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KILL HIM !!!!!
Episcopal Priest. Doesn’t count. 😉
Ah shoot – ya beat me to it!
Ok. So can’t we all just get along?
Happy Festivus, for the rest of us.
Wasnt much of an interview, If he doesn’t believe in hell how can he believe in heaven? That would have been a good followup question to ask but it wasn’t.
He is right though, it is all about controlling people. Keep the money flowing in. Keep the hypocrites in control.
I got to see this man (Bishop John Spong) speak here in Michigan…he is an absolutely brilliant speaker and his books have absolutely change my world view on religion.
just another control freak… like he says..
He’s not much of a theist:
Hell is anywhere that God is not: like here on Earth.
Magical wisps of smoke can be twirled any which way you wish.
>> Hell is anywhere that God is not
It’s a problematic theology, though. The church also teaches the doctrine of God’s Omnipresence. So, if hell is where God is not but God is everywhere, can there be a hell?
Hi Greg–well, without knowing the theology at all I can play word games and say that god is everywhere but not “with” you and when he is not with you, that is hell. Or I could say with some more familiarity that god is omnipresent but not everywhere just like he is all knowing but we have free will?
Thats the trouble with pink unicorns–you don’t know how many udders it has.
I think my posting farther down gives the real answer though?
GREG!!!!!!!! Still Religious? Ha, ha. ……why? forever===why? You’re too smart.==Wise up.
BB, hell is a state of mind. You may live in heaven or hell, it is your choice.
Proof, there are many poor people in the world. Many, not all, live a joyous life.
It is all about setting expectations. Set the bar too high, and you will fail to be fulfilled every day!
“You don’t need to be born again, you need to grow up.” /// Boy–thats a keeper.
I’ve always thought that given that god made us the way we are and made the universe in the way it is and in fact creates every action in the universe AND IS ALL LOVING AND MERCIFUL==there really could not be a hell except for Hitler. Or maybe for the Pope. Who more deserves hell? Those who reject God and act on other principles, or those who claim God and pervert his will?
But even when listening to what I agree and even found interesting, I stopped after 2 minutes. Its all BS. Can we just grow up?
Bobbo,
Some people would argue that there can’t be justice unless there is a hell (or similar, by any name).
Something has to be done with the Hitlers and Pol Pots after they die. Having them in Heaven would be injustice.
So they deduce from the just nature of God that something like hell must exist.
It’s like watching a judge in court sentence mass murderers to life in prison. You deduce that prison exists but you don’t have hard proof.
OH GREG!!!! We are all made in gods image and thinking that god allows for evil is just a measure of our limited understanding of his infinite and unlimited mercy. Do you claim to understand the nature of infinity? of god?????? Hitler killed and maimed==all just the material. Hitler never touched the soul of man.
I don’t think you understand with any clarity at all just how wonderful your god is.
REPENT SINNER!!!!!!!!!!
Urp. I think I just made myself a little bit nauseous.
Greg–leave me alone. Its too much fun to get all mystical and stuff.
Well he almost got it right. There is no hell but there also is no heaven or final reward doled out buy a supreme deity. We are evolving for better or worse, not growing up in any sense, and not sinful by any law of nature. In fact we are ‘too smart for our own good’ in many ways. Evolution sorts for survival of the species, and we have intercepted “natural” processes to alter that effect. Defects that would ensure death are kept in the gene pool. We revere ourselves as the children of some god, and if it is human it has to be preserved at any cost. Of course the irrational side of this is that we purposely send our fittest and most survivable specimens to their death in wars to defend the diseased, malformed, weakest and also the insane perpetrators who hide like cowards until it’s all over. We populate the earth with impunity because we have overcome almost all forces that would otherwise balance out numbers with our environment.
The inevitable will happen of course, when we reach the limit of the capacity for Earth to support our life. Somehow, we will die by the billions, by our own hubris, or even our own hand.
There is no god whatsoever in the equation. That is just a distraction to keep us from being rational when it truly counts.
The priest in this video has a good understanding of religion, but still golds on to an imaginary reward system run by something else. There is no something else! The reward will be or survival as a species, the punishment our self destruction.
this guy is in for one hell of a suprise when he dies
This guy must drive a lot of people crazy. I like him.
