“I think Iceland can be a test tube to try out progressive things because we are a small country and we don’t have a massive lobby for tobacco,” said Thorarinn Gudnason, a cardiologist at Landspitali University Hospital in Rejkyavik. ”We are taking care of people who are dying of this disease in their 40s and we’re fed up with it.”
Iceland’s smoking rate is already one of the lowest in Europe. Just 15 per cent of the population lights up compared to an average of 31 per cent across the continent. However, the story among young Icelanders is more worrisome: 20 per cent of children and teenagers smoke. Dr. Gudnason hopes the new plan will dramatically reduce that figure and cut overall smoking rates to less than 10 per cent…
Tobacco and nicotine would be classified as addictive drugs and second-hand smoke would be treated and controlled like other carcinogenic substances. Lighting up in public places such as parks and in cars with children would be outlawed.
Eventually, smokers who are unable to kick the habit through treatment and various addiction programs — or those smokers who simply refuse to quit — may get a prescription for tobacco from their doctors. Once cigarettes become available only through physicians, the price will go down again — as it would be unfair to tax those unable to quit supporters of the plan say.
“Tobacco is very addictive and we would recognize them as addicts,” said Ms. Fridleifsdottir.
Bravo! It would force a lot of people with lazy personal ethics to confront a personal problem. They can still maintain their addiction if they wish.
Saving their lives is a side effect.
I just saw my typo! He. He.
Smoking _cessation_ efforts clearly fall within the mandate of promoting the general welfare of the people.
GREG!!!! Hitting me in the head with the dictionary. OOOhhhh, the irony (on me)! Excellent. Let’s see:
Fascism: Oppressive, dictatorial control/// also: …….a very broad definition of fascism, and includes most movements that aim for total social renewal based on the national community while also pushing for a rejection of liberal democratic institutions.
Its about “central control” over individual decisions. What else are we talking about when trying to have a single policy over individual health/consumption issues?
Its fascism for our own good–plain and simple.
Do you think its only about drafting people to invade Ethiopia? Well, ok……but……
Watch your parents and your wife die from lung cancer in your arms and then tell us all what you think of cigarettes.
I’m not trying to scare anyone out of their right to smoke but, believe me you don’t want to die from lung cancer.
I wish I had never seen them so sick.
GregAllen,
Governments around the country have been raising their tobacco taxes in recent years because they realized that drug addicts are a gold mine for making up general budget shortfalls, not just for treatment programs. Clearly smoking cessation is a ways down the priority list.
I’d rather smokers just kill themselves, and I’ll even buy them a carton.
#33–Sea Lawyer==I agree that free choices should have consequences. So you and I agree that if/when/when isn’t it/ down to monetary limits on healthcare spending, we both agree no cancer care for people who smoked.
what about innocent charity workers who never smoked at all. Or how about people who gave up their lungs in coal mines. Should they also not get the care they need because they can’t afford it….. or what?
Can you state a near universal rule that can be used or is it just a gut recognition?
#42, bobbo,
I will be as clear as I possibly can, which will also betray how heartless I am:
I do not care in any way about the long-term welfare of people who consciously engage in self-destructive recreational activities.
Any other people you may mention who do not fall into that category, but may be affected by similar ailments, have my great concern and sympathy.
Really…At least you fucks are consistent. You just cannot be happy unless you are championing people having their money taken away from them and being told what to do. Oh, and the ignorant canard with libertarians and Somalia. That one never gets old.
Those of you trying to determine the medical costs of smoking are leaving something out of your calculations. That is that we all eventually die of something. In America, at least, we typically use a whole lot of medical care in the last year of life, be it at 25, 55, or 95. The last time I recall seeing figures, on average, more than half of our medical expenses over our lifetimes occur in the last year or two of life.
So, while treating smokers might be expensive, it really isn’t any more so that it is for anyone else, on average. Except, that the smoker dies younger, without collecting as much Social Security, and they pay a lot of taxes over their lifetimes.
Some years ago, I recall seeing a pretty comprehensive study on this which came to the conclusion that smokers make for a small net gain for government over non-smokers, all other things being equal.
And then there’s the breath mint and air freshener and disposable lighter business. Heck, since I quit, I use far less glass cleaner, paper towels, Kleenex….
#43–SL==why are you so belligerent and aggressive when we agree? THAT and the lack of additional detail really doesn’t make any sense.
