See how peer pressure can force you to deny your true self.
Support the Blog — Buy This Book!
For Kindle and with free ePub version. Only $9.49 Great reading.
Here is what Gary Shapiro CEO of the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) said: Dvorak's writing sings with insight and clarity. Whether or not you agree with John's views, he will get you thinking and is never boring. These essays are worth the read!
Put this ad on your blog!
Syndicate
Subscribe to Main Blog feed here:
Subscribe to Comments too (below):
Junk Email Filter
>> noname said, on June 26th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
>> Also I would like to see if there are differences between various Asian groups vs. various European groups and various American States (Texas vs. New York).
I’ve had the privilege of living in several parts of Asia and I my observation is that “group think” is a UNIVERSAL human tendency which manifests differently, depending on culture.
Asia has a lot of “top down” group think models from the Arabian Sheiks to the Japanese CEOs telling people what they are to think.
The central Asian “jirga” system has hints of democracy in it. While the people may not get to elect their tribal leaders, the jirga, itself, is ideally a consensus.
Without going into too many details — I would say that the tendency to follow the group is universally human. But HOW that is done, can be very cultural.
GregAllen–I love you man. Not in that old biblical christian way, not in that I can’t quit you way, but…..but…..whats that third way again?
noname–I read the seed within you. You have a wonderful journey of self discovery possible if you are willing to use your intellect to analyse what you say and what you think. As GregAllen counsels: be subversive===against yourself. Your primal self, the self you developed without thinking. Now just take what you have and think.
I also hate the equivocal, but that is not the same as the ambiguous or the not understood or the challenge. You may be trapped in a habit of using your intellect to keep yourself ignorant rather than to plumb the depths of that which you don’t understand or even that which you intially disagree with or HORRORS even that which is wrong yet still has a nugget to offer your own growth
Its “logically impossible” to compare and contrast, to see the similarities and the difference at the same time yet “ignore the differences” as you complain. Criticizing the very premise of my critique by quoting it back to me is completely inapposite. Amusing mental contortion there–an easy first subject for your self actualization.
To find a new context, to see ourselves as others do, to open our third eye.
Sublime.
# 38 bobbo, in Repose,
“”Its “logically impossible” to compare and contrast, to see the similarities and the difference at the same time yet “ignore the differences”””
Is it really impossible? People (American’s now more then ever) do it all the time. It’s call Cognitive dissonance. You know, that uncomfortable feeling “bobbo, in Repose” gets from holding conflicting ideas simultaneously!
I am sure this gives a strong motivational drive to reduce these conflicts by changing attitudes, beliefs, and actions by becoming a sycophant, QED; conforming or bending to the powers that be in your current live environment or peer group.
Basically “bobbo, in Repose” your self delusional Taoist journey of self discovery and mastery and your advice thereof is annoying.
In that regards, you and Mr Circular Reasoning, # 35 pedro are soul-mates.
To amplify, if a tree falls and I am not there to see or hear it; it still falls. For me truth existence is transcendent, for all ages and not a personal extrapolation of myself or my navel. I don’t claim myself to be the basis of reality as you seem to be doing and promoting.
Basically stop conforming to the B.S. and start living a real live!! It’s ok to have a different opinion and perception; just take great care when declaring it or enforcing it with power as a universal truth. That is where the rub is. America would be a much better place if it’s people, workplaces and such weren’t such trend drones!
#39–nosense: your word today is: “focus.” This thread is about the influence of peer pressure to conform with your introduced subset of how/whether or not people in different cultures/locations have a different tendency to such pressure. Developing the Third Eye is completely relevant, but more a subject for tomorrow.
Why would you want more information/study about people 7000 miles away when you live within your own skin? Don’t you find that an interesting question? A diversion on your path to enlightenment? Oops! Let’s get back to todays issue: focus.
The posted video is about YOU! Its about me. Its about us. Its about being human. The differences between the Chinese and the Americans will ironically be based upon their humanity–how it is bent and shaped by society==but always of the same stuff, our humanity, humanity reaching for the stars, our better natures.
You have a better nature don’t you no name? You’ll find it by taking these studies and applying them to yourself, your future actions, thinking, emotions. Shame to lose that opportunity by wondering what inconsequential differences with strangers might produce?
Don’t you agree?
# 37 GregAllen,
I agree with you in principle. I am experiencing this first hand now.
I am currently working in a very Asian company and finding it very ideologically conformist and resistant to questioning. I guess I am noticing strong differences, because I was lured away from one of their American competitor companies, “I” company who has the world standard for business and quality practices; hence why they hired and have payed me soo well. In fact this Asian company is now being sued by another American company, “A” company for their “slavishly” coping of their product.
In fact I was told early on by my coworkers who have worked at this Asian company many years that they routinely gain competitive advantage by copying and stealing from competitor their ideas. Because of my experience they routinely ask me questions about how competitor “I” company or “T” company does business.
However; this unquestioning ideological conformity, insisting on working long hours instead of working smartly, the career pigeon holding and a very insular career environment where publishing and attending conferences is not promoted has prompted me to accept an offer from an another American company, where the Asian company gets all their R&D work done.
So # 37 GregAllen, yes all people and places (all places really) have standard to conform too. Sorry, I just don’t appreciate the Asian model.
