For a change, use this poll and comment space to discuss whether those who can most afford it should be treated the same as the rest of us or should they be treated differently. In other words, ignore the issue of raising taxes vs. cutting spending. That has been discussed to death. This is purely about who pays for what taxes there are. Tied up with this is keeping or eliminating tax loopholes and other things that allow the wealthy to pay less taxes. Discuss!
President Obama will propose that people earning more than $1 million a year pay at least the same tax rate as middle-class earners to help reduce the soaring budget deficit, according to administration officials.
Obama will call the plan the “Buffett rule” after billionaire investor Warren E. Buffett, a supporter of his who recently called the tax system unfair, noting that it lets him pay a lower rate than his secretary does.
The plan would replace the complicated alternative minimum tax, which was enacted decades ago to ensure that the wealthy paid at least some income taxes, according to the officials, who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
An ageing population with their savings wiped out. A large belligerent propertied class exempt from paying tax and fond of waging expensive recreational wars. Last time this happened they invented the guillotine.
Runaway capitalism doesn’t work. The rich need the poor to work for them at low wages. The rich need the poor to have empty lives so that they can sell them fat laced food, pay for crap TV, pay exorbitant fees to watch other people play, and so on. Without the poor the rich would disappear. There has to be some class separation for capitalism to work, but like everything else, the pigs tend to ‘pig out’.
Boneheads. Once you increase the taxes of the rich, prices on everything goes up. Including your Fritos that you inhale during football games.
For those that MIGHT understand this.
Since the 60-70’s there are many laws Against the corps..
Many were installed from PAST problems..
LIKE POLLUTION. Pollution garnered wehn the metal makers DUMPED heavy metals into the aquifers… CANS of plastic and chemical contaminants.. Poisoning of entire cities.
ALL of those corps, got hand slapped. And then JUMPED to other countries to do the SAME THING, with LESS regulations. From mexico to Japan. Japan STOPPED IT.(very few, made in JAPAN anymore).
Then we had the other nations SIGN An agreement on POLLUTION..which only SPREAD the corps out MORE. They couldnt POLLUTE 1 nation to death, they now had to do 2-3 nations.(just so things wouldnt look so bad)
WE DONT NEED PLASTIC for everything. There are wood based goods, that can be used from HEMP(yes wood based) and BAMBOO. and not use OLD WOOD TREES, that take years to grow.
WE dont need 2/3 of the chemicals we have, WE HAD BETTER BEFORE all these Crude oil alternatives. If you compare and add up all the Crude oil products you can figure that they are getting Over $100 per gallon, per barrel.(how much is that pesticide and TAR for your roof, and the roads.)
tHE STOCK EXCHANGE HAS TURNED INTO A video game FOR THE RICH. They PUSHED it to break for the year 2000. AND then it dumped just after. And NOW its tried to correct itself, with OVERBLOWN inflated values. WHO is old enough to remember when corps were SELF SUFFICIENT?? They made money to MAKE themselves better and MORE.
I wont go on. the list is to long.
How about NO tax?
This tax argument is moot because while you are all bickering over (yet another) well scripted non-issue, the people you continue to re-elect, to oversee the windfall of your labors, continue to rip you off BLIND every step of the way.
good little lemmings, the lot of you, i guess.
::sigh::
-s
Fairtax. Illegal aliens get taxed, tourists get taxed, rich get taxed. No loopholes, no politics, no manipulation.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen this proposal for a “fair/flat” tax:
How about a minimum annual fee to live in the U.S., say $ 20,000. If you can’t pay it, you have to leave. If someone pays your fee for you, that person is your Liege Lord and has absolute authority and control over your life and can tell you what to do, where you can live, etc.
Does that sound good? We’re already well on the road toward something like it.
#30 chris said,
“#20
…
That is complete bullshit. Nixon set up the EPA and OSHA. Market fundamentalism came later, and has NEVER worked as advertised”
Chris, you missed the fact that the time window specified by Uncle Patso in Post #1 was “the ’50s and ’60s” as the context to which I replied, not the 70’s when Nixon was President that you pulled out of thin air. (Isn’t Nixon supposed to be one of the Incarnations of Irredeemable Evil that can never be spoken favorably of to the Political Left?)
Besides which, by the 70’s much of that Prosperity by Default of the 50’s and 60’s was GONE because Europe and Japan had had over 20 years to recreate their industrial base by then.
I hear the debate that rich folks should pay more taxes. It is not how much they should pay it is who they hire to make those wages; at one time in was the American laborer who paid the tax and now it is foreign laborer who do not pay our tax. That is the tax they should pay. It is kind of unfair but hell they moved overseas.
