The FBI is teaching its counterterrorism agents that “main stream” [sic] American Muslims are likely to be terrorist sympathizers; that the Prophet Mohammed was a “cult leader”; and that the Islamic practice of giving charity is no more than a “funding mechanism for combat.”
At the Bureau’s training ground in Quantico, Virginia, agents are shown a chart contending that the more “devout” a Muslim, the more likely he is to be “violent.” Those destructive tendencies cannot be reversed, an FBI instructional presentation adds: “Any war against non-believers is justified” under Muslim law; a “moderating process cannot happen if the Koran continues to be regarded as the unalterable word of Allah.”
[…]
The FBI isn’t just treading on thin legal ice by portraying ordinary, observant Americans as terrorists-in-waiting, former counterterrorism agents say. It’s also playing into al-Qaida’s hands.Focusing on the religious behavior of American citizens instead of proven indicators of criminal activity like stockpiling guns or using shady financing makes it more likely that the FBI will miss the real warning signs of terrorism. And depicting Islam as inseparable from political violence is exactly the narrative al-Qaida spins — as is the related idea that America and Islam are necessarily in conflict. That’s why FBI whistleblowers provided Danger Room with these materials.
The FBI needs to meet more Muslims.
For starters, only a teeny fraction of them are violent radicals. Thousands among a billion.
I have known and befriended lots of devout Muslims. I’ve shared homes with them. Worked with them. Hired them, etc.
In the Middle East, barbers still use straight razors and every month, for years, I allowed a Muslim guy to put a straight razor right up against my carotid artery. If all Muslims felt it was their religious duty to kill infidels, wouldn’t one have done me in?
Funny…
Yesterday on the BBC I was reading a story about how the people of Niger feel about being the unwitting hosts of the Pro-Kadaffhi. One statement the really struck me was a quote from a cab driver.
“… We prefer they not be here. But they are muslims like us. So we have to take them in.”
I’ve seen that logic before. No matter what crime a muslim commits, they feel that all other muslims have to give them protection and shelter. That is insane.
#32–GregAllen==I believe what you say==or even if its not true, its an excellent counter. You are a smart guy………
What do you say to the rejoinder that atheists were killed too?
What do you say to the rejoinder that anyone who did not swear allegiance to the Communist Party was killed?
What do you say to the rejoinder that the “Red Faction” of the Communist Party who were atheists were killing and being killed by the “White Faction” of the Communist Party who were atheists? And by atheists, I mean they didn’t go bowling on Friday Nights because nothing took priority over attending Communist Party Meetings.
When you say your relatives were killed in order to Purge Russia of religious folk, while true, it is only a surface reality. Below that truth is a much more corrupt truth. They will killed for political purity purposes and any excuse would do. If you were caught praying, that was a good enough reason and that is what you were told. If you were caught bowling, that was a good enough reason and that is what you were told.
Don’t like bowling? OK. How about going to the Opera or Reading a book? If you were caught doing those things, good enough reasons to kill you and that is what you were told.
True, and yet not true at the very same time.
Interesting? Or not? And that tells another wholly different truth.
Yea, verily.
#34
That’s the trouble with muslims they are blood thirsty savages that barbarically punish crimes by their own people while covering up anything done by them.
Especially because they stole it form some Jewish carpenter that said something about “what you do to the least of my children…”
#33–GregAllen==you sure are one dumb motherf**ker!
You say: “If all Muslims felt it was their religious duty to kill infidels, wouldn’t one have done me in?” //// Well of course and using the POWER of cgp’s deductive LOGIC, as your throat was not cut, then all Muslims do not feel it was their religious duty to kill you. This assumes they had opportunity and knew you were an infidel which I will assume. but isn’t the counter, and the subject of this thread, that “too many” Muslims would be quite happy to cut your throat? What do your life experiences tell us about THAT?
All religions/thoughts/ideologies have their lazy adherents. Those that go along for their convenience rather than live the faith they profess. Yes, as I posted, most people regardless of their attestations really only care about themselves. “Homo Hubris” we might say. The sin of pride. Imagine being proud of thinking for yourself Greg Allen?? Its a sin. Are you saved???
Ha, ha. But more importantly—the weight of any group is going to be controlled, lead, moved by the active cohort who “really” believes. What is the core of the totally committed Muslims? A religion of peace or of one world religion? What gets their camel running?
And regardless of the truth, how much risk of being wrong am I willing to take? Yes, I’ll commit that sin and think for myself.
Yea,verily.
bobbo,
Are you seriously claiming that the communists didn’t have state atheism as a specific goal? And they were brutally eliminationist about it?