# 40 bobbo, in Repose,
“You’ll find (my better nature) by taking these studies and applying them to yourself, your future actions, thinking, emotions. Shame to lose that opportunity by wondering what inconsequential differences with strangers might produce?
Don’t you agree?”
No I do not agree!
Oh, my goodness. I’m flattered. I was just going to force the conversation longer.
I am struck by your experience with the Chinese firm.
You can learn a lot more than just that you don’t like the conformist/lack of innovation/IP Theft. Use the force Luke. Who you choose to be your employer affects your own sense of self worth. All humans are the same in this regard.
Thats the open door. Walk thru it.
# 43 bobbo, in Repose,
Wrong conclusion there and Obi-Wan Kenobi you are not! You might be a practicing Mazatec shaman.
You know yer a practicing Mazatec shaman when at the ticket counter your asked if you have an I.D. And you say, ‘Bout What?’
I never said my current employer was a Chinese firm. In fact, they are not a Chinese firm.
How is that relevant?
# 45 bobbo, in Repose,
The facts I gave where not sufficient to support your conclusion. Are false conclusions relevant, as you ask?
Maybe not in your B.S. journey of self actualization and consciousness-self-awareness and expansion as they can be just ignored.
You may not agree, but I hold you can’t build truths with falsehoods.
However, I will agree with you on one aspect of your promotion of Introspection; Introspection is our epistemological access to the self and parallels our epistemological access to the external world (since it is the same brain doing both).
The post “Video – Conformity” is nothing more then Epistemology.
noname–not quite so. How we think about the external world does not change it. But how we think about ourselves does offer the opportunity of changing ourselves. Thats why the process is so worthwhile.
Sometimes change to ourselves will come unwillingly as a shock. So much better for it to be the planned result of a process. A process often initiated by studies/recognitions of this very thread: conformity thru peer pressure. Nothing “wrong” per se. Just something to think about, compare and contrast, make choices, then remain focused.
yea, verily.
Ok, # 48 bobbo, in Repose, I will agree with your intent, however I don’t agree with “How we think about the external world does not change it”.
How we think about the external world does indeed change it! For example, I landscape my yard base on what I modeled it to be in my brain.
That same single focused brain can initiate change in both our internal and external worlds non-exclusively. The change initiated in our brains, in either case, can be for better or for worst; for others and yourself, all non-exclusively.
no name–did the notion flit thru your brain you were grasping at straws? Thinking about your landscaping design ((a wonderful thing to do btw)) changes nothing. Only what you DO physically in the real world changes the real world. Not prayer. Not wishin’ & hopin’.
Course, if we accept your extruded version of what makes change in the real world, wouldn’t it apply with even more force to your mental view of things? Yes, it would. All the more reason to look after your own rose garden.
there is nothing new in this video,it’s old
school,psychology of mass,after seeing how Hitler was successful with his propaganda western world
just copy it and carried on and on to this day
# 50 bobbo, in Repose
“Thinking about your landscaping design ((a wonderful thing to do btw)) changes nothing”
Is this really true for you? I guess I can be grateful that I myself can translate my intent into movement and actions for an intended purpose. I am very sorry this is not true for you.
It’s really sad to hear your physical movements are involuntary and non-purposeful. Do you have amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) like Stephen Hawking?
I am amazed, you had me fooled. I thought it was you typing your comments. But, how is typing possible when, as you say, # 50 bobbo has a brain that “changes nothing”.
Maybe it’s your dog doing the typing? That would explain your illogical soliloquy. It is good to see at least your dog can translate your intent into paw movements and actions for your meager purpose.
Did you do a Vulcan mind-meld with your dog to enable this? Isn’t a dog-man Vulcan mind-meld dangerous, as this my cause you to become dog-brained?
Pls continue to entertain me.
Nah, you’re just being silly. You got a one way ratchet on your brain. Once said, you can’t back up and take the other path.
Catch you on the flip flop.
#6/12 – progerssives/liberals believe in the herd while conservatives believe in individuals. Hmmmm.
As far as the rest goes, I agree with everyone here who disagress with everone else.
# 55 President Amabo,
“I agree with everyone here who disagrees with everyone else.”
I disagree with you; therefore you agree with me.
#31
We all have some Alfi in us but the one element that we have that Alfi does not is that one of our core beliefs is constant change. To an extent, Alfie is a result of that group think of which the OP is discussing. He simply wasn’t equipped with the tools he needed to see through it and honestly, it takes practice to truly embrace how science finds truth. Even the best of us can be duped.
The scientific method is one of the best solutions for determining whether what we think we believe is actually true. The hardest task to face is the realization that what we think we knew isn’t true. However, it is orders of magnitude more difficult if change isn’t one of the core beliefs as is the case with Alfi.
As the saying goes, “It’s not what you know that gets you in trouble; it’s what you know that ain’t so”.
#32
Ah, such witty repartee. What’s on tap for your next performance: a yo mama joke? Please entertain us with all that quick wit that a 10th grade education has to offer.
#36
Subversion works MUCH better. Don’t take on the group’s “alpha male” directly.
I seem to remember one of my geekier friends saying something to the extent of, “It’s better to be Palapatine than Vadar.” Who would you rather be: Luca Brasi or the Godfather?
#57–Thomas==let me quibble and say that “science is the ONLY way to find out what is really true.” Thats one of my core beliefs that actually makes my life “better.”
Your definitions may vary.