the government…*gasp*). This girl is an opportunist that saw her chance for 15 minutes in the spotlight, while costing the taxpayers thousands of dollars (if not more) to litigate, then remove the prayer.
Would text books/teachers have been a better use of resources? Let’s not have another atheist cry over the condition of our education system OK?
“Our Heavenly Father”, Bullshit. Maybe that “Father” is not “My” Father. So…, good for her. Religion is designed to control, not help humankind. Those who need it for any reason can do as they care, though not on public space. America was founded on freedom from and of religion. So keep it to yourself and I’ll keep it to myself, that sounds fair.