For a change, use this poll and comment space to discuss whether those who can most afford it should be treated the same as the rest of us or should they be treated differently. In other words, ignore the issue of raising taxes vs. cutting spending. That has been discussed to death. This is purely about who pays for what taxes there are. Tied up with this is keeping or eliminating tax loopholes and other things that allow the wealthy to pay less taxes. Discuss!
President Obama will propose that people earning more than $1 million a year pay at least the same tax rate as middle-class earners to help reduce the soaring budget deficit, according to administration officials.
Obama will call the plan the “Buffett rule” after billionaire investor Warren E. Buffett, a supporter of his who recently called the tax system unfair, noting that it lets him pay a lower rate than his secretary does.
The plan would replace the complicated alternative minimum tax, which was enacted decades ago to ensure that the wealthy paid at least some income taxes, according to the officials, who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
Mike–I don’ know. Like you, all I hear is the pundits talk about it but left and right both agree so it must be true?
USA doesn NOT TAX profits earned overseas. It another exemption/break/dodge/payoff. It should stop immediately. I don’t know if that is the tax “credit” or whatever they are talking about or if there is more involved.
Its all part of the pandering to the desires of the rich not to pay their fair share and sadly only a part of what has restructed the labor market in the USA.
Worse times are still coming. We are past the tipping point on US job development as well and this current unemployment rate is only the first few inches of the rising tide.
Structural Unemployment.
VOTE ALL “NO NEW TAXES” RETARDS OUT OF OFFICE.
#128 – “The system really should be set up so that people can’t get that wealthy to begin with” Now, that is a damned interesting statement. What would be my incentive to work if I can’t better *my* standard of living?
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I did have a great idea this morning while taking my second dump. Our current system is really limiting our revenue collection ability. Why are we restricting our tax collection to Americans? We should be collecting income taxes from citizens of other countries as well. We’re just letting them skate by and hurting ourselves unnecessarily in the process.
#133–PA==one of my favorites would be that corporate officers could only be paid up to a multiple of the average non-corporate wage. That would incentivize CEO’s to make the business successful and the employees richer rather than only an opportunity to line his own pockets.
Tax capital gains like ordinary income.
Tax individual stock transers at some nominal amount.
There ya go. Three very simple things that would magically spread the income around negating the need to steal from the rich.
I’m thinking a simple “no deductions/exemptions” tax code could really be helpful as well. Details to be modeled.
Our system right now has been totally corrupted by the SuperRich. Any change would be for the better===except further tax cuts for the job creators.
VOTE ALL “NO NEW TAXES” RETARDS OUT OF OFFICE.
US does tax profits earned overseas. That is why companies set up foreign entities to keep the money there.
So? You want to follow the paper trail instead of the money?????
Typical shill.
http://usdebtclock.org/
#5 “The only sensible thing to do is a flat tax”
#6 “good reason for a flat tax”
#10 “Consumption tax. That’s it. No other tax.”
#11 “A true flat tax, no deductions for kids, mortgages”
#21 “They should raise taxes on the poor.”
#23 “So, absolutely NO to any tax system based on how much one “can” pay.”
#33 “Producers don’t pay taxes; consumers do.”
#38 “Once you increase the taxes of the rich, prices on everything goes up”
#40 “How about NO tax?”
#45 “Tax consumption not income….”
#64 “The math is real easy on this one.”
#81 “if you took a random sampling of the educated population”
#103 “anyone who isnt’ a moron should understand this”
Where does this idea come from that a straight percentage is fair? If you have to couch your argument as something ‘only a child’ or ‘only an idiot’ wouldn’t get it looks like you’re not very confident in what you’re saying.
After all, who are you going to explain it to if not an idiot or child?
It seems obvious to ME that lowering taxes on the poor is more likely to produce more consumption, because propensity to spend each dollar earned is greater when you have fewer dollars. Similarly, propensity to save each marginal dollar is greater when you have already covered every logical and illogical need.
I think the operational goal of a tax system is to get the most cash possible without the taxes themselves decreasing economic activity.
Taxing people into the poorhouse isn’t a good idea, because then they can’t buy anything. Since we are in a demand destruction feedback loop that will only make the problem worse.
Conversely, if big corps and the top income quartile are holding record cash they look like awfully inviting targets.
If the rentier class is going to take their marbles and go home why shouldn’t the masses take their lunch money? These folks are supposedly the engine of growth. If they idle the engine and decide to take a decade off the equation has got to change, no?