Religion wasn’t just one item on a random list.
I have no general problem with atheists, BTW.
It’s the atheist supremacists that give me the creeps. Especially the ones who claim that society would be much better without people like me in it.
Surely, you can understand that.
bobbo in #37,
I couldn’t quite follow your logic in #37 but you seem really blinded by your anti-religious bigotry.
Yes, _too_ many Muslims are dangerous … in the same way that too many people are dangerous.
But does Islam really make them categorically more deadly than other faiths or atheists?
My personal experience say “no.” (and thus my personal story)
If you do a rough body count, it also say “no.”
I’ve tried, BTW, it’s not easy but when you add up WWI, WWII, Stalinist purges, Pol Pot, etc, it is almost impossible to imagine that collective number of deaths being beat by the Muslims. Not that Muslims are innocent of mass killing… there was the Armenian genocide, India’s Partition, etc.
I’m just not sure on what factual basis one can claim that Muslims are more violent than all other people groups.
Greg–sorry I can’t copy and paste. A glitch in my current system.
I would like to parse what you honestly provide:
Yes, the commies had State Atheism as their goal but not to establish atheism but rather to establish the State. Nothing else was to be superior to the State. That necessitates atheism as the absence of all other competing theories, not the establishment of no other theory as a religion. Simple linguistics the religious types like to confuse. Like to confuse so much I don’t think they even recognize nothing is not something as they so enjoy doing. The bowling analogy is quite fitting. Its how language is limiting your thinking/appreciation of what the superior value does to all others.
2. The list wasn’t random. I SAID==it was to establish Communism as the ONLY priority. Religion and bowling were not randomly on the list. Religion was on the list because it interfered.
3. You don’t need to have a problem do you. Others do it for you. Others including god. Or do you think god does not punish atheists?
4. Society would be better if any and all “different thinking groups” were done away with. Its all about homogeneity, not the absolute value of one over the other. Contra–would the world be a better place if everyone accepted science as the best way to understand the natural world?….HAH!!! My, my. That is a strong contra.
5. I don’t know why you should have creeps unless atheists were actively seeking you out, making your lifestyle illegal, interfering with how you live your life. Are atheists doing that to you Greg Allen??? The religious certainly bother everyone–even other religious types.
6. You can’t follow my “logic,” — the simplest of assumptions and deductions? How do you then take my logic and extend it even farther than I did? Logically, that seems inconsistent. I assume you are making a rhetorical point rather than a logical/truthful/accurate one?
7. Bigotry: or evangelical?
8. More deadly than other faiths or atheists? Well that is the question. And I don’t think in relevant part it is about the past but rather it is about tomorrow. As a bigot, I see no reason to put the safety of my kiddies on the hope that Muslims will not be faithful to the clear words of their own commandments. American Indians had this same conversation about the infidels they were facing 400 years ago. Pilgrims were very friendly when they were out numbered and starving to death. But the thing about history is……….it develops. Doesn’t repeat, it rhymes.
9. Ask the jews. I agree, when the Iranians say they are going to wipe Israel from the map, they aren’t “being” violent. And after the Jews…..who’s next? Is having your throat cut when commercially involved in a shave your measure of violence? What about not being able to show your face/ankle in public if you are a woman and you get whipped for that. Is that any form of violence? Not being educated? Not existing as a homosexual? How do you rank that as violence? Do you add it up on your scale?
But I’m not sure either. Just a gut hunch.
It’s nice to know that at least one government agency understands the insidiousness of the threat.
Addressing several issues: Lefties in Germany are bashing the Pope for bashing the Muslims.
Yes–homogeneity does provide for stability.
Just another factor when looking at violence in Muslim countries. In Saudi Arabia, its against the law to build a christian church. I wonder how other faiths are welcomed in that COUNTRY by LAW?
How much peace and non-violence in Arab-Muslim countries is the rule because all/most of non conforming people/ideas have already been stamped out?
I had a work mate who was a Catholic Arab from Egypt-an expert in cotton. He left because of the bigotry against him from other Arab Muslims. As you say Greg–very nice guy. I would let him shave me any day of the week.
http://de/opinion/20110913-37561.html
Awesome repartee in this thread.
It adds to the conundrum of why most of you will join the sheeple masses in culpability for re-electing Rs and Ds in the next election and pat yourselves on the back for doing it.
There is no rational explanation.
The issue still remains in all cases of the theist and the atheist, that they are still humans.
And humans have a very defined history in using any excuse possible to kill one another off if they cannot control each other.