I’m Episcopalian, too, so maybe my opinion doesn’t count either but…
there is no official doctrine of hell in Christianity. Different church traditions describe it quite differently and there isn’t even agreement that hell is a place.
I think most Christians would agree that something called “Hell” exists but, beyond that, almost anything is acknowledged as possible.
Here’s another: “…and it will make you go blind.” Nor does risking one eye help.
And another: “The pearly gates.” Turns out it’s a fancy auto paint job.
And another: “Jesus loves you.” Jesus doesn’t know you. Missed meeting by that much.
And another: “Keep that sabbath holy.” Apparently one per year works, too. And for some, just a few moments before death does the jobs. Oh, wow.
(What’s that smirk? Is it too soon?)
It’s interesting that an Episcopalian Bishop would say that religion is in the guilt producing business.
This may be generally true but my own Episcopalian church may be an exception. Our church doesn’t emphasize guilt or preach about hell. (I’m sure many Christians would criticize us for that omission.)
I also like the phrase, “People don’t need to be born-again they need to grow up.”
I’d say it depends on the person.
Some people have so messed-up their lives, it’s easiest to just start over. But starting over is a set-back!
You can believe what you want. But that guy is totally right. Almost every religion (with maybe a few possible exceptions) is very guilty of trying to gain power, and/or hold on to it through some sort of false twisted sense of guilt. All too often these religious types prey on the weak and hopeless just so they can promote their own belief system(s). It’s evident throughout history and even in certain parts of the world today! Religious types are way too prone to take whatever power they get and enforce/promote their own belief system(s) on others. But if you ask me that all sounds rather evil.
Now you’re problem, like most religious people, is that you also want to believe in a heaven – particularly since there’s no hell. But that too is just another lie. There may be a life after death since science has proven that energy can neither be created or destroyed. But let’s not try and find out just yet if that’s true or not. It’s what we do here and now that makes any difference. The only choice that any of us have is whether we want our contribution in whatever we do to be a positive one or a negative one.
And as far as messing up one’s life goes and the born again crap, it’s possible to change directions but that takes intellect to realize the need to change and fortitude to go through with it. This kind of thing has nothing to do with religion. You can bullshit yourself into thinking you’re being born again – and many people will. But making a change often requires support or at least a belief in support that whatever change being attempted is the “right” one. That may be a religious experience to go through, but I hardly think it has anything to do with God, Jesus, Mohamad, or even Humpty Dumpty.
But maybe that’s a bit much to swallow. So if you do believe in God then maybe you might want to ask why God gave man the ability to reason (or allowed a woman to take it) if it wasn’t for his own good? And if you give praise to God in everything you do and everything that happens to you then don’t you also hurt God by not taking some of the responsibility?
I swear, if I were more religious I’d say that God gave each of us a brain and the free will to use it and do whatever we please. He also gave us empathy and passion to know that we should never harm another living being unless we wanted the same kind of treatment in return. (It’s called “the golden rule.”)
Amusing that a year or more ago I lit into Greg with an even more scathing sermon from my own pulpit==and none of my animosity towards religion has changed at all.
And yet I feel like defending Greg, by some way of proxy. Greg IS a nice guy and fully capable of defending himself: a little brotherly love jujitsu==very skillful given what he has to work with (The Dogmas of his Faith).
but I’d be a hypocrite to do so. He doesn’t often answer back. Who wouldn’t get tired of the same exchange over and over? Or—is that called prayer?
Happy Holidays–Greg!
If you liked this interview, you might also like Bishop Sprong’s books. He is a fairly prolific writer.
Here is his bibliography:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong#Publications
I think you’ll find that most ministers, pastors, priests that haven’t been too indoctrinated by their own rhetoric probably feel the same way this guy does (the honest ones at least).
He isn’t a Priest in my church. In fact I wouldn’t call him a Xian. Just another progressive wasting space and trying to corrupt the faith.
For those that don’t know that is the original way of writing Christian in Ancient Latin. X=Chris Thus the original way of writing Christmas was Xmas. How the _t_ got in there in English I don’t know.