Tax consumption not income….
Problem solved.
It’s sad to watch all the opinions flailing around over this issue, while bankers and other financially savvy folks with green thumbs for growing money gardens continue to operate and manipulate the Greed Engine/tax system to their best advantage…while working class folks just go on buying lotto tickets, hoping for a pot o’ gold to magically put them on Easy Street.
It’s happened before, you know. At one time it was called the “Gilded Age”…then the “Roaring Twenties”. Long after those things there was even appeared a “Dot-Com Bubble” too!
Sometimes history plays on like a broken record.
I’ve heard the Wall Street Casino described as being like a drunk on the deck of a ship in a storm, with no railing.
(But then sometimes he might fall into a hatchway, which amazingly slams shut just before a big wave hits…)
To all the morons that say ‘tax the rich more and they will do xyz’.
What degree of self delusion do you practice?
The rich DO NOT PAY TAX.
I think you know this in which case your crime of falsehood is at its greatest, in that you are a renter off the rich, or you are poorly educated.
A point many of you may not KNOW/understand..
HOW much tax do you PAY?
There are 1000 ways you are taxed.
Anything a corp pays, ends up coming out of YOUR POCKET… ANY rich person, with a company/corp…wages come OUT OF YOUR POCKET..
The Main wages you end up paying out of pocket, INCLUDING DIRECT tax on your pay check, ends up being 60-70%… This includes all the taxes you pay to a Store for each employee/boss/supervisor/paper pusher…For the Tax on electrical and all utilities, on interstate trucking…on and on and on..
And in many cases, much of it is written off by many rich persons..as a TAX deduction..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/18/the-top-10-tax-breaks-_n_850534.html
The way you make/save money is finding a way NOT TO SPEND IT.
IF you think, corps dont care, THEY DO.
They know EXACTLY how much you make, how much you are taxed, and HOW MUCH they can take from you. Thats why prices in stores change from 1 place to another..
Thats why goods can sell for a 50% difference and STILL MAKE A PROFIT.
a + b = c
(A.) When half of the people get the idea that they don’t have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and
(B.)when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for,
(C.) that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Soundwash, are you suggesting that we stop buying things unless absolutely necessary? Is that your solution?
Obama won his Hope Election by a large margin with the pitch of ending Bush tax cuts on the 250K and above people, take that to the millionaire level and even more folks should be for it.
If you make 100K you pay 28% but if you make 100K you can find ways to pay less then 15%
sorry that should be if you make 100,000 28% but 22,000 Americans making more than $1 million annually — paid less than 15%
In #1 Uncle Patso said: something eminently sensible.
As someone formerly in the to top 1% of earners in this country I say”YEAH!”
Its better than being lined up against my wall and having to argue with a bullet.
Vietnam was a class war and the poor people won.
They’re still there and the formerly rich Vietmin are serving you pseudo-chinese food in restaurants across the planet.
We should have a wealth tax to supplement or replace the income tax. The intent of progressive policies should be to increase overall wealth, happiness and opportunity while ensuring that existing capital is used efficiently.
Obviously the Rich should pay more. They have more than I do, and as long as I get enough other people together I can take whatever I want from them. As a bonus I will make sure that I don’t have to pay anything at all.
So what if it will kill jobs. As long as I can take someone else’s stuff at gunpoint for myself why should I care about jobs?
In # 10 Howe Ziss said: The rich, who consume more, will pay more.
They might consume more but really, is it that much more?
How much more than any one of us can one person eat?
How much more than any one of us can one person wear?
How much more than any one of us can one person drive?
How much more than any one of us can any person …
They might fly first class but they’re on the same plane. (Ok not the 400 ultra right and the 1,200 extremely rich, they have their own planes and don’t put up with that TSA crap…)
The fallacy is that the spending is proportional to the earning.
The 1,600 rich don’t even come close to spending the Billions (with a “B”) of dollars that the corporations they own earn for them.
I say tax the fuck out of ’em.
Its better than shooting ’em. (And they know it.)
YOU KNOW: at the end of the day we all should recognize there is a difference of opinion regardless of how the question might be framed or premised.
What to do?
Appoint a committee? Refer to a panel of experts? A sub groupd of specially empowered CongressCreeps? National Referendum? Dart board? Chicken Peck? Losts of different ways possible. My answer ball just said: Need more information. Ha, ha. Just how should, I really do mean SHOULD, these types of questions be resolved?
xxxxx Just erased a bunch of crap===all for your benefit.