Religion or the lack thereof is merely an excuse.
Cursor_
FBI Cooking up a HOLY WAR !!!
#43–P/M==THAT again? A FAIL on dealing with reality. Yes, the subject of this thread is National Security as it relates to the contest between Freedom of Religion that is protected and maintained by our Government ((the First and many say only legitimate function of the Frederal Government)) and an external threat from a religion that expressly states there should only be one Religion on earth and governments/freedom is not required beyond their religious tenants.
Gary says no Muslim has ever cut his throat so we should believe they don’t believe their religion. I’m called a bigot because I say it is an open question that reasonable people can differ on but that certainly presents a risk.
You say we should vote for Ralph Nader or Perot or I suppose now for Ron Paul?
You may or may not be right ((Yes, I’d give you odds)) but you post like Alfie turning every issue into an expression of your own mania. More minus than plus.
Like your fanciful candidates, you are more minus than plus. Silly Hooman.
17, Bobbo,
Whenever a radical Christian, Jew, etc does something bad, members of the religion are quick to denounce the act because it goes against their religious norm.
Whenever a Muslim does something bad, little to no one says ANYTHING to denounce the perpetrator. They are TOLERANT of the evil deed while the other groups are not. That is the norm for “mainstream” Muslims. There is a big distinction. Tolerance of the evil deeds fosters more acts.
20, Bobbo,
Don’t be so hard on yourself.
They’re rebuked by nearly all of those in the particular religion. Not so in Islam. You can barely find a handful of Muslim leaders rebuking evil acts committed by their own members. You’re turning a blind eye.
21, Drive By Poster,
Minor oversights for Bobbo. 🙂
25, Bobbo,
So are religions flawed for having high standards? When someone falls off the wagon is this demonstrative that the religion is bad?
What religious law do you oppose that puts its followers’ souls at risk for failure to obey? Are the laws generally bad laws or do you oppose them simply because of the source of the laws?
32, GregAllen,
You think a history lesson is going to make Bobbo understand history or Communism? Ha! He’s too partisan.
33, GregAllen,
Three quarters or more of that billion are tolerant or indifferent about the violent acts of those thousands and don’t bother to condemn those thousands as not being representative of their religion or beliefs.
40, Bobbo,
HAVE State Atheism.
It still does. This is why people cannot openly worship with non-State produced holy books without getting arrested.
42, Bobbo,
You pay a tax for not being Muslim and you can get arrested for proselytizing anything other than Islam.
44, Pedro,
It was meant to be rhetorical. 😉
Uncle Dave,
Read the Koran yourself. Don’t let anyone tell you what it says.
Understand how Mohammad instructed the faithful to handle us non-believers.
And then understand that the FBI is right.
Hey Guyver–well done. Pretty too. If it weren’t Friday, I’d respond in detail but to one point: any religious tenant that goes to “the religion” rather than getting along with others is, very simply is, evil. Take the Bible. Are there 10 commandments or 283 or some other number if you include lessons from parables and all the rest? I will not stone a person for working on the Sabbath. Knowing that, I can’t say everything in the Bible is worthy and after saying that, each issue has to stand on its own merits.
Same with the Koran. But the link above to how to interpret the Koran is VERY instructive===assuming its true? Ha, ha.
Yes–when does a cohort of a group exercise so much power that it doesn’t matter what the other 1 Billion think? Does it matter what all the good Iranian Muslims think and would prefer to do when their support empowers the cohort who will Nuke Israel?
Does it matter how many GregAllens there are when the cohort is empowered to deny stem cell research in America?
Understanding group dynamics. What controls? The herd or the Judas?
Good post.
All this stuff in the lead article, sounds a bit familiar. Like when the Irish Catholics were actively bombing London. And getting funds from Catholics in other countries, including the US. But I don’t remember hearing the FBI training their agents to think of all Catholics as potential violent terrorists. I’m sure Rome’s “lobby” in congress has something to say against that policy. And what about all the German Americans, during WW2? Only the Asians, living in the USA, got locked up in internment camps. The feds trusted the others not to be Nazi agents.
All of this being done today, is political. It’s the right-wing “conservatives”, appealing to the major Non-Islamic religions. By showing that they’ll pick on the Islamic secs in America. So they’ll get the votes of the others. What’s next, witch hunts?
If you are a devote follower of mohammed you will devotedly fallow the koran..
The Qur’an commands Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims and apostates
(Surah 5:33; 9:5, 29).
mohammad was a terrorist.. the koran is warrior code..