Hey Chris–nice review. You almost expressly say the tax breaks/inducements given to the job creators hasn’t been used to create jobs====so take the tax breaks back!!! And I’d say add a penalty for 8 years.
Teach those pricks not to take advantage of the Public just because they get their shill into office. Make them dread the payback that will come later.
Course, to get pay back, you need a Pres with a backbone.
VOTE ALL “NO NEW TAXES” DOGMATIC SHILLS OUT OF OFFICE.
#139
I don’t look at in a punitive way. If somebody does something unethical with billions of dollars we ought to just send the cops instead. Really try and find the problem.
This is more of adding an ante into a slow poker game. If you recognize that people are just sitting on their cash give them an incentive to put more into play.
The situation prior to 2008 was different, traditional boom-bust cycles in specific markets. Now it’s a world wide investor revulsion.
Since it’s as much psychological as anything else, we need either big money or big government to get some action going. It’s possible to incentivize big money back in the game through tax policy.
That’s the essential choice I see right now. Government can do the work directly and present you with the bill OR government creates a penalty for capital that wants to ride the bench.
Chris–I’ll quibble just a bit. To call the structural reshaping of world commerce as much psychological as anything else in its consequences is to miss what is reshaping the world. When the world evens out—those on the bottom do come up, but those on the top==do come down=======ESPECIALLY if those on top think its mostly psychological. It ain’t.
I know you know what I mean.
There are obviously big changes, but that is always the case. The psychology part is the idea of risk. Before 2008 there was NO risk and today the world is going to end. Or at least that’s what I’ve been told.
The rebalancing of our relationship with China is going to be disruptive, but so was the rise of China. We exchanged jobs for the ability to get cheaper shit at Wal-mart. People got hurt then too.
Long term we’re actually good. Better demographics than China, Europe, or Japan. If we can choose to relinquish our overbearing military role, rather than having it taken from us like the British did we can extremely competitive long term.*
I mostly see greater problems in other places around the world. The crucial problem the US faces is the GOP. They really remind me of the European monarchies on the eve of WWI.
It’s so easy to break things, so it must be similarly easy to put them back together… too bad it doesn’t work like that.
*Of course Keynes was right, in the long run we’re all dead anyway.
If you want the job creators to get capital moving, show them how hiring more people makes them *more* money. You don’t hire just for the hell of it, you hire because you need the new hires to help you make more money.
Chris–you lost me. Or did you get lost while I stayed on the straight and narrow.
Is the state of USA’s economy today and the challenges it faces mostly a matter of psychology or something more basic and transactional?
If mostly psychological, will the economy revive if everyone on subsistence wages, unemployment, and those with no money at all just go out and buy whatever? Or does “Psychology” mean something else to you?
I think Pres Amabo has it about right: jobs are created on demand for goods and services.
Just saw a report on the building of the New Oakland Bay Bridge. Seems the parts were manufactured in China because it cost half as much, half a billion less, than the same parts would cost if made in the USA, and they could be delivered more timely. I doubt thats entirely true, but its probably somewhat true? I keep hearing the USA leads the world in efficient new steel production. Maybe that is a recent advance like in the last 3 weeks?
Nothing but lies. THAT is very psychological. Could almost lull one asleep.
China’s currency should be higher, which will make their products cost more. With less of a price advantage a lot of manufacturing will move back to the US. There’s a shitload of infrastructure that needs to be in place to handle container ships. Other places that want to take the over China’s role may need to pony up a couple of billion for major port facilities. That is just to buy into the big game. You’ve still got to produce shit after that.
I think oil is artificially high, but even if it goes down everybody has noticed that there is huge variability there.
Europe is screwed, or at least the Euro is. France and Germany appear to have done a 180′ on whether they even want to hold the Greeks and others in. Before they absolutely couldn’t leave and now they’d better get out. It’s too big a mess not to hit France, and maybe Germany too.
The Middle East would appear to be the natural source for cheap plastic shit, lots of oil and low wage labor available. It just isn’t going to happen then.
Japan is screwed in a ton of ways. They appear to be making better moves about their demographic bubble, but their position is a lot worse.
Brazil has an absolutely massive property bubble coming up. That, combined with wealth disparity even worse than ours makes Brazil a risk.
Russia is facing maybe the worst demographics, and they might decide not to give back investment money. Got a problem with that.
We’re going back to our Cold War role as being marginally less bad than the next guy. We are decently convincing in the part.