The Easter Bunny is real too, huh?
Ya we better shut this guy up. He is a threat to our multi-billion $ operation.
Yeah, watch out for those Faith Corrupters… Like priests who diddle young boys, and all those good Caucasian faithful who’ve had no problem forcing the faith on brown people throughout history. It’s like that saying out of Africa about Colonization: “When they arrived, they had the Bible and we had the land. They asked us to close our eyes to pray, and when we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land”. I’m paraphrasing, but you get the point. Onward Christian Soldiers! (Which War Would Jesus Fight?)
I have to chime in here, this fucker is trying to ruin my business.
God bless you Sister Mary, you gentle saint of the drunken dawn.
“Corrupt the faith.” That was a good one. Thanks for the laughs.
I thought Hades was a trash dump outside of Jerusalem that was often on fire. Or used for BBQue’ing heretics.
GregAllen “the just nature of God”
Thank you GA for my first morning laugh. I snorted coffee through my nose.
If scripture shows anything. it is that god is a capricious and petulant child playing dice with human lives. God, be it he, she, it or them, is never just in the sense of fair. Just? Hell, god isn’t even consistent.
Spong can manipulate words to mean different things and has been able to hypnotize people to believe that which is false. He doesn’t know Church history and yet proclaims that he is some Church historian. He’s just some guy with a collar that makes people feel okay with the idea that God may be nice and happy and all knowing and not mean. That’s what people want to hear, and that’s how he continues his fame.
He has never claimed to be a Church historian.
He is a Bishop of the Episcopal Church of the US and has 3 graduate degrees, which I should think is more education in theology than you’ve had!
This page argues (quite well, in fact) that if there were a merciful god, he’d let everyone into heaven because it’s too late for them to turn over a new leaf on earth anyway. Hell is something to keep the Puritan types happy. BTW, the definition of a Puritan is someone who is desperately afraid that someone, somewhere, is having fun.
http://apatheismpodcast.com/2010/04/03/just-let-everyone-into-heaven-who-is-going-to-know/
He is making The Church take credit for something that had been in other religions for years.
The Jews did not even have a hell until The Greeks introduced the concept. They only had Sheol, the grave. You lived and then died and that was pretty much it, unless you were lucky enough to be a prophet that was allowed to ascend to Heaven.
In Christian theology there is a hell of terrible everlasting sorrow. Wailing, gnashing or teeth, etc. BUT that hell and death is made no more in Revelation. So both concepts cease to exist at that point. So there is no eternal suffering. Another mix up with The Divine Comedy.
So hell when it comes to Judaism, Christianity and Islam is a borrow bit of garbage which shows you just how smorgasbord the religion is.
The decent aspect of Christianity, love you neighbour as yourself, is totally lost because of the indecency of man and The Church.
Cursor_
I would like to quote Saint Rodney
” love thy neighbor as you love your self, what am I suppose to jerk him off too”.
This is clear evidence that God not only supports but encourages homosexuality. Why do Christians defy God’s will?
Just another form of control.
Speaking of things Religious–you rarely see them being as stupid as this rant against Obama not thanking God on his Youtube address. Yea–you put religious, Fox News, and anything God together and you got a real idiot fest:
One of the best 5 minutes ever crafted:
http://thewrap.com/tv/article/jon-stewart-rips-fox-news-over-obama-god-less-thanksgiving-claim-video-33133
Spoiling a nationalist holiday by adding (Jesus) religion, something only Fox can do. Wait, a guest at our Thanksgiving table had us all hold hands and bla bla bla, Jesus. Crap, a Fox watcher had to F it up for me.
Great video. Think of the progressive Jews, funny.
I’m sure there is a special place in hell for guys like this that TEACH such bullshit. Seems like I remember a verse or two in the Bible where Jesus himself said something to that effect.
Another wolf in sheep’s clothing. That pretty much describes the world right now, nothing but a facade. Politicians, doctors, bankers, etc.
Priests…
And if you think this is a new state of affairs, I’ve got some prime, grade A, bottled nostalgia to sell you.
Why do so many deny what is known, yet believe in what is not?
As usual… follow the money!