#44–nutball==please state how your liebertardian philosophy does not create a Somalia wherever fully implemented? Hmmmm? If what you “really” want to argue about is whether or not a specific tax/regulation is appropriate, then that is what you discuss. When you go jump in the stupid hole to “taxation is slavery” position, you fail to express yourself with any credibility at all.
So, what you are saying is that it doesn’t physically hurt to be as stupid as you are. Is that about it?
Everything that is bad for you should be free, as in “Free Government Cheese”
If you take money out of the equation, the sexiness dies, and the market shrinks to it’s lowest possible size. Money, and the need to make it, drives businesses to sell this crap.
Whether the business is a Global Corporation or the dealer on the corner!
Give it all away, and the problem goes “away”.
No one wants to be seen smoking the Government “Cheese”!
What–actually what you say is quite true. Take the money out and for profit slime balls are not motivated to get you hooked. Just reason no 42 why legalizing drugs makes simple common sense once you get past the mindless morality connection.
Whats better–a society where drugs are illegal with x million addicts and y crime, or a society where drugs are legal with x-a million addicts and y-b crime?
What “is” morality anyway? Stating the value or evaluating the consequences?
We all know the fix is in but its time to switch monkeys.
#48–nutball==yep–that Somalia. Now answer the question.
Heh, heh. Details most likely not to follow.
I already did, child. No be quiet…grown ups are trying to have a conversation.
Dvorak, seriously…how much $$ to get a bozo filter on the site?
Ready–and tobacco industry is still putting out shills saying there is no proof that tobacco leads to cancer. Not as often as they used to, but that is still their position even as they were caught manipulating the nicotine levels “for taste.”
The same mindset is busy now FUDding our free market with the No Global Warming failure of proof scam.
The same mindset that say paying for government is slavery and lack of regulation is freedom and that as long as you don’t directly recommend anarchy, Somalia is irrelevant.
“They work hard for the money…..taking advantage of the poor, the young, the black and the stupid.” Although I think orientals seems to like the weed as well. Ha, ha. I love being racists when there’s a libitards worth of truth to it.
#55–Pedo==who here is using a tautology? I’d like to see that, verbiage not withstanding.
A tautology is a tautology is a tautology.
#58–foobar==glad you are here as Pedo doesn’t seem to want to identify who/what he is talking about. What a silly boy he is. But you say that a tautology is a lot like location huh?
My, that is important. What else besides tautology, location, and Pedo blowing his donkey always appear in three’s?
ICELAND is cold, there is less available potent sunlight leading to a possible vitamin d deficiency.
while smoking isn’t good for you, it can be said that a lack of vitamin D will cause all manner of health issues.
perspective people. if there was an equal amount of people with smoking related diseases and a 15% smoking rate near the equator i would be more likely to believe this exaggerated bs.
diesel fumes from your local highway, fluoride in your water, and the plastic in your food containers is more of a worry to me.
if you are optimally healthy you body will be able to heal itself, lack of vitamin D is not going to allow your body to fix itself.
funny how anecdotal evidence (because the establishment wouldn’t allow a study like this to become common knowledge)pot smokers have generally a lower incidence of lung cancer, funny that.. google “run from the cure” for more info
Speter==It looks like you have something to say but you aren’t making any sense. Are you saying people are dying in Iceland in their 40’s because of Vit D deficiency? If not, how is that relevant except that smoking would just be another major assault on your pathetic white wasting away herring fed bodies?
The reason you have white albino like skin is so that if you spend any time at all outside, you will get the Vit D you need. Don’t you ever go outside? Take a Vitamin Pill? Eat a Fish?
Everyone is so hostile here. I don’t get it. Just another posting about one society trying to help its members. We all should be so lucky.
Bobbo, Saying something and saying nothing at the same time is a wonderful privilege of people with thinking duality.
my main point is the whole “fear fear fear, dont do this don’t do that.” society we live in is upside down in many cases.
Certain risks are outlawed and banned and shunned while greater risks are ignored or promoted.