Yep==I do wonder how our system would work if the true wisdom of the american public ever got even near accurately reflected in our laws rather than all the special and corrupting interests.
Sadly, we’ll never know.
Should those on social welfare programs be required to work or perform services to qualify for such aid? Or should the State even do anything at all?
Pro’s and con’s.
http://statesman.com/news/local/should-homeless-people-work-for-their-keep-1864631.html
Yea! Eat the Rich! (anybody with a job)
In ## 58 bobbo said:Should those on social welfare programs be required to work or perform services to qualify for such aid?
I’d love to work at any kind of job, never mind one I’d actually be qualified for.
But that means that some people in HR would have to die (or at least be reined in,) so that I could stand a chance.
I used to be an IT project manager in Canada and in the ‘States.
Now I’m unemployed, not because I can’t do my job anymore but because HR sees that I can’t DANCE.
I did not suddenly become incompetent at my job or become ignorant of the myriad job requirements, but HR figures that there’s plenty more fish in the sea and I might cause their HMO policies to go up so…
I don’t stand a chance a getting in at places which used to pay me huge bucks before the crash of 2008/2009.
Why?
Because I can’t speak to the people who actually need someone competent to do the work that needs doing.
The coming crash of 2012/2013 is going to be such sweet revenge.
I’ve got enough cash and convertible assets to out last it.
The HR gorgons don’t.
In # 49 jbenson2 said: simplistic shit that proves he doesn’t get it.>/i>
Your math is as flawed as your thinking.
Its not A+B=C.
Its not A.
Its not B.
Its not C.
You’re an idiot.
BAD IDEA, This will just tax the sheeple that give u sheeple jobs, like DOH. The math is real easy on this one.
BUffet is soo full of it, if he wanted to help the irs has a donate button on the website.
msbpodcast==you are winding yourself up pretty tight here. Over personalizing what is a societal predicament.
My father once told me that “Life is a Rat Race–everyone out to eat your cheese.” You probably agree with that. He also said “Son–learn to run the maze faster than the other rats===but its still a Rat Race.” He said about 3 other things in his entire life, but thats a different thread.
From what you say, you are overly focused on what you aren’t getting that you think you want rather than focusing on all the good stuff you admit you got. Thats is a miss balance of recognition, life’s order. Lots of people worked so much harder than you and have nothing to show for it. Why doesn’t that make you happy?
Much the same thing happened to me a while back. I had a choice: bust my hump to stay in the rat race, or stay back and enjoy the cheese I had collected===and spend a good amount of time learning what wine and crackers went best with my cheese.
So much more enjoyable.
Found the screw that held my mouse together. Nothing really “dirty” about it–just two microswitches that cant be cleaned. I shimmed the plastic plate they sit on and that has helped a bit but not a fix. More shims to follow. I thought these microswitches were good for a milllion hits. Surely I haven’t been on this blog that much?
YMMV–but everyone should enjoy the trip. Silly if you don’t.
Yea, verily.
How much would the tax rates for millionaires have to be to overcome the deficit, not even considering the insurmountable debt we are already in? (Hint – it is over 100%)
The majority of tax breaks that rich people get are due to tax-free investments such as municipal bonds. These investments give lower tax rates, but are just high enough to outweight the lack of tax. Essentially, the government is incentivizing people to invest in government or government run-entities. If this incentive is removed, they must pay higher interest rates to those investing in them, which means higher fees for other tax payers. If you actually look at why rich people might in many cases pay a lower effective tax rate than a middle class, it is because they are putting there money somewhere that the government sees as helpful to society. In other words, they are really not paying a lower amount of their money to the government.
This is going to do nothing, it is simply a political move with no real positive consequences, as every other thing Obama does. Obama is not very good at solving problems, but he is good at playing politics.
On the face of it the wealthy are already paying most of the taxes with almost half the population paying no Fed gov taxes.
On the other hand the Congress and WH have sold so many exemptions that a much simpler tax might be more equitable.
There is absolutely no doubt that Obama plans to bleed small business owners again few of whom donate to him/buy him off.
The down side is that nothing Obama has ever proposed has turned out to be anything other than a gold plated turd when it comes to stimulating business. He only knows how to do a limited number of things, tax, spend, borrow, and regulate. Since none of these stimulate businesses to create jobs he’s been a 100% failure.
There isn’t a shred of evidence that he has a clue how to create jobs in the private sector and a fair amount that if he had done nothing we would now be coming out of the recession.