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Actually, the cartoon does catch the essence of the dispute/positions.
Rare. Too often, its thought “clever” to equate the contesting sides. Here, its all one sided.
Read with any depth at all.
Both signs should read “wreck it”
brm–so you think no matter what is done the economy will act the same way?
Silly.
At current levels of spending and borrowing the US is going to make Greece look like an economic success story in a few years. 40 cents of every dollar spent is borrowed and much of our national income is spent on paying the interest on our loans. Since NP, HR, and BO have no intentions of slowing much less reducing the spending the one thing we can count on is they aren’t going to make anything better.
While the progressives may be correct that the Repubs are a bunch of incompetents you have to compare that to what went on when the leaders of the Dems had full control of the legislature and the executive branches of government. All I saw was the wildest most physically irresponsible behavior I can imagine even if the government had been run by the inmates of an insane asylum.
#3 bobbo:
So you think there are exactly two policies, of which one must be correct?
>> deowll said, on July 1st, 2011 at 7:54 am
>> At current levels of spending and borrowing the US is going to make Greece look like an economic success story in a few years
This is the mess Bush and the conservatives left for Obama.
I heard someone analogize it to having a fire in your attic and a flood in your basement.
(The fire is the recession and the flood is the debt, in case you missed that part.)
What are your priorities to fix the crisis?
>> deowll said, on July 1st, 2011 at 7:54 am
>> the Dems had full control of the legislature and the executive branches of government.
No. We never did, thanks to GOP obstructionism and a handful of blue dogs.
#5–brm==of course not. but that misreading of a cartoon is more accurate than equating “opposite” ways of addressing the economy.
Dems = tax and spend. Maybe wrong but can be corrected. Goal IS to make it work.
Pukes = deficit and spend. Starve the Beast the intentional goal of which is create a “crises” to cut social spending. aka: a Goal that doesn’t “work.”
Effective government is NOT about protecting the Super Rich to the detriment of the bottom 99%==its about the maximal good for the maximal numbers as best as that can be arranged, and always corrected along the way.
Government is NOT about being captured by an ideological minority.
Sad, because we are in the late cycle of proof of concept that needs no proof at all.
The solution is simple really. Just write a program that emulates the economy of the United States and calculates the effects from any scenario. It should be a lot easier than writing the software for accurately calculating the climate of the earth going forward 25, 50, 100 years. In fact, by comparison it should be a cinch, since you have extremely accurate actual and complete data records from day one. You should be able to calculate all possible outcomes for any plans put forward by any “side”. Just pick the best one.
>> deowll said, on July 1st, 2011 at 7:54 am
>> the Dems had full control of the legislature and the executive branches of government.
>> GregAllen responded, “No. We never did, thanks to GOP obstructionism and a handful of blue dogs.”
And that is pure bullshit, GA. In spite of everything conservatives could do, Obama still got his $800 billion stimulus, his $400 billion TARP, his $50 billion GM bailout, his $3 billion “cash-for-clunkers”, and his trillion dollar Obamacare. The only damn thing he didn’t get was his “Cap-and-Trade,” but even then his EPA is doing an end-run to kill the coal industry.
Skeptic–I’ve often thought that. Fascinating to ponder just how accurate it might get–never perfect, always a range, chaos always at work.
But we already “know” the direction of things–in the main. Too many people don’t really care what the effect will be, they care about the “principle” involved.
Imagine that.
3, Bobbo,
Presidents have little effect on our economy except for tax policies (which have a delayed effect).
It Ain’t the Economy, Stupid: http://tinyurl.com/4q9dzuw
Great picture and so very true.
It’s all about power and fuck everything else. The Puke’s are determined to sabotage any recovery because they know their sorry asses will lose for sure.
Bobbo, I agree that some very good scenarios might emerge, as you say never perfect (but overall compromises that would lead to a healthy successful economy)… but what if government had to be reduced by some large number (37.81260873452251773%) or some other distasteful sacrifice involving the rich and powerful… I can easily predict that the whole project would be immediately mothballed.