Vitamin D in point relating to disease being blamed ‘solely’ on smoking (while fish may contain vit D??? they also contain mercury etc these days, not sure if we should trust supplements from big corps who farm the fish – however i do believe artic Krill is a good source of omega 3 which is also benificial) BUT sunlight also contains bio photons.
sunlight should be the preferred method. this country where this is happening should look at environmental factors as well as smoking related health issues and see if there is any correlation between distance from the equator and increased cancer rates.
blaming one thing entirely is easy to do, but have a look at smoking rates and illness rates around the equator/asia (and with a non western diet)and i think there will be some surprises…
also smoking is blamed at the “cause” when often it is simply a trigger in a person predisposed or not quite at optimal health.
i smoke (but only tobacco rolled not cigarettes.)
do i have the right to ask food delivery trucks to stop bringing food or oil or shoes because the diesel fumes are posioneing everyone near the highway?
is this issue even discussed? or because it affects the majority it can be left alone..
same issue different kettle or hypocrites.
and IF passive smoke was “as bad as they say” we would have no one over the age of about 60 as most people that age would have been exposed during their youth and already died.
and what about people spreading ecoli by shaking someones hand? oooh the horror, lets ban that too… (low immunity here we come)
it still makes sense that smoking around kids should be avoided, but in an adult environment we make our own choices. there are designated smoking areas and in non smokers don’t like it they can avoid them.
nanny state to police sate in 60 seconds here we come…
Why do we care? Smokers die sooner and spend less money on health care than non-smokers. Yes, that’s true.
Another reason why iceland may have a disproportionate amount of smoking related illness is possibly due to that fact there is not much to do there except freeze, fight the bankers, roast some cod?? or puff the cold away with a schmoke and a pancake???
as i said, a “disproportionate” amount compared to the rest.
when something is “disproportionate” and used in a study or to create laws – it tells me the science is flawed – especially if being used in a general context.
Roddy6667, yea but they smell bad. Worse than a hippy.
After reading all that, I feel like going from 2 packs a day to 3..
I’m in flavour country!
What is irritating to me is that all these monkeys that want to drink, smoke, do drugs, overeat and all the other indulgences of life scream for the right to do it.
They believe they are ONLY hurting themselves and no one else and should be allowed to do as they please so long as it harms none.
And yet they KNOW in the back of their minds that all these things do harm their selves, and thus harm their families through stress and less funds for doing good things. They harm the medical system that has to put them in hospitals and care for them when they get sick from years of doing it. And raise the cost of visiting hospitals for all because they clog up the works.
But to these people they deny they are the problem. Not being able to kill themselves and putting their own desires above others is the problem.
Selfish, good for nothing monkeys that drag the whole of life down with their filthy habits.
No man is an island. They know that that. They just don’t give a fuck about anything but themselves.
Cursor_
GregAllen, your numbers are off. You claim 30 billion per year in Medicaid costs, and saying the numbers are a net negative. But you forgot the detail you started with. Having pe9ople die early saves lots of money in Medicare and Social Security benefits. Maybe $300,000- $1 millio n dollars saved for each person who dies early.
“No man is an island. They know that that. They just don’t give a fuck about anything but themselves.”
No, we give a fuck about a lot of things. We just don’t give a fuck about you. You could kindly stop doing all of us the “favor” of caring so much about us to micro-manage every minute of our lives because you think we’re costing you something.
I’ve seen the aftermath of all that expensive “treatment” for things like cancer. It’s worse than death. If I get it, self inflicted or otherwise, I won’t cost you a gaddamned dime. But you would probably make it a point to have treatment forced on me just so you could have a reason to bitch because I didn’t live the way you wanted me to.
I think the “Death” branding does not adequately capture the danger inherent in smoking. We need packets of actual diseased organs attached to cartons.
#69–Notatall==nice capturing of an important idea: “No, we give a fuck about a lot of things. We just don’t give a fuck about you.” //// and quite right you are. Why/how cursor got on the High Nanny State Horse is beyond me. Uncharacteristic for him to be so.
Then you intrigingly say: “I’ve seen the aftermath of all that expensive “treatment” for things like cancer. It’s worse than death. If I get it, self inflicted or otherwise, I won’t cost you a gaddamned dime.” /// Well, sure it will but that cost, hopefully minimal, will be part of the social contract==what we all owe/receive to one another by virtue of being in the same society. Shake and bake, hurdy gurdy, helter skelter, all bobbing around, brownian motion, all to our own purposeful effect. So how do you plan on minimizing your cost of dying from cancer? Slow and painful, takes years?