Would it be practical /doable if some highly intelligent and industrious non-partisan programmers wrote the program as an open source project, (like Firefox?) and let it evolve publicly?
Hmmm.
What the Republicans are trying to do should be considered treason. Plain and simple! Nice cartoon btw, I hope I will be able look back on it someday and laugh instead of cry.
#12–McGuyver==yes, Presidents or anything else don’t have much effect beyond what they effect. I can’t disagree with you there. You got me good on that one.
However, the subject is about what Dems vs Pukes in congress can do. Fix it or wreck it. Or do you think the tax policies, laws, debt ceilings, good faith and credit, social safety net, have no effect on the economy?
You always pick Friday to jerk off in public. why is that?
Skeptic–does raise the issue of what artificial intelligence may create in a few decades? Even with its potential for errors, at least it would not have a psychiatric desire for self destruction.
tick .. tick .. tick
It’s been pointed out that President Bush added over $4 trillion to the debt during his 8 year term.
So President Obama can use the “Bush did it” claim. But President Obama has recently made speeches claiming how important it is to cut the deficit, despite having added more than $1 trillion to the debt in the last 2 years.
Now we’re having a pointless argument about the “debt ceiling” as if that’s all that’s stopping us from moving forward.
You can demand tax increases on the rich, and at the same time give them a tax credit for buying a Tesla car.
It’s all re-arranging deck-chairs on the Titanic. This ship is going down.
Ah Yea–you cherry pick 3 articles of faith that agree with your Tea Party baggery and challenge liberals to agree?
Why don’t I just cherry pick 3 articles of faith on the other side and do the same?
Would a bigger stimulus package have worked? or none at all?==no one really knows. Economics is like that.
It does look like to me the “stimulus” was WAY too much pork spending and tax cuts and in reality a “too small” JOBS STIMULUS.
This is all what decades of bad policy results in: a decline that is not recovered from. Every bankrupt entity claims all they needed was more money. In this case: Pukes claiming all we need is more tax cuts.
Ah Yea–just your first link is laughable. Bush did hand off an economy in crises to Obaman. How many months would 4-5 various responses have cost and how long would they have taken to recover the economy to what condition?=======NO ONE KNOWS.
All else is BS.
Big Lie No 1==the rich create JOBS.
Big Lie No 2==tax cuts create JOBS.
Both lies to transfer wealth to the Super Rich.
Big Lie No 3==We have a spending crises, not a taxing crises. Just more wealth transfer to the Super Rich.
We all should only be arguing at the edges, about degrees. Arguing if we can tax cut our way to prosperity shows we are on the road to disaster. Will there be enough pieces in the wreckage to rebuild America? I don’t think so. Too many “basic pieces” are missing: aka–the jobs have gone overseas.
USA will fall to number 4-5-6 in relevant State Powers. Something will change–probably in the energy/power area of scientific technologies, and perhaps we will rise back up to vie with China. Maybe. Or not.
Always a tough measure: do contesting nations win on their strengths, or win by comparisons only by relative weaknesses?
We’ll all see it—before August 2.
Like I said, “Liberals won’t be able to understand this because they are Morons, Idiots, and Imbeciles.”
See #21 above.
Where are your links?
Who here “thinks” the answer to our current economy is more tax cuts coupled with spending cuts verses tax hikes coupled with spending cuts?
A or B?
Details don’t matter–is it “possible” in any manner whatsoever under which scenario?
I say it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a viable society under Plan A, yet the Pukes are holding firm for this result.
ONLY Plan B provides for a possible recovery. Details/length of time are totally debatable but there is a formula for a balanced budget: Revenue – Expenses = zero.
Now, if you think grandma eating cat food while the top 1% of society own 50% of our nations wealth, then we have a basic disagreement over what a “solution” means.
And just for Ah Yea:
http://businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2008/db20080512_629202.htm
Video: Dumbo’s calling Pukes out for INTENTIONALLY KILLING JOBS and trying to TANK THE ECONOMY. Politics over Country.
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/senate-democrats-call-out-republicans-sabo
All you have to do is look. Just LOOK!!!
Just as Bush did to Obaman==wreck the economy then blame the Dumbos. Why does this work?
There’s no video on it but MSNBC just showed a video of Brit Hume commenting that if the debt ceiling is not raised, then OBAMA will have to choose how to spend the revenue that comes into the government.
WHAT OBAMA SHOULD DO: is announce RIGHT NOW that all foreign debt obligations will be met and that withholds will only be made on domestic programs until the debt ceiling is lifted.
What kind of domestic programs? How about the FDA for instance–no USDA inspected meat, no meat sales. How would the red State Republicans like that===and for how long.
GROW A PAIR OBAMAN and teabag the Pukes. They are asking for it, you should provide it==in spades so to speak.
Yea, verily. Get it on.
Here’s an interesting article.
http://tinyurl.com/4xr495x
My favorite line:
Limit supplemental insurance coverage so that seniors can’t purchase Medigap policies to cover all of their out of pocket expenses. Studies show this change could reduce over-utilization without harming health.
I guess it’s true that when you don’t have pay for something, it is over utilized.
So . . . does that mean Obamacare will result is over-utilization of existing facilities?
Or does that mean Obamacare would have to ultimately ration the medical care to prevent over-utilization?
Yes–LL==its well known that the deductibles and co=pays of the current system do little to nothing to limit the double digit increase in medical costs to the USA economy regardless of wether it is private pay or MediCare.
Whats needed is not our current plan but rather single payer with strong peer review best practices. With all medical care paid for, defensive medicine will no longer be needed and will no longer be a driver of the costs.
The worst possible medical system in the world is what we had pre-Obama. Several steps better is Obamacare. The best will be the changes yet to come as we move to single payer and strong utilization review to include death panels.
Healthcare like any other service desired by man is rationed. It has always been rationed. The only question is how transparent it will be and who is doing it for what motives.
Change is difficult when nay sayers, free marketeers, and liebertards muddy the waters, but slow painful progress is being made.
Now where is my Morphine Cocktail?
16, Bobbo,
I was defending Obama in this particular case (one of the few times I will).
Never said they didn’t. The question is how significant is the impact and how long will it take before we observe the consequences (good or bad).
The problem here is liberals (people who rarely ever take responsibility for their own actions or lack thereof) want to blame this whole budget problem on the other party when it’s quite clear the Democrats failed to pass any such budget in the previous session of congress (when they were obligated to do so).
It’s not like the Republicans could have stopped the Democrats last session… the only things Democrats were worried about was voter wrath. So the Democrats committed dereliction of their duties to hopefully survive the 2010 elections.
But now the Republicans are the evil ones for not passing a budget the Democrats want (but could have passed last year)? Ha!
I suppose you prefer to perform mental masturbation the other six days of the week?
23, Bobbo,
So you “think” that when someone is in financial trouble, they NEED to have their credit limit increased to get themselves out of trouble? LOL.
So living within one’s means is IMPOSSIBLE? Easy to say when you spend other people’s money. Viability is completely subjective.
Penis envy won’t solve your problems.
Have a happy 4th of July (and try not to demand that your neighbor give you any of his fireworks because you feel entitled to it).
McGuyver, bringing his inadequate penis to every discussion==of course we need to live within a balanced budget. The issue about the debt ceiling is all about making the transition and how best to do it.
Its tricky to change horses midstream, but trying to make a 4 Trillion Dollar leap with no warm up is impossible. Lets go at it reasonably?
Can’t do that though with Pukes filibustering any simple majority and then claiming the Dumbo’s are in charge. Who would do that—MCGUYVER? Only dishonest shills.
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You know, I am looking forward to our local fireworks display. 30 minutes put on free at the local shopping mall parking lot. Well mannered crowds, wonderful show.
Delightful the sense of community that develops when people come together in community events.
I hope yours is as enjoyable as ours.
The US needs a massive write down. Companies, government, personal and even institutions like schools and churches are all over valued.
Here’s an interesting little problem: it’s getting much harder to get Indian IT professionals from places like Bangalore and Pune to work in the US. Even with the extra pay they don’t want to take the drop in their quality of life that a middle class Indian now enjoys.